1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Nah, I'm sure if there were more white Muslims they'd be just as stabby as non white Muslims.

 

It's not race that's the problem, it's their religion.

 

Where does religion come into this ?...    You are shoehorning in a separate discussion...

 

Now... if you want to talk about 'religiously motivated Machete attacks' rather than stabbings and general confrontational violence, or vehicular manslaughter in the name of fundamentalist religious idealism - its a different topic....

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats a headline - not a statistic, its misleading, ignores nuance and plays into racial sterotypes rather than attempts to undress the underlying issues: 

 

Why the headline claim (“blacks make up most of the knife crime / disproportionate share”) can be misleading:

It treats a statistical skew (higher percentage) as evidence of a community-wide phenomenon rather than a phenomenon localised to certain risk groups (young males, deprived areas, gangs) - which leads to over-generalisation.

 

It omits key contextual factors (age, gender, area deprivation, gang involvement) that are critical to understand causation and risk. Without those, attributing over-representation to ethnicity alone is simplistic and risks reinforcing bias/stereotype.

 

It creates a bias that focuses on “black community must be fixed” rather than addressing the structural issues (poverty, educational opportunities, neighbourhoods, policing).

It gives raw percentages without full denominators or trend analysis, meaning a reader (such as yourself) might think “blacks commit the majority of knife crime” when in fact the data may refer only to a subset (knife murders, perpetrators caught) and may not reflect all knife offences.

 

There is risk of ignoring how policing and criminal justice practices (e.g., stop & search, neighbourhood targeting) might themselves influence the statistics and over‐representation, making the data not purely reflective of underlying behaviour.

 

What stronger / more helpful analysis would include:

To avoid the pitfalls above, a better approach might include:

Rate calculations: offenders/victims per 1,000 people by ethnic group, controlling for age and gender.

Broken down by subgroup: e.g., young males (16-24) in specific boroughs, gang-involved individuals, etc, to isolate the high-risk groups.

Trend over time: is over‐representation widening or narrowing?

Contextual controls: factor in deprivation, school exclusions, employment status, neighbourhood crime rates, policing intensity.

Offence type breakdown: non-fatal vs fatal, robbery vs gang violence vs domestic, to see which parts of “knife crime” are driving the disparity.

Policing / detection bias: consider if certain communities are more heavily policed, which may influence who is identified as perpetrator. For instance, over-use of stop & search in black communities could inflate detection rates vs other groups. (Some evidence exists: e.g., black males in London are far more likely to be stopped and searched).

Structural causation: emphasise that ethnicity itself is not a causal factor, but rather the interplay of multiple risk factors often correlated with ethnicity (poverty, urban disadvantage, young male age profile, gang exposure).

 

 

Thus, In short:

The article does highlight a concerning disproportion in certain knife-crime statistics for black Londoners, which is valid as a starting point.

However, it risks mis‐framing the issue by emphasising ethnicity in a way that may overshadow the more relevant drivers (age, gender, geography, socio-economic status, gang dynamics).

 

Saying that “blacks make up most knife crime” is misleading because it glosses over the nuance that most knife crime is committed by specific high-risk groups (often young males in deprived areas) and that ethnicity is a proxy rather than core cause.

 

The article lacks deeper analysis of rates, risk factors, context, and structural causes, which are essential to interpret the figures responsibly and avoid unfair stigma of an entire community.

 

Many people miss the nuance for the ease of a convenient 'sound-bite' - you have done just that, as has the media article you presented.

 

 

 

Are you using ChatGPT? 😄

 

You do realize all the excuses you come up with occur in White/Asian areas as well? You actually sound a lot like Joe Biden. 

 

 

The stats are there. If you're so desperate to make excuses for a Demographic or simply bury it rather than actually try to fix the problem that's up to you. Just remember, that's how Rotherham happened. 

 

 

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Have you ever considered that there could be an issue with second and third generation immigrants?

 

The statistics (when reluctantly released) certainly suggest that this could be the case. Perhaps they have not integrated properly and formed negative subcultures where knife crime is glorified, perhaps they feel resentful towards the country that offered a home to their parents or grandparents, perhaps race baiters in the media like Meghan Markle/Dr Shola convince them that the country is inherently racist and whip up anger? Perhaps they have glorified the country of their grandparents birth despite having never lived there? Perhaps they are the only poor people living in inner cities?

 

Who knows? But maybe if we admitted there is an issue we could start working towards some solutions instead of shouting racist at anyone who notices a pattern or sees the statistics from places like London? Maybe we could actually look into it? Crazy idea I know, that would require admitting there could be a problem and opening ourselves up to the R word.  

 

 

Perhaps there IS meaning beyond the individual facts. When a particular Demographic is committing a disproportional amount of one particular type of crime, one could say it is deeply irresponsible to just ignore that for the sake of political correctness like we did in Rotherham. It might be worth digging for meaning in order to understand the problem and prevent this cycle repeating rather than digging our heads into the sand, writing individual facts like "Choirboy from Cardiff kills 3 girls" and patting ourselves on the back for being so wonderfully kind.

Could there also not be concerns in the opposite to your suggestions?

 

There are so many people in UK who are oblivious to true facts. So many that truly believe non whites are not British. So many that label every Asian looking person as "illegal". So many that can't differentiate between different forms of migration. So many that believe anyone looking Asian is inUK on benefits with free housing, eating swans and people's dogs and cats 

 

The idea that migrants don't integrate because they don't want to could also be because they can't. Tolerance is needed on both sides.

 

I work with and have neighbours from many cultures, races and religions. We all get on because we look upon ourselves as colleagues and neighbours.

 

Does anyone remember the bullies at school? They picked on anyone that was different. What happened to those that were bullied? Some grew out of being bullied and became bullies themselves. Some, reading about criminals' back grounds became murderers, racists, pedophiles. Not all but a small minority. That is quite possibly what's happening here. 

 

This stabbing is a very sad incident. It needs to be investigated. The suspect needs to be punished. Social media reports, such as this one, where the race, religion, upbringing and ideology of the suspect are assumed by the armchair reporters doesn't help.

 

By the way, no, I'm not a lefty. I'm just someone who is aware that this wasn't the only serious crime on the day. There were murders, assaults, rapes, thefts, etc committed. Some by white British, others not. It could be asked, why weren't the other crimes reported on front pages?

3 hours ago, impulse said:

I'm more interested in why the MSM seems to want to hide the facts of the case(s). And not just this one.  If the stabber had been a pasty white guy, his photo would be all over the MSM.

That's not quiet true though, is it?

 

There are legal issues. There are laws protecting the innocent until proven guilty. The original charges for arrest had to be changed following the sad death of tge victim. The name of the suspect has been released. It's not difficult, via a few searches, to find out his/her likely ethnicity, if it matters to you that much.

 

Remember the train stabbings from last week? The suspect there was labeled on social media, including on here, as an Islamic, illegal immigrant. How wrong was that?

6 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I did a quick web search and could not find a photo of the guy.

 

I wonder why?  NOT.

Agree 100%

 

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

White (colonial?) guilt is going to bring about the end of centuries of western culture.  In our lifetime, I'm afraid.

Agree 100 %, expose it all  now so future generations fight against systemic progressivism .

 

4 hours ago, JimCM said:

You are a racist.

The UK has grown more diverse, and this has brought enormous benefit in terms of culture, economy, innovation and social vitality.

When you blame “immigrants” or “Muslims” as a group for crime, you betray the principle that individuals are responsible for their actions - not whole ethnicities or religions.

Encouraging integration, opportunity, fairness and justice is what makes a society safe, not scapegoating.

As an immigrant yourself, your hypocrisy is outstanding.

Crime is overwhelmingly committed by British-born citizens.

Poverty, inequality, exclusion matter far more in many cases than immigration status. People who feel excluded or disadvantaged may turn to crime; addressing that is far more productive than blame.

You are delusional. We need all the illegals out of the country. Whilst in the country put them in a secured compound.

1 minute ago, Photoguy21 said:

You are delusional. We need all the illegals out of the country. Whilst in the country put them in a secured compound.

Was the suspect in this case an illegal? I've not seen anything suggesting he is. 

 

Did you know, a large number of illegal immigrants in UK are white Europeans? 

 

Your post is off topic.

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

Was the suspect in this case an illegal? I've not seen anything suggesting he is. 

 

Did you know, a large number of illegal immigrants in UK are white Europeans? 

 

Your post is off topic.

I don't care what colour they are. If they are in the country without proper documentation then kick them out. The chances are the person committing this atrocity was from somewhere outside of Europe.

Irrespective the penalty that has been cancelled for a number of years needs to be reinstated for such crimes

5 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

I don't care what colour they are. If they are in the country without proper documentation then kick them out. The chances are the person committing this atrocity was from somewhere outside of Europe.

Irrespective the penalty that has been cancelled for a number of years needs to be reinstated for such crimes

You need to start your own topic. Your comments are irrelevant to this one.

The suspect .....

Djeison Rafael appeared at Birmingham Magistrates Court this morning, accused of murdering 34-year-old Katie Fox, who was stabbed on Smallbrook Queensway shortly before 9pm on Friday (7 November).

 

Wearing a grey t-shirt and flanked by two dock officers who removed his handcuffs as he faced District Judge John Bristow, Rafael was told to be quiet and look forward as he interrupted the six-minute hearing multiple times.

 

The 21-year-old, of Rosedale Avenue in Smethwick, is also charged with two counts of causing actual bodily harm on 27 October and 7 November, possession of a Stanley blade on 7 November and assaulting a detention escort officer on 8 November.

 

https://www.itv.com/news/central/2025-11-10/man-accused-of-stabbing-woman-34-in-neck-appears-in-court-charged-with-murder

2 hours ago, JimCM said:

Disgusting, you, as usual, are trying to turn this into an anti Islam thing when the OP is about a black British.

His photo looks more Arabic than black.

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Are you using ChatGPT? 😄

 

You do realize all the excuses you come up with occur in White/Asian areas as well? You actually sound a lot like Joe Biden. 

 

 

 

The stats are there. If you're so desperate to make excuses for a Demographic or simply bury it rather than actually try to fix the problem that's up to you. Just remember, that's how Rotherham happened. 

 

 

 

I’m glad you’re beginning to recognise what I’ve been saying all along - that the patterns I’m highlighting also appear in, and impact, White and Asian areas just as clearly.

 

You seem to be projecting a distinctly American racial framework onto the UK, without appreciating that this country is not the United States, and its race dynamics simply don’t map across. The narratives don’t translate.

 

And if we’re going down that road, why is the archetypal “disenfranchised gun nut” in the US almost always white?

 

You’re also missing the nuance here. You keep leaning toward the idea that Black people are disproportionately involved in knife crime in the UK, but I don’t buy that as a meaningful explanation. Race isn’t the root cause of knife crime.

 

No one stabs someone because they’re Black. People commit violent acts for a host of interconnected reasons: age, gender, geography, socio-economic pressure, the influence of gangs, local culture and lack of opportunity.

 

All else being equal, a White person is no less likely to stab someone than a Black person. They’re shaped by the same environment.

 

Race only enters the discussion because certain ethnic groups are over-represented in areas where all these risk factors collide. That makes race a correlated variable, not a causal one and the the root causes lie in social conditions.

 

A Black kid in a deprived neighbourhood is at risk of being a victim or an aggressor. A White kid in a deprived deprived neighbourhood faces the same risk of being a victim or an aggressor.

 

The risk is the deprivation, not the colour, knife crime is environmental, not racial.

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

If you're so desperate to make excuses for a Demographic or simply bury it rather than actually try to fix the problem that's up to you. Just remember, that's how Rotherham happened.

 

You’re misunderstanding causality. Knife crime is fundamentally environmental.

 

You’ve further muddied the waters by dragging Rotherham into the discussion. That’s a cultural and criminal issue of a very different nature, and it has nothing to do with the causal roots of knife crime in the UK. Comparing the two is a category error.

 

I agree with your broader point that identifiable patterns exist - but they must be interpreted properly. Race is not the driver of knife crime. The real causes are structural: deprivation, age dynamics, social instability, territorial pressure, fractured family systems and gang networks (amongst many).

 

Race appears in the statistics only because certain ethnic groups are more present in areas where these conditions intersect. It’s an outcome, a signal, not the cause. And yes - you can’t ignore that signal entirely. It highlights communities that need better support, more guidance, tighter local governance and real investment.

 

The East End of London is a perfect example. It was once infamous for violence and street crime, not because White people were inherently more prone to stabbing or mugging, but because the area was desperately poor, neglected and under-privileged. The environmental pressure created the criminal patterns - not ethnicity.

 

That’s the same principle at work today.

 

 

6 hours ago, JimCM said:

What question?

“Why do you consider it racism when race should be part of description of a fleeing criminal?”

12 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I did a quick web search and could not find a photo of the guy.

 

I wonder why?  NOT.

 No photo (yet) but this gives a good idea for all the AN racists:-

 

Rafael, who is a Black British national, has been remanded to appear before magistrates in Birmingham on Monday 10th November 2025.

 

https://www.westmidlands.police.uk/news/west-midlands/news/news/2025/november/man-charged-with-attempted-murder-after-birmingham-stabbing/

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

…because JonnyF's implication appeared to had very little to do with describing the attacker and everything to do with insinuating that the attacker’s race was somehow a central cause of the incident.

It was.

35 minutes ago, BangkokHank said:

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

…because JonnyF's implication appeared to had very little to do with describing the attacker and everything to do with insinuating that the attacker’s race was somehow a central cause of the incident.

It was.

 

It was because he is black that he stabbed someone, you mean ????? 

 

By that reasoning, you must soil yourself every time you walk past someone with darker skin - after all, according to your understanding of genetics, people of colour are apparently evolved specifically to stab people.....  

21 hours ago, JimCM said:

You are a racist.

The UK has grown more diverse, and this has brought enormous benefit in terms of culture, economy, innovation and social vitality.

When you blame “immigrants” or “Muslims” as a group for crime, you betray the principle that individuals are responsible for their actions - not whole ethnicities or religions.

Encouraging integration, opportunity, fairness and justice is what makes a society safe, not scapegoating.

As an immigrant yourself, your hypocrisy is outstanding.

Crime is overwhelmingly committed by British-born citizens.

Poverty, inequality, exclusion matter far more in many cases than immigration status. People who feel excluded or disadvantaged may turn to crime; addressing that is far more productive than blame.

"The UK has grown more diverse, and this has brought enormous benefit in terms of culture, economy, innovation and social vitality." 

22 hours ago, JimCM said:

Are you really saying that they are more frequent knife crimes BECAUSE they are black?

What an utterly racist post. How about restricting black immigrants and only accept white ones?

 

The number of thumbs-down reactions we received says a lot about how deeply ingrained racism still is among some of these posters.

 

They’re not engaging with nuance – they’re locked in binary thinking, unable or unwilling to grasp that violence has complex roots. They seem to believe that these stabbings occurred simply because the aggressors are Black, rather than recognising the environmental issues that shape such behaviour.

 

That’s not to excuse it or shift blame – those who commit violence still know it’s wrong. But to ignore the social, economic and psychological conditions that produce violent mindsets is to ignore causality itself. And if you can’t diagnose the cause, you’ll never cure the problem.

 

What’s truly worrying is the broader implication: this lack of critical thought. These are people living among us – driving, voting, making decisions – yet apparently incapable of even basic reasoning beyond prejudice. It’s a sobering reminder that stupidity, not malice, is often the more dangerous force.

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

"The UK has grown more diverse, and this has brought enormous benefit in terms of culture, economy, innovation and social vitality." 

 

I wonder if you could have displayed your racism any more profoundly....   

 

The result of the above mentioned 'benefits' is an undeniable net positive; racists fail to see this, blinded by their own prejudice, fixating only on the negatives while ignoring the countless ways diversity sustains and strengthens the very fabric of the nation.

On 11/11/2025 at 10:56 AM, JimCM said:

You are a racist.

The UK has grown more diverse, and this has brought enormous benefit in terms of culture, economy, innovation and social vitality.

When you blame “immigrants” or “Muslims” as a group for crime, you betray the principle that individuals are responsible for their actions - not whole ethnicities or religions.

Encouraging integration, opportunity, fairness and justice is what makes a society safe, not scapegoating.

As an immigrant yourself, your hypocrisy is outstanding.

Crime is overwhelmingly committed by British-born citizens.

Poverty, inequality, exclusion matter far more in many cases than immigration status. People who feel excluded or disadvantaged may turn to crime; addressing that is far more productive than blame.

Grow up.

31 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I wonder if you could have displayed your racism any more profoundly....   

 

The result of the above mentioned 'benefits' is an undeniable net positive; racists fail to see this, blinded by their own prejudice, fixating only on the negatives while ignoring the countless ways diversity sustains and strengthens the very fabric of the nation.

" countless ways diversity sustains and strengthens the very fabric of the nation."

Love the sarcasm....GOOD ONE!!.........

 

In case it's not sarcasm and you are for real, why don't you list the "countless ways diversity sustains and strengthens the very fabric of the nation."...??  We are talking about the UK!

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The number of thumbs-down reactions we received says a lot about how deeply ingrained racism still is among some of these posters.

 

No, it shows what a load of rubbish you are spouting. 😀

 

People can recognize patterns. They can understand government statistics. And more importantly they can spot an apologist making every excuse under the sun from a mile away and frankly they are sick of it. 

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

No, it shows what a load of rubbish you are spouting. 😀

 

People can recognize patterns. They can understand government statistics. And more importantly they can spot an apologist making every excuse under the sun from a mile away and frankly they are sick of it. 

Absolutely, just because he gets thumbs downs, a lot, he believes they are all racists, instead of just disagreeing with his comment?

43 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I wonder if you could have displayed your racism any more profoundly....   

 

The result of the above mentioned 'benefits' is an undeniable net positive; racists fail to see this, blinded by their own prejudice, fixating only on the negatives while ignoring the countless ways diversity sustains and strengthens the very fabric of the nation.

 

Yet you hate diversity of opinion and label anyone who has a different opinion about the 'benefits' of mass immigration, a racist. 

 

Britain is a failed experiment. A fractured society with a failing economy and huge unemployment where armed police protect synagogues and knife crime is off the charts in many major cities. Pockets of different cultures isolating themselves from each other. Public services failing due to numbers rising too quickly. Illegal immigrants flooding across borders. A chronic housing shortage. Migrants in hotels while veterans sleep rough. A 2 tier justice system that discriminates against the indigenous population. People being attacked for displaying the national flag. Rape gangs being brushed under the carpet for fear of police being labelled racist. People being sentenced to years for offensive tweets.

 

Some might say, an island of strangers. Others might say, approaching the status of failed state. 

 

But sure, Diversity is our greatest strength (3 times). 

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yet you hate diversity of opinion and label anyone who has a different opinion about the 'benefits' of mass immigration, a racist. 

 

Britain is a failed experiment. A fractured society with a failing economy and huge unemployment where armed police protect synagogues and knife crime is off the charts in many major cities. Pockets of different cultures isolating themselves from each other. Public services failing due to numbers rising too quickly. Illegal immigrants flooding across borders. A chronic housing shortage. Migrants in hotels while veterans sleep rough. A 2 tier justice system that discriminates against the indigenous population. People being attacked for displaying the national flag. Rape gangs being brushed under the carpet for fear of police being labelled racist. People being sentenced to years for offensive tweets.

 

Some might say, an island of strangers. Others might say, approaching the status of failed state. 

 

But sure, Diversity is our greatest strength (3 times). 

 

Even if your negativism was true, why not give the current government a chance to change things?  Judge them at the next election and vote accordingly.  In the meantime stop following hard-right bots and be more patriotic! 🇬🇧

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Even if your negativism was true, why not give the current government a chance to change things? 

 

Because they are clearly making things much worse, not better.

 

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Judge them at the next election and vote accordingly.  In the meantime stop following hard-right bots and be more patriotic! 🇬🇧

 

Unfortunately any open form of patriotism in Britain is classified as divisive/racist. 

 

Fortunately I live in Thailand where patriotism/nationalism is alive and well. Well done the Thais for rising above Western Liberal nonsense. 

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

agree with your broader point that identifiable patterns exist - but they must be interpreted properly. Race is not the driver of knife crime. The real causes are structural: deprivation, age dynamics, social instability, territorial pressure, fractured family systems and gang networks (amongst many).

Yep, and that pattern is ......... single non white Muslim males living on benefits.

25 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yet you hate diversity of opinion and label anyone who has a different opinion about the 'benefits' of mass immigration, a racist. 

 

Britain is a failed experiment. A fractured society with a failing economy and huge unemployment where armed police protect synagogues and knife crime is off the charts in many major cities. Pockets of different cultures isolating themselves from each other. Public services failing due to numbers rising too quickly. Illegal immigrants flooding across borders. A chronic housing shortage. Migrants in hotels while veterans sleep rough. A 2 tier justice system that discriminates against the indigenous population. People being attacked for displaying the national flag. Rape gangs being brushed under the carpet for fear of police being labelled racist. People being sentenced to years for offensive tweets.

 

Some might say, an island of strangers. Others might say, approaching the status of failed state. 

 

But sure, Diversity is our greatest strength (3 times). 

What people like Jonny fail to realise is that the children of immigrants go to British schools and are growing up with their British counterparts, developing local accents and lingo. They may wear Muslim headdress but they're chatting to their English schoolfriends about the usual teenage stuff. 

The teenage Muslim girls are not going to accept a forced life at home bringing up babies.

You already see it in shops like pharmacies where Muslim women in their twenties serve customers.

I'm all for stopping the boats and limiting migration because the UK is a small country and resources are stretched to breaking point but a native British only island would be a terribly dull place.

Dreadful food and dull church services on Sundays.

13 minutes ago, bannork said:

people like Jonny fail to realise is that the children of immigrants go to British schools and are growing up with their British counterparts, developing local accents and lingo. They may wear Muslim headdress but they're chatting to their English schoolfriends about the usual teenage stuff. 

The teenage Muslim girls are not going to accept a forced life at home bringing up babies.

But the current crop come to the UK with no women, and no hope of ever having women. I don't think you've ever visited the countries they come from, the poor Muslim men have no access to women.

 

And the female children of Muslim families brought up in the UK don't want them either. These women like their education and freedom of choice.