Follow up on closed topic WRLive still ok?

[bubblegum]

Today I received my renewal and along with it came the new policy. THIS IS NOT the same one as the original. In said topic we discussed the changes in waiting time for degenerative diseases. Here is the text:

 

Specific diseases: Hypertension & Cardiovascular Disease, All Tumors, Polyp or Cyst, Hemorrhoids, Prostate Disease, Diabetes, Cancer, Endometriosis, Cholecystitis, Cholelithiasis, Calculi of the Urinary Organ. Always 6 months waiting period in any case (1 year waiting period for Hernias) Degenerative diseases: Alzheimer's disease (AD), Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease), Charcot–Marie–Tooth disease (CMT), Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, Cystic fibrosis, Some cytochrome c oxidase deficiencies (often the cause of degenerative Leigh syndrome), Ehlers Danlos syndrome, Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressive, Friedreich's ataxia, Frontotemporal dementia (FTD), Huntington's disease, Infantile neuroaxonal dystrophy, Keratoconus (KC), Keratoglobus, Leukodystrophies, Macular degeneration (AMD), Marfan's syndrome (MFS), Some mitochondrial myopathies, Mitochondrial DNA depletion syndrome, Mueller–Weiss syndrome, Multiple sclerosis (MS), Multiple system atrophy, Muscular dystrophies (MD), Neuronal ceroid lipofuscinosis, Niemann–Pick diseases, Osteoarthritis, Osteoporosis, Parkinson's disease, Pulmonary arterial hypertension, All prion diseases (Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, fatal familial insomnia etc.)Progressive supranuclear palsy, Retinitis pigmentosa (RP), Rheumatoid arthritis, Sandhoff Disease, Spinal muscular atrophy (SMA, motor neuron disease), Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, Substance Use Disorder, Tay–Sachs disease, Vascular dementia (might not itself be neurodegenerative, but often appears alongside other forms of degenerative dementia). Always 5 years waiting period in any case.

 

I'm in contact with the CEO who tell me I have his word it does not apply to me. "So send a correct policy" I replied. Still waiting.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

I'm quite sure that the OIC here in Thailand would not allow an insurer to add new exclusions at renewal unless the insured had failed to disclose a pre-existing condition in the original proposal. While I have no idea what the regulator on Nevis would or would not allow, it would certainly be unusual for a reputable insurer to do so.

 

I suspect that the intent of WRLife is to apply this new exclusion only on first policies issued after a certain date and this wording would not be applicable to renewals of policies issued prior to the introduction of the new wording. You are correct to request written evidence of this, preferably in the form of an endorsement to the policy itself. Keep your old policies so you could prove what the original terms and conditions were when you first obtained cover.

[brewsterbudgen]

This has been covered in another thread.  I'll try to find the link, unless someone else can find it more quickly.  If I remember rightly there was an explanation from the company.  I am a policy holder and my broker queried this with them at the time of my renewal, to both of our satisfaction.

[Henk Langeweg]

WrLife told me this change only applies to new members or when you change the subscription yourself, even when you go from yearly payment to monthly payment, they will declare that as a new policy with a new member number. When you had your contract starting a few years ago without interruption then the policy stays the same as when you applied.

[bubblegum]

This is a simple renewal, no change at all. AA Insurance is now looking into it. In the last topic (I think it was started by @Henk Langeweg) some was clarified but the wordings in the policy refer to coverage. Not new nor renewed coverage. Just coverage.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

Keep a full audit trail of documents so if you have to fly to Nevis after a large claim denied you have the evidence

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

12 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

This is a simple renewal, no change at all. AA Insurance is now looking into it. In the last topic (I think it was started by @Henk Langeweg) some was clarified but the wordings in the policy refer to coverage. Not new nor renewed coverage. Just coverage.

 

 

 

I think it would also be interesting to ask AA Brokers to request copies of audited financial statements from WRLife.

[jerrymahoney]

17 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Keep a full audit trail of documents so if you have to fly to Nevis after a large claim denied you have the evidence

Thanks. My fake Thai wife has always wanted to visit the Caribbean.

[Henk Langeweg]

17 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I think it would also be interesting to ask AA Brokers to request copies of audited financial statements from WRLife.

Don't make the mistake that Brokers has an updated knowledge or understanding of the Insurer. For the more complicated things better contact WrLife directly.

[howerde]

18 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I'm quite sure that the OIC here in Thailand would not allow an insurer to add new exclusions at renewal unless the insured had failed to disclose a pre-existing condition in the original proposal. While I have no idea what the regulator on Nevis would or would not allow, it would certainly be unusual for a reputable insurer to do so.

 

I suspect that the intent of WRLife is to apply this new exclusion only on first policies issued after a certain date and this wording would not be applicable to renewals of policies issued prior to the introduction of the new wording. You are correct to request written evidence of this, preferably in the form of an endorsement to the policy itself. Keep your old policies so you could prove what the original terms and conditions were when you first obtained cover.

They can i have personal experience of this i had a Thai insurance policy linked to my visa  (so a well known company), after a small claim that they tried to wriggle out of (my doctor phoned them), then 3 months before my renewal. my hospital emailed me to say the insurance company wanted to see my medical records, i agreed. Then at renewal not only had my policy gone up 80%, they they added a load of exclusions for things i did not have and still don't have, it was as if they were looking at someone elses

medical records, i phoned them and they just said you have gone up a band as for the exclusions they would say nothing, my claim was for burnt tissue, a foot spa put neat acid on my feet despite me warning them, of course they had no 3rd party liability, 

I did consider phoning the regulator, but thought the insurance company would simply refuse to pay out on any claims 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Just now, Henk Langeweg said:

Don't make the mistake that Brokers has an updated knowledge or understanding of the Insurer. For the more complicated things better contact WrLife directly.

 

When I was an insurance broker, my company had a procedure for onboarding insurers with whom we could place business. It included an analysis of their financial statements as well as a general assessment of their overall reputation in the marketplace. Obviously if an insurer refused to supply copies of their financials, they wouldn't be approved for use.

 

Every once in a while we would get a request from a client to place their business with an insurer that hadn't been vetted. In such cases, we would make the client sign a "chicken letter" that stated that the insurer had not been reviewed and approved by our firm, but that if the client wished, we wold make the placement at their direction with the explicit disclaimer of any responsibility for the insurer's performance or financial integrity. We did this even though an insurance broker isn't usually legally responsible for the financial security of an insurer.

 

There's nothing wrong with asking your insurance broker to obtain copies of an insurer's audited financials. There is something wrong if the broker refuses to request them or if the insurer refused to provide them. If your insurance broker is indifferent to the integrity of the insurers it works with, then you're quite possibly using the wrong insurance broker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

33 minutes ago, howerde said:

They can i have personal experience of this i had a Thai insurance policy linked to my visa  (so a well known company), after a small claim that they tried to wriggle out of (my doctor phoned them), then 3 months before my renewal. my hospital emailed me to say the insurance company wanted to see my medical records, i agreed. Then at renewal not only had my policy gone up 80%, they they added a load of exclusions for things i did not have and still don't have, it was as if they were looking at someone elses

medical records, i phoned them and they just said you have gone up a band as for the exclusions they would say nothing, my claim was for burnt tissue, a foot spa put neat acid on my feet despite me warning them, of course they had no 3rd party liability, 

I did consider phoning the regulator, but thought the insurance company would simply refuse to pay out on any claims 

 

If the insurance company based the exclusions on incorrect information, then the regulator would probably have required the insurer to remove the exclusions and pay your claim.

 

I have advised in the past that anyone when first applying for health insurance should submit all of their medical records along with the proposal form. While this is not required, it can avert lots of problems later on. In fact, the lack of a requirement to do so is actually kind of a trap that often gives the insurer a get-out-of-jail card for use later on.

 

Quite often there will be test results or doctors' notes in our medical files that may indicate a condition, but one which the doctor has not expressly pointed out to us. Sometimes the threshold for an insurer to apply an exclusion is below the level at which a doctor would raise an issue with the patient, especially if the doctor was focused on something more significant when the patient presents. A doctor's view of what may be clinically significant at the time may be different from an insurer's view as to what may constitute a pre-existing condition. We also may not always know or understand what is in our records and how an insurer might view them.

[jerrymahoney]

As noted on a recent topic, Bumrungrad Hospital lists Assist International Services (AIS) -- who is the claims manager for WrLife -- as having a Direct Billing Contract with Bumrungrad.

Presumably they have had a peek at AIS finances.

[Hummin]

WRLilve seems to create more questions than answers all over the web, so therefor I never signed up with them in the first place. Years after still see this comes up regularly also in social media. 

 

Seems users have a wide mixed experiences, more than any other established insurance broker/company

 

AA used to give reliable advises, and if I was going to sign up, it had to be through them. 

[bkk6060]

The fact the OP said he spoke with the CEO would keep me away. Is he the only employee?

[jerrymahoney]

18 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I think it would also be interesting to ask AA Brokers to request copies of audited financial statements from WRLife.

From the AA Broker website:

 

.We provide reliable, affordable health insurance solutions tailored to your needs. Our expert team ensures your policy aligns with Thai OCI regulations, offering peace of mind and personalised protection. 

 

-- in other words, domestic Thai insurers only.

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

53 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

From the AA Broker website:

 

.We provide reliable, affordable health insurance solutions tailored to your needs. Our expert team ensures your policy aligns with Thai OCI regulations, offering peace of mind and personalised protection. 

 

-- in other words, domestic Thai insurers only.

 

 

 

The OP appears to be using AA Insurance Brokers to look into this issue, howver.

[jerrymahoney]

I think it would be interesting to hear the reply from AA when asked to obtain an audited WrLife financial statement when -- as best I understand it since I do not use brokers -- they can no longer work with non-Thai insurers

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

14 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I think it would be interesting to hear the reply from AA when asked to obtain an audited WrLife financial statement when -- as best I understand it since I do not use brokers -- they can no longer work with non-Thai insurers

 

Technically, AA has always been restricted by OIC regulations to using insurers licensed and regulated by the OIC. But asking for financials does not constitute placing business with an offshore insurer and therefore would not constitute a breach.

 

I doubt AA or any other party would receive audited statements in any event, but I would be happy to be proved wrong.

[jerrymahoney]

I doubt that your doubt is incorrect.

I remember someone was considering using WrLife and you suggested they ask the insurer for their A.M. Best statement.

Cute.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

18 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I doubt that your doubt is incorrect.

I remember someone was considering using WrLife and you suggested they ask the insurer for their A.M. Best statement.

Cute.

 

Yes, I certainly believe it is in a person's best interest to determine whether their insurer is financially sound.

 

AM Best ratings can be found online, but AM Best doesn't provide one for WRLife.

[jerrymahoney]

Yes, and you knew that when you told that fellow online to ask anyway.