Split AC Keeps Freezing over in exercise room

[atpeace]

51 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

@atpeace
 

They certainly will though they are not at all cheap if you get a good one. You will need a floor drain or very long outlet pipe to another room that has a floor drain.
 

My dehumidifier can drop the humidity in my workshop by 10% to 20%! Now before you get your panties in a bunch the workshop has a floor area of 90sqm and a volume of 450cm before deducting for tools and fixtures.

this was more expensive than an big AC but is mobile 

 

so probably if you drop the humidity to 30% before you start, have it and a good A/C running at the same time it will be OK though the 45 litres a day may be too little 

 

NB you need the AC because the humidifier is blowing hot air, it must to dehumidify. 

 

Interesting and for my small 3x4 exercise room it would be much cheaper I think.  I have done a little research and 5k-8k baht  unit should suffice.  It won't be running more than 2-4 hours a day.  My current AC can drop the humidity to 45% in a couple hours and creates a river by the drain pipe.  I'm going to see if it is able to keep the humidity down in dry mode while on a long treadmill run in a few days.  Running outside today 🙂  

 

My prior ACs wouldn't cool much in dry mode but this new AC does and the humidity drops fast.  I assume it is because it it is oversized for the tiny room.

 

Thanks for the input.

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, atpeace said:

Interesting and for my small 3x4 exercise room it would be much cheaper I think.  I have done a little research and 5k-8k baht  unit should suffice. 

That is probably incorrect thinking. You can probably estimate the amount of water you need to drink for your personal exercise for an hour. The unit I have can at best remove 1.8 litres in an hour that is if conditions are perfect for it. 
 

Take your requirement, at least double it multiple by 24 and look for a unit that has at least that if not more. Make sure you can use a drain pipe, if you can’t you will regret it DAKHIKT. The cheaper units don’t have a facility to add a pipe.

 

if you are determined on a lower output unit then I would suggest the XIAOMI XMI-BHR8121TH, that is less than 1 litre per hour but the brand is good 

 

5 hours ago, atpeace said:

My current AC can drop the humidity to 45% in a couple hours and creates a river by the drain pipe.  I'm going to see if it is able to keep the humidity down in dry mode while on a long treadmill run in a few days.

Make sure that before you start you have the humidity as low as it can go, I seldom see less than 50% but then I’m not trying. A report back after you have experimented would be good.

 

NB pay no attention to the room size recommendations, it’s the litres per 24 hours/24 that is relevant, and your requirements are extreme.

[GammaGlobulin]

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

@atpeace
 

They certainly will though they are not at all cheap if you get a good one. You will need a floor drain or very long outlet pipe to another room that has a floor drain.
 

My dehumidifier can drop the humidity in my workshop by 10% to 20%! Now before you get your panties in a bunch the workshop has a floor area of 90sqm and a volume of 450cm before deducting for tools and fixtures.

this was more expensive than an big AC but is mobile 

 

so probably if you drop the humidity to 30% before you start, have it and a good A/C running at the same time it will be OK though the 45 litres a day may be too little 

 

NB you need the AC because the humidifier is blowing hot air, it must to dehumidify. 

 

 

The problem is that he has somehow come to the invalid conclusion that the icing is caused by excessive humidity, which is false.

Reducing humidity in the room being cooled will therefore not reduce the probability that this problem will occur.

 

IF he REALLY wants to show that this is being caused by humidity, then he will need to buy a humidifier and a hygrometer, and then do a lot of testing to rule out other more likely causes.

 

He will need to do trials at varying temps and humidity.

 

Also, one possibility is that exercising in a small room, maybe with other heat-producing equipment running, is causing the temp in the room to increase.

And this increase causes the AC's compressor to run at a higher percentage of the time.

And this, then, is what causes the ice to form.

If this is the case, then he should have the AC serviced.

And, he should check the factors that have already been suggested, such as coolant pressure loss, etc.

 

One cannot just form a hypothesis, and then not test it, and then state that it is valid.

That is just NOT DONE in science.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

7 hours ago, atpeace said:

Yes but it doesn't apply to my situation which I am 100% sure is caused by humidity when it nears 100% for 90 minutes.  I wasn't asking about my AC functionality.  I have owned probably 20 ACs over the years here in Thailand and understand all the issues you discussed.  

 

I had my 3 ACs cleaned 5 days ago and a new AC installed the same day.  My  AC iced over in the AC that was just cleaned.  I then moved my treadmill to my new exercise room and it was frigid during my easy workouts but iced over after 90 minute hard run just like all ACs have done over the last 20 years in Thailand.   BTW, all the non exercise room AC are working perfectly as they always have for 20years - LOL.

 

It would be almost impossible for any AC under 12000 BTU( A 20k + BTU would remove the humidity faster than it could accumulate in my 3x4 room ) to not freeze up often when the windows are fogging over as they do occasionally during hard 90 minute runs.  

 

Thanks for trying to help but yet again it isn't answering my question in the OP. Cheers and thanks again 🙂

 

I would suggest that you are:

 

Confusing correlation with cause-and-effect.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

The problem is that he has somehow come to the invalid conclusion that the icing is caused by excessive humidity, which is false.

Reducing humidity in the room being cooled will therefore not reduce the probability that this problem will occur.

 

IF he REALLY wants to show that this is being caused by humidity, then he will need to buy a humidifier and a hygrometer, and then do a lot of testing to rule out other more likely causes.

 

He will need to do trials at varying temps and humidity.

 

Also, one possibility is that exercising in a small room, maybe with other heat-producing equipment running, is causing the temp in the room to increase.

And this increase causes the AC's compressor to run at a higher percentage of the time.

And this, then, is what causes the ice to form.

If this is the case, then he should have the AC serviced.

And, he should check the factors that have already been suggested, such as coolant pressure loss, etc.

 

One cannot just form a hypothesis, and then not test it, and then state that it is valid.

That is just NOT DONE in science.

 

 

I think you are confusing the problem.

While a hygrometer is useful (I have many scattered round and outside the house) there is zero need for a humidifier in Thailand, in most places, (I needed them in the Tokyo winter with a RH of 10% it was painful without them).

That the windows are running with condensation shows a greater than 80% RH

That many AC units have not cured the problem are many data points.

the hypothesis has been tested. The only factor that has not heretofore been tested is reducing the proven humidity with a good dehumidifier.

 

All the point you raise have already been checked. The one that hasn’t is the dehumidifier.

 

With all of that I have never experienced an AC icing up but having watched many videos of commercial coolers and freezers they all ice up but have defrost cycles and heaters to solve that problem. They will defrost several times a day. This proves that an AC icing up is an expected situation and steps are taken to reduce the effect. If the RH is low enough the ice formation will be slowed, QED a dehumidifier will help as long as it is powerful enough. 
 

an interesting channel is

 

[atpeace]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

I would suggest that you are:

 

Confusing correlation with cause-and-effect.

 

 

OK, you are correct.  Thanks so much 🙂

 

[atpeace]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I think you are confusing the problem.

While a hygrometer is useful (I have many scattered round and outside the house) there is zero need for a humidifier in Thailand, in most places, (I needed them in the Tokyo winter with a RH of 10% it was painful without them).

That the windows are running with condensation shows a greater than 80% RH

That many AC units have not cured the problem are many data points.

the hypothesis has been tested. The only factor that has not heretofore been tested is reducing the proven humidity with a good dehumidifier.

 

All the point you raise have already been checked. The one that hasn’t is the dehumidifier.

 

With all of that I have never experienced an AC icing up but having watched many videos of commercial coolers and freezers they all ice up but have defrost cycles and heaters to solve that problem. They will defrost several times a day. This proves that an AC icing up is an expected situation and steps are taken to reduce the effect. If the RH is low enough the ice formation will be slowed, QED a dehumidifier will help as long as it is powerful enough. 
 

an interesting channel is

 

It is funny at this point.  This happens with every AC for 20 years and doesn't happen with the 15 other ACs not used in the my exercise rooms over the last 20 years.  I find many of Gamma's posts entertaining and his posts above are no exception.

 

Now I just have to buy a dehumidifier.  I sweat about 2-3 liters an hour on very hard days and dehumidifier would theoretically capture 1 liter an hour  and hope the AC can drain another 1-2 liters.  If I started at 45% humidity and the it climbed to 75% that would probably be OK and the the coils wouldn't ice over.

[atpeace]

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is probably incorrect thinking. You can probably estimate the amount of water you need to drink for your personal exercise for an hour. The unit I have can at best remove 1.8 litres in an hour that is if conditions are perfect for it. 
 

Take your requirement, at least double it multiple by 24 and look for a unit that has at least that if not more. Make sure you can use a drain pipe, if you can’t you will regret it DAKHIKT. The cheaper units don’t have a facility to add a pipe.

 

if you are determined on a lower output unit then I would suggest the XIAOMI XMI-BHR8121TH, that is less than 1 litre per hour but the brand is good 

 

Make sure that before you start you have the humidity as low as it can go, I seldom see less than 50% but then I’m not trying. A report back after you have experimented would be good.

 

NB pay no attention to the room size recommendations, it’s the litres per 24 hours/24 that is relevant, and your requirements are extreme.

Perfect and thanks!!!  I think I'll go with the Xiaomi because my AC should remove at least as much water. I'm "guessing" the AC can almost do the job without the dehumidifier and if I can remove an extra .5 to 1 liter with the dehumidifier per hour the coils won't ice over.

[mogandave]

Coils icing over are typically a sign of low refrigerant. 

 

So it works fine for the other 20 hours a day you are not running? 

 

When you quit running it thaws right out? 

 

[atpeace]

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Coils icing over are typically a sign of low refrigerant. 

 

So it works fine for the other 20 hours a day you are not running? 

 

When you quit running it thaws right out? 

 

Yes, it works fine after it thaws as my previous 4 ACs in my exercise rooms over the last 20 years.  All had adequate refrigerant.  Not trying to be rude but nobody seems to have read the OP. I don't need AC advice but asking about how to lessen the humidity.

[sometimewoodworker]

52 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Now I just have to buy a dehumidifier.  I sweat about 2-3 liters an hour on very hard days and dehumidifier would theoretically capture 1 liter an hour  and hope the AC can drain another 1-2 liters.  If I started at 45% humidity and the it climbed to 75% that would probably be OK and the the coils wouldn't ice over.

While the Xiaomi can theoretically extract 1 litre per hour that is in ideal conditions, I would not expect the performance to be that good. I also doubt that your current AC will be pulling that much water out of the room.

the good point of the Xiaomi is that if you see an improvement you can always get a second unit and while 1+1 is not equal to 2 it will be better than 1

 

Certainly it will be better than without it. I would suggest a simple test of a bucket under the AC drain for an hour of exercise and check how much water is actually produced.

 

 

[mogandave]

3 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Yes, it works fine after it thaws as my previous 4 ACs in my exercise rooms over the last 20 years.  All had adequate refrigerant.  

Funny none of the membership gyms with twenty guys on treadmills in a small room have that problem. 

 

Just leave the door open with a fan to blow the air out int the other room.