Daytrading Thai Stocks

[20yearsinthai]

Anyone daytrading thai stocks?

Appartantly we are free more or less to invest in thai securities including some decent divdend paying companies. Would be interested to hear anyones experience with this

[Dancali]

Are you talking about investing or day-trading?

They are quite different activities as I'm sure you know.

There is essentially 0 evidence that one can consistently somehow predict the daily behavior of stocks to make a profit. It's a losing game as you flip a coin and get charged the brokerage fee/commision every time you flip it.

[20yearsinthai]

Are you talking about investing or day-trading?

They are quite different activities as I'm sure you know.

There is essentially 0 evidence that one can consistently somehow predict the daily behavior of stocks to make a profit. It's a losing game as you flip a coin and get charged the brokerage fee/commision every time you flip it.

im talking about both. At central lard prao the other day there were about 10 differnent companies trying to sell their online trading services. basically you have access to stocks ,bonds etc securities availble on the SET and do not have to "daytrade". But i was suprised in that software offered was suited for serious daytrading.

Some companies are paying 7% dividends. Did not check bond yields but must be much bettter than what we get in our saving accounts. yes i am aware of extra risks.

[dingfishingtours]

Some companies are paying 7% dividends. Did not check bond yields but must be much bettter than what we get in our saving accounts. yes i am aware of extra risks.

If you are concerned about dividends your money would probably be safer in other more regulated markets such as the London stock exchange.Excellent yields are available.eg Lloyds bank is now yielding 8.75% at todays share price of 394p.Looking at the SET,anything owned by Shinawatra family should be a safe investment while he's still PM anyways.

I keep putting off opening a Thai trading account.I know too many Thai people heavily in debt because their banks encourage them to borrow or remortgage their houses/land seemingly without thought to how this money will be paid back?If Thai interest rates were to rise significantly we would have an interesting situation.

Good luck if you take the plunge.

[Rascal]

I've had a trading account for a couple of years and it's worked out really well. Of course things have been slower this year, but overall, I'm well up. There are many companies listed that pay dividends consistently. Earlier in the year, Minor (14 Baht) paid a dividend of 1 baht per share. Not bad, huh?

If you just want information or considering an account, try talking to Ms. Chayanin at 01-8024495. She's with Asset Plus and is very knowledgeable. She handles many Farang's accounts. Don't go with the stocks that a handful of Thai/Chinese players speculate with. Go with 'blue chips' and other co.s that have been consistently paying dividends over the years.

[20yearsinthai]

I've had a trading account for a couple of years and it's worked out really well. Of course things have been slower this year, but overall, I'm well up. There are many companies listed that pay dividends consistently. Earlier in the year, Minor (14 Baht) paid a dividend of 1 baht per share. Not bad, huh?

If you just want information or considering an account, try talking to Ms. Chayanin at 01-8024495. She's with Asset Plus and is very knowledgeable. She handles many Farang's accounts. Don't go with the stocks that a handful of Thai/Chinese players speculate with. Go with 'blue chips' and other co.s that have been consistently paying dividends over the years.

Thanks for the info rascal!!

I 'll probably open an acount within the next few months. The next thing well need is a forum for discussing individual stocks, stategies, etc..

I also assume that account balances can can be used for visa requirement purposes??

[Dancali]

If there's a forum for individual stock strategies, etc. you can be sure I'll be there. But don't take offense if I become the resident skeptic .

[20yearsinthai]

If there's a forum for individual stock strategies, etc. you can be sure I'll be there. But don't take offense if I become the resident skeptic .

In this business skepticism is always welcome. A forum to share information on what we're buying these days, and for what reasons etc.. might be useful. i.e stocs that always have preearnings release runups etc...,

[OldAsiaHand]

Historically something like 70%-80% of the daily volume going through the SET is net settlement trading, the Thai version of day trading. The little old Chinese ladies (and more than a few little old Chinese men) buy stocks in the morning and sell them in the afternoon. They are then permitted by the broker to net out their positions for that day, and when settlement day arrives, they either pay only the amount of any losses or collect the amount of any gains. You could describe the process as zero capital day trading.

The SET has been trying various adjustments in their rules for some time to try and cut down on the volume of net settlement transactions without completely screwing the SET. That's not easy since the net settlement volume is certainly a major market driver, if not THE major market driver.

Oh yeah. Before you get too revved up, I should also tell you that net settlement is only permitted for Thais, not us foreigners. Surprise, huh?

[Dutchy2]

Oh yeah. Before you get too revved up, I should also tell you that net settlement is only permitted for Thais, not us foreigners. Surprise, huh?

he he, very interesting, nationalistic sentiment in Stock trading in Thailand. The Thais aim to prevent that foreign elements effect the stability of the SET too much. If they s*** up again they can only blame themselves for it.

It's not from the 20th century anymore to ban foreigners from trading at a national stockmarket...

[simon43]

Can a Thai ltd company trade on the SET using net-settlement??

[20yearsinthai]

Historically something like 70%-80% of the daily volume going through the SET is net settlement trading, the Thai version of day trading. The little old Chinese ladies (and more than a few little old Chinese men) buy stocks in the morning and sell them in the afternoon. They are then permitted by the broker to net out their positions for that day, and when settlement day arrives, they either pay only the amount of any losses or collect the amount of any gains. You could describe the process as zero capital day trading.

The SET has been trying various adjustments in their rules for some time to try and cut down on the volume of net settlement transactions without completely screwing the SET. That's not easy since the net settlement volume is certainly a major market driver, if not THE major market driver.

Oh yeah. Before you get too revved up, I should also tell you that net settlement is only permitted for Thais, not us foreigners. Surprise, huh?

Ok

So whats the difference when a falong buys a stock in the morning and sell it in the afternoon?

[hankamazon]

yes actually lots of foreigners do stocks here. lots of them do short tems trading. i can tell you that in thailand not too many people hold their stocks too long. people buy on the mood and rumour, not on the strength and potential of the stocks. last year was such a good year SET soared from 400 to all the way 800. lots of people double or triple or quatriple their money. lots lots of short time traders. lots of stocks up 6-7 times in a period of 6 months. but things are very slow this year. SET dropped from peak of 800 to now 650 or so and struggling to hold at 650., actually lots of stocks sliced under half price from their peak. the direction this year is still very unclear. but if you play stocks last year, most people made money. either short time or long term, most people made money last year. but this year very very slow. the excitement of SET has gone this year.

the best brokearge house are Seamico(zmico), Kim Eng (kest), great all english websites and chat sites, all english on line trading, all english statements, even you call in ,all brokers speak good english. there are lots lots of other brokerages, but i recommend these 2. lots of farang customers use this 2 brokerages.

[Dutchy2]

the best brokearge house are Seamico(zmico), Kim Eng (kest), great all english websites and chat sites, all english on line trading, all english statements, even you call in ,all brokers speak good english. there are lots lots of other brokerages, but i recommend these 2. lots of farang customers use this 2 brokerages.

There's a large list of brokers on the Set's website, it's worth checking around a lil bit. Some of them cater predominantly for Thai nationals and don't even bother preparing an English language website.

[Rascal]

Oh yeah. Before you get too revved up, I should also tell you that net settlement is only permitted for Thais, not us foreigners. Surprise, huh?

Ok

So whats the difference when a falong buys a stock in the morning and sell it in the afternoon?

Farangs can buy stocks in the morning and sell them in the afternoon. Overall, if you made money trading on that particular day, they will pay you the balance between what was bought and sold in four working days. If you lost money, they will debit the balance from your account in three working days. So it's pretty much the same deal. A trading company allows you three working days before they debit your account for stocks you bought, and they allow themselves four working days before they pay you for stocks sold .

[OldAsiaHand]

No, that's actually not the case.

The difference is this: if a foreigner wants to buy a block of stock worth one million baht, he is supposed to have one million baht in his account at the time of purchase in order to pay for it on settlement day (unless your broker is willing to overlook that and lie for you if his providing a margin facility to a foreigner is ever questioned). Thais need only to provide whatever margin (usually zero) that the brokerage house is willing to accept as a guarantee against losses.

A remarkable number of these Thai net settlement transactions involve traders who do tens, even hundreds of millions of baht in daily volume. One broker I know claimed to have once had a client who would occasionally do a billion baht a day. If you want to play at a level where real money can be made, you're either going to have to have a lot of capital or a very cooperative broker (or both). A Thai national doesn't actually need any capital and is far more likely to find a cooperative broker. It's a big difference.

[20yearsinthai]

No, that's actually not the case.

The difference is this: if a foreigner wants to buy a block of stock worth one million baht, he is supposed to have one million baht in his account at the time of purchase in order to pay for it on settlement day (unless your broker is willing to overlook that and lie for you if his providing a margin facility to a foreigner is ever questioned). Thais need only to provide whatever margin (usually zero) that the brokerage house is willing to accept as a guarantee against losses.

A remarkable number of these Thai net settlement transactions involve traders who do tens, even hundreds of millions of baht in daily volume. One broker I know claimed to have once had a client who would occasionally do a billion baht a day. If you want to play at a level where real money can be made, you're either going to have to have a lot of capital or a very cooperative broker (or both). A Thai national doesn't actually need any capital and is far more likely to find a cooperative broker. It's a big difference.

Interesting. One company told me that if I put in 100K I could buy stocks worth up to 1 Million. Maybe the saleswoman did not know that it did not apply to falong.

[Butterfly]

If there's a forum for individual stock strategies, etc. you can be sure I'll be there. But don't take offense if I become the resident skeptic .

I know someone who is about to open a dedicated forum for farangs willing to trade in Thailand.

Send me a PM for information and interests.

I will work with him on the project so we will need to have moderators, admins, advisers etc...

The more people, the better

[Nathan@Thaistocks]

Recently posted at Thaistocks.com on the broker issue:

Thai brokers for the most part act irresponsible with many individual investors as they turn most investment accounts into pure trading accounts -regardless what the investor stated investment objective is.

They mostly push relentless day trading, often o­n stocks with no earnings and/or poor future prospects. They are graph and liquidity obsessed instead of investment respect for solid values. When a stock goes down they blame the SET, rather than their unprofessional casino strategy. As just o­ne example, Thai brokers do not allow two separate broker accounts -forcing individuals to co-mingle investing with trading, thereby violating the most basic of all rules in this business.

The Thai stock exchange has an immense selection of deep values and high dividend income stocks, the problem is most brokers ignore these just to trade, trade, trade. Hence the best local values remain such values, which often remain unnoticed by investors.

When will the SET/SEC and other regulators shake-up and wake up, and demand a higher professional standard?

[ray23]

I got started with Thaistiocks.com about six weeks ago. no complaints. model portfolio has held it's own through real turmoil. I had no idea how to invest and accidentally found it doing a search for education. Paul who owns the site is not a day trader. Best suited to the mid term investor. He does the research to include visits to the businesses in many cases.

Recommends stocks based on good research everything he has recommended does pay dividends. Six weeks is a short period, But this six weeks have been very negative so far. To date I have not lost one baht and for the majority of that six weeks I was up as much as 4%. Only one day in that time did I not beat the current bank rate of 1/2%

Sadly the site is going through a server change and not available yet. Take a look when you have time.

[ExpatJ]

I got started with Thaistiocks.com about six weeks ago. no complaints. model portfolio has held it's own through real turmoil. I had no idea how to invest and accidentally found it doing a search for education. Paul who owns the site is not a day trader. Best suited to the mid term investor. He does the research to include visits to the businesses in many cases.

Recommends stocks based on good research everything he has recommended does pay dividends. Six weeks is a short period, But this six weeks have been very negative so far. To date I have not lost one baht and for the majority of that six weeks I was up as much as 4%. Only one day in that time did I not beat the current bank rate of 1/2%

Sadly the site is going through a server change and not available yet. Take a look when you have time.

Hi Ray

Yes it been a tough 2-3 weeks on the SET- most of my stocks now down, but good news is that these same stocks paid their dividend during the same period- so for those i am about even which is not bad given the big drops...Im very confident in the mid term (next few weeks/months) that thing will pick up again.

[ray23]

Well that was pretty much the same for me. But, one of the portfolio that Paul recommended sky rocketed today. I have no idea why. It's in Natural gas, been a steady gainer all along. So I went from a negative yesterday to positive of 4.55% today. I'm just working with the ideas Paul gave the members. I'm to new to this to know why. I have received notice of dividends to be paid, from twp companies do far.

[ray23]

Being new some things I think I see may not be accurate. I watched the market here for several months before I was able to find thaistocks. It seems to me the market in the states does effect the Thai market for short periods.

Also starting small has created a situation where I need to accumalate based on my available money at the time. Hence many times I have missed the best buy time a few times. Hana is one of this times, so I just got into the profit area on it Thursday. I want add to that stock now.

Getting the timing right for a buy, can be touch and go for me.

Thursday was a great day for US Stocks, Friday wasn't. The reduction in Spain's credit rating seemed to bring out, the Euro Woes again.

Am I seeing things correctly?

In any event I will watch Hana very carefully Monday.

I noticed that in Pauls letter the Thai Stock market was down in Thaland last month. My portfolio actually ended 6.90% up. That is very encouraging.

[teletiger]

I find Paul's resemblance to Michael Douglas disturbing. (Wall St) Mind he doesn't "rip 'yer lungs out".

'But I wouldn't mind having a go at his lady.

Regards.

[ray23]

:D Micheal Douglas hadn't thought of that

As to his lady I will leave that to you and Paul.

Me I'm pleased with the results

[teletiger]

I was referring to Catherine Zeta Jones. You didn't think I was referring to Paul's......No, no.

Regards.

[ray23]

I was referring to Catherine Zeta Jones. You didn't think I was referring to Paul's......No, no.

Regards.

Oh her me too

Well in everyone's life a little rain must fall. Down day in all the markets world wide and Thailand was no exception.

So long story short lost about 1200 baht of profit.

But just like I said when my profit was going up, it's just one day and it's the end of the year that really matters.

I knew to expect days like this, so I'm still pleased. If it eats into my principal then I will be concerned, no huge losses in any one stock. The market was down and so was my portfolio. Still nothing down 10%

[ray23]

So where did the losses come from today. maybe this.

"Asia Stocks Fall on China’s Manufacturing Report; Ringgit Drops

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By Linus Chua and Saeromi Shin

June 1 (Bloomberg) -- Asian stocks fell, extending the biggest monthly decline since October 2008, and emerging-market currencies weakened after Chinese manufacturing growth slowed more than estimated. The euro dropped after consumer confidence in the region declined.

The MSCI Asia Pacific Index sank 0.8 percent to 112.54 as of 4:07 p.m. in Tokyo. The Stoxx Europe 600 lost 0.9 percent to 242.90. The Malaysian ringgit and copper slid, while the euro weakened against the yen and the dollar. Futures on the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index decreased 0.3 percent.

Chinese manufacturing expanded at a slower pace in May, raising concern the world’s fastest-growing major economy is losing steam. The European Commission said yesterday its gauge of executive and consumer sentiment in the 16 nations using the euro fell last month, while a separate report today may show the unemployment rate increased in Italy.

“There seems to be a worry that China’s strong economic expansion may be held back, and that may affect countries that depend heavily on China’s demand,” said Lim Chang Gue, a fund manager at Samsung Asset Management in Seoul, which manages $30 billion. “Also, if economic figures in troubled European countries turn out to be clearly deteriorating, that could add anxiety to the markets.”

More than two stocks fell for every one that rose on the MSCI Asia Pacific Index. The measure lost 9.8 percent in May, the biggest monthly drop since the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. more than 18 months ago.

China’s Manufacturing

China’s Purchasing Managers’ Index dropped to 53.9 from 55.7 in April, seasonally adjusted, the Federation of Logistics and Purchasing said, less than the median 54.5 estimate in a Bloomberg News survey of 18 economists.

Japan’s Nikkei 225 Stock Average declined 0.6 percent on concern the nation’s political instability may slow the economic recovery, while South Korea’s Kospi index lost 0.7 percent as the country’s inflation accelerated in May. Australia’s S&P/ASX 200 Index slid 0.4 percent.

Toyota Motor Corp., which gets 71 percent of its revenue outside Japan, slipped 0.5 percent. Sony Corp., which gets 69 percent of its sales outside Japan, dropped 1 percent. A stronger yen reduces the value of overseas sales at Japanese companies when repatriated.

Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama said he will consider his political future and do “what’s best for the people of Japan” after polls showed four in five voters want him to step down six weeks before mid-term elections.

Hitachi

Hitachi Ltd. slumped 3.5 percent. President Hiroaki Nakanishi said the “financial confusion in Europe is affecting various parts of our business,” the Financial Times reported, citing an interview.

Utilities gained after Goldman Sachs Group Inc. upgraded its recommendation on Japan’s power industry to “neutral” from “cautious,” saying current valuations are “reasonable.” Tokyo Electric Power Co. jumped 4.3 percent after Goldman Sachs boosted its rating to “buy” from “neutral.”

The Malaysian ringgit weakened 0.8 percent to 3.2887 per dollar, the most in a week, following the manufacturing report from China, the nation’s biggest overseas market. The South Korean won slid 1.2 percent to 1,216.18 per dollar.

“This could be the first sign of China feeling the slowdown in Europe,” said Wan Suhaimi Saidi, an economist at Kenanga Investment Bank Bhd. in Kuala Lumpur. “You can’t expect super-strong currency appreciation in the second half.”

Euro, Aussie

The euro weakened against 10 of 16 major counterparts, extending its longest monthly decline against the dollar in 10 years, after the index of executive and consumer sentiment in the nations sharing the euro tumbled. The euro fell to as low as $1.2245 in Tokyo from $1.2306 yesterday in New York. The common currency declined to as weak as 111.33 yen from 112.31 yen. The Aussie dollar sank as much as 0.9 percent to 83.84 U.S. cents.

The Australian dollar weakened for a third day after the nation’s central bank left interest rates unchanged. The currency fell 0.8 percent to 83.91 U.S. cents from 84.59 cents in New York yesterday and 83.65 cents before the rate decision.

Joblessness in Italy, Europe’s fourth-biggest economy, grew to a seasonally adjusted 8.9 percent in April from 8.8 percent the previous month, according to a Bloomberg News survey of economists before Istat releases the data today.

Copper tumbled as metals extended their decline on the reports from China, the world’s biggest metals consumer. Copper for three-month delivery fell 2.4 percent to $6,770 a metric ton.

The cost of insuring Asia-Pacific bonds from non-payment rose, according to traders of credit-default swaps. The Markit iTraxx Japan index increased 7 basis points to 144 basis points, according to Morgan Stanley prices, and the Markit iTraxx Asia index of 50 investment-grade borrowers outside Japan rose 9 basis points to 144, according to Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc.

To contact the reporters on this story: Linus Chua at [email protected]; Saeromi Shin in Seoul at [email protected].

Last Updated: June 1, 2010 03:07 EDT "

[ray23]

Well lets see what today brings, different view then yesterday on emerging markets. I think this a good example of why can't panic over the doom and gloom group. A day or a month one way or another simply doesn't make you an investor. Day trading I think really got to know what your doing. I think it would be a huge mistake after the research is done, to invest in any business, that you don't believe is a quality business. My hats off to guys who can do day trading I am beginning to understand just how complicated that is.

Emerging Markets ‘Past the Worst’, Van Agtmael Says (Update1)

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By Shiyin Chen and Rishaad Salamat

June 2 (Bloomberg) -- Developing-nation stocks are probably “past the worst point” for the year as a slowdown in global economic growth won’t result in a return to recession, according to investor Antoine van Agtmael.

“In terms of the economy, the next three quarters will be slower than the past two quarters but no double dip,” said van Agtmael, who coined the term “emerging markets.” “In emerging markets, we are already past the worst point of this year.”

Easing growth and the effects of Europe’s debt crisis on exports and monetary policy mean there will be a “ceiling” on gains in emerging markets, van Agtmael, chairman and chief investment officer of Emerging Markets Management LLC, said in an interview with Bloomberg Television.

The MSCI Emerging Markets Index has fallen 8.7 percent this year, as signs of slowing growth in China and a spread in Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis hurt demand for riskier assets. The index has dropped 8.5 percent since van Agtmael said on March 16 developing-nation shares may decline or increase as much as 20 percent this year because they are fairly valued and require a “breather” after last year’s record rally. The measure fell 0.3 percent to 904.09 at 9:47 a.m. in Shanghai.

The current slowdown in China is also “expected” given the pace of recovery and efforts to curb overheating in the property market, van Agtmael said. China’s purchasing managers’ index released yesterday showed manufacturing expanded at a slower pace than estimated in May, adding to concern that the world’s third-largest economy may decelerate.

China’s Growth

China won’t be significantly hurt by the sovereign-debt problems in southern Europe because the nation is “too big” and its domestic economy is “too important,” he said.

“I don’t think that the problems in southern Europe are going to do a huge economy like China in,” he said in the interview. “If we were to see a true double dip, and I don’t believe in a double dip, then obviously we would have a problem and things would slow down, not collapse, in China.”

Europe is China’s biggest export destination, making up 20 percent of total overseas sales. European Union leaders unveiled an almost $1 trillion loan package last month to halt the slide in the euro and local bonds that threatened to shatter the currency union after Greece’s budget deficit expanded to almost 14 percent of gross domestic product, exceeding the EU’s 3 percent limit without penalty.

Still, van Agtmael expects smaller markets in Southeast Asia, Africa and the Middle East to perform better than Brazil, Russia, India and China, the four largest developing countries commonly known as BRICs, because they didn’t rise as much last year and because investors are less familiar with those nations.

‘Mortar Between the BRICs’

“This isn’t going to be the year of the BRICs,” van Agtmael said. “I actually like what I call the mortar between the BRICs.”

These include Indonesia, which is the most attractive among Southeast Asian markets, the investor said. He also said Thai stocks are also looking “relative attractive” even with the prospect of further political instability.

Van Agtmael, a former World Bank official and author of “The Emerging Markets Century,” coined the phrase “emerging markets” in 1981. Before then, such economies were widely known as “Third World.”

Developing nations should account for at least 25 percent to 28 percent of investors’ stock portfolios, compared with the 13 percent recommended by MSCI Inc., van Agtmael said. That’s because MSCI excludes China’s yuan-denominated share markets and the Middle East and as developing economies expand.

“Don’t forget, emerging markets are now a third of the global economy and rising to 40, 50 percent by the end of this decade,” he said. “Emerging markets have a better immune system than developed markets and investors now realize that their money has to stay there, at least a good portion of their money.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Shiyin Chen in Singapore at [email protected]

[aussiebebe]

If you are concerned about dividends your money would probably be safer in other more regulated markets such as the London stock exchange.Excellent yields are available.eg Lloyds bank is now yielding 8.75% at todays share price of 394p.Looking at the SET,anything owned by Shinawatra family should be a safe investment while he's still PM anyways.

I keep putting off opening a Thai trading account.I know too many Thai people heavily in debt because their banks encourage them to borrow or remortgage their houses/land seemingly without thought to how this money will be paid back?If Thai interest rates were to rise significantly we would have an interesting situation.

Good luck if you take the plunge.

I know it's not about daytrading, but how do you take the plunge and invest on the LSE? Do you need to open a UK-based bank account? What are the steps you need to take to buy shares?