Proposed Constitution Clears Referendum With Comfortable Margin

[ColPyat]

Thanks Col, and I understand what you are saying. I read the "book". Strange times ....

Then you might want to read a book that is even better - "Rituals of National Loyalty" by Katherine E. Bowie - an anthropological study into the village scout movement (and beyond). Very very in depth.

[mrtoad]

I think the Economist is a fantastic source. What source do you suggest, Mr Toad?

Anyway, I am intrigued by this part:

People’s Power Party (PPP), which is courting Samak Sundaravej, a fiery right-winger and former governor of Bangkok,

Can someone define what right wing means in Thailand?

I know what it means in the US or Europe, but not Thailand.

The Economist is a great source, maybe you missed my irony.

In respect of the right wing ideology, I'd suggest that it is a little more difficult to define from the political standpoints in the UK and the US. As it has been pointed out, there are some particularly unpleasant characters who are still highly influential in the the arena who have no alligance to anything other than themselves.

The Thai politaical arena is very different from that in the west, as a lot of the policies that would be deemed left wing in the west are allied to what analyists may deem as right wing and vice versa. You probably, know what I am getting at, but after too many beers and a need for sleep I am probably not making a lot of sense.

Edited August 20, 2007 by mrtoad

[Mid]

Comfortable ............??

Referendum leaves Thailand deeply divided

Analysis by Peter Janssen, dpa

Thailand's first-ever referendum has endorsed a new military-backed constitution for the kingdom but it was no landslide victory.

According to a final count of ballots cast, only 57 per cent of the people who bothered to vote Sunday supported the new charter, with 42 per cent rejecting it. And despite being the country's "first-ever" referendum, the novelty value was insufficient to draw the masses to the polling stations.

Only 57.6 per cent of the eligible voters voted, far below the usual turnout at general elections.

More worrisome for Thailand's current leadership, some 62 per cent of the population in the north-east region rejected the charter.

snip

The Post Publishing Public Co

[bingobongo]

attaway boys in green......i can see it now, car stands, motorcycle stands and newly created military tank stands on street corners..........

Thai 'no' vote points to messy election

Dubbed the "Anti-Thaksin constitution", analysts say it appears to be an attempt to revive the "managed democracy" of the 1980s under ex-army chief Prem Tinsulanonda – now the King's top adviser and seen by Thaksin supporters as the coup mastermind. However, with its requirement of just one fifth of MPs to launch a no-confidence motion, it is just as likely to lead to the constantly collapsing coalitions that typified the early 1990s.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dailynews/4171968a6403.html

[Mid]

Sonthi satisfied with outcome

Published on August 21, 2007

Junta chief General Sonthi Boonyaratglin conceded yesterday that support for the new charter was lower than expected in the referendum, but said he was satisfied with the outcome.

"I previously expected a majority vote of 60 to 65 per cent but, in a democracy, a majority of one vote indicates a passage of the charter," he said in reference to the referendum support of 56.69 per cent.

Sonthi spoke to Channel 9 yesterday morning from Kuala Lumpur where he is on an official visit.

He said he did not anticipate that voters in the Northeast would reject the charter or that residents in the North would just back it.

"I think many people have yet to gain an understanding of the charter provisions," he said.

He blamed anti-coup campaigners for spreading false information about the draft provisions.

He said he would instruct soldiers to reason with the public, many of whom have not read the charter draft.

snip

nationmultimedia.com

Edited August 20, 2007 by Mid

[lannarebirth]

If they can manage a few years without violent confrontations, then the charter will have served it's purpose. Have to get education levels up and establish rule of law. People talk about social justice and equality, but none of those nice words mean a thing if the ruke of law is not established. Two stepd forward, one step back.

[sriracha john]

Is there something wrong with the main thread....

Proposed Constitution Clears Referendum With Comfortable Margin

that this thread needs to be separate?

[Mid]

possibly the title ....................

[sriracha john]

possibly the title ....................

Is it?

Perhaps then, all the more reason to include these posts in the main thread then...

[Mid]

point taken ...................

[ColPyat]

Sonthi satisfied with outcome

Published on August 21, 2007

Junta chief General Sonthi Boonyaratglin conceded yesterday that support for the new charter was lower than expected in the referendum, but said he was satisfied with the outcome.

"I previously expected a majority vote of 60 to 65 per cent but, in a democracy, a majority of one vote indicates a passage of the charter," he said in reference to the referendum support of 56.69 per cent.

Sonthi spoke to Channel 9 yesterday morning from Kuala Lumpur where he is on an official visit.

He said he did not anticipate that voters in the Northeast would reject the charter or that residents in the North would just back it.

"I think many people have yet to gain an understanding of the charter provisions," he said.

He blamed anti-coup campaigners for spreading false information about the draft provisions.

He said he would instruct soldiers to reason with the public, many of whom have not read the charter draft.

snip

nationmultimedia.com

Not exactly.

In a "normal" democracy, you don't have military coups, and charter amendments usually require a 2/3 majority.

And it also is normal in a democracy that opposing parties are free to campaign for what they believe is right, not being harassed by arrests of their leading activists, confiscation of campaign material, having hardly any media access, and not having to try to campaign in a country in which many provinces are under martial law even though the lack of any armed resistance to the government makes that measure hardly necessary.

Oh, but yes, this is Thailand...

[Jai Dee]

TRT identifies 4 faults on public referendum day

The Thai Rak Thai Group has identified several faults in the referendum process. The group has urged responsible officials to correct them before the general election at the end of this year.

Thai Rak Thai Group leader Surapong Suebwonglee (สุรพงษ์ สืบวงษ์ลี) says his group believes the timeframe between the moment in which the interim government provided information on the 2007 constitution draft to the public and the date of the public referendum is too short, resulting in the inability of citizens to review the constitutional draft before voting.

Thai Rak Thai members also believe the interim government has been restrictive in its public referendum public relations policies, including forbidding flyers, and other documents to be distributed to members of the public. Mr. Surapong says the current maintenance of martial law in 37 provinces was not conductive to voting processes.

The Thai Rak Thai Group also believes that voting officials were not disciplined and should be urged to adhere more strictly to voting regulations.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 August 2007

[Jai Dee]

EC submits referendum results to CDA

Election Commissioner Praphan Naikowit (ประพันธ์ นัยโกวิท) submits the referendum results to Chairman of the Constitution Drafting Assembly Noranit Setabutr (นรนิติ เศรษฐบุตร). NLA was scheduled to hold a meeting last night to approve the results.

EC has announced the official results of the referendum as follows. There is the voter turnout of 25,978,154 or 57.61% from 45,929,955 eligible voters. The “yes” votes are 14,727,306 or 56.69% and the “no” votes are 10,747,441 or 41.37%. There are 504,120 damaged ballots or 1.94%.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 August 2007

[sriracha john]

U.S. hails approval of Thailand's post-coup Constitution

The United States on Monday embraced the approval of a post-coup Constitution in Thailand as a favorable step toward the military-installed interim government's road map to restoring democracy through a general election.

"We welcome the holding of the referendum as another positive step toward restoration of elected government in Thailand," State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said in a news briefing.

Thai voters narrowly approved the Constitution in Sunday's national referendum. The nod bodes well for the country to get back on the democratic path after September's bloodless coup, in which the military ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Interim Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont has reiterated that a general election should be held in December.

"We urge the government to continue to adhere to its electoral timetable and ensure the elections are free and fair," Gallegos said. "And we encourage the return of democratically elected government in Thailand and look forward to restoring full bilateral ties with the long-standing U.S. partner."

- Kyodo

[jumnien]

Other than Bangkokians and the Muslim South, the charter wasn't too popular. I suppose that's a comfortable margin if you've got lots of tanks to enforce it.

[Gary A]

I don't know what the big deal is. Whether the constitution is good or bad means nothing. If the military has a problem with the next elected government, there will be another coup regardless of what the constitution says.

[marshbags]

B.Post General news >> Monday August 20, 2007

Ref Url for the full article:-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/200807_News/20Aug2007_news10.php

Quote:-

Editorial

The lessons of the referendum

For the first time in its constitution-strewn history, the Thai nation has been asked to give its opinion. The boosters of the constitution have won the vote.

However, the high percentage of "No" votes _ mainly in the North and Northeast, which still supports ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and from those who wish to voice protest against the junta _ and less than stellar turnout suggest the deep divisions that have marked the nation's politics over the past two years will remain.

Still, the result of the referendum is a national vote for political stability and, most emphatically, for a return to democracy. Questions remain about the constitution certainly, but for now let the elections proceed. For the moment, Thailand again has a constitution.

Unquote

[tropo]

I suppose that's a comfortable margin if you've got lots of tanks to enforce it.

Well put!

I have a feeling it will be a long time before Thailand becomes a democratic nation. When military take over the running of a country, it's not easy to go back to normal governance.

[Heng]

At least the junta knows better than to interfere with business.

[wolfmanjack]

This is just an example. But I know of many people who voted for the constitution whilst being against it, they are sick and tired of the upheavals and want to get on with their business. Whether they made a good decision remains to be seen. In my housekeepers village there were at least 10 elderly people who filled out their slips , not understanding them, only to find out after they had crossed the wrong box. That's only 1 small village, so times the amount of villages in Thailand, that is an awful lot of people who made a wrong vote because of not having a clue (that doesn't count those that got the right box but still didn't have a clue).

My wife did not receive a copy of the proposed constitution. She said she was going to vote for it any way since that is the only way her family thought that elections would occur.

[marshbags]

B.Post General news >> Monday August 20, 2007

Ref Url for the full article:-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/200807_News/20Aug2007_news10.php

Quote:-

Editorial

The lessons of the referendum

For the first time in its constitution-strewn history, the Thai nation has been asked to give its opinion. The boosters of the constitution have won the vote.

However, the high percentage of "No" votes _ mainly in the North and Northeast, which still supports ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and from those who wish to voice protest against the junta _ and less than stellar turnout suggest the deep divisions that have marked the nation's politics over the past two years will remain.

Still, the result of the referendum is a national vote for political stability and, most emphatically, for a return to democracy. Questions remain about the constitution certainly, but for now let the elections proceed. For the moment, Thailand again has a constitution.

Unquote

Due to editing difficulties i coudln,t add this to it.

As with many of the posters on this thread it would seem that the NO vote was carried out with none of the usual tactics deployed by the well known oposition and there methods of influencing their wishes.

It was a YES vote for the future and a kick start for a change in mind set and an opportunity for a better Thailand.

Perhaps we should at present look on this as a positive and the enabling of a new election when hopefully democracy will return, only this time in a more meaningful way.

The article goes on to comment on influence for the yes vote, while for some unknown reason doesn,t refer to the embedded No influences ect. of the last 5 years.

FACT

I reside in Udon and i did not see any presence of alledged military intervention.

There wasn,t any at the school were the voting took place, not even for security reasons ??????

What i did see was lot,s of intimidation and orders being put on the residents to put NO on their voting returns.

My wife as i previously stated in the preceeding thread WAS witness to this personally and told in no words to the effect that she MUST vote NO

It is no coincidence that only the N.East failed to acknowledge good intentions on reconciliation.

And why, because the banned TRT gave them " peanuts " to support them in the last administration, while keeping all the "coconuts " for themselves.

Incidently let,s not forget that Thaksin hijacked the 30 baht conception for political gain and self interests in pre election hype

In reality it was the wise and caring idea of several academics who seem to have been excluded from the recognition they should have been credited with.

It was not the TRT that came up with the idea, they just dishonestly put claim to it.

Seems to me that no matter what is done or the positive intentions that are displayed, they will always account to zero as far as many observers subscribe to only the negatives and this is not what it,s about.

It was a majority yes, accept it and let us move on with this in mind and discuss it likewise in a +ve manner.

It,s your choice of course, democratically that is ..........................................

IMHO as always.

marshbags

P.S

Coup or no coup, the majority have decided and overcome the military situation to do so and as i can see without intimidation, apart from hearsay that is.

Edited August 21, 2007 by marshbags

[Plus]

The vote was not about consititution, the vote was a show of force by the pro-junta and pro-Thaksin camps, about who has better "persuasive" powers, better propaganda, better control.

It showed that the military still hasn't penetrated the Isan but Thaksin has failed everywhere else.

Not a complete victory for the generals, not a complete loss for Thaksin.

Generals might increase their anti-TRT drive and bring Isan foot soldier MPs under their control, or TRT might stage political coup and win back factions that swore allegiance to the junta - Suwat and Somsak and others.

[bingobongo]

all i can say to the junta is ........."tanks for the memories"......

junta got its wish, now there will be no strong majority in the upcoming elections (divide and conquer your enemies strategy), and the boys in green will be in control behind the scenes for the forseeable future

my only question is where will the armored tank parking spaces be marked going forward on sukhumivit? near the taxi stands?

welcome to your police state, LOS should be renamed as LOJ (land of junta)

[sriracha john]

Other than Bangkokians and the Muslim South, the charter wasn't too popular. I suppose that's a comfortable margin if you've got lots of tanks to enforce it.

oh well, as long as a separate thread is going to continue to run outside the main thread, for whatever reason....

I suppose it was comfortable if only one region out of five didn't approve it....

Graphics from The Nation

Edited August 21, 2007 by sriracha john

[Jai Dee]

oh well, as long as a separate thread is going to continue to run outside the main thread, for whatever reason....

Threads merged to provide continuity of topic.

[Mid]

I suppose it was comfortable if only one region out of five didn't approve it....

give your reasoning on this , people must be very comfortable in the deep south .................

who would have thought it ???

ps your junta boss has publicly stated that he was surprised at the results and expected to carry the NE and N by bigger margins .

but hey , don't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of your vendetta .

[sriracha john]

Funny you should say something about "the truth" as that is what prompted me to correct your erroneous insinuation that it was only favored in 2 areas when it was approved 4 out of 5.

Further sticking to the truth would also mean pointing out that the South region encompasses more than just the Deep South.

Edited August 21, 2007 by sriracha john

[Mid]

prompted me to correct your erroneous insinuation that it was only favored in 2 areas

cite please ??

[hammered]

Other than Bangkokians and the Muslim South, the charter wasn't too popular. I suppose that's a comfortable margin if you've got lots of tanks to enforce it.

Apart from the factual errors in your statement. Thailand probably does not need a hate campaign towards certain regions right now especially when wrongly labelled (most of the south is not Muslim), or innaccurate (The Central region passed it with a bigger majority than Bangkok and no provinces voting no). I can understand people being upset but using false or innaccurate information does the arguement no good. It would also be wrong to say well if you take out the (add demeaning adjective of choice) Isaan the Charter was easily accepted. The fact is what counts is the overall vote of the country. Demonising certain groups may be an effective cheap political trick but at the end of the day it does no good and is insulting to those say in BKK and the South inclufding those who voted no in these regions.

[Mid]

acknowledging your edit to post #88 SJ.

Still waiting for your cite , to substantiate your claim your erroneous insinuation that it was only favoured in 2 areas ,

I am aware that I will be waiting a long time .......................