Gay Savage Garden Star Darren Hayes ...

[peter991]

FORMER Savage Garden singer Darren Hayes has been arrested and charged for allegedly racially abusing a waiter in a Thai restaurant.

That's the thread which is currently running in the General Section of ThaiVisa. I don't want to duplicate that thread. What I want to do is to highlight the following:

Source:

Hayes made headlines on a visit to Australia a week ago with his public criticism of Mr Howard's stance on homosexuality.

Hayes blasted the need for his partner Richard Cullen, who he married in London last year, to fly to Australia on a tourist visa.

"It makes me angry and frustrated," Hayes said at the time. "I'm Australian and the way the law sits I can't bring my partner home as my partner.

"That to me is an infringement of my civil rights - a very un-Australian thing.

"I would never have voted for John Howard and I encourage people not to. I don't think he speaks for this country in the same way I don't think George Bush speaks for the US."

This raises an interesting point: Gay marriage (marriage between same-sex couples) is legal in certain countries.

What happens when a gay married couple insist on a Spouse Visa. Are their civil rights being violated?

Food for thought.

Peter

[Krub]

FORMER Savage Garden singer Darren Hayes has been arrested and charged for allegedly racially abusing a waiter in a Thai restaurant.

That's the thread which is currently running in the General Section of ThaiVisa. I don't want to duplicate that thread. What I want to do is to highlight the following:

Source:

Hayes made headlines on a visit to Australia a week ago with his public criticism of Mr Howard's stance on homosexuality.

Hayes blasted the need for his partner Richard Cullen, who he married in London last year, to fly to Australia on a tourist visa.

"It makes me angry and frustrated," Hayes said at the time. "I'm Australian and the way the law sits I can't bring my partner home as my partner.

"That to me is an infringement of my civil rights - a very un-Australian thing.

"I would never have voted for John Howard and I encourage people not to. I don't think he speaks for this country in the same way I don't think George Bush speaks for the US."

This raises an interesting point: Gay marriage (marriage between same-sex couples) is legal in certain countries.

What happens when a gay married couple insist on a Spouse Visa. Are their civil rights being violated?

Food for thought.

Peter

If both partners were fromthe UK and they could not use their spouses status that would be a violation.

If one of the partners is not UK and his own country does not recognize gay marriage then I don't see a violation.

The only way would be to push Australia to at least recognize gay marriages and the next step to include those marriages in its own laws

I would have the same problem if I were to marry in Belgium legaly and then come back to Thailand or Japan with a partner ofthat country. They would not consider me as a legal partner and i would have to get my own visa.....

[Weho]

I think only some Scandanavian countries, and maybe the Netherlands too, allow a same-sex "domestic" or "married" partner to immigrate, basically granting FULL rights. some other countries allow a partner to LIVE there, with restrictions, (sometimes not working, sometimes requring the "spouse" to exit the country every few months, etc.). I believe France is like that.

I think only Norway, and possibly another Scandanavian country allows 100% rights (inheritance, family, retirement benefits, etc.). there is a website somewhere that lists all these, country by country. not sure which it is.

[Pink Mist]

there is an interdepedant visa which they can apply for, but a tourist visa should do it for a 3 month stay.

I agree with him about howard he is a plick

[Bobegraves]

We had our civil partnership in Vietnam as it wasn't allowed at the British Embassy in Bangkok,the UK treats same sex partnerships just the same as heterosexual couples and grants the same visa rights.

What really bugs me is that neither of us are Thai so what right did the Thai government have to refuse our union in the BRITISH EMBASSY .Although my partner earns more than 40.000B per month here in Thailand i'm sure that they'd not grant me a visa based on our joint income,we're treated as individuals and that's that. Until ALL countries recognise our rights to be treated equally we just have to go where we are welcome.As for John Howard and George Bush i hope they'll both soon be history.

[wcr]

We had our civil partnership in Vietnam as it wasn't allowed at the British Embassy in Bangkok,the UK treats same sex partnerships just the same as heterosexual couples and grants the same visa rights.

What really bugs me is that neither of us are Thai so what right did the Thai government have to refuse our union in the BRITISH EMBASSY .Although my partner earns more than 40.000B per month here in Thailand i'm sure that they'd not grant me a visa based on our joint income,we're treated as individuals and that's that. Until ALL countries recognise our rights to be treated equally we just have to go where we are welcome.As for John Howard and George Bush i hope they'll both soon be history.

Ummm, interesting post. I inquired about a civil partnership here in Thailand with my partner and was told by the UK Embassy Thailand had refused it permission to carry out Civil Partnerships here.

What nationality is your partner, and please can you post here what you had to do to get the ceremony done in Vietnam? I am sure others would be interested too.

[Bobegraves]

My Partner is Indian. We were told that the British Embassy in Hanoi was the nearest place we could get a civil partnership. It's the same procedure as it would be in the UK, firstly you have to both be over 16 years old, both parties must be free to enter into a civil partnership, if either of you have been previously married then you have to give the relevant documentation e.g a divorce decree absolute, court decree or death cert. My partner had to get a letter from the Indian Embassy in Bangkok saying she was single.You have to reside for 7 clear days in the consular district of the British Embassy in Hanoi before you give written notice of the intended registration to the vice consul on a notice of civil partnership form.

It's then signed and stamped by a consular marriage officer and posted on the consular notice board for 14 full days ( the day of the application and the day of issue do not count) If no objection to the registration is lodged then the registration can be made.

A civil partnership registration must be solemnised within 3 months of the date of giving written notice.

We had a ten day holiday there first ( Hanoi is great with lots to see and do) then we came back to Thailand for a month before going back for the final part. The embassy staff were great, really helpful and kind, they laid on champagne and flowers and really made our day. It had gotten off to a very bad start when Air Asia lost our bags with all our wedding outfits in , we'd only gone for the weekend just for the ceremony and our bags weren't found til we landed back at Bangkok!

The embassy staff offered to find us outfits etc and even to perform the ceremony after office hours to give us time to go buy new clothes etc but as we were past it we just went ahead in the clothes we'd flown out in.Just telling you this so you know how nice they are there.

The fee's could have changed by now, if you contact the embassy they'll send you all the details . Tel (84 4) 9360500 or e.mail [email protected]

One last thing, Hanoi is authorised to register civil partnerships between two British nationals or one Brisith national and one non-Vietnamese national, they are not allowed to register British nationals and Vietnamese nationals. Why the Thai's couldn't make a similar deal God only knows, i laughed when i read their constitution - equal rights my arse! Anyway hope this info is of some help.

[wcr]

Thanks for your reply. Not sure I want to go to Vietnam for so long!!!

[Scott]

I am a little fuzzy on some of these legal issues, but I used to work in refugee and immigration services related fields. One of the consistent issues was the sanctity of marriage, whether that marriage was only a religious ceremony, civil ceremony or both (provided that you could show proof, if needed). Also, it was legally acknowledged that what one political jurisdiction deemed as a marriage was acknowledged by other political jurisdictions.

Thus, in theory, if you are married in Norway--your marriage should be considered legal throughout every country.

I am interested as to how different countries view these issues and different political jurisdictions.

[Bobegraves]

Here's a link with all the countries that recognise civil partnerships plus other legal aspects in each country: http://www.stonewall.org.uk/information_ba...ational/137.asp

[dukkha]

I am an Australian citizen, lived here for over 7 years, took a wad of documentation to Aus Embassy

outsourcing department, Sam got a visitors visa within 5 days needless to say we are both extremely

happy, has a multple entry stamp which I understand to mean if we needed to return to Awstrayia

within the 3 month period he is permitted to do so...the visa is valid for one year but we will be

making our visit on September 21/09/07...does give some breathing room if there was to be an

emergency dash within the 3 month window...we will only be staying for three weeks but all our

options are not closed for three months...without being smug, I did not expect a refusal as we

adhered to all the required documentation, although Sam has not been employed since we met

two and a half years ago...more thanks are due to Khun Sutin at Awstryian Embassy than the

Nazi Guvment of my home country....ok ok , will keep my personal poitics out of it..I know how

difficult it is for Yankees and Brits, however we have had a Gay and Lesbian Immigration Task

Force operating for over 25 years...how progressive for a penal colony Dukkha

[peter991]

Source

Cops savage race row Hayes

By Charles Miranda in London

September 21, 2007 10:20am

DARREN Hayes, the former front man of rock outfit Savage Garden, will today be handed a formal caution by British police for an alleged racial attack on a waiter at a trendy Thai restaurant in London.

Hayes had to go to a London police station last month after a complaint was made by the managers of the Busaba Eathai restaurant in Wardour Street in Soho after he abused a waiter in July.

The 35-year-old had been on bail after being formally arrested by Westminster police on suspicion of a verbal attack and told an investigation would be conducted.

By arrangement with his lawyers, Hayes is to again visit police today where he is expected to be issued with a caution for his alleged tirade.

The caution will relate to section 5 of the Public Order Act where it is an offence to behave or perform an act that is likely to cause distress or offence.

Scotland Yard deems racial abuse as a very serious offence particularly in multicultural London where racial tensions are constantly in the news.

According to witness statements gathered during the past month, Hayes went on a racial rant against a male waiter during a night out on July 22.

Management made a formal complaint that night and the next day police took statements from witnesses including the alleged abused worker.

The victim continues to work at the restaurant.

Hayes, who had eaten there regularly and considered it his local, has consistently denied the slur ever took place.

A manager at the restaurant yesterday said the matter was over.

"This is past," he said. "The matter has now been dealt with and I can't comment. As far as we are concerned it was a while ago and has now been dealt with."

Hayes hit the headlines when he attacked Prime Minister John Howard's stance on gay marriage, saying it was an infringement of his civil rights that his partner Richard Cullen had to apply for a visa to come to Australia instead of receiving a spouse visa.

Hayes' management yesterday declined to comment.

Savage Garden hit the top of the charts in late 1990s with number one hit Truly Madly Deeply and went on to sell more than 25 million records worldwide before the pop duo split in 2001. Hayes has since gone on to record three solo albums.

[nongkhai]

Here's a link with all the countries that recognise civil partnerships plus other legal aspects in each country: <a href="http://www.stonewall.org.uk/information_ba...ational/137.asp" target="_blank">http://www.stonewall.org.uk/information_ba...ational/137.asp</a>

Just FYI: That website has not been updated in many a moon, much of the info is out of date. Canada now has full marriage rights for gay folks and has had for a couple of years now. In the Canada example for instance, the info on the website above essentially states that Canada is still having a national debate on gay marriage issues . . . when in fact the legislation has been a done deal for some time now.

Gay folks in Canada can get married ~ not "civil partnerships" ... real, honest, trueblue 'marriage' ~ with no problem (I attended one in September), and have every single 'right' within that marriage exactly as straight marriages do.

At the time the law was enacted there was of course much braying at the moon, knashing of teeth, and " ... It's-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it ... " hand-ringing from the conservative church ladies . . . but in the true Canadian Way, everyone has settled down now and it has in fact become essentially a non-issue.

In the interests of the concept of the separation of church and state, religions were given the right to say "no" to marrying gay couples if they saw fit to do so. In that case, a couple can easily sashay off to the court house or the city hall and get hitched. Predictably, the Anglican and United churches (i.e. the liberals among us) have usually been performing gay marriages when asked (with some specific congregations balking) . . . the Catholic Church, conservative Protestant churches, the Islamic Fanatic Congregation etc etc (again, predictably) usually will not. A typical Canadian compromise . . . but it keeps the social peace.

I haven't heard of the implications regarding visas for married gay folks. Presumably, a Canadian immigration officer (that is to say, Canadian law) would recognise two gay men or women legally married in another country, and thus allow the foreign partner to enter the country under that status and apply for Landed Immigrant status leading to possible citizenship . . . though the number of countries where that happens is still very low (only 5 countries I believe, but I may be wrong on that).

But ... they would still have to go through the normal immigration regulations and hoops to receive such status: simply being married to a Canadian does NOT, of itself, automatically grant L.I. status or citizenship. I don't think Canada is alone in acting in that fashion.

Cheers ...

For the most up to date iinfo on gay marriage worldwide, this site (updated August, 2007) seems to have it about right: http://gaylife.about.com/od/samesexmarriag...lgaymarriag.htm

Edited October 18, 2007 by nongkhai