Global Correction

[midas]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

[flying]

Ok you want a really good laugh in all this doom & Gloom?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/careers/default.htm

That is the Fed Reserve jobs/careers available.

Look at the 1st job in the list that is open.

Job Descriptions

Economist

Research Assistant

Information Technology Professional

Financial Analyst/Bank Examiner

Attorney

Other Professional

Law Enforcement Professional

Operations & Administration

Internships

Cooperative Education Program

You cannot make up sh&t like this

Will the last one leaving the USA please turn out the lights

Edited January 13, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

[flying]

Latest thoughts from one of the words leading experts on economic cycles:

http://www.contrahour.com/contrahour/2009/...depression.html

LB do you know if this was just written?

I was just curious as in it he said *if* oil closes above 40 in 2008 then....

Made me wonder when he actually wrote this. I know he is incarcerated. I also know he is brilliant

Thanks

[midas]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

If they are not " covered " ........who picks up the tab in the end then..................?

who ends up without the chair to sit on..............?

[Naam]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

If they are not " covered " ........who picks up the tab in the end then..................?

who ends up without the chair to sit on..............?

there is no such thing like a tab to be picked up if the creditor who bought the CDS receives from the debtor his coupons on time and his principle at maturity. an equivalent claim "tab to be picked up" can be made using any insurance company. buying a CDS is basically nothing else than getting insurance and pay the premiums. tabs are only picked up and have to be cleared if and when an accident occurs. one of the main problems in the threads of Thaivisa is that people are using expressions and make irrelevant assumptions without knowing what the EFF they are talking about. others know what they are talking about but offer some facts they picked, twist them according to their whims and then present completely irrelevant results

[lannarebirth]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

While I believe Marty Armstrong to be a true genius and his contributions to cyclic study to be unparallelled, I agree with your sentiments here. Counterparty risk can be mitigated in a number of ways, but until there is a regulated transparent market for CDS it will be very hard to track just how that is proceeding. I think JPM absorbing BS was a good first step in removing counterparty risk (note the $USD bottomed the next trading day) and I expect to see more megers like that.

[lannarebirth]

Latest thoughts from one of the words leading experts on economic cycles:

http://www.contrahour.com/contrahour/2009/...depression.html

LB do you know if this was just written?

I was just curious as in it he said *if* oil closes above 40 in 2008 then....

Made me wonder when he actually wrote this. I know he is incarcerated. I also know he is brilliant

Thanks

In December I believe, flying.

[midas]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

If they are not " covered " ........who picks up the tab in the end then..................?

who ends up without the chair to sit on..............?

there is no such thing like a tab to be picked up if the creditor who bought the CDS receives from the debtor his coupons on time and his principle at maturity. an equivalent claim "tab to be picked up" can be made using any insurance company. buying a CDS is basically nothing else than getting insurance and pay the premiums. tabs are only picked up and have to be cleared if and when an accident occurs. one of the main problems in the threads of Thaivisa is that people are using expressions and make irrelevant assumptions without knowing what the EFF they are talking about. others know what they are talking about but offer some facts they picked, twist them according to their whims and then present completely irrelevant results

I have never claimed to know a lot about these CDS - but then I dont think I am the only one out there ?

The author of the article in which that passage was taken seems to know his stuff.............but are you

saying its rubbish ........?

[flying]

January 12, 2009

Stimulating Our Way to Rock Bottom

by Ron Paul

http://www.safehaven.com/article-12307.htm

With attention turning to the next big economic stimulus package, questions are still swirling about our economic troubles. How did we get here? How do we get out? As usual, Washington has all the wrong answers. According to many politicians, we got here by not spending enough, not consuming enough, and not regulating enough. Now government, like some mythical white knight, is going to ride in to save the day by blanketing the economy with dollars, hiring an army of new bureaucrats, creating make-work jobs, and sending everyone some form of a bailout check. The debate seems to focus on whether this will cost enough to save the economy, or if this is just a "down payment" with much more government spending to come. Talk like that would be comical, if the results weren't going to be so tragic.

The results will be worsening economic woes until we learn our lesson. But instead Congress is behaving like drug addicts who must hit rock bottom before they are ready to face reality. They are playing foolish games with the economy now because they are thinking only of political expedience. This talk of job creation is a perfect example.

Contrary to the belief of many, the goal of the economy is not job creation. Jobs can be a sign of a healthy economy, as a high energy level can be a sign of a healthy body. But just as unhealthy substances can artificially give the addict that burst of energy that has nothing to do with health, artificially created jobs just exacerbate our problems. The goal of a healthy economy is productivity. Jobs are a positive outcome of that. A "job" could be to dig a hole one day, and fill it back up the next, or perhaps the equivalent at a desk. This does no one any good. But the value in that paycheck ultimately has to come from taxing someone productive. Some think this round-robin type of economic model is supposed to get us somewhere.

Politicians and bureaucrats have already done their fair share to ensure that jobs in the private sector are prohibitively complicated and expensive to create. They are now shocked that the economy is shedding jobs, and want to simply create hundreds of thousands of jobs to make up for the job losses, through another so-called economic stimulus package. The private sector must be permitted to do that, but instead they are massively burdened with taxes and webs of red tape and regulation. Washington's bandaids will only prolong this agony. The Austrian school of economics teaches that only a free market economy, unencumbered by onerous government controls, creates long-term prosperity. Politicians, however, tend to be notoriously short-sighted.

I am left with these questions - who is going to be left standing, to tax in the private sector, to pay for all these public sector make-work jobs? Is Washington really to be considered some sort of savior for creating unproductive jobs in place of the productive jobs they eliminated?

We are at an economic dead-end and those in power are in denial. The truth is our economic problems are due to loose monetary policy, central economic planning, and the parasitic expenses of government. Unless we assess these problems honestly, we unfortunately have a long way to go until, like the junkie, we hit rock bottom.

[Naam]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

If they are not " covered " ........who picks up the tab in the end then..................?

who ends up without the chair to sit on..............?

there is no such thing like a tab to be picked up if the creditor who bought the CDS receives from the debtor his coupons on time and his principle at maturity. an equivalent claim "tab to be picked up" can be made using any insurance company. buying a CDS is basically nothing else than getting insurance and pay the premiums. tabs are only picked up and have to be cleared if and when an accident occurs. one of the main problems in the threads of Thaivisa is that people are using expressions and make irrelevant assumptions without knowing what the EFF they are talking about. others know what they are talking about but offer some facts they picked, twist them according to their whims and then present completely irrelevant results

I have never claimed to know a lot about these CDS - but then I dont think I am the only one out there ?

The author of the article in which that passage was taken seems to know his stuff.............but are you

saying its rubbish ........?

was not pointing at you Midas as i was sure you posted a quote from somebody else. please note that i used plural "people are using expressions" / "others know what they are talking". besides, i don't really blame you for your wrong assumption concerning "picking up the tab". in fact that opened the possibility to set the record straight and explain in simple words what a CDS is.

nevertheless the $60 trillion (which have been mentioned before) will be definitely mentioned again by the "Bingobongos" of Thaivisaforum as well as by the "Bingobongos" and "Dooms & Glooms" worldwide.

[Naam]

The author of the article in which that passage was taken seems to know his stuff.............but are you

saying its rubbish ........?

rubbish is too nice an expression. i dare say it is bullshit -deliberately presented- meant to scare and bullshit those who are ignorant of the real implications. the facts (volume $60 trillion) are correct but the implications derived are false.

[Naam]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

While I believe Marty Armstrong to be a true genius and his contributions to cyclic study to be unparallelled, I agree with your sentiments here. Counterparty risk can be mitigated in a number of ways...

it does not matter how brilliant somebody is in whatever various points. that does not give him the right to tell others and insinuate that "circumstances exist which will most probably change the result of 2 plus 2 from = 4 to = 16.75".

[mommysboy]

Naam is correct in general; it's simply amazing how figures get misinterpreted. Even quality rags like the Times do it.

Nevertheless, some banks in UK, eg, RBS are taking 10 billion pound write downs with no end in sight it seems, so in a sense they are picking up a tab.

[Naam]

Naam is correct in general; it's simply amazing how figures get misinterpreted. Even quality rags like the Times do it.

Nevertheless, some banks in UK, eg, RBS are taking 10 billion pound write downs with no end in sight it seems, so in a sense they are picking up a tab.

nobody denies that the write down show will go on for some time. but even a few hundred billions don't make a trillion, not to talk about 60 trillion.

[lannarebirth]

Naam is correct in general; it's simply amazing how figures get misinterpreted. Even quality rags like the Times do it.

Nevertheless, some banks in UK, eg, RBS are taking 10 billion pound write downs with no end in sight it seems, so in a sense they are picking up a tab.

Misinterpretations, falsehoods and wild ass guesses are the byproducts of non-transparent markets. Oftentimes the analysis you see wil be based on either best or worst case scenarios depending on the bias/interests of the author. All to be taken with a large dose of salt.

[Naam]

Naam is correct in general; it's simply amazing how figures get misinterpreted. Even quality rags like the Times do it.

Nevertheless, some banks in UK, eg, RBS are taking 10 billion pound write downs with no end in sight it seems, so in a sense they are picking up a tab.

Misinterpretations, falsehoods and wild ass guesses are the byproducts of non-transparent markets. Oftentimes the analysis you see wil be based on either best or worst case scenarios depending on the bias/interests of the author. All to be taken with a large dose of salt.

but for the benefit of advice seeking members wild guesses should be avoided as much as possible. i -for example- have no idea about technical analysis or chart techniques per se. my ignorance is based that i refuse to accept their validity and never bothered to learn anything about it. but that also means that i am not qualified and should not cite or quote in this respect third parties, take them as granted AND add my 2 Satangs of lacking wisdom.

[Chaimai]

Information vs mis-information ?

Technical charts are one thing but it is becoming increasingly difficult to understand what news reports are actually saying. A couple of examples from the UK:-

The first one is a report fron the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors who say that house prices fell by 8.6% in the year to 30 November 2008.

The second report is the nationwide Building Society report that quotes a price fall of 15.9% in the year to December 2008.

They can't both be right, can they ??

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090113/tuk-r...es-6323e80.html

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090106/tuk-u...-fa6b408_1.html

[lannarebirth]

Naam is correct in general; it's simply amazing how figures get misinterpreted. Even quality rags like the Times do it.

Nevertheless, some banks in UK, eg, RBS are taking 10 billion pound write downs with no end in sight it seems, so in a sense they are picking up a tab.

Misinterpretations, falsehoods and wild ass guesses are the byproducts of non-transparent markets. Oftentimes the analysis you see wil be based on either best or worst case scenarios depending on the bias/interests of the author. All to be taken with a large dose of salt.

but for the benefit of advice seeking members wild guesses should be avoided as much as possible. i -for example- have no idea about technical analysis or chart techniques per se. my ignorance is based that i refuse to accept their validity and never bothered to learn anything about it. but that also means that i am not qualified and should not cite or quote in this respect third parties, take them as granted AND add my 2 Satangs of lacking wisdom.

Martin Armstrong doesn't make guesses. He's one of the most accurate economic cycles forecasters ever. That doesn't mean he'll be right in this instance, but it means, that with me a least, he has credibility (or I wouldn't have posted it). Like you, I think he has assumed some facts not in evidence, but none of that is important to cycles work. The details are mostly irrelevant and I'm a little surprised he would include them (right or wrong though they may be), and would have preferred he'd explained more of his cycles work to the uninitiated.

[VegasVic]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

Nice comeback to Mr. Midas' s ignorant rant Naam I could take the time here to explain to Midas how the great derivative unwinding is coming along and what the end game is, but I would rather head out to the driving range and hit a bucket of balls, besides it might be a bit over his head

[Naam]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

Nice comeback to Mr. Midas' s ignorant rant Naam I could take the time here to explain to Midas how the great derivative unwinding is coming along and what the end game is, but I would rather head out to the driving range and hit a bucket of balls, besides it might be a bit over his head

let's be fair Vic, Midas did not rant. his wrong assumption was based on the quote from (according to LRB) a " brilliant and famous guru" . we also don't know whether the quote was out of context or whether the famous guru added an explanation to his mentioning the meanwhile notoric and infamous $60 trillion derivatives.

[Naam]

Naam is correct in general; it's simply amazing how figures get misinterpreted. Even quality rags like the Times do it.

Nevertheless, some banks in UK, eg, RBS are taking 10 billion pound write downs with no end in sight it seems, so in a sense they are picking up a tab.

Misinterpretations, falsehoods and wild ass guesses are the byproducts of non-transparent markets. Oftentimes the analysis you see wil be based on either best or worst case scenarios depending on the bias/interests of the author. All to be taken with a large dose of salt.

but for the benefit of advice seeking members wild guesses should be avoided as much as possible. i -for example- have no idea about technical analysis or chart techniques per se. my ignorance is based that i refuse to accept their validity and never bothered to learn anything about it. but that also means that i am not qualified and should not cite or quote in this respect third parties, take them as granted AND add my 2 Satangs of lacking wisdom.

Martin Armstrong doesn't make guesses. He's one of the most accurate economic cycles forecasters ever. That doesn't mean he'll be right in this instance, but it means, that with me a least, he has credibility (or I wouldn't have posted it). Like you, I think he has assumed some facts not in evidence, but none of that is important to cycles work. The details are mostly irrelevant and I'm a little surprised he would include them (right or wrong though they may be), and would have preferred he'd explained more of his cycles work to the uninitiated.

how does his cycles work relate to the "implosion of $60 trillion derivatives"? i have done excellent jobs on gasturbines and cooling cycles of power plants but i wouldn't dare to draw conclusions how wallpaper is fixed.

[midas]

The credit-default swaps are alone worth about $60 trillion. .................................................We have no way

of covering this level of implosion. Add the unfunded entitlements and then the state and local debts

who cannot print money to cover their shortfall s, and we are looking at a contraction of debt that is simply

beyond all contemplation.

And to think that Vegas Vic assured us that everything would be " over " by 2010

and who said that this level has to be covered? analog to it is the claim "xx thousands of nuclear weapons exist. the planet will not survive once they explode". the posting of facts extrapolated by fiction resulting in bullshitting the uninformed has become extremely boring.

Nice comeback to Mr. Midas' s ignorant rant Naam I could take the time here to explain to Midas how the great derivative unwinding is coming along and what the end game is, but I would rather head out to the driving range and hit a bucket of balls, besides it might be a bit over his head

Thank you Naam............

And Vegas Vic I would have no interest whatsoever in listening to your explanation

because as with everything else you write about it would probably be wrong anyway

[midas]

The author of the article in which that passage was taken seems to know his stuff.............but are you

saying its rubbish ........?

rubbish is too nice an expression. i dare say it is bullshit -deliberately presented- meant to scare and bullshit those who are ignorant of the real implications. the facts (volume $60 trillion) are correct but the implications derived are false.

Naam............

after your comment I have been reading a few resources myself about CDS

to try to get a better understanding of these" instruments ".

I found this link which coincidentally by another person called Martin.

http://www.moneymorning.com/2008/04/02/cre...illion-problem/

He talks about $50 trillion ( 50 -60 who cares about 10 trillion these days ? )

Your comment that CDS are " basically nothing else than getting insurance

and pay the premiums " is understandable, but what this Martin

explains is that :-

" If an originating bank sells its loan exposure only once, and

sells it to a financial firm of undoubtedly solid credit, the

CDS does indeed act as a hedge for the originating bank;

it transfers the company's credit risk from the bank to the financial firm that

bought its CDS.

But the product did not work as advertised.

Salesmen and traders took over, and expanded the volume far

beyond what was required for hedging.

Therefore, bank traders sold the credit risk of a loan not just once, but as many as

10 times. And they sold it not to solid banks and insurance companies, but to

three solid banks, one solid insurance company, three dodgy brokers and three

hedge funds. Then the traders went out and sold other CDS products that were

not even related to actual loans on the books, but to imaginary indices of credit

quality in the "widget" industry. "

is it possible that this is what Martin Armstrong was alluding to?

[midas]

Naam............

and yesterday when I used the terminology " who picks up the tab "

I probably used the wrong expression...........-it is this situation

below which I actually had in mind

" Suddenly home mortgages along with corporate credit and other types of consumer credit are in question and loss rates, which were very low in 2005-06, are soaring.

That spells big trouble for credit default swaps.

If just 10% of CDS underlying risks go bust, somewhere in the financial system there will be $5 trillion in losses.

Yes, there could well be $5 trillion of profits elsewhere in the system, because derivative transactions theoretically balance out. But once defaults start piling up, it’s possible that many of those losses will become real, while the profits simply won’t.

For example, hedge funds that have offered credit protection on risks far in excess of their current capital will quickly be unable to pay claims. Their counterparties will suffer unexpected losses, even though they thought they were protected by a CDS.

There are two sources of likely loss on CDS:

* Default by the underlying borrowers, the companies that originally took out the loans.

* And default by the banks or other financial firms that bought the credit default swap - counterparties in the endless chain of banks, insurance companies, hedge funds and general riff-raff that have done these deals.

Since the total outstanding balance of the CDS market is $50 trillion, compared with the entire U.S. home mortgage market at about $11 trillion and the subprime part of that market at only $1 trillion, you can see why people are worried. "

[flying]

Since the total outstanding balance of the CDS market is $50 trillion, compared with the entire U.S. home mortgage market at about $11 trillion and the subprime part of that market at only $1 trillion, you can see why people are worried. "

You know at the end of the day what does it all mean?

If it all went belly up tomorrow....All these CDS holding companies...heck all the banks & all the financial wizards companies.....If it all went kapoot...What does it mean to you personally?

Just curious as it is something I wonder about myself

Open question to anyone actually

Edited January 14, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

Since the total outstanding balance of the CDS market is $50 trillion, compared with the entire U.S. home mortgage market at about $11 trillion and the subprime part of that market at only $1 trillion, you can see why people are worried. "

You know at the end of the day what does it all mean? If it all went belly up tomorrow....All these CDS holding companies...heck all the banks & all the financial wizards companies.....If it all went kapoot... What does it mean to you personally? Just curious as it is something I wonder about myself Open question to anyone actually

answer my question and i will answer yours Flying:

"if the united armed forces of the Klingon Empire are in future not able to stop the Borg from attacking the earth what would that mean to you personally?"

[flying]

You know at the end of the day what does it all mean? If it all went belly up tomorrow....All these CDS holding companies...heck all the banks & all the financial wizards companies.....If it all went kapoot... What does it mean to you personally? Just curious as it is something I wonder about myself Open question to anyone actually

answer my question and i will answer yours Flying:

"if the united armed forces of the Klingon Empire are in future not able to stop the Borg from attacking the earth what would that mean to you personally?"

Funny Klingon

You know I ask because Im sure that we all get caught up in all of this.

I know I do & I do not even understand a fraction of it Im sure but........

I think to myself at times if it all went to pot...these things that I do not fully understand what is the worst that could happen?

Would I go hungry....No

Would I be without shelter...No

Do I have enough to protect my family...Yes

So I was curious what others like midas are worried about when they ....

you can see why people are worried.

I was just curious...Is it the loss of a way of life etc.

Edited January 14, 2009 by flying

[midas]

Since the total outstanding balance of the CDS market is $50 trillion, compared with the entire U.S. home mortgage market at about $11 trillion and the subprime part of that market at only $1 trillion, you can see why people are worried. "

You know at the end of the day what does it all mean?

If it all went belly up tomorrow....All these CDS holding companies...heck all the banks & all the financial wizards companies.....If it all went kapoot...What does it mean to you personally?

Just curious as it is something I wonder about myself

Open question to anyone actually

Flying

surely the point in all this is that no one knows for sure! We are in such

uncharted waters-when was the last time the financial system was facing

such potentially large and unquantifiable losses? Surely we don't know for certain

what the implications of all this to the financial system?

Yes if it all collapsed many of us could still find a way to ' live '

may be we would have to make some big adjustments.

The people I have most respect for in this thread are those that

poise the question and contribute information but don't profess to know

it all. And just as Chaimai said above, not all of us profess to know

the difference between the information and misinformation that is being

disseminated. The most we can do is consider it and discuss it.

People like Vegas Vic on the other hand come on this forum with such incredibly

naive statements such as everything will be back to normal in 2010

Vegas Vic often reminds me of a General Motors car salesman

compelling me to buy one of his cars and guaranteeing

the company will not go broke

Vegas Vic please remember " "In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate"

[flying]

Flying

surely the point in all this is that no one knows for sure! We are in such

uncharted waters-when was the last time the financial system was facing

such potentially large and unquantifiable losses? Surely we don't know for certain

what the implications of all this to the financial system?

Yes if it all collapsed many of us could still find a way to ' live '

may be we would have to make some big adjustments.

"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate"

Yes I know none knows so therefore I ask is that what your afraid of? The unknown?

I just am wondering thats all.

At the same time you said it all in that last line didn't you