33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh no!

You don’t like the way I framed it!

What topics have you started lately?

Do you think.I make money on clicks here?

The normal hope in starting any topic is the hope others might be interested enough to think about and maybe discuss the topic presumably because they themselves are interested in the topic.

Some topics result in no public interest and some resonate well.

What do you suggest?

That people make an effort to.make sure their topics are duds?

I could have framed it this way.

Headline

Boring video below

Intro

This video is worthless. Don't waste your time with it.

“Clickbait framing” just means the title/intro implies a bigger drama than what the video actually shows. The guy mostly seems like a retiree living where his pension stretches further — not some stranded expat disaster story.

People are obviously free to discuss it either way, but that was the point I was making.

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Something I've thought about in the past but is still the case.

For people who have been incarcerated (prison) for a long time, there are often such things as half way houses to assist people to transition back into society.

Such an infrastructure or social understand for long term returning expats doesn't exist.

You won't be getting any sympathy from strangers about this. Oh, so you've been living in a tropical "paradise" for many years, have you? People won't be able to relate to you one bit.

Maybe that's the answer. Get sent to prison first and then you might be social support later. Kidding of course.

Actually (in the uk) you could choose another route, walk into a local ER, complain of chest pains etc - that would get you admitted immediately- then from the bed, you could then involve social services etc - not easy but it "could" be an option rather than sleeping rough as a senior! Classed as a "vulnerable adult" they couldn't eject you without a safe place to go to, but lord knows what room or house of shared occupation you'd end up in.

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Pretty much my position. Having moved here in 2005 and 'sold up' in the UK in 2007, there's no way I could afford to move back with my (relatively) young family.

Yeah I'm convinced very many, probably most very long term expats would fit somewhere on the range I mentioned before. Rare would be a very long term expat who can't relate to these issues.

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Actually (in the uk) you could choose another route, walk into a local ER, complain of chest pains etc - that would get you admitted immediately- then from the bed, you could then involve social services etc - not easy but it "could" be an option rather than sleeping rough as a senior! Classed as a "vulnerable adult" they couldn't eject you without a safe place to go to, but lord knows what room or house of shared occupation you'd end up in.

Thanks for that though that sounds extreme.

I admit to having a US-centric POV but I doubt any western countries have half way houses for returning expats the same as ex cons.

5 minutes ago, Nemises said:

“Clickbait framing” just means the title/intro implies a bigger drama than what the video actually shows. The guy mostly seems like a retiree living where his pension stretches further — not some stranded expat disaster story.

People are obviously free to discuss it either way, but that was the point I was making.

To me it came across as obnoxious SNIPING. Go figure.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

To me it came across as obnoxious SNIPING. Go figure

Fair enough — wasn’t intended as sniping. I was commenting on the framing of the topic, not having a go at you personally.

Forums would be pretty dull if everyone interpreted things exactly the same way anyway.

22 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Its not that easy or straight forward unfortunately- if I went "home" the only thing the same would be the ground!

English is not the main language there now - signage is even in foreign languages - I wouldn't know anyone around me - Id be the ethnic minority - and honestly- couldnt afford a place to rent even if there was one available, which is doubtful. Id have to search for a town or area that was still predominantly English, and throw myself at the mercy of the local council and or/charity organisations for assistance. Handling and processing all that, suitcase in tow, no bank account or means of obtaining one, and probably living out of a cheap B&B in the meantime does not exactly enthral me.

That "could" be the reality for many Brits if they had to "go home" and had no family support network remaining.

Theres an interesting topic about all this and a geniune real life story about this here:

Thailand is more fun provided you can deal with pollution and visas. If they had the same visa as Cambodia and less pollution be paradise. Id divide my time between CM, Udon and Prachuap coast line.

My home and land here in Thailand is worth about what I paid for my home and land in the US 25 years ago, roughly $85,000, and completely paid for with no mortgage. I buy everything cash including my car (so much for the trope that we have no savings). My home that cost around $85,000 in the 1990s is now around 1/2 a million USD. In the 1990 I could easily afford a home. Today? Like most Americans, I'm completely priced out of the market.

Sure, I could move back the the US, but why would I want to be paying $2000 to $3000 USD a month for rent? The cheapest car costs over $20,000 USD? Then taxes, taxes, taxes.

I have a good life here and have no desire to move back to the US. Other than family, there isn't anything in the US that I want.

For a US citizen, this is what AI has suggested.

If an older American had to return to the US after decades abroad with little money, the first priority would simply be stabilising the basics quickly.

• Get a mailing address first.
  Even a family address, friend, church, veterans organisation, or temporary shelter address helps. Almost everything in the US system depends on having an address.

• Replace or secure documents immediately.
  Passport, Social Security number/card, birth certificate, state ID. Without ID, almost nothing moves forward.

• Apply for Social Security straight away if eligible.
  For many returning seniors this becomes the core income source within weeks or months.

• Apply for Medicaid and Medicare.
  Healthcare is the biggest financial risk in the US. Low-income seniors can often get substantial help.

• Contact the local Area Agency on Aging (AAA).
  Almost every county has one. They help seniors connect with:

  • housing,

  • meals,

  • transport,

  • benefit applications,

  • healthcare support,

  • welfare programs,

  • carers and social workers.

• Apply for SNAP (food assistance).
  Pride becomes expensive when you are older and broke. Use every support available.

• Get onto senior housing waiting lists immediately.
  Even if the wait is long, the clock starts running once you apply.

• Use community support.
  Churches, senior centres, veteran groups, charities and immigrant support organisations often help far more practically than government offices.

• Avoid isolation.
  This is probably underestimated. Older returnees who isolate themselves mentally often spiral fast. Staying socially connected matters almost as much as money.

And honestly, one of the biggest advantages for a returning senior in the US is simply speaking the language, understanding the culture, and having legal rights in their own country again. Even after 30 years abroad, that still matters when rebuilding stability.

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

^^^^
Jing, read above and paste it on your bathroom mirror. Chant it each morning.

There is a lot of wisdom in CharlieH's post.

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

Actually (in the uk) you could choose another route, walk into a local ER, complain of chest pains etc - that would get you admitted immediately- then from the bed, you could then involve social services etc - not easy but it "could" be an option rather than sleeping rough as a senior! Classed as a "vulnerable adult" they couldn't eject you without a safe place to go to, but lord knows what room or house of shared occupation you'd end up in.

Don't try that in Australia

I actually have seen it first hand where a sick person has come into Emergency department only to be given a vomit bucket and told to sit in the waiting room waiting for the triage

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Often about retired people but not necessarily.

I think this is much more common than people might assume.

Each expat has their own specific story and it doesn't need to be a case as extreme as not being able to afford a plane ticket, but rather about how harsh the actual reality would be upon repatriation (by choice or pushed).

The expat in this video (living in the Philippines) has his own specific story that will in detail be different than others, but there are many possible mixes of specific circumstances that would add up to the same grim conclusion of not really being able to afford to have an acceptable life back home.

His specifics-

A reasonably sufficient pension for Asean

A local partner that he supports.

Apparently, no significant savings other than pension income

Burnt bridges -- lack of a support system to attach to back home

Old age -- beyond hope of starting over with new work situations

I see this as a range.

From the extreme case of not being to afford even an airline ticket to less severe of knowing a life back home would add up to a major degradation in quality of life.

I think somewhere in that range for long term expats is very very common. I'm guessing that probably the middle of that range being relevant to the highest number of long term especially retired expats.

Something to consider for those who haven't made the jump yet. There may be long term

consequences you haven't even thought about.

What are you saying.

You are trying to get rid of me?

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

And honestly, one of the biggest advantages for a returning senior in the US is simply speaking the language, understanding the culture

Although, of course, I DO speak American English...

I do NOT understand the culture.

The USA is a foreign culture to me, and a foreign country, as well.

I would be OK returning to America in the year 1975, or before.

But, due to entropy, this will never happen.

@Jingthing TBH, this is not a new topic of discussion. I have seen a number of similar versions of it posted for years, and most of it usually amounts to a lot of whining.

I also think the reality is almost the opposite for many expats who moved to Asia 30 or 40 years ago. A lot of them arrived at a time when there was still enormous economic opportunity for foreigners in industries and markets that were relatively untapped. Much of that opportunity no longer exists for people arriving today, but the people who actually succeeded in that environment decades ago are probably not sitting around on forums like this discussing the challenges of the cost of living with a bunch of pensioners lamenting their limited prospects. Frankly, many of them built fuller and more interesting lives than that.

Quite a few are now comfortably established. Most of the ones I know travel when they want, own property, sometimes maintain a second home back in the West, and generally have options. The idea that there is this vast population of long term foreigners in Southeast Asia who are somehow trapped because they can no longer function elsewhere strikes me as largely fictional. If anything, the number of people genuinely stuck without alternatives is probably far smaller than the number who simply chose to remain in Asia because it worked out well for them.

I am not saying this to be smug or provocative. I just honestly do not know many people who fit the stereotype that gets repeated so often online. Most of the expats I know who spent decades in Asia landed on their feet or they wouldn't have lasted in Asia as long as they have. In many cases, they became substantially more prosperous than they likely would have been had they remained in the West.

I can say the same for myself. The ability to earn well while benefiting from lower costs for housing, healthcare, taxes, and day to day living created opportunities to save and invest that I probably never would have had if I had stayed back home. Geography matters, but timing, discipline, and long term thinking matter more.

And ultimately, that is the uncomfortable part of the conversation people often avoid. A lot of those who ended up financially insecure were not victims of Asia, or even of changes in the West itself. More often, they were poor planners. They failed to build anything durable while they were younger and still had the chance. Too much time was spent floundering, drifting through distractions or living entirely in the present instead of treating those years as an opportunity to secure a future. Now, many of them are simply realizing that time ran out faster than they expected.

Edited May 20May 20 by Kyoto Kyle

Some people can afford to return, others can't. But many simply have little or nothing to return to. If you have no property in your home country, and are considered a non-resident-for-tax-purposes in that country, there is a big disinsentive to even consider going back. First, (Americans aside) you become a tax resident again and lose 25-30% of your income, but you have no home - and must rent or buy some place. I think that is the main reason that many don't go back long-term. Of course if you have property there and are paying tax on rental incomes, etc., then a different story.

5 minutes ago, Kyoto Kyle said:

@Jingthing TBH, this is not a new topic of discussion. I have seen a number of similar versions of it posted for years, and most of it usually amounts to a lot of whining.

I also think the reality is almost the opposite for many expats who moved to Asia 30 or 40 years ago. A lot of them arrived at a time when there was still enormous economic opportunity for foreigners in industries and markets that were relatively untapped. Much of that opportunity no longer exists for people arriving today, but the people who actually succeeded in that environment decades ago are probably not sitting around on forums like this discussing the challenges of the cost of living with a bunch of pensioners lamenting their limited prospects. Frankly, many of them built fuller and more interesting lives than that.

Quite a few are now comfortably established. Most of the ones I know travel when they want, own property, sometimes maintain a second home back in the West, and generally have options. The idea that there is this vast population of long term foreigners in Southeast Asia who are somehow trapped because they can no longer function elsewhere strikes me as largely fictional. If anything, the number of people genuinely stuck without alternatives is probably far smaller than the number who simply chose to remain in Asia because it worked out well for them.

I am not saying this to be smug or provocative. I just honestly do not know many people who fit the stereotype that gets repeated so often online. Most of the expats I know who spent decades in Asia landed on their feet or they wouldn't have lasted in Asia as long as they have. In many cases, they became substantially more prosperous than they likely would have been had they remained in the West.

I can say the same for myself. The ability to earn well while benefiting from lower costs for housing, healthcare, taxes, and day to day living created opportunities to save and invest that I probably never would have had if I had stayed back home. Geography matters, but timing, discipline, and long term thinking matter more.

And ultimately, that is the uncomfortable part of the conversation people often avoid. A lot of those who ended up financially insecure were not victims of Asia, or even of changes in the West itself. More often, they were poor planners. They failed to build anything durable while they were younger and still had the chance. Too much time was spent floundering, drifting through distractions or living entirely in the present instead of treating those years as an opportunity to secure a future. Now, many of them are simply realizing that time ran out faster than they expected.

Sounds as if you're mostly talking about people who came here to work and do business.

Really, I'm talking mostly about people who came for retirement.

Also I think the narrative here is really about people retiring abroad to any lower cost country in the world, or at least was lower cost when they arrived.

Not specially about Asean destinations.

If you think the issues here are rare and you don't see it, thanks for sharing.

As I've said, I'm sure they are very common.

"Trapped" is a very strong word which I haven't used.

If you can buy a ticket out and the vast majority can if they want or need to, you're not trapped. But the question is what's waiting at the end of the flight.

Edited May 20May 20 by Jingthing

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I don't agree at all.

I don't think people think about repatriating after a long time at all.

The reason more people don't move abroad is because of FEAR of the unknown, attachments at home, that practically it's often a very hard thing to do, and just how in general people dream about doing things they never do. Human nature.

Perhaps my context wasn't great, but that's what I said.........

"Shame in a way, as I think some overthink it and don't come, when they have been used to safety nets all their lives and are too scared to give it a go;"...............................

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sounds as if you're mostly talking about people who came here to work and do business.

Really, I'm talking mostly about people who came for retirement.

Yes and no. Most of the people I am talking about did not originally come to Asia when they were already middle aged. They came when they were younger looking for a more interesting life, different opportunities, or simply a different path. Over time, many of them found their way into business or careers because that was necessary if they wanted to build a stable long term life here. In the process, they found ways to secure themselves financially. Now they are retired too, but they are retirees with options.

That is really the distinction I am making. They are not trapped here living on a small pension with nowhere else to go because they spent decades building something for themselves while they had the opportunity. In many cases, Asia gave them opportunities they probably would not have had back home.

I think the people you are focused on who struggle most in retirement are often the ones who treated Asia as an escape, or as a permanent low cost holding pattern, rather than a place where they still needed to build long term security for themselves. Eventually, time catches up with everyone no matter where they are. The people you are describing likely would have ended up in the same position regardless of where they chose to live.

2 minutes ago, Kyoto Kyle said:

Yes and no. Most of the people I am talking about did not originally come to Asia when they were already middle aged. They came when they were younger looking for a more interesting life, different opportunities, or simply a different path. Over time, many of them found their way into business or careers because that was necessary if they wanted to build a stable long term life here. In the process, they found ways to secure themselves financially. Now they are retired too, but they are retirees with options.

That is really the distinction I am making. They are not trapped here living on a small pension with nowhere else to go because they spent decades building something for themselves while they had the opportunity. In many cases, Asia gave them opportunities they probably would not have had back home.

I think the people you are focused on who struggle most in retirement are often the ones who treated Asia as an escape, or as a permanent low cost holding pattern, rather than a place where they still needed to build long term security for themselves. Eventually, time catches up with everyone no matter where they are. The people you are describing likely would have ended up in the same position regardless of where they chose to live.

Anyway, I'm not interested in replying to you in detail. You have your POV and I can't relate to it very well. Again, thanks for sharing. Everyone is different.

I will say this though.

Over the years we get posts of retirees fimancially struggling in Thailand. Still hanging on OK but struggling. The advice is almost always go home. I question that. In some cases, they might have something better back home waiting for them. In many others, if they're struggling here, they would be homeless and sooner dead back home. So better here.

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Anyway, I'm not interested in replying to you in detail. You have your POV and I can't relate to it very well. Again, thanks for sharing. Everyone is different.

I will say this though.

Over the years we get posts of retirees fimancially struggling in Thailand. Still hanging on OK but struggling. The advice is almost always go home. I question that. In some cases, they might have something better back home waiting for them. In many others, if they're struggling here, they would be homeless and sooner dead back home. So better here.

I've usually suggested they economise on their spending.

Your children don't need to attend private schools, you don't need medical insurance, gym, wine or food from your home country.

Housing is cheap (condo 2,500bht/month, house 8,000bht/month).

Old age (for most people anywhere in the world) is living within your means!

I doubt there's many foreigners that actually NEED to spend more than 20kbht/month.

Which I could easily live on without supporting a family.

Edited May 20May 20 by BritManToo

Always keep enough for a campervan simple as that🤔

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Anyway, I'm not interested in replying to you in detail. You have your POV and I can't relate to it very well. Again, thanks for sharing. Everyone is different.

I will say this though.

Over the years we get posts of retirees fimancially struggling in Thailand. Still hanging on OK but struggling. The advice is almost always go home. I question that. In some cases, they might have something better back home waiting for them. In many others, if they're struggling here, they would be homeless and sooner dead back home. So better here.

I actually do agree with that part to some extent. If someone is already elderly, financially struggling, and has spent decades away from their home country, telling them to simply “go home” can be detached from reality. For some people, there is no real home left to return to in any meaningful sense, economically or socially. In certain cases, surviving modestly where they are now may genuinely be preferable to being isolated, homeless, or unable to afford basic living costs back in the West as you mentioned.

But I also think that is a separate question from how they ended up in that position in the first place. My point was never that people struggling in retirement deserve it. It is that many of the long term expats who came decades ago did manage to build stable and prosperous lives for themselves here, and those people are largely invisible in these discussions because they are not the ones putting up YouTube videos or posting on forums about their financial desperation.

So I think both realities exist at the same time. There are people quietly living well, and there are others hanging on at the margins. But I do not think the second group represents the majority of foreigners living in Asia.

2 hours ago, CharlieH said:

And honestly, one of the biggest advantages for a returning senior in the US is simply speaking the language, understanding the culture, and having legal rights in their own country again. Even after 30 years abroad, that still matters when rebuilding stability.

I think that depends entirely on the individual. After living abroad for 30 years, many people also speak the local language, understand the culture, and in some cases even have permanent residency or other long term legal status. At a certain point, the place you moved to stops feeling temporary.

I have gone back to my birth country many times over the years, and honestly, I often feel more out of place there than I do in Asia. The language is not the issue. It is more that after decades away, your relationship to the culture, social norms, and even the general mentality changes. You slowly adapt to a different way of living and thinking.

Sometimes I even notice that people back home see me differently because I am no longer fully in sync with local conversations, trends, or assumptions. Meanwhile, Asia feels more natural and familiar to me now. That is not really something I consciously chose. It is just what happens after building a life somewhere else for decades.

So while returning “home” may sound straightforward on paper, for many long term expats it no longer feels emotionally or culturally that simple at all.

His story really isn't about retiring in Asia. It's about being in a financially vulnerable position in retirement. It's quite a common predicament, unfortunately.

At least in the Phils he's got enough money from his Social Security benefit to make a go of it for now.

He seems to have build a decent, albeit modest, life there and I hope he is happy and enjoys many more years. He may or may not realize it yet, but I think he's "home" already.

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Actually (in the uk) you could choose another route, walk into a local ER, complain of chest pains etc - that would get you admitted immediately- then from the bed, you could then involve social services etc - not easy but it "could" be an option rather than sleeping rough as a senior! Classed as a "vulnerable adult" they couldn't eject you without a safe place to go to, but lord knows what room or house of shared occupation you'd end up in.

The last few years changed how I look at growing old in Europe.

Across much of Europe, elderly people are expected to stay at home as long as possible, while care systems are already under pressure.

That may sound practical on paper, but in real life it can become a cold and undignified transition when people finally need full-time care.

Asia is not perfect either. It might even be worse in some ways. But with a good plan, preparation, family, and some luck, I still believe I may be better off here.

Time will show.

Delete

Edited May 20May 20 by Fat is a type of crazy

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Anyway, I'm not interested in replying to you in detail. You have your POV and I can't relate to it very well. Again, thanks for sharing. Everyone is different.

I will say this though.

Over the years we get posts of retirees fimancially struggling in Thailand. Still hanging on OK but struggling. The advice is almost always go home. I question that. In some cases, they might have something better back home waiting for them. In many others, if they're struggling here, they would be homeless and sooner dead back home. So better here.

I also want to add that I did not watch the video in your original post, but I have been to the Philippines a number of times, initially as a tourist and later for work. Personally, I was never particularly impressed by it, and it is not somewhere I would even consider moving to.

At the time I also had a friend who was living and working there and he did well. He eventually went back to his country in Europe because he never really liked the place. Personal safety and security was an even bigger issue for him and his wife once they started raising a child. He also told me he would have never chosen it as a first option and would have preferred to live in Thailand when he had moved there, but he was unable to find work in Thailand and ended up taking up a good work opportunity in the Philippines instead.

I have also met a number of Filipino people over the years, including sharing a house with one when I was much younger. While many speak English well, some lack real sincerity and I did not always find it easy to connect with certain cultural nuances in the same way I do in other Asian countries.

Because of that, I do sometimes question the judgment of people who choose to retire there, at least from my own perspective and experiences. In my view, deciding to settle in a place like the Philippines for retirement is not necessarily the strongest decision when it comes to safety, stability, healthcare, quality of life, food, and long term comfort, although of course everyone has different preferences and priorities.

Edited May 20May 20 by Kyoto Kyle

6 hours ago, CharlieH said:

The problem is usually the things you never see coming. You live within your means, the weather is better, daily life feels easier, and things tick along fine, until suddenly they don’t.

Two events I think of. First, when some embassies stopped issuing income eight or nine years ago, that filtered out a lot of people. Then, even bigger, was Covid. Many of us remained in Thailand during Covid, but a lot bugged out. And I think a lot never returned. Me? I'm comfortable here, after coming in 2010 to teach at Mahidol right before I retired. I take care of my wife and her niece because I want to. I've taken care of somebody, somewhere, all my life. I would feel at a loss not to be doing so.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Anyway, I'm not interested in replying to you in detail. You have your POV and I can't relate to it very well. Again, thanks for sharing. Everyone is different.

I will say this though.

Over the years we get posts of retirees fimancially struggling in Thailand. Still hanging on OK but struggling. The advice is almost always go home. I question that. In some cases, they might have something better back home waiting for them. In many others, if they're struggling here, they would be homeless and sooner dead back home. So better here.

Yes.

Better dead than forced to live in Florida, these days.

Better dead than live with druggies in New Mexico, although I have never been and would not go there.

Better dead than alive outside Asia, in fact.

Would it not be horrible to make the choice to return to the USA and then find that America no longer exists?

Then....

What does one do???

Then, one is really up the river without a paddle.

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Don't try that in Australia

I actually have seen it first hand where a sick person has come into Emergency department only to be given a vomit bucket and told to sit in the waiting room waiting for the triage

And you mopped up the overflow.