Tourist Visa Extension Troubles

[Krub]

Correction. The OP has another option. He can continue to leave the country and apply for 60 day tourist visas. Maybe he will get 7 day extensions on them in country, maybe 30, maybe he won't even try for extensions. Based on my reading of the forums for awhile,. there are still lots of people living in Thailand using a combination of tourist visas, in country extensions, and 30 day stamps. No reason the OP can't continue to try to do this and probably stay for years. Not much security I admit, but I still think it is folly to imagine things about the "spirit" of the law that are written NOWHERE.

Such a person is NOT a criminal, and not a bad guy, as long as he is able to obtain the necessary visas to stay and does not overstay he is legally in exactly the same position as those who have one year visas. Shorter leash is all.

Agreed

The OP is NOT a criminal and probably not a bad guy either.

But

I still think that it is abusing the system that was not designed for long stays.

If the authorities start refusing and/or making it more difficult to obtain tourist visas to people using them back to back (as they did for the 30 days no visa stays), I think it will be a result of these abuses and the majority will be paying for a minority.

[Jingthing]

I don't see it as abuse. I see it as obtaining legal permissions of stay in smaller chunks of time. People on longer stays are denied as well for often irrational reasons. The tourist visa system is designed for 60 day stays EACH TIME. There is nothing written to say you can't be an eternal tourist here. Again, where is it written? Nowhere I think.

Again, you are just making up theories as to why there is flaky enforcement on this issue. There is flaky enforcement on other visa classes as well! Why even start to try to make sense of the motivations behind it? This is black and white, every time you need a permission to stay, the answer is either yes or no. Thats the whole story.

Edited August 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[Krub]

I don't see it as abuse. I see it as obtaining legal permissions of stay in smaller chunks of time. People on longer stays are denied as well for often irrational reasons. The tourist visa system is designed for 60 day stays EACH TIME. There is nothing written to say you can't be an eternal tourist here. Again, where is it written? Nowhere I think.

Again, you are just making up theories as to why there is flaky enforcement on this issue. There is flaky enforcement on other visa classes as well! Why even start to try to make sense of the motivations behind it? This is black and white, every time you need a permission to stay, the answer is either yes or no. Thats the whole story.

If it was black or white there wouldbe no need for a board like this one.

My experience is that it is very very grey indeed in Thailand both on the side of the visa seeker and the auhtorities.

The uncertainty of the outcome of an application is very unsettling at best but as the officers have a large free hand (at discretion) much more so in Thailand than in any cuntries I have had to deal with immigration it also plays many time in our favour.

[Jingthing]

I don't see it as abuse. I see it as obtaining legal permissions of stay in smaller chunks of time. People on longer stays are denied as well for often irrational reasons. The tourist visa system is designed for 60 day stays EACH TIME. There is nothing written to say you can't be an eternal tourist here. Again, where is it written? Nowhere I think.

Again, you are just making up theories as to why there is flaky enforcement on this issue. There is flaky enforcement on other visa classes as well! Why even start to try to make sense of the motivations behind it? This is black and white, every time you need a permission to stay, the answer is either yes or no. Thats the whole story.

If it was black or white there wouldbe no need for a board like this one.

My experience is that it is very very grey indeed in Thailand both on the side of the visa seeker and the auhtorities.

The uncertainty of the outcome of an application is very unsettling at best but as the officers have a large free hand (at discretion) much more so in Thailand than in any cuntries I have had to deal with immigration it also plays many time in our favour.

It is grey before the decision. I have said as much. Yes, this forum is needed to help us understand the best strategies to use that give us a greater chance of visa success.

It is black and white after the decision, yes or no.

The core of my point is that there is little rationality behind the flaky enforcement here. To try to apply rational explanations to everything that happens is kind of like expecting men to understand women. Not in this lifetime.

At the current time, there is no official restriction on people using a combo of tourist visas, extensions, and the limited 30 day stamps to stay a very long time in Thailand. There isn't anything written saying you can do this as well. But there is nothing wrong with trying and I reject labeling this as abuse.

If the Thai authorities were serious about stopping this, they could easily pass a law saying only one or two tourist visas in a year. Yes, they did restrict 30 day stamps. But they stopped at that. Nothing was passed restricting tourist visas, so applying for them again and again and again is not abuse, it is following the laws as they now stand.

Krub, we can agree to disagree. I understand your perspective. I just look at this situation a different way.

Edited August 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[Krub]

I don't see it as abuse. I see it as obtaining legal permissions of stay in smaller chunks of time. People on longer stays are denied as well for often irrational reasons. The tourist visa system is designed for 60 day stays EACH TIME. There is nothing written to say you can't be an eternal tourist here. Again, where is it written? Nowhere I think.

Again, you are just making up theories as to why there is flaky enforcement on this issue. There is flaky enforcement on other visa classes as well! Why even start to try to make sense of the motivations behind it? This is black and white, every time you need a permission to stay, the answer is either yes or no. Thats the whole story.

If it was black or white there wouldbe no need for a board like this one.

My experience is that it is very very grey indeed in Thailand both on the side of the visa seeker and the auhtorities.

The uncertainty of the outcome of an application is very unsettling at best but as the officers have a large free hand (at discretion) much more so in Thailand than in any cuntries I have had to deal with immigration it also plays many time in our favour.

It is grey before the decision. I have said as much. Yes, this forum is needed to help us understand the best strategies to use that give us a greater chance of visa success.

It is black and white after the decision, yes or no.

The core of my point is that there is little rationality behind the flaky enforcement here. To try to apply rational explanations to everything that happens is kind of like expecting men to understand women. Not in this lifetime.

At the current time, there is no official restriction on people using a combo of tourist visas, extensions, and the limited 30 day stamps to stay a very long time in Thailand. There isn't anything written saying you can do this as well. But there is nothing wrong with trying and I reject labeling this as abuse.

If the Thai authorities were serious about stopping this, they could easily pass a law saying only one or two tourist visas in a year. Yes, they did restrict 30 day stamps. But they stopped at that. Nothing was passed restricting tourist visas, so applying for them again and again and again is not abuse, it is following the laws as they now stand.

Fair enough I can see your point but I still think that the restriction on the 30 days stamp was a direct result of back to back (legal) usage.

My point is that using the TV back to back will eventually see them restricted also which will be a pity as some guys will again fall into no category available

English is not my first language so 'abuse' may not be appropriate but it is using the system (legally I admit) in a way it was not intended to.

[Jingthing]

Fair enough I can see your point but I still think that the restriction on the 30 days stamp was a direct result of back to back (legal) usage.

My point is that using the TV back to back will eventually see them restricted also which will be a pity as some guys will again fall into no category available

English is not my first language so 'abuse' may not be appropriate but it is using the system (legally I admit) in a way it was not intended to.

Again, you are assuming you KNOW the reason 30 day stamps were restricted! You do not!

When this ruling happened there were many messages from high immigration officials that the reason was that they wanted all long term stayers to be in the VISA SYSTEM. This included TOURIST VISAS. When you leave Thailand and apply for a tourist visa, they have time to run your name through international police databases. I don't know if they do this or don't, but I remember quite clearly this was a big part of the message of why the restrictions happened. Nothing at all about what you are assuming was the reason. I am not foolish enough to think that I really know what the real reasons are, why trust an official announcement, but at least I admit I cannot know the unknowable.

And yes it would be a pity if they restricted tourist visas more. But what you are suggesting is kind of absurd. We are allowed to do this now, so we should restrict OURSELVES to avoid being restricted later? I know some people like to beat themselves with rubber hoses, but why? These imagined restrictions haven't happened yet. They may never.

Edited August 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[tartempion]

I live and work in Thailand, with a non-immigrant B visa and a work permit. It seems quite straightforward to me - tourist visas are for tourists.

Good for you, I'm pleased to read it, but what if you are American or European under 50 years of age and don't work, don't have any Thai dependants, don't want to study anything, don't want to invest ฿10 million, just want to stay in LOS, respect the law, respect the culture and live a quiet existence? What kind of visa should one get so as to respect Thai immigration law?

Did someone say "tourist visa"?

Simple answer: You can't (they don't want you here)

[Jingthing]

I live and work in Thailand, with a non-immigrant B visa and a work permit. It seems quite straightforward to me - tourist visas are for tourists.

Good for you, I'm pleased to read it, but what if you are American or European under 50 years of age and don't work, don't have any Thai dependants, don't want to study anything, don't want to invest ฿10 million, just want to stay in LOS, respect the law, respect the culture and live a quiet existence? What kind of visa should one get so as to respect Thai immigration law?

Did someone say "tourist visa"?

Simple answer: You can't (they don't want you here)

Simple rebuttal: Yes you can. Get tourist visas. As many entries as they will sell you. Visit consulates that are known for giving tourist visas no problem, including your home country. Avoid thorny embassies in countries like Cambodia. Get in country extensions. Use 30 day stamps as allowed. Repeat, repeat, repeat as long as you like (perhaps several years) or until they say no.

Who cares if "they" want you or not. The question is can you get your stamp. You are only as good or as wanted (or not wanted) as your latest stamp.

Now that we have established you can, only individuals can answer if they personally want to live under that kind of uncertainty. However, people on long term visas also have to answer that very same question.

Edited August 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[astor]

No thai law prohibits to stay long time as a tuorist. It's well to remember that there are many retired people (can't have 65k of pension) no have other chosen for stay in Thailand.

65000 baht of pension are not a little amount. You must have had a very good salary during the working activity ,for get 65000 baht for pension.

I'd like to know how many thai people can have a salary of 65K.

[simon43]

... For them, tourist visas, extensions, and 30 day stamps are exactly the proper visas for their situation

[\quote]

I agree. But those that fall into this category should not be surprised if they experience problems renewing their visa in the future when an immigration officer considers that they have broken the spirit of the law. Remember, in Thailand it is the individual immigration officer who interprets the law. Nothing is black and white

Simon

[Jingthing]

simon says ...

... For them, tourist visas, extensions, and 30 day stamps are exactly the proper visas for their situation

[\quote]

I agree. But those that fall into this category should not be surprised if they experience problems renewing their visa in the future when an immigration officer considers that they have broken the spirit of the law. Remember, in Thailand it is the individual immigration officer who interprets the law. Nothing is black and white

Simon

I agree with the point that you could be denied. Any type of visa application can be denied! I don't think this has anything to do with the spirit of the law, because there is no such spirit. Laws do not have "spirits"; perhaps all the spirit houses in Thailand have influenced many farangs to see spiriits when there are none. Show me one place in writing where it says you are prohibited or even discouraged from obtaining sequential tourist visas. Then, I will change my opinion on this. A tourist visa stands alone each time you apply. It is a riskier way to stay long term, but it is the only way to go for many people. I think it would be long odds to do that for 10 years, but fairly likely it could work for a few years if you keep flexible.

Edited August 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

No thai law prohibits to stay long time as a tuorist. It's well to remember that there are many retired people (can't have 65k of pension) no have other chosen for stay in Thailand.

65000 baht of pension are not a little amount. You must have had a very good salary during the working activity ,for get 65000 baht for pension.

I'd like to know how many thai people can have a salary of 65K.

If they qualify for retirement application that all have the option to use 800k in a Thai bank account or combine there available pension with enough in a Thai bank account to meet that 800k figure. They are not required to have 65k monthly pension.

[JimmyCA]

Firstly I say hello to all as this is my first post.

I am a 39 year old Brit living in Thailand for some 2 years now and last friday I went to Nong Khia immigration to extend my 90 day tourist visa after the usual 60 days.

When my turn came I took my seat and presented my paperwork. The official took a brief look and smiled at me smugly and told me he would only extend it for 7 days at the same cost (1,900baht) as the 30 day extension.

When I questioned this he just kept say "New law come last year"

I politely showed him my passport that he himself extended for 30 days in May this year.

"New law come last year" was all he would reply.

I had no choice but to pay as I was unprepared for an overnighter in Laos and when I asked should I just go to Laos every 2 months and not bother with the extension "Nothing sure" was his informative reply.

Once again I left Thai immagration feeling like some form of undesirable that should only be treated with contempt.

I would like to know if anyone else has had their so called 90 day tourist visa turned into a 67 day visa or was the gentleman, if you have been to AEK hospital, Udon or Nong Khia you know which one I mean, suffering PMT that day?

Pehaps if you had started with, "I am a 39 your old tourist, holidaying in Thailand for two years" instead of what you did, you might have received more sympthy.

If you are rich enough to retire at 39, you are rich enough get some sort of Visa.

Most people I hear whinging about it are working here illegally.

The OP has my total sympathy, speak for yourself!

There is NO legit visa option for an under 50 retiree in Thailand. I had to play exactly the same game until I turned 50, back when it was easier. The obvious thing would have been the investment visa, but that was abolished! What do you expect him to do, make up a visa classification that doesn't exist? Start a bogus business just for a visa? What exactly?

Why don't you get an 'O' multiple visa, I think this visa is still available. I had for many years when it was $40. Good for 90 days each trip. Now it is about $125 or so.

[Jingthing]

Often, you need one of the approved list of "reasons" to get an O visa. That would work if you can get it, but what reason would someone under 50 without relations to a Thai person who just wants to enjoy living in Thailand put on their O visa application?

[marginline]

Often, you need one of the approved list of "reasons" to get an O visa. That would work if you can get it, but what reason would someone under 50 without relations to a Thai person who just wants to enjoy living in Thailand put on their O visa application?

You are my hero Jingthing - a dozen posts now defending the right to continually use the good ol' tourist visa. FWIW I agree with every point you've made and just so long as I'm not breaking law and respect Thai immigration law, I'm gonna keep using the blessed things too until I'm 50...or have moved to Laos.

[astor]

No thai law prohibits to stay long time as a tuorist. It's well to remember that there are many retired people (can't have 65k of pension) no have other chosen for stay in Thailand.

65000 baht of pension are not a little amount. You must have had a very good salary during the working activity ,for get 65000 baht for pension.

I'd like to know how many thai people can have a salary of 65K.

If they qualify for retirement application that all have the option to use 800k in a Thai bank account or combine there available pension with enough in a Thai bank account to meet that 800k figure. They are not required to have 65k monthly pension.

And if you don't have 800 K? Also 800 K is not a few amount. How many thai people spend 800 K in one year, for living expenses?

There are many retired people that can't have 800k but have just about 30 /40 or 50 K a month. Just 30/ 40.000 baht a month you can living very well in Thailand.

[aznyron]

Firstly I say hello to all as this is my first post.

I am a 39 year old Brit living in Thailand for some 2 years now and last friday I went to Nong Khia immigration to extend my 90 day tourist visa after the usual 60 days.

When my turn came I took my seat and presented my paperwork. The official took a brief look and smiled at me smugly and told me he would only extend it for 7 days at the same cost (1,900baht) as the 30 day extension.

When I questioned this he just kept say "New law come last year"

I politely showed him my passport that he himself extended for 30 days in May this year.

"New law come last year" was all he would reply.

I had no choice but to pay as I was unprepared for an overnighter in Laos and when I asked should I just go to Laos every 2 months and not bother with the extension "Nothing sure" was his informative reply.

Once again I left Thai immagration feeling like some form of undesirable that should only be treated with contempt.

I would like to know if anyone else has had their so called 90 day tourist visa turned into a 67 day visa or was the gentleman, if you have been to AEK hospital, Udon or Nong Khia you know which one I mean, suffering PMT that day?

I know the Gentleman in question sadly he get his rocks off by screwing farlongs every day

I also had a bad exp. with him. just be prepared to do a border run the next time but go to the embassy and get a 60 day sadly you have to pay Lao for a entry in to there country

[skipper]

Lets put it this way - people extend tourist visa in large numbers every day and the only report of a 7 day extension is OP. Will there be a selective process to do so in other cases? Don't believe anyone can answer that. Are 30 day extensions no longer possible? Believe the fact we have only one report indicates that is not the case.

THIS YEAR in feb. my friends and I was to the Jomtien immigration for extensions.

I have a non-immigrant O multiple entry visa and naturally I did not get any extension at the immigration.

My friends had a 60 day visa and was told they could get only 7 days extension at the immigration.

So all of us vent to Cambodia crossed the border an came back in 1 hour, and they got 60 more days

and I 90 more days from Thai immigration office at the border.

That´s how it works

At the moment I´m applaying for a new non-immigration O multiple entry visa at the Thai Embassy in Helsinki Finland, but this time I have to

produce alot more paper veryfied by the notarius publicus in my home town.

So the rules is hardening evry day now, maybe time for Cambodia, Laos or Malaysia

[SmokeandIce]

The important point is that immigration officers' decisions often seem to be based on whether or not one's actions are contrary to the spirit of the purpose of the visa, and not based on the letter of the law. So I would certainly agree with Krub that by staying in Thailand on short-term, back-to-back tourist visa, you are breaking the spirit of the law and can possibly expect problems with future renewals.

That being said, the OP asked what visa he could use to remain in Thailand, since he is under 50, not working etc etc. The plain answer is that unless he is prepared to work, or to attend a university or to become a monk (all which would provide a suitable visa), then there is no suitable visa available and he should make plans to leave the country.

I was in exactly the same position as the OP a few months ago. But I realised that Thailand was not going to change the immigration rules for me, and that if I wished to remain in the country, then I had to change my own 'lifestyle'. I'm now a student at Chulalongkorn University (possibly the oldest student that they have....)

Simon

Maybe this should be on a separate thread, but I was actually thinking of studying in Thailand for both personal development along with the ability to get a visa. Simon, does Chulalongkorn require you to study for a specific degree or can you just take some independent classes? Also, I saw the tuition for farangs was THB 160,000 which is fairly steep....is this what you pay per semester? Thanks for any info.

[astor]

Lets put it this way - people extend tourist visa in large numbers every day and the only report of a 7 day extension is OP. Will there be a selective process to do so in other cases? Don't believe anyone can answer that. Are 30 day extensions no longer possible? Believe the fact we have only one report indicates that is not the case.

THIS YEAR in feb. my friends and I was to the Jomtien immigration for extensions.

I have a non-immigrant O multiple entry visa and naturally I did not get any extension at the immigration.

My friends had a 60 day visa and was told they could get only 7 days extension at the immigration.

So all of us vent to Cambodia crossed the border an came back in 1 hour, and they got 60 more days

and I 90 more days from Thai immigration office at the border.

That´s how it works

At the moment I´m applaying for a new non-immigration O multiple entry visa at the Thai Embassy in Helsinki Finland, but this time I have to

produce alot more paper veryfied by the notarius publicus in my home town.

So the rules is hardening evry day now, maybe time for Cambodia, Laos or Malaysia

This year in March a friend of mine went to the Jomtien immigration for extension of his t.v. He got 60 days of extension without no problem at all.

[UdonRoy]

Well folks I'm still here on my TV, issued in Laos with not some much as a blink of the eye.

I concede that maybe I just got unlucky the day I was only given a seven day extension, maybe it is not to be normal practise but I still feel it a worthy post on this visa forum.

I would just like to add that when I visit immigration I know exactly what to expect and I dress appropriately.

Come on people thats a no brainer!

Also I would like to give a little more of my backround, I have VERY significant other, we have an unofficially adopted daughter who I send to school and take care of on a daily basis, I am also an active member of our community.

Please tell me what I am doing wrong?

So many people, not only this forum, love to take a moral high ground when there is no ground to take!

[astor]

Lets put it this way - people extend tourist visa in large numbers every day and the only report of a 7 day extension is OP. Will there be a selective process to do so in other cases? Don't believe anyone can answer that. Are 30 day extensions no longer possible? Believe the fact we have only one report indicates that is not the case.

THIS YEAR in feb. my friends and I was to the Jomtien immigration for extensions.

I have a non-immigrant O multiple entry visa and naturally I did not get any extension at the immigration.

My friends had a 60 day visa and was told they could get only 7 days extension at the immigration.

So all of us vent to Cambodia crossed the border an came back in 1 hour, and they got 60 more days

and I 90 more days from Thai immigration office at the border.

That´s how it works

At the moment I´m applaying for a new non-immigration O multiple entry visa at the Thai Embassy in Helsinki Finland, but this time I have to

produce alot more paper veryfied by the notarius publicus in my home town.

So the rules is hardening evry day now, maybe time for Cambodia, Laos or Malaysia

This year in March a friend of mine went to the Jomtien immigration for extension of his t.v. He got 60 days of extension without no problem at all.

Sorry, I make a mistake , he got 30 days of extension not 60 days.

[Fun2Fun]

I would not be surprised if the next step would be a "regulation" on the number of back to back TV issued in countries other than your native country.

[Jingthing]

I would not be surprised if the next step would be a "regulation" on the number of back to back TV issued in countries other than your native country.

Interesting. Because I would be surprised. This loophole is left now and I believe it is INTENTIONALLY left.

[Maestro]

This year in March a friend of mine went to the Jomtien immigration for extension of his t.v. He got 60 days of extension without no problem at all.

Good for him. Usually the extension is no more than 30 days for a permission of stay based to a tourist visa. Of course, you may have got it wrong.

--

Maestro

[cali4995]

I would not be surprised if the next step would be a "regulation" on the number of back to back TV issued in countries other than your native country.

Interesting. Because I would be surprised. This loophole is left now and I believe it is INTENTIONALLY left.

Loop-hole: A technicality that allows a person or business to avoid the

scope of a law without directly violating the law.

Respectfully, It's not a loop-hole because there is no existing law which says

you cannot stay more than 30 days in Thailand, or have two consecutive

tourist visas. I think as we have seen already, If they didn't want visitors

to do this than we would have a new police order issued immediately.

Edited September 3, 2007 by cali4995

[IssanFarang]

I believe the OP made it clear the officer was known to him and many others over the years and well understood what he was doing. At least that was the impression I got.

My neighbor was at Nong Khai immigration on the same day as the OP, and related this very incident to me later (He plans to post to a local forum rather than here, so I'll step in).

He stated that the same officer, well known to all, was turning away every applicant for an extension in a similar manner, including my friend. While my friend was waiting with his Thai wife, the officer was throwing out comments in Thai about sex tourists and how the government wants them out. The wife leaned over and whispered to my friend, "He doesn't speak well of farang..."

Bad hair day...

[rutteketuut]

Firstly I say hello to all as this is my first post.

I am a 39 year old Brit living in Thailand for some 2 years now and last friday I went to Nong Khia immigration to extend my 90 day tourist visa after the usual 60 days.

When my turn came I took my seat and presented my paperwork. The official took a brief look and smiled at me smugly and told me he would only extend it for 7 days at the same cost (1,900baht) as the 30 day extension.

When I questioned this he just kept say "New law come last year"

I politely showed him my passport that he himself extended for 30 days in May this year.

"New law come last year" was all he would reply.

I had no choice but to pay as I was unprepared for an overnighter in Laos and when I asked should I just go to Laos every 2 months and not bother with the extension "Nothing sure" was his informative reply.

Once again I left Thai immagration feeling like some form of undesirable that should only be treated with contempt.

I would like to know if anyone else has had their so called 90 day tourist visa turned into a 67 day visa or was the gentleman, if you have been to AEK hospital, Udon or Nong Khia you know which one I mean, suffering PMT that day?

The normal procedure after the 60 days you should get a 30 days extension in a Thai immigration office and another 7 days.The fee is always 1900 bt no mather how many days they give you,but of course it depends on the officer.

[tropo]

So many people, not only this forum, love to take a moral high ground when there is no ground to take!

Actually, if you come on this forum with questions and offer limited information we present possibilities. The question of appearance and dress is an important one and needed to be asked.

Edited September 3, 2007 by tropo

[tropo]

Lets put it this way - people extend tourist visa in large numbers every day and the only report of a 7 day extension is OP. Will there be a selective process to do so in other cases? Don't believe anyone can answer that. Are 30 day extensions no longer possible? Believe the fact we have only one report indicates that is not the case.

THIS YEAR in feb. my friends and I was to the Jomtien immigration for extensions.

I have a non-immigrant O multiple entry visa and naturally I did not get any extension at the immigration.

My friends had a 60 day visa and was told they could get only 7 days extension at the immigration.

So all of us vent to Cambodia crossed the border an came back in 1 hour, and they got 60 more days

and I 90 more days from Thai immigration office at the border.

That´s how it works

At the moment I´m applaying for a new non-immigration O multiple entry visa at the Thai Embassy in Helsinki Finland, but this time I have to

produce alot more paper veryfied by the notarius publicus in my home town.

So the rules is hardening evry day now, maybe time for Cambodia, Laos or Malaysia

Did your friends make the application and pay the 1,900 first, or did they ask someone before presenting an application?

I was under the impression that if you make an application for a 30 day extension and present it, you will get stamped the appropriate number of days and your money is spent.