Can Americans afford vacations anymore?

[hotsun]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

over the past 5 years inflation has been bordering on insanity, and the cost of living has gone up very dramatically, 

 

 

Careful. The left doesnt like that truth

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

I guarantee you still had a landline in 2001 and cable TV. ✅

 

Because you are a MAGA lemming. 😄

Lived in TH in 2000, didn't have a landline phone or a TV.    Same with living in Memphis, TN, USA area, just before coming to TH.   I don't think I've owned a tv since 1980s, till about 2003, and only watched DVDs with my daughter.   English DVDs, as a learning tool for her.   No TV programming, and still don't have any.  

 

Only 'TV' watched now is torrent downloads, and only because there isn't much going on at nighttime, living rural in TH.  Besides, playing with the wife & dog is more interesting than anything TV programming.   Not being a sports fan, not needed for that either.

 

I've always considered TV nothing but a waste of time, and movies simply time killers.   Especially now, since what they put out is geared to the brain dead.

 

A lot of my free time is planning O&As, whether local or a long week of overnights, exploring TH.  No different than when living in USA.   Planning trips to relax and explore in TH.   Same when in USA, except a lot of taking to women, since single there, quite often.

 

TV is not living life, it's killing time.

[SiSePuede419]

44 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Lived in TH in 2000, didn't have a landline phone or a TV.    Same with living in Memphis, TN, USA area, just before coming to TH.   I don't think I've owned a tv since 1980s, till about 2003, and only watched DVDs with my daughter.   English DVDs, as a learning tool for her.   No TV programming, and still don't have any.  

 

Only 'TV' watched now is torrent downloads, and only because there isn't much going on at nighttime, living rural in TH.  Besides, playing with the wife & dog is more interesting than anything TV programming.   Not being a sports fan, not needed for that either.

 

I've always considered TV nothing but a waste of time, and movies simply time killers.   Especially now, since what they put out is geared to the brain dead.

 

A lot of my free time is planning O&As, whether local or a long week of overnights, exploring TH.  No different than when living in USA.   Planning trips to relax and explore in TH.   Same when in USA, except a lot of taking to women, since single there, quite often.

 

TV is not living life, it's killing time.

I'm so old I remember when... 

I could name every car on the road
Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, Lincoln, Chrysler and Ford.

 

Now everybody's driving SUV's and they all look the same

Mountain monsters, land-eaters, all kinds of old crazy names. 

 

Every time I see a "Land Rover" I know the only land they "rove" are shopping mall parking garages.

 

And they're probably leasing it because it's a maintenance nightmare.

 

And they're probably a Republican influencer Real Estate agent living beyond their means. 😄

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Real Estate agent living beyond their means. 😄

Never lived beyond my means, why I could vacation (not hi so), anytime, anywhere at a whim, and retire early.   Before moving to TH, only owned 1 new vehicle, and that was a work truck, for dependability.  

 

Lived in crap neighborhoods, usually while rehabbing (a little sweat equity) my next rental property.  Building equity and income from non salaried jobs was always the priority.   

 

Independence from govt & corporations.   Still live by that today, with solar, BEVs, and garden/greenhouse for whole foods & home cooking.  Interesting hobbies & time consuming, as living life is.   Yea, minimal TV viewing, and more living life.

 

Oh honey, ready for my 2nd cup.  Get my morning reading out of the way, before baking some Rye bread, then the dog will take me out to the park, for my morning walk.  

 

Need to hit Global House today, again, as having a small microwave on sale.  Need one for the trunk of the car, when O&A, for making sure the market street food is at proper temp before eating, while munching at a nice viewpoint when O&A.   Already travel with water kettle & French press for our coffee fix in the morning.

 

Rolling stone collects no moss ... ROCK ON

Cruising around with my 'Blue Jean Baby Queen',  and the dog of course.

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, hotsun said:

Careful. The left doesnt like that truth

Well I suspect that your comment maybe partisan in nature, but the reality as you likely know is that both parties are severely inept, both parties are extremely corrupt, both parties have horrific leaders, and both parties may be broken beyond repair. 

 

Nobody is ever going to make America great again, the nation's been on a fairly steep decline for at least 30 years, and that's not going to change certainly not with tariffs and destruction of most alliances. 

[Patong2021]

7 hours ago, TedG said:

 

 

Shall I do the CPI math for you?

Sure. 

Are you saying the treasury statement was incorrect?

[KhunLA]

27 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Sure. 

Are you saying the treasury statement was incorrect?

I always found the 'treasury' statements only suit themselves.  Remember ...

 

 

And yet ... 50% of earners, only pay <4% income tax ... Go figure 

 

 

 

[SiSePuede419]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

And yet ... 50% of earners, only pay <4% income tax ... Go figure 

The Bottom 4% of income earners living too high on the hog for you?

😀

 

You might be surprised to learn that's why Trump never showed his tax returns.

He was paying even less. 

 

But that's OK if Rich People pay less, correct?

 

You do realize some corporations pay zero, right? 😂

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, SiSePuede419 said:

The Bottom 4% of income earners living too high on the hog for you?

😀

 

You might be surprised to learn that's why Trump never showed his tax returns.

He was paying even less. 

 

But that's OK if Rich People pay less, correct?

 

You do realize some corporations pay zero, right? 😂

Everyone is subject to the same tax code, and can use to their advantage.   

 

How much taxes did his assets provide to the tax base ?  RE & school taxes on his business and personal properties, assets.  Taxes for just 1 property ...

 

 

How much income did he put into the economy via his employees' salaries, along with their income tax contributions.   Along with every other tax they paid on their purchases, RE taxes, school taxes, providing more jobs & tax revenue.

 

Smart rich people don't have an income, by paying themselves salaries.   They get low interest loans against their assets, and live off that.   Paying 5-10% interest, instead of 25-37% income tax, then deduct the interest off their tax liabilities.

 

All things everyone can do.  Tax code is available for everyone to use and or abuse.   Allowing everyone to manage their finances the best they can ....

 

... to afford those vacations (always on topic)

 

OMT ... work smarter not harder

[Patong2021]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I always found the 'treasury' statements only suit themselves.  Remember ...

 

 

And yet ... 50% of earners, only pay <4% income tax ... Go figure 

 

 

 

 

Common mistake. Household income refers to ALL INCOME  of the household. This can include multiple taxpayers. A household can have multiple individual tax filers. Consider a  household with 2  teenagers who work at Burger King part time. The parents might be highly paid inflating the household income, but the 2 kids can be minimum wage earners.

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, SiSePuede419 said:

The Bottom 4% of income earners living too high on the hog for you?

😀

 

You might be surprised to learn that's why Trump never showed his tax returns.

He was paying even less. 

 

But that's OK if Rich People pay less, correct?

 

You do realize some corporations pay zero, right? 😂

 

Some wealthy people use every loophole and  scams to avoid or to minimize their tax liabilities. However, a great many pay more than their fair share. I am one of them and find the generalizations that "wealthy" people are crooked, because most are not.

[SingAPorn]

Like anyplace, those with cash will travel and those with no cash will stay back home. But there are quite a few americains all around. One can hear them loudly speaking as if they owned the place.

[BritManToo]

I've not left home since COVID.

If you live somewhere nice, do you really need to go on holiday?

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Some wealthy people use every loophole and  scams to avoid or to minimize their tax liabilities. However, a great many pay more than their fair share. I am one of them and find the generalizations that "wealthy" people are crooked, because most are not.

Yes, I had 2 huge tax bills, actually after retirement, because I no longer had any deductions.  Broke that 5% income level, with no deductions, so yea .... OUCH

 

Although through some creative number playing, managed to keep below the max tax rate of 37% at the time.  Registered in a state with no income tax. 😎

 

For the curious, 5% starts @

 

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've not left home since COVID.

If you live somewhere nice, do you really need to go on holiday?

Yea, I took a lot more, and longer breaks away from home when living in Udon Thani.   Now live were we use to go quite often, so sometimes wonder why we bother going O&A.

 

They are shorter, and more about different food and a view, not so much exploring anything new, as already did that the first 20 years here.  As stated a few times, the journey is more interesting than the destinations.

 

And we only seem to settle in for a day or 2, before moving one.  It's nice when we find a bungalow with a view & pool alang with good food, or a great night market nearby.

[TedG]

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Sure. 

Are you saying the treasury statement was incorrect?

You don’t know what you are talking about.  

 

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/cpiw.html

 

Jan 2021. 255.296

Jan 2025. 311.172

 

311.172 - 255.296 =55.876      55.876/311.172=0.2188.   Or 21.88 percent.  

 

Which means under Joe Biden prices increased by 21.88%. Which means your purchasing power is reduced.  

 

One poster rebuttable was the market went up.  So what?  That does not change the fact that your purchasing power is down.   Posting data from the fed does not change the fact that people’s purchasing power was reduced by 22% under Joe Biden.  

 

You need to stay in your swim lane. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2024/06/20/americans-buying-power-shrinks-more-report/74141192007/

 

Over the past five years, 97% of occupation’s salaries have failed to keep up with inflation, said personal finance platform Moneywise, which analyzed data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the Federal Housing Agency (FIFA) and Redfin to find out how salaries have kept up. It found average salaries have fallen 8.2% as home prices rose an average of 56%

 

 

[TedG]

3 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

The Bottom 4% of income earners living too high on the hog for you?

😀

 

You might be surprised to learn that's why Trump never showed his tax returns.

He was paying even less. 

 

But that's OK if Rich People pay less, correct?

 

You do realize some corporations pay zero, right? 😂

 

if you want to argue that the rich pay less then you need to define the rich.  

[TedG]

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Some wealthy people use every loophole and  scams to avoid or to minimize their tax liabilities. However, a great many pay more than their fair share. I am one of them and find the generalizations that "wealthy" people are crooked, because most are not.

There is no such thing as a loophole.   It’s either legal or illegal during tax season.   I’m sure sure tax season comes around you try to minimize your tax liability.  

[TedG]

1 hour ago, SingAPorn said:

Like anyplace, those with cash will travel and those with no cash will stay back home. But there are quite a few americains all around. One can hear them loudly speaking as if they owned the place.

Nah.

[TedG]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Well I suspect that your comment maybe partisan in nature, but the reality as you likely know is that both parties are severely inept, both parties are extremely corrupt, both parties have horrific leaders, and both parties may be broken beyond repair. 

 

Nobody is ever going to make America great again, the nation's been on a fairly steep decline for at least 30 years, and that's not going to change certainly not with tariffs and destruction of most alliances. 

These alliances that you cherish so much are costing the tax payer a pile of money.  Such as NATO. 

[TedG]

19 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

The S&P 500 gained almost 60% between January 20, 2021 and January 20, 2025.  Lots of people made lots of money under Joe Biden. Trump seems to be taking the markets in the other direction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what?  You still pay more for less.   

[jas007]

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Some wealthy people use every loophole and  scams to avoid or to minimize their tax liabilities. However, a great many pay more than their fair share. I am one of them and find the generalizations that "wealthy" people are crooked, because most are not.

No one is a crook just because they take advantage of available tax strategies.  But it's not always so simple.  Take a look, sometime, at the tax code and regulations and rulings and cases from the tax courts.  It's a real mess. And yes, some people do cheat.  Sometimes they get away with it, sometimes they don't. 

[SiSePuede419]

1 hour ago, TedG said:

These alliances that you cherish so much are costing the tax payer a pile of money.  Such as NATO. 

Noooo.  NATO is saving us money.

Instead of having to pay money to decommission old equipment we send it to Ukraine and buy brand new equipment for our military.

Joe Biden was quite brilliant--saved taxpayers money and upgrades the u s of a to fresh equipment.

What's punk Donnie done lately besides suck up to our nation's enemy Russia? 😜

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, TedG said:

These alliances that you cherish so much are costing the tax payer a pile of money.  Such as NATO. 

Pushing countries around ,maintaining  a presence, initiating and obtaining trade and political advantage all require the support of other nations. The  USA cannot  demand the support of others if it does not offer support in return.

 

Did you foreget that the USA found NATO very helpful when it started a war in Afghanistan and had other nations waste billions of $$ and  the lives of its  military in support of the USA?

Trump will be gone in a few years if not sooner, and another administration will have a different perspective.

 

It is only a matter of time before someone detonates a dirty bomb in a big US city. Let's see if the USA has the capability to obtain the support it received after 9-11.

[Patong2021]

2 hours ago, TedG said:

You don’t know what you are talking about.  

 

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/cpiw.html

 

Jan 2021. 255.296

Jan 2025. 311.172

 

311.172 - 255.296 =55.876      55.876/311.172=0.2188.   Or 21.88 percent.  

 

Which means under Joe Biden prices increased by 21.88%. Which means your purchasing power is reduced.  

 

One poster rebuttable was the market went up.  So what?  That does not change the fact that your purchasing power is down.   Posting data from the fed does not change the fact that people’s purchasing power was reduced by 22% under Joe Biden.  

 

You need to stay in your swim lane. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2024/06/20/americans-buying-power-shrinks-more-report/74141192007/

 

Over the past five years, 97% of occupation’s salaries have failed to keep up with inflation, said personal finance platform Moneywise, which analyzed data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the Federal Housing Agency (FIFA) and Redfin to find out how salaries have kept up. It found average salaries have fallen 8.2% as home prices rose an average of 56%

 

 

 

You made some BIG assumptions. One of them is the assumption that an increase in prices MUST result in a similar reduction in purchasing power. This assumption  also assumes that wages have not increased. 

 

Increased wages reduce the impact of price increases because the  wage earner makes more to offset in all or in part, the price increases.

 

Yes, the cumulative rate of inflation during Biden's term was 21.2% . However, earnings rose by 19.4% during that time. (Bureau of Labor Statistics). That's a difference of 1.8%. However, that difference does not translate into a significant loss of purchasing power. It all depends on whether critical items  have experienced the large price increases. If  luxury items have  gone up 40%, it doesn't make much of a difference to a person  of limited financial means. Where it hurts is in daily critical items, like gasoline.

 

Medical costs  were reduced 9.6% under Biden, Groceries increased 3.4%. Not significant.

What drove the price increase index was the cost of gasoline (20.2% increase) and transportation (12.1%). 

 

You have offered as evidence of your position an article from USA Today. Please look at the  article again. It was written in June 2024 and it undermines your  position. Biden's term was not over, and the economy was recovering. The Moneywise article states;.  The last three years have seen an average annual inflation of 5.6%, which is certainly better than 21.4%  😄

The Moneywise analysts used 5 years of data, which means that they went back to the Trump administration in 2020 and 2019.  Using your study that you thought "blamed" Biden, it could also be used to blame Trump. However, I am not going to to make the same error you have made. 

 

You also ignore the impact that Covid had on salaries. Almost everyone was getting a haircut. At the start of Covid, My US headquartered company froze all matching contributions to our pension plan, and froze bonuses and annual increases. That lasted a year, but once Covid stabilized, we were all made whole and many of us collected compenastory bonuses. This was repeated in many companies, and contributed to inflation.

 

So why not be honest and look at the real reason why  there was such a jump in prices. It had nothing to do with Biden. The end of Covid brought with it increased demand for everything including travel and gasoline, which drove the price index since  so much depends upon fuel powered transportation.

 

As a reminder, U.S. oil production hit an all-time high of about 13 million barrels per day (BPD). As the pandemic unfolded, demand for oil collapsed, and production followed. By May 2020, oil production had dropped by more than 3 million BPD to 9.7 million BPD.

When the pandemic crushed oil demand in 2020, some oil companies went out of business. Some small stripper wells — which account for a respectable amount of U.S. oil production — were permanently capped because of the bleak outlook. Some workers left the oil industry. As people went back to work, demand began to bounce back, but production lagged due to the aforementioned issues.

Following the production collapse of 2020, the U.S. has been playing catch up as demand recovered. Rising oil prices — in response to insufficient supplies — are the predominant reason for the surge in gasoline prices. (Forbes Energy Newsletter March 2022)

 

[TedG]

9 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

You made some BIG assumptions. One of them is the assumption that an increase in prices MUST result in a similar reduction in purchasing power. This assumption  also assumes that wages have not increased. 

 

Increased wages reduce the impact of price increases because the  wage earner makes more to offset in all or in part, the price increases.

 

Yes, the cumulative rate of inflation during Biden's term was 21.2% . However, earnings rose by 19.4% during that time. (Bureau of Labor Statistics). That's a difference of 1.8%. However, that difference does not translate into a significant loss of purchasing power. It all depends on whether critical items  have experienced the large price increases. If  luxury items have  gone up 40%, it doesn't make much of a difference to a person  of limited financial means. Where it hurts is in daily critical items, like gasoline.

 

Medical costs  were reduced 9.6% under Biden, Groceries increased 3.4%. Not significant.

What drove the price increase index was the cost of gasoline (20.2% increase) and transportation (12.1%). 

 

You have offered as evidence of your position an article from USA Today. Please look at the  article again. It was written in June 2024 and it undermines your  position. Biden's term was not over, and the economy was recovering. The Moneywise article states;.  The last three years have seen an average annual inflation of 5.6%, which is certainly better than 21.4%  😄

The Moneywise analysts used 5 years of data, which means that they went back to the Trump administration in 2020 and 2019.  Using your study that you thought "blamed" Biden, it could also be used to blame Trump. However, I am not going to to make the same error you have made. 

 

You also ignore the impact that Covid had on salaries. Almost everyone was getting a haircut. At the start of Covid, My US headquartered company froze all matching contributions to our pension plan, and froze bonuses and annual increases. That lasted a year, but once Covid stabilized, we were all made whole and many of us collected compenastory bonuses. This was repeated in many companies, and contributed to inflation.

 

So why not be honest and look at the real reason why  there was such a jump in prices. It had nothing to do with Biden. The end of Covid brought with it increased demand for everything including travel and gasoline, which drove the price index since  so much depends upon fuel powered transportation.

 

As a reminder, U.S. oil production hit an all-time high of about 13 million barrels per day (BPD). As the pandemic unfolded, demand for oil collapsed, and production followed. By May 2020, oil production had dropped by more than 3 million BPD to 9.7 million BPD.

When the pandemic crushed oil demand in 2020, some oil companies went out of business. Some small stripper wells — which account for a respectable amount of U.S. oil production — were permanently capped because of the bleak outlook. Some workers left the oil industry. As people went back to work, demand began to bounce back, but production lagged due to the aforementioned issues.

Following the production collapse of 2020, the U.S. has been playing catch up as demand recovered. Rising oil prices — in response to insufficient supplies — are the predominant reason for the surge in gasoline prices. (Forbes Energy Newsletter March 2022)

 

 

Prices have increased.   Even if you make more money, you are still paying more.  You just make more. 

[TedG]

9 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Pushing countries around ,maintaining  a presence, initiating and obtaining trade and political advantage all require the support of other nations. The  USA cannot  demand the support of others if it does not offer support in return.

 

Did you foreget that the USA found NATO very helpful when it started a war in Afghanistan and had other nations waste billions of $$ and  the lives of its  military in support of the USA?

Trump will be gone in a few years if not sooner, and another administration will have a different perspective.

 

It is only a matter of time before someone detonates a dirty bomb in a big US city. Let's see if the USA has the capability to obtain the support it received after 9-11.

The US has spent trillions since WW2 to keep the peace.  It's time for the other western nations to step up. 

[TedG]

10 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Noooo.  NATO is saving us money.

Instead of having to pay money to decommission old equipment we send it to Ukraine and buy brand new equipment for our military.

Joe Biden was quite brilliant--saved taxpayers money and upgrades the u s of a to fresh equipment.

What's punk Donnie done lately besides suck up to our nation's enemy Russia? 😜

That's BS.  The US has spent trillions since WW2 defending the Euro zone.   They need to step up. 

[SiSePuede419]

2 hours ago, TedG said:

That's BS.  The US has spent trillions since WW2 defending the Euro zone

Isn't something that's mostly false considered "B.S."? 😄

 

This statement is mostly false but contains some elements of truth depending on how you interpret it.

 

The U.S. has spent trillions on defense since World War II, and a significant portion of that has been related to defending Europe, primarily during the Cold War through NATO. However, calling it "defending the Euro zone" is misleading because:

 

1. The Eurozone didn't exist until 1999 – The U.S. was defending Western Europe long before the creation of the euro.

2. Cold War Context – The primary reason for U.S. military spending in Europe was to counter the Soviet Union, not to protect the economic interests of the Eurozone.

3. NATO and Collective Defense – The U.S. committed to defending Europe under NATO agreements, but European nations also contributed significantly to their own defense.

4. Costs – While the U.S. has spent trillions on defense since WWII, only a portion of that was directly related to Europe. Much of the spending also covered the Korean War, Vietnam War, Middle East conflicts, and global military operations.

 

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha. 😭

 

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, TedG said:

These alliances that you cherish so much are costing the tax payer a pile of money.  Such as NATO. 

There are costs associated with being the world's largest economy, and being very influential. The creep is now giving up that position of influence and trading it in for some savings. Will that be worth it in the long run?

 

That remains to be seen, but I don't think so.