Let The Buyer Beware

[buzziebaby]

I see by the postings that most of the posters here just see them being ripped off. Open your eyes for christs sake people. You are all here and you have a choice. You are given a menu with a price, If you want to pay , pay if not don't. Its as simple as that. A lot of you jump on your high horse whinging and whining about it. JEEEEZ Its not so much as charging you more rather than charging somebody who earns a fraction of what you earn less. Which part of that equation do you people not understand ????????????????????????????????

Sorry Dunc have to disagree, surely the price is the price ? Having more or less money should have no influence. It should be the same price for the same thing. If you choose to go to a "FARANG" style restaurant you accept the price however I expect to be charged the same price as everyone else. It is not a matter of money for me as you well know it is a matter or principal.

If I am living in Thailand and working in Thailand then I am earning potentially the same as someone doing the same job whether Thai National or Farang. I am not on vacation I live here . Sure I don't have to work in a bar or a restaurant or in the fields and yes I make more than 150 bht a day but do you think that Mr papa pays the Farang pricing because he has millions in the bank ? ? or do you think he pays Thai pricing ??? I am sure he pays Thai pricing , which surely shows it is not a matter of money ? But the perception that we have more and are all on vacation, not living on fixed incomes ?

Two prices for locals for national parks is for me something completely different and this goes on all over the world for heritage and museums etc and it is made clear.

I do not like the underhand hidden pricing tiers and sometime obvious pricing difference. You can choose what you want to accept to pay but when as with the initial post the guy ordered off the thai menu and was then charged farang prices well for me that would make me furious.

[soundman]

To those with a mai bpen rai attitude towards double pricing, what would you do if the local petrol station started charging you 5B per litre more because you are a farang? Mai bpen rai? Or all convenience stores had a 25% farang tax added to the bill? Mai bpen rai?

Take your business elsewhere? At a cost of driving all those extra kilometres?

Move your family out of the country with all the costs involved?

No. Double pricing is discriminatory & in many instances where the government sets the price, a bag of sugar for example, illegal.

And I don't understand how the government actually condones it with reference to National Park Entry & "satisfied tourism". Everyone who visits a national park leaves with a bitter taste in their mouths vowing never to amke a second journey. Maybe the bean counters have actually worked out that the avg. tourist visits a national park 3.5 times in their lifetime & to maximise returns versus piss off factor they came up with the magic ten fold increase in foreign visitor prices. Absurd!

Soundman.

[UnknownPoster]

.

There is a big difference from going to an expensive restaurant and going to a cheap restaurant and getting the expensive menu.

They are pulling a 'fast one', it's a scam.

Anybody that was raised proper knows it's unethical, shamefull and immoral.

[fisherd3]

I have previously read that Black Canyon in Chaweng, Samui, do it. Two menus.

Edited August 16, 2007 by fisherd3

[t.s]

while i do disagree with dual menus, and transport costs and 2 tier pricing in general, i think 2 tier pricing in the parks is justifiable.

there is nothing wrong with a clearly posted residents rate, much like there is nothing wrong with a students rate, as long as it is clearly posted and the conditions under which the discount is offered are clearly outlined. this is practiced worldwide.

Likewise, it is duncs perogative to offer breaks to locals who could not otherwise afford his luxury service. i think it shows a decent sense of community spirit and charity.

I do not expect free healthcare when i visit canada or a free education when i travel a country that offers one to their citizens, unless i too am a citizen.

if the policy is clear, fair play. i can decide from there.

[Carmine6]

To those with a mai bpen rai attitude towards double pricing, what would you do if the local petrol station started charging you 5B per litre more because you are a farang? Mai bpen rai? Or all convenience stores had a 25% farang tax added to the bill? Mai bpen rai?

Take your business elsewhere? At a cost of driving all those extra kilometres?

Move your family out of the country with all the costs involved?

No. Double pricing is discriminatory & in many instances where the government sets the price, a bag of sugar for example, illegal.

And I don't understand how the government actually condones it with reference to National Park Entry & "satisfied tourism". Everyone who visits a national park leaves with a bitter taste in their mouths vowing never to amke a second journey. Maybe the bean counters have actually worked out that the avg. tourist visits a national park 3.5 times in their lifetime & to maximise returns versus piss off factor they came up with the magic ten fold increase in foreign visitor prices. Absurd!

Soundman.

I don't have a problem with a fee differential for national parks. Since it's the government, theoretically its subsidized by taxes. Since I don't pay income taxes in Thailand and the Thais (in general and not necessarily individually) pay them, I don't have a problem with paying extra.

My California fishing license was cheaper because I'm a resident. I paid the in-state university fees because I and my parents were residents. You get the same discount even if you've never paid a dime in taxes in the state, you just have to be a resident for a year. Annoyingly even illegal immigrants pay in-state tuition if they're residents.

[Tinkelbell]

.

There is a big difference from going to an expensive restaurant and going to a cheap restaurant and getting the expensive menu.

They are pulling a 'fast one', it's a scam.

Anybody that was raised proper knows it's unethical, shamefull and immoral.

Now you're talking sense.

Fom my previous post (#14) that was what I tried to explain that some Thai restaurants practice 2 tiers pricing to even Thai (like myself) if they sense you're a Thai expat, not a local Thai. T

This is done purely on greeds and they must have done a lot of time and got away with

it for years. I bet some of those who voiced ....... "they're happy to pay xx times more than the locals" are the most source of the restaurants maximum profits.

UnknownPoster put it best......" Anybody that was raise proper knows it's unethical, shameful and immoral" for the restaurants trying to rob their customers this way.

[DP25]

I don't have a problem with a fee differential for national parks. Since it's the government, theoretically its subsidized by taxes. Since I don't pay income taxes in Thailand and the Thais (in general and not necessarily individually) pay them, I don't have a problem with paying extra.

My California fishing license was cheaper because I'm a resident. I paid the in-state university fees because I and my parents were residents. You get the same discount even if you've never paid a dime in taxes in the state, you just have to be a resident for a year. Annoyingly even illegal immigrants pay in-state tuition if they're residents.

I can agree with that. A state/national resident paying less for government services than foreigners or out of staters is perfectly fine. Like you said though about CA, non US citizens going to the California universities actually pay less than a US citizen from another state if they are in-state residents, which they can become while students. If foreign residents pay the Thai price for national parks, and they usually can from what I've read, it's not morally wrong and I don't have a problem with it. Still though, the fees for many national parks in Thailand are a bad deal in my book, 10 times the price of a Thai person to see some water fall covered in trash is not worth it. I avoid them because they are a bad value and the difference in price is ridiculous, but it doesn't really bother me. Private companies charging different prices based on skin color or nationality is totally out of line though, I'd never give them a satang of my money if I can avoid it, and I let others know about the double pricing so they can decide for themselves.

[simon43]

On the subject of 2-tier pricing, my wife and I took a tuk-tuk recently in BKK, (I never use them because of their inflated prices and anyway, I prefer to walk). But we needed to go somewhere fast. My wife asked the price and was quoted 200 baht. She knoew the correct price would be about 50 baht and therefore queried the driver. His response was to ask her why she was querying the price since I would be paying, she was Thai and Thai people should all stick together and help each other. (This was all spoken in Thai which I understood perfectly well....)

Suffice to say, we got the ride for 50 baht after she said that I was her husband and it was she who was paying!

But it does sadden me to see this racism card being played so frequently Does Thailand not have any laws against racial discrimination? (I believe it actually does, but they are never enforced...)

Simon

[H2oDunc]

A lot of people sem to miss my point. The price I charge a farang is a reasonable price. I dont overcharge I actually undercharge. As for the poster saying would I be happy being taxed more, the already tax me more than a Thai and everytime I go to a national park Im charged a hel of a lot more. The difference is I dont take it personaly and I make a choice whether to pay or not.

[steve73]

Some good points being made here, with lively discussions.

My take is that I'm happy with dual pricing if it's made (relatively) clear, such as National parks. I simply refuse to go in as the Farang price represents such bad value, and have once sat outside while my Thai g/f and her family spent a few hours inside. She politely expalined to them that I was unprepared to pay 10 times to sit by a litter-laden waterfall. Maybe if enough of us adopt that attitude, they'll think about at least keeping the places tidy and clearing up the litter. (I now have a Thai driving licence so I'm hoping to get Thai prices next time!) .

Farang style restaurants inevitably charge more than typical Thai places. Again, I simply choose not to give them my custom.

But the thing I really don't like, is as the OP said, when you order something from the Thai priced menu, and when the bill arrives and its queried, they bring you the higher price menu. On one occasion (can't remember where), they even had the cheek to say the original menu was out of date.... SO, that's not my problem? My solution now, is to write down the prices of everything I order, in a way that the waiter see's what I'm doing. The other thing to do is to ask to keep the menu a little longer "to choose another dish", and then hide it away. If they ask for it back say another waiter took it. It's all a bit childish though, but is wonderful to see their loss of face, when they're "found out", and only recommended if you're definitely not planning on going back. Oh yes, and keep a 25 or 50 satang coin for tipping at such places - this says so much more to them than no tip at all, although the subtlety of this is probably lost on the average waiter.!

To be honest, I usually frequent the "local" thai places, and probably tip excessively (one one occasion more than the original price) compared to the "better" establishments where I rarely tip anyway, assuming that the inflated prices include it. I tip based on value for money and service rather than the total price.

As to H2oDunc's practice - I think that's entirely fair. Offer a competitive and clear price for your services, but there's nothing wrong with offerring discounts for locals or regulars. Makes good business sense - where are you based?

So I support dual pricing where it is made clear, and its your choice to accept. Dual pricing is worldwide, but it is often called "concessions".

S.

[grtaylor]

I don't let it upset me, but I do think its wrong. I already do my 'bit' for this country, by paying a LOT more in income tax than many Thais earn as a salary. I just think that goods and services should have the same price for everyone.

G

[CTM]

I run a diving, snorkling and fishing business. The price I charge for customers I think is reasonable. I dont charge the same for Thai locals who I know cannot afford to pay the same as Farang customers. I dont see that as wrong? There is a big difference to overcharging Farang. I give the local Thais an opportunity to enjoy some of the things we enjoy doing so much. I dont think it is a specifically Thai thing. It happens the world over. I certainly don't expect to pay the same as somebody who earns a fraction of what I do. I know it winds certain people up who stay here. It isn't going to chang so don't let it upset you too much. You have a choice in where you spend your money and remember something is only worth what you are prepared to pay for it!

As already mentioned, he was given a Thai menu with prices of B80 and B60, then charged three times that amount. How do you see him as agreeing to be ripped off and therefore deserving it?

You really charge a farang English teacher who makes B30,000 a month and is a long term resident more than a rich Thai who makes B500,000 a month or more? Your business skills need work.

Since your so proud of your policies please provide the name of your business so we can make an informed decision not to use your services.

Having multiple pricing strategies for complicated or expensive goods and services is common. Multiple prices for a simple plate of food is dishonest. The fact you can’t see the difference is sad. There is such a thing as going too native.

[CTM]

I worked for five years in restaurants in California. We developed a habit of treating locals to lower prices, freebies, specials, free drinks, etc. all the time. I'm sure if you go back to where you came from and open your eyes you'll see it is just good business practice. And, no, the customer doesn't get to decide whether he is a local or special or not. Owning a business comes with certain privileges.

You really don’t see the difference between tripling the agreed upon price after a service is consumed and offering extras or small DISCOUNTS to locals?

And owning a business is not a license to violate the law.

Edited August 19, 2007 by CTM

[paulsmithson]

My Thai wife came to Engkand over 20 years ago and some local ###### charged her twenty pounds for a packey of sewing needles. There are com men everywhere but I must say hat living outside a tourist area in Thailand I have never been charged more than a Thai person/ maybe the two tiered price system thaat you talk about is due solely to the stupid farangs who accept it

[philliphn]

When Thais come to my country they are not charged 3 times more to eat at any restaurant. To do so would be racist! ets......

Thai people can come to my country the USA and own homes outirght and bussinesses as well. They are protected by the same laws as any one else is and in the same way. The answer is with not with some rare exceptions you Thai you pay and pay more! To do that would be racist! The few exceptions may be in some State Parks where State residents may be given a price break. I if not being from that particular State would then be charged the same as the Thai person would be. It would not be 10 times as much either. Another example would be if I use the local library in an adjacent county. In this case I may be charged more than a resident from that county. A Thai person would not be charged more than me just because they were Thai.

Not every "Farang" is a millionaire. Many are retired and on fixed incomes. They support Thai wives, children, and often help exteneded famalies as well. They invest improve and develope resources that the Thai people benefit from.

Many people go to Thailand on vacation because they think it is good value for the money. Erode and destroy this perception and they will choose other destinations and Thais will suffer significant economic loss. We will take our hard earned money and retire in other countries that understand the benefit of haveing retirees that have worked all their lives as residents.

It is very short sighted to abuse your guests. If you do they may not return and spend the holiday money that they saved all year for their vacations in Thailand. They will choose other destinations.

[Solosiam]

Even an average retiree on a fixed income has around 3-4 times the amount of money that the average Thai can earn whilst working, if an average Thai retires to the USA is the same true?

Personally I know of very few, if any farang who come here becuase it's good value for money - the flight often costs their entire holiday budget elsewhere. If your only attraction to holiday makers is that your country is cheap, then I'm afraid there is no way to lift your country up. If it's only popular as long as it's poor, whats the point in being popular?

The increasing amount of people that are coming over here nowadays regardless of coups, Tsunami's, Exchange rates and Visa difficulties - It's a VERY GOOD thing that they are making it more difficult.

[philliphn]

Even an average retiree on a fixed income has around 3-4 times the amount of money that the average Thai can earn whilst working, if an average Thai retires to the USA is the same true?

Personally I know of very few, if any farang who come here becuase it's good value for money - the flight often costs their entire holiday budget elsewhere. If your only attraction to holiday makers is that your country is cheap, then I'm afraid there is no way to lift your country up. If it's only popular as long as it's poor, whats the point in being popular?

The increasing amount of people that are coming over here nowadays regardless of coups, Tsunami's, Exchange rates and Visa difficulties - It's a VERY GOOD thing that they are making it more difficult.

[/quote

Perhaps if the average Thai learned to think of the future and plan ahead instead of just living for today. Then their country would be able to better develop and they would have more income. Of course one would then have to learn to save and have a decent educational system. But that is part of planning for the future. Not to mention also stop the enourmous amount of corruption prevalent in Thailand at all levels.

People want value for their money. Most importantly they don't want to be cheated at every step. My having less than you do does not justify my cheating you! No more than your having more than me justifies your cheating me!

You seem to be one of the people who want to slam the door in every one elses face once you walk through it. I don't object in the slightest that Thailand require retirees to have a certain level of income in order to qualify for a retirement visa. This seems perfectly reasonable to me. The amount that they have set at this time to qualify seems fair.

I am a USA citizen and I know fully well that criticism can be leveled at the USA. That is ok with me. Things never change for the better unless people are made to examine things.

My main objection is the corruption, cheating, and racism that seems to be a cultural norm in Thailand. Or for that matter any where else!

If you find that a behavior is objectionable to you, if you are the target of it, then you should not target others with the same behavior.

Edited August 19, 2007 by philliphn

[Jingthing]

Even an average retiree on a fixed income has around 3-4 times the amount of money that the average Thai can earn whilst working, if an average Thai retires to the USA is the same true?

Personally I know of very few, if any farang who come here becuase it's good value for money - the flight often costs their entire holiday budget elsewhere. If your only attraction to holiday makers is that your country is cheap, then I'm afraid there is no way to lift your country up. If it's only popular as long as it's poor, whats the point in being popular?

The increasing amount of people that are coming over here nowadays regardless of coups, Tsunami's, Exchange rates and Visa difficulties - It's a VERY GOOD thing that they are making it more difficult.

Nah, I think you are wrong.

Thailand has many attractions. Being good value, and it is still good value, is an important factor for many, and in my view, most retirees. If overnight it became as expensive as Australia, you will hear a really loud sucking sound heading towards the airport (no Pattaya jokes please).

Medical tourism is a great example. Many come here for the mix of quality and low cost for things like plastic surgery. If it cost as much as Europe or the US, there would be no business there. Why deal with the jet lag if it costs the same and you can't sue them if they mess up?

I don't expect Thailand to become like the west. They are certainly living up to my lack of expectations.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Jingthing

[Solosiam]

Perhaps if the average Thai learned to think of the future and plan ahead instead of just living for today. Then their country would be able to better develop and they would have more income. Of course one would then have to learn to save and have a decent educational system. But that is part of planning for the future. Not to mention also stop the enourmous amount of corruption prevalent in Thailand at all levels.

OK, No probs - I'll tell my neighbour Somchai to get it fixed for next week for you!

Hillarious that you think it's all 'fixable' by telling some people off and getting them to start saving, and somehow develop and attend a magnificent new educational system.

In regards to closing the door behind me, not at all - However I do expect people to have to go through the same hassles as myself AND be held to the same pre-requisites. I think Thailand as the choice for the criminal, outcasts and poorer people who can't manage to scrimp together 6 months wages from their own country to retire on is slowly eroding, thank god.

[Jingthing]

I think Thailand as the choice for the criminal, outcasts and poorer people who can't manage to scrimp together 6 months wages from their own country to retire on is slowly eroding, thank god.

I would agree about criminals of course. Not sure what you mean by outcasts. Some outcasts are really cool people and very desirable people; kind of depends on the person and how messed up the society is that excluded him. Albert Einstein was an outcast. Also don't see what skin it is off your bum whether a lower wealth retired person settles in Thailand, or not. Surely that doesn't hurt you or effect you in any way. Are you against that for "moral" reasons like people who oppose gay marriage? As a matter of fact, under the current rules, a retiree who qualifies on a pension can most certainly legally retire here without being able to "scrimp together 6 months wages from their own country." I hope this doesn't pain you too much. Actually, in my opinion, the required retirement funds are much higher than what it actually costs to live here at a comfortable level, even for American dollar people.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Jingthing

[H2oDunc]

I run a diving, snorkling and fishing business. The price I charge for customers I think is reasonable. I dont charge the same for Thai locals who I know cannot afford to pay the same as Farang customers. I dont see that as wrong? There is a big difference to overcharging Farang. I give the local Thais an opportunity to enjoy some of the things we enjoy doing so much. I dont think it is a specifically Thai thing. It happens the world over. I certainly don't expect to pay the same as somebody who earns a fraction of what I do. I know it winds certain people up who stay here. It isn't going to chang so don't let it upset you too much. You have a choice in where you spend your money and remember something is only worth what you are prepared to pay for it!

As already mentioned, he was given a Thai menu with prices of B80 and B60, then charged three times that amount. How do you see him as agreeing to be ripped off and therefore deserving it?

You really charge a farang English teacher who makes B30,000 a month and is a long term resident more than a rich Thai who makes B500,000 a month or more? Your business skills need work.

Since your so proud of your policies please provide the name of your business so we can make an informed decision not to use your services.

Having multiple pricing strategies for complicated or expensive goods and services is common. Multiple prices for a simple plate of food is dishonest. The fact you can’t see the difference is sad. There is such a thing as going too native.

Again you dont seem to be reading the posting. No, as said I dont charge a farang teacher on 30,000 baht the same as a tourist as I class him as a local. I even offer then the chance to take a course and pay a small amount each month. I get rich Thais down from BKK and they pay full price. I take local children from schols snorkling for free. It has nothing to do with race. So I dont think my business skills need working on. I dont do ths to make a fortune. I can live back in the UK and earn 12,000 to 15,000 baht a day if it was all about money. I agree some people wil rip the farang off at every oportunity. Others will not. I've had more Thais help me over the years than have ever ripped me off. If I do then I make apoint of not going back there but I dont let it upset me.

You stand a god chance of getting ripped off in the major tourist ares which is one of the reasons we moved here to Chumphon. As I said if you get ripped off dont get wound up just remember!!!!

[radioguy1450]

At my restaurant I overcharge anyone with darker skin than mine because I am a racist. The problem I have is with jews. Many of them are light skinned and sneak through the system.

I am of course joking--but also pointing out that these restaurants are basing their pricing on race--not ability to pay. The rich Thai pays less than the poor backpacker.

All I would ask is that they put up a sign saying that they have a tiered pricing system and then I can choose to pay it or not. If they aren't doing anything wrong then they have no reason to hide it. If they hide their pricing system, most people will feel ripped off.

[Irish]

I started a thread like this almost 2 years ago. I really don't think it is good business practice as if it happens to you you will most likely not go back. I'm still of the same opinion... You should not be charged according to your skin colour. Apartheid Thai Style

[peter991]

Something which has not been mentioned yet is the 2 tier pricing of hotel rooms. I only found out yesterday that the budget hotel I use in Bangkok advertises in their lobby, above the Reception area: double room 900 baht per night.

We (me and Thai bf) were actually charged 700 baht a night - because we booked and stayed for a week.

Bf told me yesterday the rate for a Thai couple staying at the hotel (in the same room) is 450 baht a night.

Peter

[logpoacher]

A friend of mine and his Thai wife run a small bungalow resort on a well known Thai island. Their clientele are mostly farang who don't like all the haggling and so he displays a clear price list outside the office. A couple of years ago at Songkran, the island was packed as usual, Thais sleeping on the beach, etc. Late afternoon, a Thai couple from Bangkok roll up and ask if he has any rooms free. "Yes", he says, "we have one left, it's 3,000 baht per night". The Thai guy points out that the price list clearly says 1,500 baht per night. "Ah", says my friend, "that's the farang price..."

[retirednavyman]

I’m against the double tier pricing as much as any reasonable person, but can someone please explain why so many people take it so personally?

It’s not an insult, it is just an attempt to maximize profits, Simple business, as practiced all over the world.

TH

Here, let me rephrase it for you consistent with how other people feel about it. It's an insulting attempt to maximize profits, simple as that!

[Gary A]

I always hear complaints about the farang price and the Thai price. With just a little effort you can find out prices in advance and avoid places that have two tier pricing. What I don't hear complaints about is how much teachers get paid. A Thai teacher getting paid 10,000 baht per month and a farang teacher getting paid 30,000 baht per month. As an engineer years ago, I was making 100,000 baht a month and the Thai engineers I was working with were lucky to make 15,000.

[thaihome]

I’m against the double tier pricing as much as any reasonable person, but can someone please explain why so many people take it so personally?

It’s not an insult, it is just an attempt to maximize profits, Simple business, as practiced all over the world.

TH

Here, let me rephrase it for you consistent with how other people feel about it. It's an insulting attempt to maximize profits, simple as that!

I suspect that you take it as an insult because you grew in an environment where prices were pretty much fixed and little bargaining went on, except for big ticket items like cars and houses. Asia is much different, few prices are fixed and the business culture is one where there are no rules on what you can charge, only dictated by what each individual customer is willing to pay.

Like what as been said many times already, if you find a place that wants to charge you more then other customers because they think they can get away with it, just don’t go back. But don’t get angry, it is not a personal insult, it is a fact of life in Asia.

TH

[jumnien]

I was at Nong Nooch Gardens today and I was charged the same price as our Isaan nanny because I've been here a few years. I was happy to see the busloads of Asians being reamed for the "foreigner" price. What's not to like?