Tat Causing Shut Down Of Many Thailand Websites

[cmsally]

If you are registered with the TAT you have to deposit a bond either with them or directly with a bank (either way it covers as your bond for your license). For inbound business it is 50,000Bt and for outbound it is 100,000Bt. There are other more localised licenses which are less.

The OP seems to be saying he has this license (as he's renewing) and is getting asked for additional money.

It isn't really clear as some other people are suggesting people with a web presence (who might or might not be licensed ) are being chased up by the TAT. Maybe they are selling and the TAT just wants them to license.

Nobody yet has come up with a copy of the document which demands the payment, so it is a bit unclear.

[onethailand]

If you are registered with the TAT you have to deposit a bond either with them or directly with a bank (either way it covers as your bond for your license). For inbound business it is 50,000Bt and for outbound it is 100,000Bt. There are other more localised licenses which are less.

The OP seems to be saying he has this license (as he's renewing) and is getting asked for additional money.

It isn't really clear as some other people are suggesting people with a web presence (who might or might not be licensed ) are being chased up by the TAT. Maybe they are selling and the TAT just wants them to license.

Nobody yet has come up with a copy of the document which demands the payment, so it is a bit unclear.

As of two years ago it was 100K for each - I have a letter of guarantee for 200K with Bangkok Bank.

Regarding the OP, I just read that again... I kind of responded to the other thread LOL. I cannot see any reason why - or how - the TAT can demand 100K to run a website to promote tourism - that is plain silly. I'm betting it's some sort of miscommunication somewhere... I'll be damned if I am going to pay another 100K to promote Thai tourism, they should be giving us grants instead...

I too would love to see some document which indicates what the payment is supposed to be for.

[womble]

Does this mean if I have a website advertising a tourist business such as resort or bar/nightclub then I have to get a licence??

sounds ridiculous, they want to attract more touists, but they want to tax those advertising to get them here??????

[onethailand]

Does this mean if I have a website advertising a tourist business such as resort or bar/nightclub then I have to get a licence??

sounds ridiculous, they want to attract more touists, but they want to tax those advertising to get them here??????

Until someone comes forth with more documentation there's no correct answer to this question.

However, in my opinion, a bar/nightclub wouldn't be considered a tourist attraction or facility. A resort would, though. And you also didn't say the nature of your website (resort owner, or just a web portal or directory) - certainly I cannot understand why someone running a web portal would have to get a license, unless they were promoting their own tourism-related business.

[cclub75]

Hi forum folks.

I work down on Samui building websites for tourism related business.

Quite a few of my clients have recently shut down their websites, several more are considering doing so.

You were in contact with those thai customers.

So you can easily find out :

-how they were contacted ? Phone, letter ?

-where thoses companies are located ? Many differents places ?

-what was exactly the demand ?

-was there any deadline to comply ?

etc. etc.

It sounds insane, and really like a basic "authority scam" ("Allo ? Tat's speaking. Give us 100 K, new regulation" , to which, naturally thais will comply "OK khrap, khrap").

But as we all know, everything is possible here...

I would propose another theory : those small thais companies were indeed in tourism business... illegaly, without declaration and licence to TAT. Therefore, crackdown. But nothing to do with websites.

Edited August 30, 2007 by cclub75

[simon43]

After I opened my 10-bedroom resort in Phuket, I contacted TAT to join up. 'B*gger off' they said. You are too small a business to be allowed to join TAT. We only allow larger 'hotels' to join.....

So I certainly won't be replying to any TAT requests for money...

Simon

[womble]

After I opened my 10-bedroom resort in Phuket, I contacted TAT to join up. 'B*gger off' they said. You are too small a business to be allowed to join TAT. We only allow larger 'hotels' to join.....

So I certainly won't be replying to any TAT requests for money...

Simon

Another Perk of having less than 12 rooms!!!

[baanthale]

Hi forum folks.

I work down on Samui building websites for tourism related business.

Quite a few of my clients have recently shut down their websites, several more are considering doing so.

You were in contact with those thai customers.

So you can easily find out :

-how they were contacted ? Phone, letter ?

-where thoses companies are located ? Many differents places ?

-what was exactly the demand ?

-was there any deadline to comply ?

etc. etc.

It sounds insane, and really like a basic "authority scam" ("Allo ? Tat's speaking. Give us 100 K, new regulation" , to which, naturally thais will comply "OK khrap, khrap").

But as we all know, everything is possible here...

I would propose another theory : those small thais companies were indeed in tourism business... illegaly, without declaration and licence to TAT. Therefore, crackdown. But nothing to do with websites.

You can propose whatever theory you want, but fact is, if you run a website in the tourist business, you will now need to spit up a further 90,000THB (beside the 10,000THB you already paid)for renewal of your TAT license. I posted another thread in the jobs/business section asking about this, and since then I got more information about it, and indeed they want this extra money without any advanced notis. Pay or take down your website, as easy as that. Reason seems to be, they want to have a buffer if some tourist feels they have been cheated over the net, so they can pay them back with your money. This is not a tax, it is a deposition they will put on a bank book, you will have a copy, and if you stop your business, money will be paid back. Love to see they did something similar to taxi drivers etc. ...

[A_Traveller]

Again can anyone provide detail on this, i.e. sites involved, how contacted etc.?

Second trawled the TAT site but couldn't find the join happy campers TAT page , anyone point me to the TAT licensing criteria?

Regards

[Farma]

yea and if you feel robbed then TaT is going to use a bond money to refund you, NoooT. follow the money where is it going. Tell me how many refunded by TaT?

I don’t know about tourists getting refunds but I know a person who had the 200,000 bond refunded when they closed their travel agency.

[baanthale]

Again can anyone provide detail on this, i.e. sites involved, how contacted etc.?

Second trawled the TAT site but couldn't find the join happy campers TAT page , anyone point me to the TAT licensing criteria?

Regards

Can't give any more info. I'm as suprised as everyone. We are on Samui, and we got the information up on renewal. We have been licensed since over 10 years. No notice in advance what so ever. Told them we do not have any online booking, only advertize our business, answere,just take down site or pay. I also know about others on Samui with the same issue that paid. Haven't seen any info. on the net, but have been in contact with serveral people on different levels in TAT, and all says the same thing. Also heard that this is only effective on Samui right now, would be interesting to know if anyone somewere else have been out for this to.

[LaoPo]

Again can anyone provide detail on this, i.e. sites involved, how contacted etc.?

Second trawled the TAT site but couldn't find the join happy campers TAT page , anyone point me to the TAT licensing criteria?

Regards

Can't give any more info. I'm as suprised as everyone. We are on Samui, and we got the information up on renewal. We have been licensed since over 10 years. No notice in advance what so ever. Told them we do not have any online booking, only advertize our business, answere,just take down site or pay. I also know about others on Samui with the same issue that paid. Haven't seen any info. on the net, but have been in contact with serveral people on different levels in TAT, and all says the same thing. Also heard that this is only effective on Samui right now, would be interesting to know if anyone somewere else have been out for this to.

I repeat my question in post #10:

"Anybody knows of a LAW that says tourist-operators HAVE to pay that fee to TAT ?"

If not why not unite with the others and file a complaint with the Ministry of Tourism ?

LaoPo

[A_Traveller]

Finally found the Bangkok Tourist Business & Guide Register Office site.

Link to licence introduction, note it does not specify what the business requisites are. Accept it may be on the site in Thai, but beyond my level of {written} comprehension. Link Click to open English pdf.

Note the site's URL is www.jsoftbiz.com/tourist/index.asp

Regards

PS The pdf has contact numbers and areas of responsibility for the TAT offices. Samui is under Phuket it seems.

PPS I'm sure that tour operators and those offering accommodation above a specified level are required to hold a TAT licence and therefore a bond. Question seems to be exactly what is a 'tour business'

Edited August 30, 2007 by A_Traveller

[cmsally]

We renewed our license in CM only 2 weeks ago.

There is no paperwork or any mention of anything like this.

You need to ask the TAT for the forms to fill out with respect to this new payment and see what they come up with.

If it is the same as for the bond obviously you are not 2 companies so don't need to pay twice.

Coincidentally they have been pushing advertising for their own booking website recently something like Thaitravelmart ??

My theory is that some bright spark has come up with the idea that they can wipe out all other competition and become the only booking portal for holidays in Thailand!!

[Clipped]

Hi forum folks.

I work down on Samui building websites for tourism related business.

Quite a few of my clients have recently shut down their websites, several more are considering doing so.

This is because the T.A.T. has contacted them telling them they must pay a fee of 100,000 Baht to TAT or they are not allowed to have a website for their tourism busines, only an email address.

So, my clients who spend their money promoting both their own business and tourism in Thailand are shutting down their websites.

Has anybody else heard of this utter rubbish?

Any other folks hit with this?

What are your thoughts?

These clients are all Thais, they all have very small business and really cannot afford to pay out 100,000 Baht just to have a website.

Seems to me that this is not such a good way to promote tourism in Thailand?

But hang on, is that not TAT's job?

I am obviously very confused.

comments????

I've never heard of such a FEE in Thailand but it might be me...

It sounds outrageous and absurd to me that TAT asks/demands this fee of Baht 100,000, but I would like to hear if that's the same in other high tourists areas as well, like Pattaya and Phuket.

Anybody knows of a LAW that says tourist-operators HAVE to pay that fee to TAT ?

LaoPo

tour operators must pay a 100k baht bond in order to operate.

[tijnebijn]

After I opened my 10-bedroom resort in Phuket, I contacted TAT to join up. 'B*gger off' they said. You are too small a business to be allowed to join TAT. We only allow larger 'hotels' to join.....

So I certainly won't be replying to any TAT requests for money...

Simon

Another Perk of having less than 12 rooms!!!

If it will save you a possible 200k , and still not knowing if it turns back as profit , just keep the business small.

I remember one man calling , sufficiency economy , I understand why .

[mac.wheeler]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I remember not so long ago booking a hotel room on-line in Thailand, not one of these book the cheapest room kinda things, it was from the actual website owned by the hotel. They took a nice chunk off my credit card as a booking fee. When I turned up at the hotel the only staff there didn't even know they had a website let alone any record of my booking.

I ended up having to pay more, I also had to call my credit card company and instigate a charge back. 2 days later as I was just leaving somebody actually turned up at the hotel who knew they had a website, checked the email and there was my booking. Do you think they refunded the difference in price considering I had already paid?

I'm dead against any kind of internet cencorship and tax is as sure a form of cencorship as any other, but sometimes you have to take the long view and think to yourself 'darn this place sure needs tidying up'. The unfortunate thing is that often you end up throwing something valuable out with the trash.

[Totster]

I have merged the other thread from the business section into this one to keep the discussion in the same place.

Totster

[cclub75]

Finally found the Bangkok Tourist Business & Guide Register Office site.

Link to licence introduction, note it does not specify what the business requisites are. Accept it may be on the site in Thai, but beyond my level of {written} comprehension. Link Click to open English pdf.

Note the site's URL is www.jsoftbiz.com/tourist/index.asp

Very interesting.

Can someone tell me when this document was written ?

This famous licence seems compulsory for "tour related businesses".

My point is : if you read the document, you'll see that it's in total contradiction with... the Foreign Business Act (version 1, and even the draft of version 2)... !

"(2 e) in case it is a limited company, not less than half of its director must be of thai nationality,

and not less than 51 % of its capital must belong to natural persons who are of thai nationality,

and its Articles of Association shall not contain a clause which permits it ot issue bearer shares."

Some of you who own a tour business in Thailand, and have the TAT licence, how do you scope with such regulations ?

[southbot]

Hi forum folks.

I work down on Samui building websites for tourism related business.

Quite a few of my clients have recently shut down their websites, several more are considering doing so.

This is because the T.A.T. has contacted them telling them they must pay a fee of 100,000 Baht to TAT or they are not allowed to have a website for their tourism busines, only an email address.

So, my clients who spend their money promoting both their own business and tourism in Thailand are shutting down their websites.

Has anybody else heard of this utter rubbish?

Any other folks hit with this?

What are your thoughts?

These clients are all Thais, they all have very small business and really cannot afford to pay out 100,000 Baht just to have a website.

Seems to me that this is not such a good way to promote tourism in Thailand?

But hang on, is that not TAT's job?

I am obviously very confused.

comments????

If this is the case, couldn't a business be made of setting up a central website under one domain name with pages for the businesses? Then it'd be just one 100,000 baht fee, with some smaller fee charged to the businesses for the page. Or make several websites. Group all diving under one domain name, one for tours, etc.

I just got back from several days in Malaysia and see a lot of ongoing discussion on this thread I started.

Regarding one central site. We have that. But the thing is that to look truly professional these days your business card should have a web address and emaila address that reads "www.mydomain.com and [email protected] "

I just don't take business cards seriously if they read "my name @ gmail . com " or whatever, I just chuck them in the bin.

Any serious business has its own domain name and email system, end of story in my opinion.

So that idea has been done but it won't cover base fully.

I read on into the thread further now, all very interesting stuff indeed.

Another issue is that this is not being requested as a bond, it is clearly being said "you have a website and must pay a fee of 100,000 Baht or you must remove / take down your site". One dive school for sure closed their site and a tour boat operater is considering doing so. It is not being stated/requested as a "bond' nor as a "tax" but simply a fee for using the web to promote their business.

At least I see here in this thread that it is happening elsewhere, so this thread has confirmed my fears. Thanks to TVF.

Cheers

Edited August 31, 2007 by southbot

[baanthale]

Hi forum folks.

I work down on Samui building websites for tourism related business.

Quite a few of my clients have recently shut down their websites, several more are considering doing so.

This is because the T.A.T. has contacted them telling them they must pay a fee of 100,000 Baht to TAT or they are not allowed to have a website for their tourism busines, only an email address.

So, my clients who spend their money promoting both their own business and tourism in Thailand are shutting down their websites.

Has anybody else heard of this utter rubbish?

Any other folks hit with this?

What are your thoughts?

These clients are all Thais, they all have very small business and really cannot afford to pay out 100,000 Baht just to have a website.

Seems to me that this is not such a good way to promote tourism in Thailand?

But hang on, is that not TAT's job?

I am obviously very confused.

comments????

If this is the case, couldn't a business be made of setting up a central website under one domain name with pages for the businesses? Then it'd be just one 100,000 baht fee, with some smaller fee charged to the businesses for the page. Or make several websites. Group all diving under one domain name, one for tours, etc.

I just got back from several days in Malaysia and see a lot of ongoing discussion on this thread I started.

Regarding one central site. We have that. But the thing is that to look truly professional these days your business card should have a web address and emaila address that reads "www.mydomain.com and [email protected] "

I just don't take business cards seriously if they read "my name @ gmail . com " or whatever, I just chuck them in the bin.

Any serious business has its own domain name and email system, end of story in my opinion.

So that idea has been done but it won't cover base fully.

I read on into the thread further now, all very interesting stuff indeed.

Another issue is that this is not being requested as a bond, it is clearly being said "you have a website and must pay a fee of 100,000 Baht or you must remove / take down your site". One dive school for sure closed their site and a tour boat operater is considering doing so. It is not being stated/requested as a "bond' nor as a "tax" but simply a fee for using the web to promote their business.

At least I see here in this thread that it is happening elsewhere, so this thread has confirmed my fears. Thanks to TVF.

Cheers

No southbot, it is a "bond". Just renewed our license on Samui, and we will need to add up 90,000THB to our 10,000THB, so all in all 100,000THB. Friend of mine (dive business) did the same a couple of months ago.Money will be placed on bankbook with copy for us. In case business stops= we will get back ".bond"

What I don't understand is that this seems to be a new requirment (at least for dive shops) ONLY on Samui, as I have been told that this is not a rule for Phuket etc.

[RKASA]

If its just bond money no problem, not a tax or fee. I have to put up 400K just for my visa. 100K refundable for a biz. deal with it.

[A_Traveller]

Southbot, please provide business or web site details which have been affected by this 'tax' demand. Further please provide confirmation of how this demand was made, email, fax, snail mail or 'phone. If you are unable to do that please ask an affected party to join TV and post their experiences on this.

cclub75, bearer shares are a specific legal form of shareholding {effectively anonymous} which the document is prohibiting.

Regards

[cclub75]

cclub75, bearer shares are a specific legal form of shareholding {effectively anonymous} which the document is prohibiting.

And... ?

I do know what bearer shares are.

That's not the point.

The point is : when TAT's regulations have been published ?

Because it's obvious that they mimic FBA 2, but go also a little bit further with the issue of directors of thai nationality and the provision against "bearer shares" (the main novelty of FBA 2 is the issue of voting rights).

The problem is : FBA 2 hasn't been enacted yet (gvt withdrew the whole draft from the NLA earlier in august).

It shows one thing : the total duplicity of thai authorities. Follow the path :

-Under FBA, foreigners can't own (or control with FBA 2) a tourism business (list 3), "unless permitted by the Director-General with the approval of the Committee" (section 8/3 of FBA)

-First bug : you need to ask for a licence.

-Let's say, you ask and you obtain the licence.

-Then in order to operate the business, you learn now that you need a compulsory licence from TAT.

-and the conditions are... obviously harder -or different- than those of FBA !

You can't qualify. Back to square one.

It's the russian puppets strategy. In public, you can argue that you respect WTO provisions, free enterprise, good governance (add many bullshits words to the list)... And behind, you drop minefields to cancel the effect of the first law.

Face saved. Thai interests saved.

[A_Traveller]

The pdf was created on 26th January 2007. I don't want to get into an argument but the qualification process for tourism business has always been stringent here, but not unreasonably so. In the case of bearer shares in FBA2 they were explicitly defined as Alien, as they are for the purposes of land purchase by a company. I've just checked the current 'FBA' 1999 and in that bearer shares are also classified as Alien unless "otherwise provided [for] by ministerial regulations" so that is the present position.

Regards

/edit add current FBA data//

Edited August 31, 2007 by A_Traveller

[madmitch]

I have spoken to the operator of one of Phuket's leading online diving agents and they have confirmed this requirement. It is not new, apparently, and it is a bond that is refundable. They paid up a long time ago. What they did believe, however, was that IT SHOULD ONLY APPLY IF YOU TAKE ONLINE BOOKINGS, which makes sense as the mere presence of a website should have nothing to do with the TAT.

So, if you take bookings over the net then it seems you have to pay up and make sure you get all the correct paperwork. If you don't then it should be worth arguing the case with them.

[cmsally]

If the OP has a 10k bond that means he has a license that covers his local area. It seems that by increasing the amount they want to give him a different license which would cover for the whole of Thailand or whatever.

I wonder if someone at TAT just hasn't really misunderstood the whole concept - you can still have a website and only operate tours in your local area.

[southbot]

Southbot, please provide business or web site details which have been affected by this 'tax' demand. Further please provide confirmation of how this demand was made, email, fax, snail mail or 'phone. If you are unable to do that please ask an affected party to join TV and post their experiences on this.

Regards

Point 1:

Hi, my clients do not want to use TV, both of clients in question are not very big on computer use themselves. They are simply aware of the benefit of advertising on the web.

As I had mentioned, one client was a dive school, site is shut down already. The other is a speedboat owner, the site is currently still online.

Neither of them want their business names or web addresses mentioned in this context / thread, sorry about that.

The demand/request was made in both instances from a personal visit from a TAT "official".

I have heard no more from other clients about this issue, only from these 2. I have over 180 clients in total.

Even having 2 effected is an issue to both my business and the web in general.

Point 2:

>So, if you take bookings over the net then it seems you have to pay up and make sure you get all the correct paperwork.

>If you don't then it should be worth arguing the case with them.

OK, but how do you define "taking a booking over the web"? I mean, what if somebody sees your phone number on a web page and calls in a booking. Is that still an internet booking? What if you have just an email form, sends you their request? What's that?

What if you only take booking QUERIES via a web form, then the money part is all real-world?

That should NOT constitute a "web or internet booking". I think that some members and officers of TAT don't understand their own regulations.

I posted the thread to see if there were any other incidents, which there were, although others are saying it was a "bond".

I have the info and feedback I needed for my purposes, thanks TVF and all posters on this thread.

Cheers.

Edited September 3, 2007 by southbot

[cclub75]

The pdf was created on 26th January 2007. I don't want to get into an argument but the qualification process for tourism business has always been stringent here, but not unreasonably so. In the case of bearer shares in FBA2 they were explicitly defined as Alien, as they are for the purposes of land purchase by a company. I've just checked the current 'FBA' 1999 and in that bearer shares are also classified as Alien unless "otherwise provided [for] by ministerial regulations" so that is the present position.

You're right for FBA 1. My mistake.

But the wording is... different.

Within FBA 1 (or 2), bearer shares are assumed "foreign". Fair enough.

But with TAT : "its Articles of Association shall not contain a clause which permits it ot issue bearer shares".

My points remains valid (TAT conditions harder than thoses of FBA):

-51 % minimum for thai shareholders

-50 % minimum of thai directors

[jts-khorat]

The TAT is a rather byzantine byrocratic structure with many, many little cogs turnign the wheels. As can be heard here on Phuket some of these cogs from time to time misinterpret unintentional or willfully real or dreamed up regulations. Fees for all kinds of things can vary wildly and can be negotiated, what should not be possible if the rules were clear and understood.

It is another word for corruption and third-world. Just another business risk of staying here