Electric scooters / bike

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

How would you be able to tell if your potential ebike battery Was safe without breaking it open? Or do you just trust the Chinese manufacturers to tell you?

 

My emtb is parked and charged where there's little to burn.

35kbht from Bangkok e-bikes. Range 50km+

Need to trust a wee bit, along with doing a bit of research on any product you purchase.   As you properly use safeguards when charging, outside, and don't leave unattended or near flammable materials.

 

That uncommon common sense, that is probably in the manual of most smaller E-products & batteries.   

 

I've abused the hell out of my E-toys, and surprisingly, haven't had an oops yet.   A bit more care with the Deco MC & BEV car of course.  DIY e-bike I've abused and pushed to it's limits a bit, and still performs fine, and hasn't exploded yet 

 

I've also modified almost every small e-toy, and cant' say I've used the supplied charger from the manufacture, or if using, as designed.    And I sort of know what I'm doing.

 

With that, I suspect a lot of the reported oops, are 'user error'.  Not saying 'sh!t can't simply happen', but it is quite rare, especially that past 1 or 2 years, since most are now using LFP batteries.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Anybody that falls for a $200 electric scooter advertisement is going to be sorely disappointed.

 

That is not the price of the scooter pictured, and probably for an accessory.  LAX listings do that quite often.   That scooter sells for 10s or 1000s  of baht more.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Two electric scooters when I lived in China. They are not good climbing hills but 30km on flat ground is about right. Mine were about the size of a 110 Click. Try for bigger voltage, 60 or 72. Mine would get up to about 60k/h and that was plenty in the city. Watch for pedestrians because they will not hear you coming. It takes several hours to charge them.

A lot of your post is 'product dependent'.   Except for top end speed & range, our Deco out performed our Honda Wave 125i in every way,  Torque, ride, comfort, ease of driving.   Will do 90 kph, which I have no need to do.   Have done 87 kph, with some throttle left.

 

Wife & myself on it, and performs & handles way better than the Wave did.  Inclines, no problem, though don't think we've been on any over 30°.  Our SUSU model is 3000w 72v50Ah, as the new version has an upgraded battery.

 

Charging time for ours is about 2 hours to go from ~25% back to 100%.   Original promo for ours, as the new upgraded one is 64,000 baht, I think.  Thanks to govt incentive.  Max distance is BS, and I wouldn't try to go 100 kms with ours, if that.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Again... Valid point - which is why discussions such as this are important so that the 'uninitiated' know to look out for vehicles which utilise LiFePO4 batteries and not just concentrate on random photos of children's stand-on scooter that have caught fire

 

 

 

Agreed - but again, take a balanced approach to the risk...   For example, if you were a 'non-motorcycle rider'...  you may wish to post photos of guys in hospital and highlight the risk of an accident on two wheels...   its is a risk right - but also off-topic...  Your point is closer to topic - but you present a strong bias which isn't really contributing.

 

There are enough EV vehicles out there now to know that the risk of fire is rather insignificant (that doesn't mean risk free)...   If someone asks about a Ducati, you are not going to post photo's of Ducati's that have caught fire....

 

Thanks, mostly I agree with you.

 

Maybe my bias comes from meeting people who have an electric two-wheeler or who want to buy one and who don't know at all that there is a risk.

One of those guys had an electric scooter and he was not aware that physical damage of the battery and water (maybe long time later) can ignite the battery. I hope I don't have to post a video so that people believe that.

I don't know how many people who buy them are well informed and how many know basically nothing about the risk. 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I wanted to deal with a second point: 

 

Would you Lacessit avoid any EV (Car or motorcycle) because of this ???

 

The reason I ask, we switched to an EV (car) less than 6 months ago and its charged 'under' our house....    the risk of our EV catching fire is something I consider insignificant...  as equally insignificant as an ICE catch fire (which of course is greater)...  and if either catch fire at night, well, it will be burning a long time before we notice while we are asleep...  

 

IF this every bothered me about an ICE I'd be parking well away from the house. If it ever bothered me about an EV, I'd be parking well away from the house. 

 

I think social media, paranoia and over dramatisation of such issues have generated an irrational fear and attitude towards EV's....   none of us seem too concerned carrying around phone in our pockets and charging it next to us at night, or a laptop on a plane etc... 

 

 

I'm not really sure why this continues to be a discussion in an intelligent debate - personally, I think its a distraction from 'stronger points' such as quality of materials used in these EV motorcycles, such as brakes, rims,  ABS and other critical components... 

I would not be concerned about the risk either, if I bought an EV such as a BYD or MG. I'd be more wary of el cheapo products, where the bean counters have their pencils sharpened.

 

I understand one of the Japanese carmakers bought a BYD to strip down for the purpose of reverse engineering, and were quite shocked by the level of technical innovation.

[cjinchiangrai]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

A lot of your post is 'product dependent'.   Except for top end speed & range, our Deco out performed our Honda Wave 125i in every way,  Torque, ride, comfort, ease of driving.   Will do 90 kph, which I have no need to do.   Have done 87 kph, with some throttle left.

 

Wife & myself on it, and performs & handles way better than the Wave did.  Inclines, no problem, though don't think we've been on any over 30°.  Our SUSU model is 3000w 72v50Ah, as the new version has an upgraded battery.

 

Charging time for ours is about 2 hours to go from ~25% back to 100%.   Original promo for ours, as the new upgraded one is 64,000 baht, I think.  Thanks to govt incentive.  Max distance is BS, and I wouldn't try to go 100 kms with ours, if that.

 

Valid points. That was 6 years ago and the technology is changing rapidly. On the other hand putting a battery on a bicycle does not make it an E-Bike. 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

Wife & myself on it, and performs & handles way better than the Wave did. 

 

 

Yeah... but does anyone want to actually be seen on one ????

 

What do you do, fold up the missus and place her in the box ????

 

 

This is the 'true epitome of the saying 'scooters are like fat girls, great fun until your mates see you on one' ????   

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would not be concerned about the risk either, if I bought an EV such as a BYD or MG. I'd be more wary of el cheapo products, where the bean counters have their pencils sharpened.

 

I understand one of the Japanese carmakers bought a BYD to strip down for the purpose of reverse engineering, and were quite shocked by the level of technical innovation.

 

I've been cautious of Chinese products for a long time, often falling foul of poor materials and workmanship... (even snapping a spanner and smashing my hand in the process)...  there are still lots of horrible cheap Chinese parts on the market and I suspect a huge range in quality will still be available.... 

 

I would still be very cautious, but more so of the quality of materials, brakes etc than the battery tech which China seems to do very well. 

 

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Yeah... but does anyone want to actually be seen on one ????

 

What do you do, fold up the missus and place her in the box ????

 

 

This is the 'true epitome of the saying 'scooters are like fat girls, great fun until your mates see you on one' ????   

Obviously the box is removable, as you probably seen photos of mine without it.   Actually was thinking about putting it back on, for back support & shopping.  Wife rarely rides with me any more anyway, as usually just the dog & myself.

 

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Valid points. That was 6 years ago and the technology is changing rapidly. On the other hand putting a battery on a bicycle does not make it an E-Bike. 

I did a DIY conversion of my Schwinn, and it pretty damn spiffy.  Would put up against an production model with same specs.   Although I do need to exercise a bit of cautions, as suspension & brakes weren't designed for the speeds it will do now.   Did recently upgrade the brakes, for that reason.  

 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, KhunLA said:

as usually just the dog & myself.

 

 

Does the dog have no shame ????   

 

 

Seriously though - this seems pretty much ideal for the conditions the op mentioned... 

 

 

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I've been cautious of Chinese products for a long time, often falling foul of poor materials and workmanship... (even snapping a spanner and smashing my hand in the process)...  there are still lots of horrible cheap Chinese parts on the market and I suspect a huge range in quality will still be available.... 

 

I would still be very cautious, but more so of the quality of materials, brakes etc than the battery tech which China seems to do very well. 

 

 

NMC and NCA batteries have a significantly higher risk of thermal runaway than LFP batteries, and i'll bet there are still quite a few of them around in scooters, phones etc.

 

Zeekr, Xpeng and NIO are EV carmakers that still use NMC and NCA battery technology.

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Does the dog have no shame ????   

 

 

Seriously though - this seems pretty much ideal for the conditions the op mentioned... 

Mines way more than he needs.   He could probably get by with one of the 1000w motor models, but I'd go for one the the 2000w motor models.  @steve2112

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

I did a DIY conversion of my Schwinn, and it pretty damn spiffy.  Would put up against an production model with same specs ...  

 

 

I rode up the steeps in Grizedale (lake district UK) on a Haibike  Mountain e-bike - with a 'baby trailer' (a dedicated trailer to carry children for my 2 year old)... 

 

I couldn't believe how much power it had...     I wanted one for Thailand instead of a motorcycle (for local trips etc).....  The issue of course is how easily something that valuable and that light is stolen when popping to a 7-11 and having it out of sight for 10 mins...  

 

Thus... the viable alternative is the adaptation as above - but there is also the speed concern.

 

On a motorcycle (and e-Motorcycle) you can travel at 'traffic speed' without other bikes and cars passing at speed.....  It is the speed 'differential' which I find lethal in Thailand when having ridden a bicycle here... 

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

NMC and NCA batteries have a significantly higher risk of thermal runaway than LFP batteries, and i'll bet there are still quite a few of them around in scooters, phones etc.

 

Zeekr, Xpeng and NIO are EV carmakers that still use NMC and NCA battery technology.

Also model dependent, for performance and or long range models.   Along with cold weather locations.   Was informed earlier, the BYD does use LFP's in all versions of their models, whether standard, performance or LR models.

 

Simple research of products one is interested in keep people safe.  That uncommon common sense, especially when splashing out more than a few 100 thousand baht.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I rode up the steeps in Grizedale (lake district UK) on a Haibike  Mountain e-bike - with a 'baby trailer' (a dedicated trailer to carry children for my 2 year old)... 

 

I couldn't believe how much power it had...     I wanted one for Thailand instead of a motorcycle (for local trips etc).....  The issue of course is how easily something that valuable and that light is stolen when popping to a 7-11 and having it out of sight for 10 mins...  

 

Thus... the viable alternative is the adaptation as above - but there is also the speed concern.

 

On a motorcycle (and e-Motorcycle) you can travel at 'traffic speed' without other bikes and cars passing at speed.....  It is the speed 'differential' which I find lethal in Thailand when having ridden a bicycle here... 

Mine will easily do 45 kph, and get some strange looks on the rare occasions I do pass people.   Although I do tend to keep it around 25 or 30 kph, if not slower through town.   Avoiding as much attention as possible, since illegal as all hell.

 

1000w motor easily puts it in the (unregistered, uninsured) motorcycle classification.🙄

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

NMC and NCA batteries have a significantly higher risk of thermal runaway than LFP batteries, and i'll bet there are still quite a few of them around in scooters, phones etc.

 

Agreed...   I think we all remember the issues with the kids 'hoverboards' catching fire....  although that was somewhat of a media 'pile-on'....

 

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Zeekr, Xpeng and NIO are EV carmakers that still use NMC and NCA battery technology.

 

 

Newer Zeekrs use the LFP (i.e. the Zeekr 007, 7X & Mix), XPENG P5 also uses LFP....

 

Nevertheless, I didn't go with a Chinese Brand because of varied reasons, primarily, I liked the car I chose, also the lack of dealership access seemed to be an issue (for me)... and of course, I wanted a Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) battery not a Ternary Lithium (NMC) battery for the reasons mentioned already in this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

[Baht Simpson]

2 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Two electric scooters when I lived in China. They are not good climbing hills but 30km on flat ground is about right. Mine were about the size of a 110 Click. Try for bigger voltage, 60 or 72. Mine would get up to about 60k/h and that was plenty in the city. Watch for pedestrians because they will not hear you coming. It takes several hours to charge them.

cj, what's the advantage of 60/72v over the standard 48v?

[carlyai]

8 hours ago, steve2112 said:

I want to go electric for my next bike. I only need about 30km range for local trips to town. Honda and Yamaha seem totally disinterested in electric bikes. There's a shop near me in surat thani that has Chinese a one thai brand that looks okay. Does anyone have an experience with electric scooters in Thailand?

I've got 2 for sale 🙂

[cjinchiangrai]

50 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

cj, what's the advantage of 60/72v over the standard 48v?

More power and longer range. 5 or 6 batteries instead of 4.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Baht Simpson said:

cj, what's the advantage of 60/72v over the standard 48v?

For an e-bike, volts indicate the battery's electrical pressure that powers the motor.
Watts measure the motor’s power output, affecting speed and hill-climbing performance.
Battery capacity (Ah/Wh) determines the range or runtime on a single charge.