Electric scooters / bike

[steve2112]

I want to go electric for my next bike. I only need about 30km range for local trips to town. Honda and Yamaha seem totally disinterested in electric bikes. There's a shop near me in surat thani that has Chinese a one thai brand that looks okay. Does anyone have an experience with electric scooters in Thailand?

[scubascuba3]

The Grab electric bike looks good and fast, I'd get that one

[UWEB]

12 minutes ago, steve2112 said:

I want to go electric for my next bike. I only need about 30km range for local trips to town. Honda and Yamaha seem totally disinterested in electric bikes. There's a shop near me in surat thani that has Chinese a one thai brand that looks okay. Does anyone have an experience with electric scooters in Thailand?

Have a Deco Double Ace, range is around 80 km. You can charge at home from a normal Socket, all works fine for me.

[KhunLA]

@steve2112

Have a Deco SUSU, which would be more than you need.  Deco MC start @ <฿30k for 1000w motor, then 2000w, start <฿44k and give you a bit more torque, top end & range.

 

Love ours, and going on 3.5 years of owning.  Ours is 3000w motor, and more than you'd need.   All have been upgraded and use LFP battery chemistry, I think.

 

https://decogreenenergy.com/index.php/th/

[SAFETY FIRST]

32 minutes ago, steve2112 said:

Does anyone have an experience with electric scooters in Thailand?

These look cool. 

[OneMoreFarang]

Do you have a house and a garage which can't burn?

Otherwise think twice if you want to risk your life and property. 

[UWEB]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you have a house and a garage which can't burn?

Otherwise think twice if you want to risk your life and property. 

What a nonsense again. Why they should burn?

[Fruit Trader]

53 minutes ago, UWEB said:

What a nonsense again. Why they should burn?

 

Apparantly Mrs Prasong Vinitchai was asking the same question.

 

 

 

[UWEB]

18 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

Apparantly Mrs Prasong Vinitchai was asking the same question.

 

 

 

May be this guy has the same question

https://www.pattayamail.com/news/pattaya-speed-blaze-motorcycle-catches-fire-after-fuel-leak-rider-escapes-unharmed-489317

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, UWEB said:

What a nonsense again. Why they should burn?

 

You could google it...

 

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

You could google it...

 

Looks like a bunch of low tech, non LFP chemistry battery fires, which may or may not have been the fault of the battery.

 

The ignorance & hate is so binding 😎

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Looks like a bunch of low tech, non LFP chemistry battery fires, which may or may not have been the fault of the battery.

 

Please show us a Deco MC with LFP battery chemistry on fire .... PLEASE, just 1, or any new LFP battery powered MC on fire ... 1 just 1 

 

The ignorance & hate is so binding 😎

 

 

 

The OP wrote: "I want to go electric for my next bike."

Electric batteries are a fire risk, some more, some less. If you don't want to see this then you are ignorant.

 

I know some people accept the risk, and if you have a garage built from stone then maybe worst case the scooter burns, and the garage survives. But there are also many cases of burning vehicles which ignited the home of people, etc.

The OP should think about that before he buys one.

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

You could google it...

 

 

To place a balanced perspective... 

 

It's widely acknowledged that ICE cars are more likely to ignite and burn than EV cars.

 

Can the same be argued for motorcycles ???

 

OR...  are the current 'stock' of EV motorcycles still in their battery infancy and more less susceptible to their reliability with regards to how readily they may ignite compared to ICE bikes. 

 

As a side note: The tube out of my fuel pump split on my bike and fuel spilt all over the hot engine, it surprised me that the thing didn't go up in smoke !!... 

 

When chosing an electric bike - I'd consider range, but also the battery type as LFP batters (as they have in the cars) are generally considered far more safe - so I'd only consider an electric motorcycle with such a battery. 

 

Then there are e-Bikes, e-Scooters, Electric Motorcycles - It seems @OneMoreFarang you've been somewhat unfair and bias in the information you have provided. 

 

I'd like to see stats on 'like for like' electric motorcycles with an LFP battery and see how they stack up against their ICE counterparts.... 

 

But... equally so, this is a valid topic - I think it would be far better discussed without the irrational bias that stems from an absense of knowledge... 

 

One point I would make - the torque that comes with EV's could make an EV motorcycle extremely quick off the mark, perhaps dangerously so. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

The OP wrote: "I want to go electric for my next bike."

Electric batteries are a fire risk, some more, some less. If you don't want to see this then you are ignorant.

 

I know some people accept the risk, and if you have a garage built from stone then maybe worst case the scooter burns, and the garage survives. But there are also many cases of burning vehicles which ignited the home of people, etc.

The OP should think about that before he buys one.

 

I agree.... But 4 of the images you posted were of 'childrens stand on scooters' (or that type)...   you are muddying the waters with bias... 

 

This thread could be a good source of information...  about fire risk too, especially concerning the risks of some batteries over others...   

 

The Op is after an Electric scooter / bike, so we can assume he means in replacement of something like a Honda Click or Wave etc...     so something of that style.

[UWEB]

51 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

You could google it...

 

How many pictures you like to get from burning petrol vehicles (Cars and Motorbikes) from all around the world? Millions available.

[Lacessit]

My only experience with an electric scooter is in Australia. The stand-on type, not seated.

 

While they are fun, IMO one is extremely vulnerable to side winds or passing traffic. They have no mass to speak of, to give stability.

 

With the very small diameter wheels, they also don't handle road corrugations at all well.

 

I am not aware of electric scooters being made with the same dimensions as a Honda Click, although I have not been looking.

[impulse]

The OP didn't specify whether he is looking for a pedal bike with electric assist or an electric scooter. 

 

I've had both types in both Thailand and here in China and I'm a big fan.  Though I've never had a true motorcycle style (like the DECO's) that can be ridden at speed in traffic. 

 

I'd suggest he keep in mind licensing requirements on all the different styles.  Frankly, one of the reasons I click on these threads is to see if there are any updates in the rules or the enforcement of the rules.

 

Because these threads always devolve into a pissing contest between the fans and the detractors...

 

On that note, has there been any real change in the regs?

 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, UWEB said:

How many pictures you like to get from burning petrol vehicles (Cars and Motorbikes) from all around the world? Millions available.

 

Indeed its hardly empirical evidence or any value as a stat... 

 

But, it has raised a valid point - given the types of batteries some of these motorycles use, are they up to muster ???

 

I looked at an Electric Motorcycle a couple of years ago and decided against based on the following: 

- Range (not good enough)

- Battery (tech not good enough).

- Top speeds too low.

- I wanted 12" min (preferably 14" wheels).

- Manufacturers (unknown and quality of materials unknown).

- I wanted ABS - unclear information out there.

 

 

I figured back then the 'electric bikes' were will in their infancy, so I opted for an ICE motorcycle.

 

If looking again, I'd been doing more research for an e-Motorcycle, but it still seems the 'only' solid one out there is the eVespa - thats not really very good at all, although its been around for a while. 

 

 

[Lacessit]

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, UWEB said:

How many pictures you like to get from burning petrol vehicles (Cars and Motorbikes) from all around the world? Millions available.

 

Yes

And then look how easy it is to shut down petrol fires and how almost impossible it is to do that with lithium batteries.

 

I don't say all EV will burn. I don't day EVs burn more often than vehicles with combustion engines.

But lithium battery fires can't easily be extinguished. They burn, and burn and burn, until there is nothing to burn anymore.

[BritManToo]

47 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Looks like a bunch of low tech, non LFP chemistry battery fires, which may or may not have been the fault of the battery.

 

The ignorance & hate is so binding 😎

 

 

How would you be able to tell if your potential ebike battery Was safe without breaking it open? Or do you just trust the Chinese manufacturers to tell you?

 

My emtb is parked and charged where there's little to burn.

35kbht from Bangkok e-bikes. Range 50km+

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Yes

And then look how easy it is to shut down petrol fires and how almost impossible it is to do that with lithium batteries.

 

I don't say all EV will burn. I don't day EVs burn more often than vehicles with combustion engines.

But lithium battery fires can't easily be extinguished. They burn, and burn and burn, until there is nothing to burn anymore.

 

I think you can find scores of ICE fires that could not be distinguished until the car was a bare shell... 

 

The 'fire risk' is a complete red-herring for any such discussion and only serves to exercise bias unless digging into the specific types of batteries involved for the purposes of education and knowledge. 

 

LiFePO4 batteries are now regarded as very safe - IF looking for an Electronic Motorcycle, I'd be looking for one which uses this type of battery.... so the point is valid, but I don't thing the bias is.

 

 

 

[cjinchiangrai]

5 hours ago, steve2112 said:

I want to go electric for my next bike. I only need about 30km range for local trips to town. Honda and Yamaha seem totally disinterested in electric bikes. There's a shop near me in surat thani that has Chinese a one thai brand that looks okay. Does anyone have an experience with electric scooters in Thailand?

Two electric scooters when I lived in China. They are not good climbing hills but 30km on flat ground is about right. Mine were about the size of a 110 Click. Try for bigger voltage, 60 or 72. Mine would get up to about 60k/h and that was plenty in the city. Watch for pedestrians because they will not hear you coming. It takes several hours to charge them.

[impulse]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

Anybody that falls for a $200 electric scooter advertisement is going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[richard_smith237]

Something such as the NIU MQi GT - seems like one of the best options for Thailand.... 

 

... Though I dont like the look of the thing, the specs seem ok.

 

https://www.niu.com/uk/product/mqi-gt

 

https://www.facebook.com/niumobility.th/

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

LiFePO4 batteries are now regarded as very safe - IF looking for an Electronic Motorcycle, I'd be looking for one which uses this type of battery.... so the point is valid, but I don't thing the bias is.

 

Good that you would pay attention.

But how many people who buy any kind of EVs even know that there are different types of batteries.

And as we all know, if some Chinese advertisement tells you they use batteries type A, does that mean this is true?

 

I know lithium batteries from RC hobby, and I know the risk of them - even if they are small.

And I saw enough articles and videos from lithium battery fires which could not be stopped, even by professional fire fighters.

Is that a thing of the past? Is there no risk anymore? I don't think so.

It's up to each of us what kind of risk we are willing to take. My point is: Make sure you know there is a risk! 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Good that you would pay attention.

But how many people who buy any kind of EVs even know that there are different types of batteries.

And as we all know, if some Chinese advertisement tells you they use batteries type A, does that mean this is true?

 

Again... Valid point - which is why discussions such as this are important so that the 'uninitiated' know to look out for vehicles which utilise LiFePO4 batteries and not just concentrate on random photos of children's stand-on scooter that have caught fire

 

 

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I know lithium batteries from RC hobby, and I know the risk of them - even if they are small.

And I saw enough articles and videos from lithium battery fires which could not be stopped, even by professional fire fighters.

Is that a thing of the past? Is there no risk anymore? I don't think so.

It's up to each of us what kind of risk we are willing to take. My point is: Make sure you know there is a risk! 

 

Agreed - but again, take a balanced approach to the risk...   For example, if you were a 'non-motorcycle rider'...  you may wish to post photos of guys in hospital and highlight the risk of an accident on two wheels...   its is a risk right - but also off-topic...  Your point is closer to topic - but you present a strong bias which isn't really contributing.

 

There are enough EV vehicles out there now to know that the risk of fire is rather insignificant (that doesn't mean risk free)...   If someone asks about a Ducati, you are not going to post photo's of Ducati's that have caught fire....

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

47 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think you can find scores of ICE fires that could not be distinguished until the car was a bare shell... 

 

The 'fire risk' is a complete red-herring for any such discussion and only serves to exercise bias unless digging into the specific types of batteries involved for the purposes of education and knowledge. 

 

LiFePO4 batteries are now regarded as very safe - IF looking for an Electronic Motorcycle, I'd be looking for one which uses this type of battery.... so the point is valid, but I don't thing the bias is.

 

 

 

IMO you are missing the key fact of a lithium battery fire vs ICE.

 

Yes, it is statistically indisputable ICE fires are far more frequent than Li battery fires.

 

BUT ICE fires do not have their own oxygen supply. Battery fires do, which is why they are so difficult to extinguish.

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO you are missing the key fact of a lithium battery fire vs ICE.

 

Yes, it is statistically indisputable ICE fires are far more frequent than Li battery fires.

 

BUT ICE fires do not have their own oxygen supply. Battery fires do, which is why they are so difficult to extinguish.

 

True....  but then if we are going down that road... whats the statistical risk of getting into an accident on a two wheeled vehicle ? etc etc..  what is the statistical risk of an LiFePO4 battery catching fire on a motorcycle ?

 

If we are going to start discussing 'risk' lets at least put into into a sensible context

 

The ICE vs EV fire risk has been done to death on this forum already do the same old arguments and misinformation (amongst valid information) need to be rehashed ? - if someone wants specific information on fire risk, there is enough info on that.

 

Additionally, given their size, a lot of the EV Motorcycle batter tech is involves 'replaceable batteries' because the 'weight vs range' issue is difficult to overcome - so we could see a future where 'generic batteries' are swapped out and charged offsite.

 

But, the point made my OMF did trigger the point that if going the EV motorcycle route one should be looking at an LiFePO4 battery above all others (under current tech).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO you are missing the key fact of a lithium battery fire vs ICE.

 

Yes, it is statistically indisputable ICE fires are far more frequent than Li battery fires.

 

BUT ICE fires do not have their own oxygen supply. Battery fires do, which is why they are so difficult to extinguish.

 

I wanted to deal with a second point: 

 

Would you Lacessit avoid any EV (Car or motorcycle) because of this ???

 

The reason I ask, we switched to an EV (car) less than 6 months ago and its charged 'under' our house....    the risk of our EV catching fire is something I consider insignificant...  as equally insignificant as an ICE catch fire (which of course is greater)...  and if either catch fire at night, well, it will be burning a long time before we notice while we are asleep...  

 

IF this every bothered me about an ICE I'd be parking well away from the house. If it ever bothered me about an EV, I'd be parking well away from the house. 

 

I think social media, paranoia and over dramatisation of such issues have generated an irrational fear and attitude towards EV's....   none of us seem too concerned carrying around phone in our pockets and charging it next to us at night, or a laptop on a plane etc... 

 

 

I'm not really sure why this continues to be a discussion in an intelligent debate - personally, I think its a distraction from 'stronger points' such as quality of materials used in these EV motorcycles, such as brakes, rims,  ABS and other critical components...