Northern Country Princesses

[Mango-Guy]

Thytyim, is it possible that someone is pulling your leg? What would so many "working girls" be doing at college in the first place ??

[Padkapow Guy]

Let's not get carried away Bluecat, I'm sure some prostitutes are princesses, but they are not ALL princesses.

some are a prince!

[Thetyim]

Thytyim, is it possible that someone is pulling your leg? What would so many "working girls" be doing at college in the first place ??

No-one is pulling my leg. I see it all the time.

A waitress here gets 16 baht per hour.

Please do not misunderstand me here, I have deliberately not used the word prostitute .

The girls and their parents do not have enough money to pay for their education so they resort to selling themselves. They do not go ST. When money is short they will accompany you for the weekend for a fee.

My figure of 75 percent refers to this college and not to the Changwat as other people seem to have read my post.

They are not permanently on the game only when the need arises.

[rod_kalashnikov]

 

[mbkudu]

For me the answer is in your word 'unworldly'.

Bangkok is so cosmopolitan and girls are exposed to all the 'worldly' values of consumerism. I personally (a) have no money and ( hate all that neo culture; i.e. I'm 'unworldy'.

So I like a girl of simple pleasures, simple values and isn't obsessed with accumulating stuff. And doesn't mind that I'm as poor as her parents and don't even have a buffalo.

BTW apart from 18 yr olds there are many very sweet and innocent ladies in their 20s and 30s. Of course there aren't many farangs up north so they aren't exposed to much English. I find that an advantage; one of my many disaffections with farang women is that they never bleedin' stop talking. Women everywhere are the same but at least if yo udon't share a common language she has to chew someone else's ear off - ah the peace!

But that's just me. I don't claim to be normal.

I am with you man. I like a woman who just talks ENOUGH. Talking for the sake of talking drives me up the frigging wall.

[rod_kalashnikov]

 

[kat]

When money is short they will accompany you for the weekend for a fee.

So they're "amateur" prostitutes rather than "professional" prostitutes ???

Don't get me wrong ... I wish those unfortunate girls had some way of paying for their education other than selling their bodies ... but when all the eggs are counted, they're still prostitutes in the strict sense of the word.

Over the years I've known many Thai "accommodation and food" girls who weren't trying to pay for their education but simply trying to survive in a world that gave them no other choice. I think of them as "borderline prostitutes" ... but can we fairly call them prostitutes while calling the "respectable" farang girl who sleeps with you on an all-expenses-paid weekend trip to a beach resort a social butterfly ?

ok, this is an interesting quote, and I could not resist responding to this question. Rod, so far I have basically agreed and respected your sentiments on just about everything that you have said on thaivisa that I have seen. I agree with you 100% on your philosophy of treating everyone with respect unless they prove otherwise.

However, I think your question reveals a very telling and important moment in the constant comparision of Thai women and western women by what seems like every man that lives here. Of course there are all kinds of women everywhere, and there are prostitutes in the west. But as I have said on other threads, the political and cultural dynamics vary everywhere, and that changes the actual empirical dynamic or experience ont he ground. If we were not so fascinated or curious by how these things differed, thaivisa would probably be visited by about 3 people a week, and we all know that's not the case.

So, to talk about how things differ here, and what the motivating factors may be for many "girls and women on the game" in Thailand, we need to confront both factual and empirical information. People seem to be doing that a lot on this thread. It is not offensive to simply list or relay factual or empirical information because that is why we all visit this website. It is not offensive by itself to talk about the fact that maybe up to 75% of some girls may be selling their bodies occassionally to get through school. In fact, this supports another study that a Thai friend told me about last year, which found that approximately 50% of college students overall sold their bodies. It is not accusatory to look at this data, because you can never address a problem if you never address it. Therefore, we know from these simple statistics alone that there should be more scholarships available, and especially for women and girls (did you know that there are more seats held for males at universities than for girls?).

Now, the moment of your comment that I am talking about in particular, is that when you were confronted with the high number of girls at this college that sell their bodies, your immediate rationalisation was to compare them to farang women. In my view, this happens a lot here, and completely out of context.

If you ask a farang women to accomodate you on an all expenses trip somewhere, than my guess is that you are dating her or there is some sort of attraction. Same as anywhere else. If you ask a woman that you barely know, then maybe it is a "food and accomodation" type of arrangement, I don't know. Same as anywhere else.

What I can tell you for certainity, however, is that in the west we do not hear of at least 50% of college students selling their bodies to get through school. I was poor and I had a scholarship. Those who were not poor got loans. Some students may have turned to "illicit" or illegal work, but they were definitely a minority.

My question Rod, is why when you were confronted with a large statistic such as 50-70%, did you then immediately compare one situation regarding Thai female students with another completely and highly varied situation with farang women? If yo want to make fair comparisons such as this with any merit, then you have to compare along the same lines or data parameters.

[kat]

And I want to clarify, that when I quote 50-75% of students above, I'm talking about here in Thailand.

[rod_kalashnikov]

 

[andyinkat]

Kat,

I've found the quality of your posts and the sentiments expressed to be absolute top notch. Your points made and anaysis in this post above are most impressive. I would support and defend your position 100%. I would like here to offer some sort of explanation for an issue you criticise - not as a defence but merely as an observation as I see it. You write:

However, I think your question reveals a very telling and important moment in the constant comparision of Thai women and western women by what seems like every man that lives here.

I going to massively generalise here and skip the necessary caveats (please take them as read) and say that the vast majority of the men who visit Thailand regularly or choose to live here have a certain particular attitude in common:

They [we] are all to a greater or lesser extent somewhat disillusioned with our experiences of western women. I don't want to reignite any arguments about Western v. Thai women and I'm not going to mention my own bitter experiences, I'm simply pointing out that for whatever reasons most of us are not wholly neutral or balanced in our assessments of Western women. Many of us will see qualities in Thai women we perceive to be lacking in Western women and accentuate those differences in our minds, maybe romanticising our perceptions of Thai women along the way.

So, I think I'm asking you for a little understanding. We can't compare like with like - if we'd met the 'right' Western woman or were positive that we were yet to meet her we wouldn't be in Thailand! Whilst you are entirely right to defend Western women in your post, please accept that for many of us our limited experiences make it hard for us to be completely rationally balanced on the matter.

[mbkudu]

It is going back a few years when I was in a cab heading to the airport in Bangkok.

We were driving down Asoke when the driver asked where are you going and I replied Chiangmai.

His next question was "you have 'gf' there?" and I replied in the affirmative.

He then said Issan girl much better than Chiangmai girl.

Why do you say that I asked.

He replied with "Chiangmai girl very lazy, like sleep a lot, not like work, not take good care of man"

He went on "see all these girls who have mobile food stall, they are all Issan girl, Chiangmai girl not do, too lazy"

Well there has been a bit of water down the creek since then but whilst you should not make generalisations I do tend to agree with that driver.

Leastaways, that has been my subsequent experience.

Sorry, but I think this may be a wee bit'o <deleted>. People of different regions will always say that others from other regions are 'lazy, thieves, uneducated, liars, ect..' Time spent in Indonesia was often listening to Balinese tell never to trust the Javanese, and Javanese telling that Balinese are thieving bastards one and all.

How many northerners have told you that Issan girls are 'dirty, too black, not good for marry.' Most people are full of it, including me sometimes.

[kat]

Kat,

I've found the quality of your posts and the sentiments expressed to be absolute top notch. Your points made and anaysis in this post above are most impressive. I would support and defend your position 100%. I would like here to offer some sort of explanation for an issue you criticise - not as a defence but merely as an observation as I see it. You write:

However, I think your question reveals a very telling and important moment in the constant comparision of Thai women and western women by what seems like every man that lives here.

I going to massively generalise here and skip the necessary caveats (please take them as read) and say that the vast majority of the men who visit Thailand regularly or choose to live here have a certain particular attitude in common:

They [we] are all to a greater or lesser extent somewhat disillusioned with our experiences of western women. I don't want to reignite any arguments about Western v. Thai women and I'm not going to mention my own bitter experiences, I'm simply pointing out that for whatever reasons most of us are not wholly neutral or balanced in our assessments of Western women. Many of us will see qualities in Thai women we perceive to be lacking in Western women and accentuate those differences in our minds, maybe romanticising our perceptions of Thai women along the way.

So, I think I'm asking you for a little understanding. We can't compare like with like - if we'd met the 'right' Western woman or were positive that we were yet to meet her we wouldn't be in Thailand! Whilst you are entirely right to defend Western women in your post, please accept that for many of us our limited experiences make it hard for us to be completely rationally balanced on the matter.

AndyinKat (wow, that is a funny and unintentional play on both our names )

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the honesty and the acknowledgement, something that there is very little of on this topic. I can live with the preferences of men, especially here, but I grow tired and weary of the constant, unchallenged denigration of Western women that is most often used to simply glorify the also very often less than perfect alliances with Thai women. You know, one can generalise either way, but the generalisation of preference here is always to put down all Western women.

I don't really care if you if you find Thai women better or more beautiful or whatever (they are very good-looking generally), but I resent the incessant demonising of Western women. This has a lot more to do with the men themselves, but I'm not going to get into that right now. It has become a "norm" for men here to insult Western women.

Let's face it, when anyone makes a huge leap across politcal, cultural and socioeconomic circumstances, life does not fold into the perfect little garden. The fact is, there are tradeoffs, as with everything. So you chose the tradeoffs of living with a Thai woman better than with a Western woman. Great for you, but if you're so happy than stop insulting Western women.

[rod_kalashnikov]

You know, one can generalise either way, but the generalisation of preference here is always to put down all Western women.

I don't think you'll find any post of mine in which I "put down" Western women, Kat ... I simply don't see them through rose-colored glasses ... and I question why what is regarded by the Average White Male as "acceptable" behavior by an Anglo/Euro/American girl is often regarded as "slutty" behavior by a girl who has darker skin or slanted eyes.

[rod_kalashnikov]

 

[kat]

You know, one can generalise either way, but the generalisation of preference here is always to put down all Western women.

I don't think you'll find any post of mine in which I "put down" Western women, Kat ... I simply don't see them through rose-colored glasses ... and I question why what is regarded by the Average White Male as "acceptable" behavior by an Anglo/Euro/American girl is often regarded as "slutty" behavior by a girl who has darker skin or slanted eyes.

I wasn't talking about you exclusively in this case Rod. Based on your posts, I usually find your outlook to be respectful and thoughtful. So, in the case of my last post, I was expanding on both your and AndyinKat's responses to other comments I've heard here in general.

That being said, an honest challenge is fine. I would like to go into a bit more discussion about what you just said between "acceptable" behaviour for a farang compared to an Issan girl. I don't have time right now, but in a sense that is a different topic than how we started. We were talking about the high proportion of student "working girls". You then made the comparison to farang women. This was not a fair comparison within that context.

If you want to compare the different standards in which Issan women are judged against farang women or any other women for that matter, than make a comparison based on two similar circmstances or whatever. Otherwise, the comparison is merely gratuitous at best. We can continue to discuss this here or offline, but I have to run right now.

Rod, no hard feelings at all, I like your posts.

[Thetyim]

Thanks for your postings Kat.

The problem of student prostitution is worse than most people realise.

Where I live the police have had to close down two niteries.

The problem was blatant prostitution with hordes of young girls visiting these establishments. All warnings were ignored so closure was the only recourse.

The majority of them now use their mobile phone as their only source of customers which makes it very hard for the police to detect.

I have a 15 year old daughter at school here so the subject is close to my heart. A falang friend of mine had his daughter go on the game this year,

and I had to help him through it. The effect on him was dramatic.

Sorry if I am a bit off topic here, maybe we should start a new thread,

"Will your daughter become a prostitute"

This is something which very few falangs consider before they marry and a subject which has never been discussed here

[rod_kalashnikov]

 

[kat]

Thanks for your postings Kat.

The problem of student prostitution is worse than most people realise.

Where I live the police have had to close down two niteries.

The problem was blatant prostitution with hordes of young girls visiting these establishments. All warnings were ignored so closure was the only recourse.

The majority of them now use their mobile phone as their only source of customers which makes it very hard for the police to detect.

I have a 15 year old daughter at school here so the subject is close to my heart. A falang friend of mine had his daughter go on the game this year,

and I had to help him through it. The effect on him was dramatic.

Sorry if I am a bit off topic here, maybe we should start a new thread,

"Will your daughter become a prostitute"

This is something which very few falangs consider before they marry and a subject which has never been discussed here

Thanks Thetyim. Anyone who resides here that thinks about it much can ascertain fairly easily that it is a major problem. There is a lot of ancedotal evidence about it, like the example you just mentioned, and confirmed statistical research.

In addition, if one read the papers everyday for any length of time, you can easily see how frequently the issue of underage prostitution appears. I'm not saying this as a rail against prostitution, because I think as long as there are consenting adults involved with no coercion it is her right to rent herself. But I do like to think that women should be able to find other ways to support themselves. And if you are talking about the daughter of a falang, my initial but maybe biased assumption is that his daughter is most likely not dirt poor. Which leads me to suspect that prostitution, or renting oneself for a short time to buy consumer goods, is becoming increasingly widespread among the young.

However, most of my energy is reserved for child prostitution/abuse. I'm sure the two are mutually exclusive in many cases, but how often do you think sexual abuse of children may intersect with child or underage sex work? I've posed a similar question in the thread about Northern Beauties or girls or whatever. Please check that out if your inclined and let me know what you think.

[kat]

Oh, I made a mistake in the last line of my previous post. I posed the question about child sex abuse in the "Do you get involved thread." Thanks.

[Bluecat]

Oh, I made a mistake in the last line of my previous post. I posed the question about child sex abuse in the "Do you get involved thread." Thanks.

Come on, Kat.

You are right and you know it.

Even if you're, well, over reacting sometimes.

Anyway, you should post in the right thread,...

[kat]

Oh, I made a mistake in the last line of my previous post.  I posed the question about child sex abuse in the "Do you get involved thread."  Thanks.

Come on, Kat.

You are right and you know it.

Even if you're, well, over reacting sometimes.

Anyway, you should post in the right thread,...