19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Iran is currently enjoying the moral support of nearly the entire world

How would you like to substantiate this. Do you know any Iranians. Perhaps you could ask them.

.

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Who was going to build nukes? Who's been the biggest state sponsor of global terrorism?

You have two different questions. If these were serious questions, you need to be more specific, especially as you think the answer doesn't include Pakistan, Russia or Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia has sponsored global terrorism on an enormous scale. Its a fact that the great majority of Islamist plots outside of the Middle East are Sunni/Salafist in nature, so they are having a global impact.

Iran's activities are more regional, and its really a ideological war between broadly the establisment (Saudi Arabia, guardians of Mecca etc) and the more modern political Islam. Prior to Iran, the struggle was traditionalists (Saudi Arabia) and Muslim Brotherhood (a sort of street version of Islam, with imported ideas from European 'isms), which was broadly "Arab Nationalism"/Sunni. Both of these exist as a thing following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and the rise of Ataturks secular Turkey.

The Iranian Revolution happened, its ideology being a lot more modern than people suppose. The Islamic Republic's constitution is modeled on the French Constitution which itself was based on the US Constitution. In its first years, it was quite nationalist, following on from the Shah who was an expansionist nationalist, claiming most of the Gulf as his, and annexing huge parts of Iraq.

Post Revolution, Iran continued with the Shah's claims on Bahrain, but that simmered down. Iraq launched an invasion to take back former Iraqi territory; that decision likely cemented the direction the Iranian Revolution went, because while there were plenty of anti-Shah elements (and to be clear, the Shah was a despicable individual who was lucky that he died in his bed of cancer), the revolution could have taken a number of directions (the Americans missed an opportunity, they failed to detect the growing dissent, they believed too much of the Shah's men. They failed to make contact with the political opposition and arrange an orderly transfer of power, to a much more democratic Iran. Instead they backed the regimes with the secret police, much like they did in South America).

Islamic Iran was quite nationalist; in Islam, in the Gulf, the Shia are the down trodden lot, looked down by the Sunni. Look at how the Shia, the Marsh Arabs, were treated by Saddam Hussein.

Following the massacres of Shia in South Lebanon, there was genuine anger. These were sectarian killings of their co-religionists. That lead to internationalisation of Iran's interests.

All along, Saudi Arabia as a sponsor of terrorism. They made sure Arafat had plenty of cash, to hijack planes, ships. They sent money to Kashmir, to fund terrorism against India. They funded Mujahadeen againat the Soviets, and then happily funded the Taliban.

Does Saudi Arabia want the Bomb. You betcha. Officially, only if Iran gets one. If Isreal reveals its hand, you can certainly add another condition. They have invested in domestic nuclear reactors, despite not really having any need for nuclear energy. They have identified and are mining domestic sources of uranium. And the real elephant is that they can always buy one. The IAEA remains concerned about Saudi transparency.

And lastly Pakistan. It is a sponsor of terrorists in Kashmir. Its had a heavy hand in Afghanistan. It has nuclear weapons. Being an actual nuclear power and sponsoring terrorism kind of trumps other things.

If we were to score "biggest state sponsor of global terrorism", how would we score it? Number of directly links attacks, deaths, money, global coverage. How much weightage do you apply to a nuclear weapons programme or intent? Serious question to move away from the rhetoric.

8 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

How would you like to substantiate this. Do you know any Iranians. Perhaps you could ask them.

I do. His family fled following the revolution. When Iraq attacked Iran though, guess who he openly cheered for.

10 hours ago, CallumWK said:

How is your side doing apart from serving Mexican fast food dishes every day.

You must think they are winning 55555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

I think its pretty obvious to all but Iran propagandists and gibbering America/Jew haters, but hey, enjoy.

Watch the upcoming fireworks. Trump just gave a last warning. We just took out IRG Headquarters in Tehran with B1s and Bunker busters (great AD over Tehran) and are slamming Karg Island.

Israel warned Iranian civilians to stay off the trains and they are now methodically destroying the Iranian rail system per Fox News in Tel Aviv.

10 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

How would you like to substantiate this.

He never can.

3 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

If we were to score "biggest state sponsor of global terrorism", how would we score it? Number of directly links attacks, deaths, money, global coverage. How much weightage do you apply to a nuclear weapons programme or intent? Serious question to move away from the rhetoric.

Completely agree - its one the very reasons Iran cannot be permitted to develop nuclear capability - because what happens after that is potentially more frightening.

10 hours ago, IsmeUno said:

Do you think Iran is losing the war?

They lost 3 weeks ago.

31 minutes ago, blaze master said:

Yes you made it up. I have disdain for the left though as ive stated before.

Ive also stated so many times that its only rich vs poor. Politics is simply a distraction. I voted liberal in my last provincial election. Been called a liar on many occasions for it. Hence my disdain.

I still consider myself a "Liberal" in classical terms.

23 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

I do. His family fled following the revolution. When Iraq attacked Iran though, guess who he openly cheered for.

This is not substantiating your claim that the Islamic Republic of Iran "is currently enjoying the moral support of nearly the entire world" it's not even close. As for Iranians who made it out of Iran where do you think their support lies. I guess if you get your "news" from CNN etc. you wouldn't have seen Iranian expats fully supporting what Trump is doing. Indeed much of the Middle East despise the brutal regime of the terrorist mullahs and the IRGC. Saying that the fundamentalist Islamic terrorists have the moral support of nearly the entire world sounds like a typical MSM line.

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I guess if you get your "news" from CNN etc. you wouldn't have seen Iranian expats fully supporting what Trump is doing.

I have asked before without an answer but I will try again; Please give a couple examples of sources that you use.

1 minute ago, scottiejohn said:

I have asked before without an answer but I will try again; Please give a couple examples of sources that you use.

You must be joking. Search for yourself. Try YouTube Iranians support Trump's war or something like that. Might have to scroll through a bit because of the left biased algorithm.

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

How would you like to substantiate this. Do you know any Iranians. Perhaps you could ask them.

Virtually everybody that I talk to here in Thailand is anti-American and pro-Iranian, at this point.

Iran has never had more sympathy and that is being caused by the chief goon. Have you seen the Iranian people rising up as predicted? It's just not happening. Failure!!

They can threat I all they like but more likely missile launchers Will be bombed as more intel finds them hidden

6 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Nah! It's the irony. People on the woke radical left are conflicted. Women's rights yet men who think they are women should be able to encroach on women's rights i.e. sports/toilets/changing rooms. Gays for Palestine. No need to explain the irony here. Trump's a fascist yet crickets on thousands if not tens of thousands of protesters in Iran being murdered.

Nope, that's just your obsession and your fantasy of what you think other people want. And you bring it in to every discussion. It is an obsession.

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

LOL. Got it. Guess your video clips are from Iranian state TV.

I doubt their hysterical losing threats will do anything.

As i read all the silliness here that is like watching Tehran Tommy on state TV, all I can think about is Shicklgruber (the hero of the Iran first crowd) hysterically screaming "attack, attack" while fouling himself in the corner of a dingy underground bunker with Ivans outside his door. Some 12 year old with a Mauser 1871 then charges a T34 55555555555

Do you think your doubts will stop Iran from retaliating?

1 minute ago, Hawaiian said:

Do you think your doubts will stop Iran from retaliating?

Sure, they will find some babies to kill, it takes a while to eradicate stupidity. But they would have killed more babies.

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

How would you like to substantiate this. Do you know any Iranians. Perhaps you could ask them.

Spider is right - against Great Satan in this instance the world is rooting for Iran. It's not about the regime it's about the naked unprovoked agression by Israel/Trump following on from the genocide in Gaza. Nobody likes a bully particlualy psycopthaic genocidal ones.

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

That’s not a serious argument - it’s a bundle of recycled slogans pretending to be insight.

The whole “everyone uses proxies” line is a lazy dodge that deliberately blurs the difference between normal geopolitics and actively backing groups like Hamas or Hezbollah that target civilians, which isn’t clever, it’s just intellectually dishonest.

The “yesterday’s terrorist is today’s statesman” cliché gets wheeled out like it’s profound, when really it’s just a way of avoiding dealing with what those groups actually do now.

Then the Netanyahu claim - endlessly repeated, rarely understood - twists limited, indirect policy decisions into some fantasy where Israel is secretly propping up its own enemies, which would be absurd if it weren’t so widely parroted.

And the grand finale of “Iran are the terrorists?” isn’t the gotcha you think it is - states can absolutely sponsor terrorism, and Iran’s support for groups like Hezbollah is hardly a conspiracy theory.

Honestly, it’s the kind of argument that sounds sharp if you don’t look at it too closely - which is presumably the point - its hardly worth the use of oxygen to respond.

I generally like your posts, but this is such an obvious AI post it discredits you.

Apologies if I'm wrong but this screams AI.

3 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Sure, they will find some babies to kill, it takes a while to eradicate stupidity. But they would have killed more babies.

Israel loves the target practice women and children are their speciality - until some settler in Tel Aviv loses their lounge and starts crying foul.

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

They lost 3 weeks ago.

Your arrogance is unbelievable. And pitiable.

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

You must be joking. Search for yourself. Try YouTube Iranians support Trump's war or something like that. Might have to scroll through a bit because of the left biased algorithm.

So you can't provide sources.

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

I generally like your posts, but this is such an obvious AI post it discredits you.

Apologies if I'm wrong but this screams AI.

Well spotted - thought the same myself so got out the AI to check. A Standards of Conduct Rule 12 no less. I beleive in the international rules based order and charity begins at home.

12. AI use is allowed only in small amounts (a short paragraph). Posts must also include your own views. AI-only posts will be removed. Please mark AI use with “AI supported.”

This is almost certainly AI-generated—or, at the very least, a human has used an AI to "punch up" an argument to make it sound more sophisticated and dismissive.

As someone with an eye for "Signals," you’ve likely noticed the tone feels a bit too polished and the rhythm a bit too consistent. To an "Inspector," there are several "fingerprints" in that text that scream machine-learning logic rather than a person typing in a heat of the moment.

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

How would you like to substantiate this. Do you know any Iranians. Perhaps you could ask them.

Wouldn't you need to ask the rest of the world to substantiate that?

I have three Iranian friends here in Bangkok. They hated their regime and are glad it is gone (although it is being replaced by more of the same).

But they hate what America and Israel is doing more as it is putting their families and friends at risk. Trump is threatening war crimes daily, they can't contact their family.

Everyone sensible human being hates what America and Israel is doing now. And most people are cheering for Iran because of it.

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

I think its pretty obvious to all but Iran propagandists and gibbering America/Jew haters, but hey, enjoy.

Watch the upcoming fireworks. Trump just gave a last warning. We just took out IRG Headquarters in Tehran with B1s and Bunker busters (great AD over Tehran) and are slamming Karg Island.

Israel warned Iranian civilians to stay off the trains and they are now methodically destroying the Iranian rail system per Fox News in Tel Aviv.

We , we we, where doth the plastic patriot live - prithee do tell ? Very few people here hate Jews though I can't rule out self-loathing from some.

7 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Your arrogance is unbelievable. And pitiable.

My truth is real though thats why you screech hystericly

11 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Israel loves the target practice women and children are their speciality - until some settler in Tel Aviv loses their lounge and starts crying foul.

Love your new avatar. Hows Mommys basement 5555555555

Keep on gibbering

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Wouldn't you need to ask the rest of the world to substantiate that?

I have three Iranian friends here in Bangkok. They hated their regime and are glad it is gone (although it is being replaced by more of the same).

But they hate what America and Israel is doing more as it is putting their families and friends at risk. Trump is threatening war crimes daily, they can't contact their family.

Everyone sensible human being hates what America and Israel is doing now. And most people are cheering for Iran because of it.

I can't like your post enough. Thanks for the sane and wise words based on the real world not some old men's warped fantasies.

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

My truth is real though thats why you screech hystericly

Love your new avatar. Hows Mommys basement 5555555555

Keep on gibbering

Thanks your place or mine ?

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Completely agree - its one the very reasons Iran cannot be permitted to develop nuclear capability - because what happens after that is potentially more frightening.

Only Zionist nut jobs think that Iran would ever use a nuke- like Isarel it wants one to prevent external agression from Israel in the neighbourhood one that this bastard upstart forced their way in in 1947 and committed ethic cleansing, massacres and terror. I hope they get one and then all this unessary crap could have been avoided. Iran is a rational actor defending their national soverignity and always has been.Oh and this Iran ain't this level crazy and never will be.

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Only Zionist nut jobs think that Iran would ever use a nuke- like Isarel it wants one to prevent external agression from Israel in the neighbourhood one that this bastard upstart forced their way in in 1947 and committed ethic cleansing, massacres and terror.

Then I must be a “Zionist nut job” - I’ll let others decide that.

What I will say is this: I’ve spent time working in Israel and mostly across the rest of Middle East. Not reading headlines - actually being there, dealing with people, cultures, politics, religion, and all the messy realities in between. So I’m not speaking from ideology or tribal loyalty. I don’t have a dog in this fight.

I’ve got no affection for the current Israeli government, and none for the Iranian regime either. Criticising one doesn’t require pretending the other is harmless.

Here’s the uncomfortable truth people like to ignore: Israelis and Arabs are far more alike than outsiders admit - culturally, socially, even in how they argue and negotiate. This isn’t some simple good-versus-evil story. It never has been.

But Iran pursuing nuclear weapons is a real and present danger. Whether they would actually use one is a separate debate full of hypotheticals and guesswork. What isn’t hypothetical is what happens next.

If Iran goes nuclear, others in the region will follow. That’s not opinion - that’s how deterrence works. And “deterrence” in a region where missiles are already fired at each other far more often than most people realise isn’t some abstract theory. It’s a powder keg.

So no - this isn’t about being a “Zionist” or anything else. It’s about recognising risk, reality, and the very predictable consequences of escalation in one of the most volatile regions on earth.

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I hope they get one and then all this unessary crap could have been avoided. Iran is a rational actor defending their national soverignity and always has been.Oh and this Iran ain't this level crazy and never will be.

And that right there is the fundamental flaw in that line of thinking - because this isn’t really about Israel at all.

And it’s not about Iran just wanting to be left alone to “defend its sovereignty” - thats a woke soft line of thinking.

Iran hasn’t behaved like a country that simply wants to sit quietly within its borders for a very long time. It has consistently acted like a state that sees itself as a regional power - It wants to be the dominant one.

Just look at the pattern, not the slogans:

- The Iran-Iraq War - not just a defensive war, but one that hardened Iran’s ambition to project power beyond its borders.

- The Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict - decades of competition for regional dominance, not coexistence.

- The Syrian Civil War - where Iran has poured in money, weapons, and militias to prop up Assad and secure influence.

- The Yemen Civil War - backing the Houthis against Saudi interests.

- The Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza - long-standing proxy relationships used to extend reach and pressure rivals.

That’s not the behaviour of a country that just wants to be left alone. That’s a country shaping the region in its own image, by force where necessary.

So no - this isn’t about “anti-Israel thinking”. It’s about recognising that Iran is an active player in destabilising conflicts across the Middle East. Calling it purely defensive ignores decades of evidence.

Now take that reality and add nuclear weapons into the mix.

If Iran goes nuclear, Saudi Arabia won’t sit on its hands. Neither will the UAE, Turkey, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain. You don’t get one nuclear power in that region - you get several. Fast.

Ask yourself honestly - are you comfortable with multiple regimes in one of the most volatile regions on earth holding nuclear weapons? - you seem to think its OK for Iran to have them, Iraq ??? Saudi ? where do you draw the line, Afghanistan ?

A nuclear Middle East isn’t some neat Cold War-style balance. It’s a region where missiles are already exchanged, where conflicts are tangled with religion, identity, and proxy wars.

Strip religion out for a second and imagine something closer to home - Northern Ireland during the worst years of the Troubles, but with nuclear capability. One miscalculation, one extremist faction, one bad decision - and the consequences are no longer local. They’re global.

And that’s the part people casually waving this idea away don’t seem to grasp.

A nuclear detonation in that region doesn’t just stay there. You’re talking about disruption to global oil and petrochemicals, fertiliser supply chains, shipping routes, energy markets - the knock-on effects hit food production worldwide. Prices spike, supply collapses, and suddenly you’re not debating politics on a screen - you’re dealing with shortages.

So no - hoping Iran “gets one” isn’t some clever shortcut to peace. It’s rolling the dice on a chain reaction that reshapes the Middle East and sends shockwaves through the entire global system.

"I hope they get one" (Iran getting a nuclear weapon) isn't the balanced "let's make the equal" commentary some think it might be - its myopic, its short sighted it missises the whole nuance of the Middle East conflicts that have gone on for decades - its not only ignorant - its a statement of extreme naivety highlighting how political bias can so effectively blind seemingly educated people.

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Dealing with this separately - because while I disagree with your earlier points (my reply above), on this I’m with you.

This kind of statement is reckless, inflammatory, and completely unfit for someone who holds 'any' political power. Trump should not be anywhere near the levers of influence if this is the level of judgement being exercised.

That said - and this is where people keep collapsing two different arguments into one - rejecting the man does not mean rejecting the reality of the situation.

You can think Trump is deeply flawed, unfit for office, and dangerous in how he communicates - and still recognise that the issue of Iran is not “unnecessary” or manufactured - thats where I am at (and apparently It makes me 'Zionist' to some.... a Trump supporter to others.

But... even without Trump, the strategic concern remains.

The structure of power in Iran - the Islamic Republic of Iran, its Islamic Consultative Assembly, and above all the Guardian Council - creates a system where long-term ideological direction sits above short-term democratic change.

That’s not about personalities in Washington - it’s about how power is actually organised in Tehran.

So go ahead - remove Trump from the equation entirely. The tone improves, the rhetoric calms down.

But the underlying question doesn’t go away: what do you do about a system that, over decades, has shown a consistent willingness to project power, influence regional conflicts, and push toward capabilities that shift the balance of the entire region?

You don’t have to like the messenger to recognise the message isn’t entirely wrong.

And that’s the uncomfortable part a lot of people are failing to see - so blinded by the Trump pantomime and Theatre - the real geo-political story is issues are being drowned out.