Opening A Business

[iyah]

Hi everyone,

Ok, so i've been living in Thailand for 2 years now and i'm seriously thinking about starting a business (opening a 'juice bar and more'). I'm pretty clueless concerning the whole process and obviously have a lot to learn before i can do this. If anyone of you would be kind enough to give me a few clues, that would be a start. I guess the first step is finding a place to rent (or buy?). Then i'm guessing that you have to create a company and buy some license...are foreigners allowed to own businesses ? I have a thai partner that i trust 100%. My budget is limited (under 1 million bhat). Is it realistic to want to start a business with that kind of money? Also would that qualify me for getting a business visa? Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

Edited August 18, 2007 by iyah

[Nongwahyay]

Sorry to say this, but you sound so clueless as regards business is concerned, that I can only advise you to put your million Baht into a bank account and leave it there............

[blizzard]

hope you going to include liquor in your juices. anyone who asks how to do business here is cluless, including me......lol.

[iyah]

hehe cheer up mate

Yes, the money will stay in my bank account until i have learned everything i need to learn in that field....and believe it or not, i did major in 'business economics' in college

Edited August 18, 2007 by iyah

[crewcut]

Never set up a business in my name but I think you need to invest at least 2 million.

Why not rent a little shop in your name for 1,2,3 years with an option to extend, put the business licences in your Thai friends name, don't spend too much on a shop fit and give it a go!

Good Luck.

[Nongwahyay]

Never set up a business in my name but I think you need to invest at least 2 million.

Why not rent a little shop in your name for 1,2,3 years with an option to extend, put the business licences in your Thai friends name, don't spend too much on a shop fit and give it a go!

Good Luck.

I think you´ve got your priorities wrong here...... FIRST you must have the business idea........THAT will determine how much you need to invest......and THEN rent a shop, if needed..........

[Cyberstar]

... i'm seriously thinking about starting a business (opening a 'juice bar and more') ... I guess the first step is finding a place to rent (or buy?) ... Then i'm guessing that you have to create a company and buy some license...are foreigners allowed to own businesses? ... I have a thai partner that i trust 100% ... My budget is limited (under 1 million bhat) ... Is it realistic to want to start a business with that kind of money? ... would that qualify me for getting a business visa?

If you're truly serious about the issue, I can recommend you to do what i did about 3 years ago, when i I was "studying" how to go about starting some street level business in Thailand ... The archive of this forum contains a tremendous wealth of info provided by guys with first hand experience, replies from professional lawyers, etc. ... I can assure you, just about each and every imaginable pebble relevant to your query has been tossed, turned over and scrutinized about a million times. on this board.

I can guarantee that if you aren't pretty well clued in after having browsed back - let's say 40-60 pages - you'll remain forever clueless regardless of whatever people may try to teach you --- and if you don't feel like putting in that sort of effort - well, stick to the advice given above and keep your money in the bank. You won't make it without a lot of serious effort.

[iyah]

Thanks for you answers so far. I will try to pick up all the usefull info i can get out of the forum's archives. I am actually a serious and dedicated person. I am definately willing to learn and put all the effort needed.

i was just hoping to get a few 'guidelines' to get started. For instance, is it a prerequisite to have 2 million baht capital? How do i go about getting a visa and work permit (is renting a shop in my name,getting a license and opening a business enough to qualify for a visa) ? ...will be looking for info in the archives

Thanks

Edited August 18, 2007 by iyah

[Sateev]

Sorry to say this, but you sound so clueless as regards business is concerned, that I can only advise you to put your million Baht into a bank account and leave it there............

It never ceases to amaze me that people post the <deleted> above. Either the poster knows absolutely nothing about business himself, and just wants to piss in someone else's beer, or is to lazy to post something useful.

Everybody starts out knowing nothing. Ostensibly, this forum is a place to start remedying that lack of knowledge. The OP deserves at least a pointer, as has been supplied by subsequent posters. Or were you just looking for somewhere to post a non-sequitur or two?

So, Nongwahyay, please regale us with some of your vast business experience. Do you make a lot waiting tables in Berlin? Is it enough that you can appear in Nongbualamphu avery couple of ears, and claim expert status in Thai business?

I'm dying to know.

Not.

Sateev

[rasameeyarn]

Thanks for you answers so far. I will try to pick up all the usefull info i can get out of the forum's archives. I am actually a serious and dedicated person. I am definately willing to learn and put all the effort needed.

i was just hoping to get a few 'guidelines' to get started. For instance, is it a prerequisite to have 2 million baht capital? How do i go about getting a visa and work permit (is renting a shop in my name,getting a license and opening a business enough to qualify for a visa) ? ...will be looking for info in the archives

Thanks

pls see info about biz start up from www.thairegistration.com

[torrenova]

OK, I have a 1000 ideas, discount 900 immediately, think about 100, discount 90, investigate 10 then perhaps and only perhaps invest in 1 after a thorough business plan is developed.

So you want a juice bar and more. Lets forget the "and more" for now.

Firstly, and very simply, where are you ? If you want to open it in a small agricultural and casual labour village forget it. Their luxury is Bt5 for the ice cream man on a bike smoking home grown "tobacco".

Don't look at cars and pick ups for signs of new found prosperity. Everyone wants a car despite holes in the house roof and when they get behind on payments, it goes back to the garage. You need better indicators. Look what the stores sell, when they are selling semi luxury goods on a regular basis then perhaps there is some disposable income.

When you find your location, source your costs. Remember, you cannot work, so who will, for how long and for how much. How much will they steal ? how much will they steal ? how much will they steal ? How will you control stock ?

If you can source your products to charge a production premium and feel able to sell the product then do some testing and market research. Don't pay any old Thai as they will just take your money and run away or give you dud info. You need empirical data here. Do they like it ? how much would they pay for it ? how often ? how many of them are there ? what age groups ? etc.

If you get through that stage, you need to work out a premesis, staffing and marketing / advertising. Try for an early exit option on your side only on your lease. Pay more for this. Don't put too much capital into furnishings or on too large a premises. Use the KISS principle.

You need a grand opening and a budget for that and the following month to lose money perhaps with discounted products. Free samples in some areas perhaps. You have to get the message across.

Anything more and I'll charge by the hourly rate. Of the 1 idea I go with, most of those fail at some point before implementation but often come back again in derivative form. Don't give up but don't blow everything and remember that if you reall yhave only Bt1m, then you can spend rounghly only 350k-500k before you open. The rest is for after you open.

[Chang_paarp]

If you go to the front page of this web site (not just the forum home) there are a number of links to start with. They outline the various things needed to start a business. Read through the archive on this section there is a huge amount of information there too.

A couple of things that need to be said.

Do you have any business experience?

Are you familiar with the industry you are looking to enter?

Why Thailand?

Are you an American? If so look at the information on the Amnity treaty.

Do you have some Thai partners?

Are you aware the Foreign Business Act is under review and you might have some grief when they pass the new legislation?

Do you have a business plan?

Are you familiar with the vagaries of doing business in Thailand?

Have you spent some time in Thailand? Not just holidays.

When you have looked at these things you might want to start to look for a lawyer. One place to start is the forum sponsor Sunbelt Asia, just click on the advert at the top of the page. They are responsible for a large amount of the informed information you will find in the archives. There are other people in the industry but they do not sponsor this site.

Good luck you might get more useful answers when you have specific questions. Then again you might get some <deleted> who is having a bad day and will give you a nonsense answer too.

[cclub75]

Ok, so i've been living in Thailand for 2 years now and i'm seriously thinking about starting a business (opening a 'juice bar and more'). I'm pretty clueless concerning the whole process and obviously have a lot to learn before i can do this.

Indeed...

First, because you business is service related, you are falling into List 3 of the Foreign Business Act.

For more details about FBA : here

But, no problemo, the thai authorities are sweet : list 3 is forbidden for foreign owned company, "unless" you obtain a special "licence"...

You'll surely enjoy to look at the... nice guide that describes the process, courtesy of the Department of Business Development. Red tape and duplicity are so sweet...

Here : http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/Application.pdf

Then, eventually, you'll love to learn that thai authorities are pushing for... an even harder FBA (by amending the current law), that would close the loopholes that allowed foreign investors, before, to bypass the law (nominees and dual class shares).

Again, details are everywhere.

Bottom line : the only solution is to create a "thai" company. But again FBA 2 could prevent that. Or to create a "genuine" thai company, in which... you would have absolutly no control (owned by your thai wife for instance).

It could be like to have to choose between 2 plagues

Voila a quick review of the current situation (that evolves on a day to day basis in Thailand, that's part of the charm)...

Edited August 28, 2007 by cclub75

[iyah]

Hadn't check the thread in a while (thought it 'died out'). Thanks a lot for your replies.

Torrenova, the thing is that I want to work in the business, thats why from what i understand i need a 2 million bahts captal. The 'and more' part of the 'Juice bar and more' is what will make it special/set it apart from similar places. I'd rather not get into the details now.

And yes, i know that (having a good) location is a key factor.

Chang paarp, i have read through the archives (50 pages back) and i can't say that they answered all of my questions. I will look into the other links you mentioned and will get back with specific questions. Let me try to (briefly) answer your questions. Thanks for asking them.

Do you have any business experience?

Nope

Are you familiar with the industry you are looking to enter?

I have some (quiet a lot) of knowledge in health/nutrition (being a vegan/vegetarian/raw foodist for 12 years) and a lot of knowledge in the 'and more' part of my project (sorry if i'm not being very clear).....but not sure if that qualify as knowledge in 'the industry'. I want to open this business out of passion for the service/goods i would be providing.

Why Thailand?

Because i have been living here for over 2 years and plan to stay here long term.

(Are you an American? If so look at the information on the Amnity treaty.

I have dual citizenship but i'm currently on my american passport. Will look at the Amnity treaty.

Do you have some Thai partners?

My GF. We've been together for 2 years. I intend to marry here in the future.

Are you aware the Foreign Business Act is under review and you might have some grief when they pass the new legislation?

I just read about it. Dont really know what to make out of it, meaning to what extent it will actually be inforced.

Do you have a business plan?

Will definately have one ready before i invest any money.

Are you familiar with the vagaries of doing business in Thailand?

No

Have you spent some time in Thailand? Not just holidays

Ya

Cclub 75, thanks for the links. Again, i'm interested in working in the business so i would have to be the owner in order to do that i believe.

[FatBoyEric]

Hi everyone,

Ok, so i've been living in Thailand for 2 years now and i'm seriously thinking about starting a business (opening a 'juice bar and more'). I'm pretty clueless concerning the whole process and obviously have a lot to learn before i can do this. If anyone of you would be kind enough to give me a few clues, that would be a start. I guess the first step is finding a place to rent (or buy?). Then i'm guessing that you have to create a company and buy some license...are foreigners allowed to own businesses ? I have a thai partner that i trust 100%. My budget is limited (under 1 million bhat). Is it realistic to want to start a business with that kind of money? Also would that qualify me for getting a business visa? Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

talk to the nice ppl. at SunbeltAsia.

[Nickthegreek]

I thought I would add some first had experience,I having been in Thailand for the last year,I have sucessfully opened two businesses.I do not profess to be an expert,but I believe there are options that are open to you.

When I first opened my LTD company 10 months ago,it was as a 37% shareholder,as I understand it this has a tendency to lower the spotlight on the amount of money you have to invest,I did however have the required money,but no-one ever checked.Once the company was up and running,I then had it converted to a 49% shareholding.

What no-one tells you though is,if you follow this route and try to stay legal and work,you have to pay tax payments,which in my opinon are heavilly inflated,but its not worth getting on a soap box about,its the way it is,of 5,500 baht per month and then have,if you want to work, four thai employees,which will cost you another 2000 Baht per month.Once all this is said and done,you will want to get your visa extension.

As I understand it,after the first year immigation will expect your business to make profit and pay more tax,before they will issue you with another visa extension,based on work( i would be grateful if someone would clarify this)It did say Pattaya immigration.! and I am not in Pattaya.

So if you take the rent for you business which will probably be about 10,000 per month and then add on your taxes, plus fuel and light,you will need to make at least 30/40000 baht per month to break even.

I have just opened my second business which is the same as the first,but this one is in my wifes name and much easier and to be fair cheaper.

I am lead to beleive,but again,I have yet to get to immigration with this senario,that if your wife(and you must be married) pays tax on a 40,000 baht per month,you will be able to gain a visa extension O based on marriage.

This is my plan for the second business,run it for six months to show the tax payments.

I would welcome any comments.

I hope that this has helped.

I would also like to add,that I came to Thailand for only five visits/holidays,gave up a 100,000 pounds a year job and I know have two sucessful business which both cost less that 1,000,000 baht to set up..!!!

So if you have an idea, the detemination to make it work,

a Thai partner that you can trust with the rest of your life and a good Thai solicitor,

then go for it.

I did and I have not looked back.

Good luck.

Nick

[iyah]

Thanks Nick for your input.

The more i look into it, the more it seems that it might be a lot easier and cheaper to put the business in my thai partner's name and give up any ownership/shares. Of course this would mean that i cant work in the shop and get a proper visa. Nevertheless, i would be able to 'be around' in the shop i suppose and do 'back office' work...any thoughts on that possibility?

Thanks

[a269652]

I am lead to beleive,but again, I have yet to get to immigration with this senario,that if your wife (and you must be married) pays tax on a 40,000 baht per month,you will be able to gain a visa extension O based on marriage.

This is my plan for the second business,run it for six months to show the tax payments.

Quite correct. I think it can be done using less than 6 months worth of tax payment.

[Chang_paarp]

I thought I would add some first had experience,I having been in Thailand for the last year,I have sucessfully opened two businesses.I do not profess to be an expert,but I believe there are options that are open to you.

When I first opened my LTD company 10 months ago,it was as a 37% shareholder,as I understand it this has a tendency to lower the spotlight on the amount of money you have to invest,I did however have the required money,but no-one ever checked.Once the company was up and running,I then had it converted to a 49% shareholding.

What no-one tells you though is,if you follow this route and try to stay legal and work,you have to pay tax payments,which in my opinon are heavilly inflated,but its not worth getting on a soap box about,its the way it is,of 5,500 baht per month and then have,if you want to work, four thai employees,which will cost you another 2000 Baht per month.Once all this is said and done,you will want to get your visa extension.

This is the amount of tax you would pay if you were paid the minimum for your nationality. For reasons best understood by the powers that be it varies from nationality to nationality, between B50-70,000 per month for falang. Cannot remember if it is for immigration or labour dept, so for visa or work permit. The joys of dealing with different dpartments with diferent sets of rules for essentially the same thing ie living and working here. The other thing is you need to show them the same paperwork each time you deal with each of them, so labour dept will not accept that you have shown the immigration the paperwork, they need to see the origonal papers themselves.

As I understand it,after the first year immigation will expect your business to make profit and pay more tax,before they will issue you with another visa extension,based on work( i would be grateful if someone would clarify this)It did say Pattaya immigration.! and I am not in Pattaya.

So if you take the rent for you business which will probably be about 10,000 per month and then add on your taxes, plus fuel and light,you will need to make at least 30/40000 baht per month to break even.

This is one of the joys of doing busines within LOS. Pattaya has very different requirements for visas. They want to see profit and in some cases cash on hand, to cover the salary for the falang. Other branches are satisfied to see cash flow to cover the salary. This is why a knowlegable and well connected lawyer is worth every satang you have to pay.

I have just opened my second business which is the same as the first,but this one is in my wifes name and much easier and to be fair cheaper.

I am lead to beleive,but again,I have yet to get to immigration with this senario,that if your wife(and you must be married) pays tax on a 40,000 baht per month,you will be able to gain a visa extension O based on marriage.

This is my plan for the second business,run it for six months to show the tax payments.

I would welcome any comments.

This is a visa based on marraige to a Thai citizen. The combined salary for the family has to be B30 or B40,000 per month, check with the immigration dept or a competant lawyer for details. This is not a work permit which requires different amounts. Remember you cannot work in your business without a work permit. Signing cheques inside Thailand is considered working for the purposes of the technocrats, but signing them outside the country does not count. The visa section has details of most of these vague and murky rules. Just remember that the rules may change at the whim of some official, just look at the new rules for retirement visas that were announced on 1 September effective immediately.

I hope that this has helped.

I would also like to add,that I came to Thailand for only five visits/holidays,gave up a 100,000 pounds a year job and I know have two sucessful business which both cost less that 1,000,000 baht to set up..!!!

So if you have an idea, the detemination to make it work,

a Thai partner that you can trust with the rest of your life and a good Thai solicitor,

then go for it.

I did and I have not looked back.

Good luck.

Nick

I hope this explains some of the events. Sometimes the lawyers and/or those doing the translation do not explain to any depth.

[Nickthegreek]

Thanks Nick for your input.

The more i look into it, the more it seems that it might be a lot easier and cheaper to put the business in my thai partner's name and give up any ownership/shares. Of course this would mean that i cant work in the shop and get a proper visa. Nevertheless, i would be able to 'be around' in the shop i suppose and do 'back office' work...any thoughts on that possibility?

Thanks

Iyah,

It is all down to trust and how much you are willing to lose,I guess we all hear so many stories about having money stolen.

I think as long as you stay out of sight then you have nothing to worry about,however that said,I do not know where you are so,its down to you.If I am honest,I did not come here to work,just to own my own businesses and with the nuances of Thailand,we can, I guess say we own it to a certain degree.

As to the salary setting,I was told that this ist by immigration,as I asked the work permit department and they said we dont care what you earn.

Nick

ng read the attached notes,I may have issues with my first years accounts when submitted,because at present the business does not cover my salary,looks like I have that to look forward too..