Zelensky Pushes Back Against Trump’s “Disinformation” on Ukraine War

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, frank83628 said:

But Zelenskys term ended a years ago, the lawl states that the president of the Parliament should have taken over.

 

Consider yourself educated further.

There is no President of Parliament in Ukraine. 

[frank83628]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

You seem to imply that the aggressor should be rewarded with territories that they took illegally and by force and to bow to Putin's demand for Ukraine not joining Nato. Nato is the only entity that can stop Putin;s imperial ambition. WW2 is a reminder to all how imperislistic ambition can lead to world war. 

Imperialistic ambition??. you lot really are living in the cold war mindset, not surprising after 6 decades of media propaganda about the evil boogyman round the corner.

Why continue to provoke the war after the main guys are in peace negotiations.... just because you believed the media lies about Russia losing. You should have realised ages ago that Russia has what it set out to have.

[Summerinsiam]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You seem to imply that the aggressor should be rewarded with territories that they took illegally and by force and to bow to Putin's demand for Ukraine not joining Nato. Nato is the only entity that can stop Putin;s imperial ambition. WW2 is a reminder to all how imperislistic ambition can lead to world war. 

You appear to have missed the point about dealing with the reality of the situation and realpolitik. Face facts: Ukraine is never going to join NATO, but will have to rely on alternative security guarantees. This has been well known for a long time in diplomatic circles and to all serious observers, but has never before been articulated so bluntly. Its not a question of bowing to Putin's demands, but prudently avoiding any direct confrontation between two nulclear armed forces.

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Imperialistic ambition??. you lot really are living in the cold war mindset, not surprising after 6 decades of media propaganda about the evil boogyman round the corner.

Why continue to provoke the war after the main guys are in peace negotiations.... just because you believed the media lies about Russia losing. You should have realised ages ago that Russia has what it set out to have.

Putin yearn for an empire as a sense of entitlement. He talk about reclaiming historical Russia land just recent;y in his interview with Tucker. You really living in a Putin's bubble. All want the invasion (not war) to end but not in Putin/Trump's terms. 

[scottiejohn]

57 minutes ago, KireB said:

What eastern European countries will go back to their Russian umbrella without war? This might be the dumbest comment I 've read in a long time. Thanks for making me laugh.

 

I hope you are an English teacher, and do not teach geography, history or social.

Well said!

[frank83628]

18 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

There is no President of Parliament in Ukraine. 

Sorry, chairman, 

[frank83628]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Putin yearn for an empire as a sense of entitlement. He talk about reclaiming historical Russia land just recent;y in his interview with Tucker. You really living in a Putin's bubble. All want the invasion (not war) to end but not in Putin/Trump's terms. 

So only Zelenskys terms will be accepted 

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, Summerinsiam said:

You appear to have missed the point about dealing with the reality of the situation and realpolitik. Face facts: Ukraine is never going to join NATO, but will have to rely on alternative security guarantees. This has been well known for a long time in diplomatic circles and to all serious observers, but has never before been articulated so bluntly. Its not a question of bowing to Putin's demands, but prudently avoiding any direct confrontation between two nulclear armed forces.

Bowing to Putin's demands is inviting and rewarding him to invade other countries bordering Russia. 

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

So only Zelenskys terms will be accepted 

Zeelnsky has not stated his terms. We will have to wait for a tripartite meeting between Zelensky, Putin and Trump. Also have Europe and Nato represented. Ukraine need security assurance and need not be Nato. 

[Summerinsiam]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Bowing to Putin's demands is inviting and rewarding him to invade other countries bordering Russia. 

Nonsense. It appears that you have fallen for the false narrative so beloved by Zelensky. Indeed, according to him Putin is amassing 150,000 troops for just this purpose. An invasion is imminent. Never mind the reality: its miltary is fully engaged in Ukraine and its economy allegedly faltering. There is zero hard evidence to support this claim. You have contradicted yourself. If NATO is such a successful deterrent why would Putin invade neighboring countries like Poland and the Baltic Republics? Even Putin knows this is suicide, due to NATO's vast numerical and technological superiority. Nothing but scaremongering and alarmism.

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, Summerinsiam said:

While everyone knows that Trump's words should not be taken at face value, it must have come as a shock to Zelensky to be talked about like that. After all, he has spent the last three years being lauded like a superstar and flying around the world, while pushing the same old tired false narrative: that it is an existentialist crisis and not a territorial dispute with its roots in the cold war and the break-up of the former Soviet Union. I am not a Trump fan, but in this instance I think he may be right. You have to talk to your enemy no matter how unpalatable that may be. The current approach is clearly not working: sanctions and isolating Russia have not had the desired effect and on the battlefield the Ukrainians are losing. Indeed, they are currently facing a recruitment crisis, with thousands deserting and unwilling to fight. For them and their European sponsors, it is an outrage that someone has told the truth and shattered the illusion that has been crafted in the last three years. Hegseth was engaging in realpolitik and only saying out loud what most Europeans already knew: that it is not realistic for Ukraine to regain its lost territory or join NATO. It may be just that it does, but sadly we live in the real world. Just because Macron and Starmer keep saying it will happen doesn't make it so. A new approach and a shift in direction and momentum have clearly being needed for some time. What is the alternative? Continue to escalate a war that cannot be won with the ever- present danger that it may eventually engulf the whole world?

+1

[dinsdale]

59 minutes ago, KireB said:

No, you said that eastern European countries are willing to join a new kind of Warschaw Pact (Russian umbrella).
Don't tell porkies.

 

Nope. I simply said this is more likely than a war in Europe. Quite a straightforward and easy to comprehend comment. Doesn't mean either will happen. Simply there is a greater liklihood of one as opposed to the other.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Summerinsiam said:

Nonsense. It appears that you have fallen for the false narrative so beloved by Zelensky. Indeed, according to him Putin is amassing 150,000 troops for just this purpose. An invasion is imminent. Never mind the reality: its miltary is fully engaged in Ukraine and its economy allegedly faltering. There is zero hard evidence to support this claim. You have contradicted yourself. If NATO is such a successful deterrent why would Putin invade neighboring countries like Poland and the Baltic Republics? Even Putin knows this is suicide, due to NATO's vast numerical and technological superiority. Nothing but scaremongering and alarmism.

Putin knows nothing of the sort. He was told by his security apparatus Ukraine would be a matter of a week's conflict. He is probably being fed misinformation by his army people too.

 

He considers Europe to be weak and disunited. Like all dictators, his subordinates tell him what they think he wants to hear.

 

 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria. All displaying pro-Russian attitudes. As I say you just spout whatever thought bubble comes into your head.

 

The chances of that happening in the foreseeable future are virtually zero. It is inconceivable that a country could align economically or militarily with Russia while at the same time remaining in the EU.

 

None of these countries will leave the EU as they have too much to lose. Not only are they are all net beneficiaries of EU funds, but leaving the Single Market and Customs Union would be an act of economic masochism.

 

Mind you, never say never. The UK decided on masochism.

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Zelensky will not be baited by Trump to hold election. There is never any good intention by Trump. An election is just not possible during an invasion. Soldiers will have to leave the front lines to vote and refugees have to return. If Zelensky win, Trump and Putin will undermine the result and further sow division and confusion. If he lose, Ukraine step into a realm of unknown outcome.
 

If Trump and Putin are serious about an election, agree on a ceasefire and Russia military move far away from the front lines. Military aids are still flowing to Ukraine after a month since Trump ascension. He can’t cancel the congress mandated aids and there are decent republicans in Congress to stop him. Trump is a paper tiger. 

agree with you, if Zelensky wins then Ukraine will have a January 6 type rioting, Trump will claim the election was stolen, is the master of false claims and  became Putin's best asset for Russia propaganda and since Putin has historically been involved/meddling in US elections they make the perfect couple for corrupted elections if they ever happen in Ukraine, but you are correct, elections can not happen while a country is under martial law. As for ceasefire, Ukrainians refugees/displaced and military, not to worry Putin knows how to fabricate the correct amount of votes, remember what happen with the elections in Crimea and how they found out the majority of the island residents voted to be Russians  555

[Harrisfan]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Putin knows nothing of the sort. He was told by his security apparatus Ukraine would be a matter of a week's conflict. He is probably being fed misinformation by his army people too.

 

He considers Europe to be weak and disunited. Like all dictators, his subordinates tell him what they think he wants to hear.

 

 

You know this from reading msm? 

[frank83628]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Putin knows nothing of the sort. He was told by his security apparatus Ukraine would be a matter of a week's conflict. He is probably being fed misinformation by his army people too.

 

He considers Europe to be weak and disunited. Like all dictators, his subordinates tell him what they think he wants to hear.

 

 

And you know exactly what and how Putin thinks right, ?

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria. All displaying pro-Russian attitudes. As I say you just spout whatever thought bubble comes into your head.

and you expect these 3 countries to move towards Russia correct? BTW do you know that these 3 countries are NATO members, maybe you should revise the bubble that comes into your head

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

But Zelenskys term ended a year ago, the law states that the president of the Parliament should have taken over.

 

Consider yourself educated further.

you should update yourself before making some st...d comment, Ukraine is under martial law and elections can not take place, however just in case you missed it, the majority of Ukrainians will vote for Zelensky, he has 57% of support from Ukrainian people, BTW ha has much more support than your convicted orange man, while the country is under martial law there is no president of the parliament, again read some more and get educated on the matters before posting

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

 

since you didn't post a link and you are referring to the incorrect date, just to keep you up to date !!!   like you said, sometimes people should read before posting

Thursday, November 2, 1944

In Italy... Elements of the US 5th Army take Casseta, south of Bologna.

On the Western Front... The Canadian 1st Army continues the battle of the Scheldt. Intense fighting is recorded on the island of Walcheren. Elements of the British 52nd Division capture Flushing. To the rear, on the English Channel coast, Zeebrugge and Heyst are cleared of German resistance. Meanwhile, British 7th Armored Division (an element of British 2nd Army) begins new attacks and achieves a limited advance. Forces of US 3rd Army launch a new attack as well.

Over Germany... During the day, the US 8th Air Force attacks the Leuna synthetic oil plant at Merseburg. The Americans claim 183 German fighters (including 4 jets) destroyed for the loss of 40 bombers and 28 fighters (including losses to antiaircraft defenses). During the night, Bomber Command attacks Dusseldorf with 992 bombers as well as sending smaller forces to strike other targets. A total of 20 planes are reported lost in all operations.

On the Eastern Front... The German 2nd Panzer Army consolidates its position along the Drina River to the west of Belgrade.

In Yugoslavia... Partisan forces capture Zadar in Croatia.

From Washington... President Roosevelt sends Donald M. Nelson, the former chief of the War Production Board, to reorganize Chinese war production.

 

https://www.onwar.com/wwii/chronology/194411.html

[frank83628]

15 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

you should update yourself before making some st...d comment, Ukraine is under martial law and elections can not take place, however just in case you missed it, the majority of Ukrainians will vote for Zelensky, he has 57% of support from Ukrainian people, BTW ha has much more support than your convicted orange man, while the country is under martial law there is no president of the parliament, again read some more and get educated on the matters before posting

There is a Chairman of parliment thougit isn't there, and you know he should take contol normally until they are elections.

Seems zelenskys popularity is incteasing  by the hour... who'd have thought that aye!.. .people  frantically running round like headless chickens trying desperately to counter any and everything Trump says to keep the war war narrative going.

What happened to your Ukraine thread anyway lost traction after Putin got what he was always going to get

Time to take of you war hat and face reality

[dinsdale]

58 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

The chances of that happening in the foreseeable future are virtually zero. It is inconceivable that a country could align economically or militarily with Russia while at the same time remaining in the EU.

 

None of these countries will leave the EU as they have too much to lose. Not only are they are all net beneficiaries of EU funds, but leaving the Single Market and Customs Union would be an act of economic masochism.

 

Mind you, never say never. The UK decided on masochism.

I agree. About the same chance of a full on European war. Little to none. That's my point.

[frank83628]

50 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

since you didn't post a link and you are referring to the incorrect date, just to keep you up to date !!!   like you said, sometimes people should read before posting

Thursday, November 2, 1944

In Italy... Elements of the US 5th Army take Casseta, south of Bologna.

On the Western Front... The Canadian 1st Army continues the battle of the Scheldt. Intense fighting is recorded on the island of Walcheren. Elements of the British 52nd Division capture Flushing. To the rear, on the English Channel coast, Zeebrugge and Heyst are cleared of German resistance. Meanwhile, British 7th Armored Division (an element of British 2nd Army) begins new attacks and achieves a limited advance. Forces of US 3rd Army launch a new attack as well.

Over Germany... During the day, the US 8th Air Force attacks the Leuna synthetic oil plant at Merseburg. The Americans claim 183 German fighters (including 4 jets) destroyed for the loss of 40 bombers and 28 fighters (including losses to antiaircraft defenses). During the night, Bomber Command attacks Dusseldorf with 992 bombers as well as sending smaller forces to strike other targets. A total of 20 planes are reported lost in all operations.

On the Eastern Front... The German 2nd Panzer Army consolidates its position along the Drina River to the west of Belgrade.

In Yugoslavia... Partisan forces capture Zadar in Croatia.

From Washington... President Roosevelt sends Donald M. Nelson, the former chief of the War Production Board, to reorganize Chinese war production.

 

https://www.onwar.com/wwii/chronology/194411.html

Who cares about 1944? This is 2025

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

and you expect these 3 countries to move towards Russia correct? BTW do you know that these 3 countries are NATO members, maybe you should revise the bubble that comes into your head

Why not, they would  get cheap gas & oil, lowering citizens living costs, what would they lose by choosing Russia?

Germany had cheap gas, so di EU, now they paying 3x for US LNG.. not that oil and resources are anthing to do with this conflict🙄

[RayC]

18 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I agree. About the same chance of a full on European war. Little to none. That's my point.

 

I'm confused. You previously stated that Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria might go back under the 'Russian umbrella'. You now appear to rule that out?

 

I wouldn't expect a full scale European war either but who knows. Putin has often stated that Ukraine is not a country and that some of the Eastern Polish states were gifts from Stalin. Russia could do with a period of relative calm but it's not impossible that in 5+ years time, an emboldened Putin decides to push his luck further. Could the West really just look the other way then?

[RayC]

19 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Why not, they would  get cheap gas & oil, lowering citizens living costs, what would they lose by choosing Russia?

Germany had cheap gas, so di EU, now they paying 3x for US LNG.. not that oil and resources are anthing to do with this conflict🙄

 

In 2021 (latest figures I could easily find), Bulgaria was the net beneficiary of over €1.3 bn from EU funds, Slovakia benefitted to the tune of €1.7bn and Hungary over €4bn. Those figures exclude the financial benefits of being members of the Single Market and Customs Union, plus the intangible benefits their citizens enjoy from having freedom of movement within the EU bloc (27 countries).

 

Do you really think that these countries will swop that for some slightly cheaper oil and the uncertainty of living under Putin's dictat? 

[dinsdale]

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

I'm confused. You previously stated that Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria might go back under the 'Russian umbrella'. You now appear to rule that out?

 

I wouldn't expect a full scale European war either but who knows. Putin has often stated that Ukraine is not a country and that some of the Eastern Polish states were gifts from Stalin. Russia could do with a period of relative calm but it's not impossible that in 5+ years time, an emboldened Putin decides to push his luck further. Could the West really just look the other way then?

No I'm not ruling it out. I'm saying there's more chance of this happening than a war in Europe and let's be clear on this this would be WWIII. It's the what happens in 5 years time question and I agree. I doubt Putin will be in any position to push his luck and the West won't look the other way. You can guarantee this will be part of the talks. Putin will get what he wanted and a bit more. He will be told in no uncertain terms to behave. This is something Trump is good at. Part of this IMO will be a distancing from the CCP. It's obviously a mess but to just have the syndrome anti-Trumper's on here spewing their venom doesn't IMHO contribute to a good public discussion.

[frank83628]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

In 2021 (latest figures I could easily find), Bulgaria was the net beneficiary of over €1.3 bn from EU funds, Slovakia benefitted to the tune of €1.7bn and Hungary over €4bn. Those figures exclude the financial benefits of being members of the Single Market and Customs Union, plus the intangible benefits their citizens enjoy from having freedom of movement within the EU bloc (27 countries).

 

Do you really think that these countries will swop that for some slightly cheaper oil and the uncertainty of living under Putin's dictat? 

They don't have to leave the EU,  to be friendly Russia, what's wrong with the heads of those countries doing what's best for their citizens?

Not very deplomatic is it if the EU says us or Russia. 

All EU citizens now paying 3x for heating costs because US sanctions and IS destruction of Nordstream,  which never affect the US anyway. But but Putin bad. Tired old cold war mentality like the majority have

[frank83628]

I heard zelensky was asking for 250b.... 'just give us, give us' sounded quite coked up to me, seems he doesn't care whonhelps, just desperate for the cash, never trust a coke head is my motto

 

[dinsdale]

20 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

In 2021 (latest figures I could easily find), Bulgaria was the net beneficiary of over €1.3 bn from EU funds, Slovakia benefitted to the tune of €1.7bn and Hungary over €4bn. Those figures exclude the financial benefits of being members of the Single Market and Customs Union, plus the intangible benefits their citizens enjoy from having freedom of movement within the EU bloc (27 countries).

 

Do you really think that these countries will swop that for some slightly cheaper oil and the uncertainty of living under Putin's dictat? 

Politics is politics. Putin will, is, and has been influencing elections and the political scene globally. He's a dictator. The point though is how to stop the Ukraine/Russia war and how to clip Putin's wings in any further expansionists moves. Sleepy Joe was completely out of the picture on this. The neo-con hawks in his party were dictating military policy to him. Had the Democrats won there would be no cessation talks. Russia would continue on it's journey east, 100,000s of thousand if not millions more would be killed, the military industrial complex will be making a fortune and the tax payers will be subsidizing it. It has to stop and Trump is trying to do this. Yes, Ukraine is going to take a big hit in loss of territory but can anyone tell me another way. I doubt it. I have asked this question several times. How can this war be brought to an end? Those that "froth at the mouth as soon as the see the word Trump" have failed to give any reasonable answer. Indeed no answer at all except for "Trump Bad".