BREAKING NEWS Seven Dead as Runaway Bus Slams into Trucks and Bursts into Flames

[kwilco]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Pathetic cop out - the question is a valid one and singles out the utter tosh you keep peddling that 'humans are not at fault'... 

 

 

 

so there have been dozens of accidents within a few metres of each other on this road - your theory is that people suddenly become stupid on this stretch? - maybe there something in the air?

how often have you driven this stretch?

[Bangkok Black]

And again, the 304 claims another.

Those coaches I see every day past the moo barn, where I am on the 304.

One broke down the other day, just by Lotus at Khlong Rang. 

 

That section of the 304 is either a coach accident or a truck rollover.

[Sierra Tango]

19 minutes ago, kwilco said:

that kind of sums you up, doesn't it?

No it does not and if you want to keep this discussion going, I am am happy to do so. You obviously know nothing about the subject matter other than what you have managed to dredge up on the internet and have nothing else to sustain your extremely limited point of view. Come on, say something at least semi intelligent and not artificial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bohemianfish]

Putbills and buses. Every day it seems.

[Bohemianfish]

10 hours ago, ronster said:

Yet again !

Week after week , month after month and year upon year the never ending accidents involving buses continues .

Shows how little the government care really when this carries on and on even after the one involving all the children that went on fire .

Reason my wife or family are not allowed on these death traps . I just don't allow it !

I heard it depends on the bus/service? That's what I've heard. We've done the bus thing two or three times over the years, but not on the two-story balsa wood bombs, as they seem to be, but the fancy coaches.

[brfsa2]

I see people saying engine breaking is bad because it heats up the transmission.

 

To correct:

 

True for CVT transmissions, they are they worst you can ever have.

 

Not True for Diesels, with "real" transmission that can handle high torque, Engine breaking cools down the engine quite a lot and is necessary for Diesel. During low gear at high RPM without giving gas, the engine sucks in a a lot of cool air at high speed without combustion. Cooling down significantly the oil. Diesel works best at very high temperatures, the downside is that the oil burns faster.

 

you can observe with an OBD2 adapter or similar dashboards.

 

Sport Mode in the Fortuner models with 500NM also cools down the engine by injecting a lot more fuel at the same RPM, the Boost is so nice and you can really feel that crazy torque. You can say there is no need to ECU tune, just press the sport button.

 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Sierra Tango said:

No it does not and if you want to keep this discussion going,

I said no.

[kwilco]

Every time there's a crash like this, the same old tired, ignorant comments appear—blaming the driver, mocking Thai people, and pretending to be experts on road safety.
There’s no proper investigation, no real crash report—just assumptions and casual racism. Drivers here work brutal hours in unsafe vehicles on dangerous roads, with zero systemic support.
This isn’t about one man’s mistake. It’s a failure of infrastructure, enforcement, and standards.
If you can't offer empathy or informed insight, say nothing.
 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Bohemianfish said:

I heard it depends on the bus/service? That's what I've heard. We've done the bus thing two or three times over the years, but not on the two-story balsa wood bombs, as they seem to be, but the fancy coaches.

these are the ones to avoid!

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, brfsa2 said:

I see people saying engine breaking is bad because it heats up the transmission.

 

To correct:

 

True for CVT transmissions, they are they worst you can ever have.

 

Not True for Diesels, with "real" transmission that can handle high torque, Engine breaking cools down the engine quite a lot and is necessary for Diesel. During low gear at high RPM without giving gas, the engine sucks in a a lot of cool air at high speed without combustion. Cooling down significantly the oil. Diesel works best at very high temperatures, the downside is that the oil burns faster.

 

you can observe with an OBD2 adapter or similar dashboards.

 

Sport Mode in the Fortuner models with 500NM also cools down the engine by injecting a lot more fuel at the same RPM, the Boost is so nice and you can really feel that crazy torque. You can say there is no need to ECU tune, just press the sport button.

 

commercial diesels use exhaust brakes

[Georgealbert]

Toll of Khao San Pu Thon: 11 Years of Deadly Crashes on Route 304

 

 

[wavodavo]

16 hours ago, DualSportBiker said:

It's a pretty badly laid out section of road and often quite busy. It could do with a significant upgrade and some escape tracks for this very purpose.

 

RIP.

Why do people always blame the roads when a serious fatal accidents happen.? How about looking at the actions   of the drivers e.g. Poorly trained, maybe unlicensed , unskilled , affected by drugs or alcohol , talking on mobile phone .driving stints too long without a break also unroadwothy and  poorly maintainrd vehicles . Many of these bus accidents happen in the early hours of the morning so drivers probably nodding off. So don't always blame the roads the driver just has to drive to the conditions.

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why do you suggest that they are not fully investigated?   Got any examples?

Just because we hardly ever read about the results of an investigation does not necessary mean that something hasn't been fully investigated.

This seems to apply to anything in Thailand, not just road fatalities. I am not saying that this is the case but is it possible that the stupid Thai defamation law has anything to do with it?

[DualSportBiker]

7 hours ago, wavodavo said:

Why do people always blame the roads when a serious fatal accidents happen.? How about looking at the actions   of the drivers e.g. Poorly trained, maybe unlicensed , unskilled , affected by drugs or alcohol , talking on mobile phone .driving stints too long without a break also unroadwothy and  poorly maintainrd vehicles . Many of these bus accidents happen in the early hours of the morning so drivers probably nodding off. So don't always blame the roads the driver just has to drive to the conditions.

I am not blaming the road, just highlighting it is an additional factor in this specific case. Why did I leave the rest out, because we are (mostly) all aware of all the other issues that contribute to accidents. There were already a bunch of comments wailing about the same before I joind the party. However, among the contributing factors, road layout is one which is often overlooked. I took a course in Road Traffic Accident Reduction in Emerging Economies with Carnegie Mellon a few years ago. I too was surprised how much road design is a factor. But hey, learning stuff is only for people who don't instinctively know it all already...

[Captain Flack]

Post breaking forum rules has been removed.

 

@kwilco reminder rule 9. You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages. You will respect other members and post in a civil manner. Personal attacks, insults or hate speech posted on the  forum or sent by private message are not allowed.

[kwilco]

10 hours ago, wavodavo said:

Why do people always blame the roads when a serious fatal accidents happen.? How about looking at the actions   of the drivers e.g. Poorly trained, maybe unlicensed , unskilled , affected by drugs or alcohol , talking on mobile phone .driving stints too long without a break also unroadwothy and  poorly maintainrd vehicles . Many of these bus accidents happen in the early hours of the morning so drivers probably nodding off. So don't always blame the roads the driver just has to drive to the conditions.

 

I find this comment quite outdated and overly simplistic. It completely ignores the broader context and real pressures that many drivers face, particularly those working long hours just to make a living. it makes assumptions about the causes of accidents—without referring to the actual crash report—that are speculative and uninformed.

 

Also, sweeping generalisations about Thai drivers being under the influence is not only inaccurate, but, offensive. It unfairly paints an entire group with a negative brush based on assumptions rather than facts. If we want to talk about improving road safety, we should be addressing systemic issues—like working conditions, vehicle regulation enforcement, and infrastructure improvements—alongside driver behavior, not just laying blame in one direction.

Let’s focus on facts, not stereotypes.

[kwilco]

13 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

Just because we hardly ever read about the results of an investigation does not necessary mean that something hasn't been fully investigated.

This seems to apply to anything in Thailand, not just road fatalities. I am not saying that this is the case but is it possible that the stupid Thai defamation law has anything to do with it?

 

Collision reports are a vital part of road safety measures and are usually part of the public domain.
 – have you ever seen anything approaching this in Thailand?
 Proper collision investigation is vital for improving road safety, but in Thailand, the process is often chaotic and ineffective. In contrast to best practices seen in countries like the UK—where scenes are secured, evidence is carefully preserved, and trained specialists conduct in-depth analyses—Thailand’s investigations are frequently left to under-trained local police with minimal equipment or methodology.

A standard investigative approach follows the METHANE protocol:

•    Make the scene safe
•    Establish the facts
•    Treat the injured
•    Hazards and risks
•    Access and egress
•    Notification and Evidence preservation

Sadly, in Thailand, roads are rarely closed off, evidence is quickly lost, and investigations rely heavily on unreliable eyewitness accounts and superficial assessments. There’s minimal use of advanced technology like 3D scanning, drones, or data extraction from vehicles.
As a result, accident reports are rushed, vague, and lack actionable insight. Road hazards remain unaddressed, and the opportunity to learn from each incident is missed. Worse, public discussion often devolves into uninformed, biased commentary rather than constructive analysis.
Thailand has one of the highest road death rates globally—a fact unlikely to change without a shift toward professional, evidence-based collision investigation.
 

[Chris Daley]

Let's see the prime minister's reaction.  Eating candy at a market or entering building and smiling.

[Luuk Chaai]

On 4/21/2025 at 1:16 PM, NorthernRyland said:

 

I see signs all over Thailand saying to use low gear going downhill. Maybe that's just for cars? Doesn't need to the lowest gear but a lower gear helps.

 I had a Honda Accord 2014 back in the US ran it for 105k miles .. now my son drives it ... and now have a Honda Civic 2017 ..    both with CVT Transmissions

I grew up with manual transmissions so shifting is second nature to me

Tha mechanics at Honda PranBuri looked at me with confusion and surprise when the did an insection and said my brakes were in great shape

I told them I use the CVT   it was deer in the headlights time

[outsider]

On 4/21/2025 at 10:59 PM, billd766 said:

Rubbish.

 

I used to take the National Transport Company bus  from the local village to Bangkok. some 350 odd km, for years and had no problem. That was either the lower deck of a 1 1/2 deck bus, or the single deck bus without any problems.

 

How many times have you taken an inter provincial bus?

 

I don't, for precisely this reason. It's not how many times I've taken it, it's that ONE time when something happens. Anyway, it's just a matter of choice. To each his/her own, right? Safe travels mate - whatever mode of transport we choose.

[Bangkok Black]

On 4/22/2025 at 1:57 AM, kwilco said:

these are the ones to avoid!

Yes !

Usually to be found in a convoy of up to 10 others all driving in the outside lane, refusing to move over and spewing large clouds of black smoke.

[Will B Good]

Just now, Bangkok Black said:

Yes !

Usually to be found in a convoy of up to 10 others all driving in the outside lane, refusing to move over and spewing large clouds of black smoke.

 

.....and one of them is 90%  loudspeakers........absolutely deafening....and I'm nearly deaf.

[Bangkok Black]

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

.....and one of them is 90%  loudspeakers........absolutely deafening....and I'm nearly deaf.

Yes i forgot to add that

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Black said:

Yes !

Usually to be found in a convoy of up to 10 others all driving in the outside lane, refusing to move over and spewing large clouds of black smoke.

quite apart from the smoke, they are "home built" - they look beautiful and the insides are glorious but they are not built for safety - they are sheet metal panels on timber frame on a old or second-handchassis that is often lengthened. They are meant to pass a ?tilt test" but enforcement is slack. 

Passengers are encouraged to mover around like they do on a plane.

Most are converted to run on NGP system which is less efficient than straight diesel - hence the smoke.

A few years ago I did a 3 day tour in one courtesy of a customs and excise dept.... it was fantastic, but the bus itself was unnerving.

[richard_smith237]

On 4/21/2025 at 10:56 PM, kwilco said:

so there have been dozens of accidents within a few metres of each other on this road - your theory is that people suddenly become stupid on this stretch? - maybe there something in the air?

how often have you driven this stretch?

 

There are a multitude more people driving down that road that don't have an accident...    

 

What exactly are 'you blaming' regarding engineering the road ? the incline ?

 

Could the incident have been avoided IF the driver remained in low gear and didn't overheat the brakes - IF that is the cause ?

 

Road are far more dangerous in the Alps, sharper turns, deadly drops into ravines, steep inclines, yet we don't get this 'frequent' brake failure that we do in Thailand - why is that ?

 

Maintenance ? or poor driving standard of busses ? it can't always be the roads fault - human error is the primary factor whether you like to use the word blame or not.

 

As you pointed out, drivers being too tired, that may well be a facet too...   but even tired drivers know to use a low gear.... 

 

.... so it still comes down to poor driving standards that incidents such as these are occurring with such frequency.

 

 

 

[kwilco]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

There are a multitude more people driving down that road that don't have an accident...    

 

What exactly are 'you blaming' regarding engineering the road ? the incline ?

 

Could the incident have been avoided IF the driver remained in low gear and didn't overheat the brakes - IF that is the cause ?

 

Road are far more dangerous in the Alps, sharper turns, deadly drops into ravines, steep inclines, yet we don't get this 'frequent' brake failure that we do in Thailand - why is that ?

 

Maintenance ? or poor driving standard of busses ? it can't always be the roads fault - human error is the primary factor whether you like to use the word blame or not.

 

As you pointed out, drivers being too tired, that may well be a facet too...   but even tired drivers know to use a low gear.... 

 

.... so it still comes down to poor driving standards that incidents such as these are occurring with such frequency.

 

 

 

so you don't understand statistics? or you think the road has some supernatural quaity? - Sure, any fool knows most drivers make it through — just like most planes land safely. But when crashes cluster in one spot, it’s not a coincidence, it’s a red flag. Good roads are designed to forgive mistakes, not punish them with fatalities. Blaming tired or undertrained drivers in a system that sets them up to fail doesn’t solve the problem — it just excuses it." Or in simple terms - If a road keeps killing people, it's not a test — it's a trap. Blaming drivers while ignoring crap design is like blaming flood victims for not swimming better.

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, kwilco said:

so you don't understand statistics? or you think the road has some supernatural quaity? - Sure, any fool knows most drivers make it through — just like most planes land safely. But when crashes cluster in one spot, it’s not a coincidence, it’s a red flag. Good roads are designed to forgive mistakes, not punish them with fatalities. Blaming tired or undertrained drivers in a system that sets them up to fail doesn’t solve the problem — it just excuses it." Or in simple terms - If a road keeps killing people, it's not a test — it's a trap. Blaming drivers while ignoring crap design is like blaming flood victims for not swimming better.

 

Its a hill...  what else should they do to the road ??  they can't make it flat.

 

Put up a sign that say' 'use low gear'   ???

 

How would you redesign that road so that 'some' drivers of trucks and busses who fail to go into a low gear don't over heat their brakes and crash ?