5 hours ago, RayC said:

There's the misuse/ redefinition of words again.

Anyone who doesn't believe in your vision of Britain is labelled a traitor.

No anyone who wishes to hand over power and sovereignty to a foreign power is a traitor.

Anyone who tries to overturn a democratic vote via back door deals and shenanigans is anti democratic.

Its quite simple Raymond. My words were accurate.

5 hours ago, RayC said:

Negotiating Brexit was placed in the hands of Teresa May who was elected by the Conservative Party. May herself may have been a reluctant Remainer but she quickly stated that, "Brexit means Brexit' in response to the suggestion that the UK might stay in the Single Market and Customs Union. That doesn't sound like a conflict of interest.

What was the practical alternative to retaining EU legislation in the aftermath of Brexit? The arch-Brexiters such as Jacob Rees-Moog had called for 'a bonfire of EU regulation' with some suggesting that there should be one law to repeal all EU legislation. Not only was this impractical - how would the inevitable gaps and legal inconsistencies be dealt with? - it would also have been counter-productive as there is good deal of legislation which originated in Brussels that is beneficial e.g. many environmental, food safety, animal welfare, consumer protection laws: If the UK had repealed EU legislation en masse opening the UK to toxic products is exactly what would have happened.

If a mass repeal of EU law wasn't to be undertaken then the alternative would be to examine each piece of EU-originated legislation on its own merits. That is a herculean task and would have required an army of civil servants. To all and extents and purposes, it is impractical.

We were assured by the likes of Michael Gove that the development of bi-lateral trading arrangements would be the norm post-Brexit. Partners would be falling over themselves to do deals with us and for our part, acting alone would allow us greater agility and flexibility in deal making compared to when we were a member of the EU. Sadly, none of that has come to pass for the simple reason that acting alone the UK does not have the bargaining clout of the EU and potential partners have bigger fish to fry.

The European Council - not the Commission - defines the general political direction and priorities of the European Union. The Commission develops draft legislation from this direction.

Imo the world would be a better place without the majority of unelected pressure groups and lobbyists, however, their presence is hardly unique to Brussels, and Brexit has done nothing to curb their numbers at Westminster.

The UK Civil Service is no more accessible to the general public than the European Commission. Nevertheless imo the Commission is too powerful and there should be a transfer of power to the European Parliament wherever possible.

The expanse and integration of Poland into the broader European market can hardly be labelled a " ... misuse of E.U. funds paid by British taxpayers ...". Anglo-Polish trade has increased fourfold since the latter's accession to the EU, benefitting both British businesses and consumers.

To suggest that the funding of East European manufacturing has led to the transfer and decline of U.K. manufacturing is frankly ridiculous. British manufacturing has been in decline in the '60s due to a combination of inferior products and uncompetitive working practices. It's effective demise was overseen by Thatcher's government which - rightly or wrongly - pulled the plug on matters and reinvented the UK economy as one based around services.

It is not correct to say that EU member states do not have the power of veto. Any treaty change requires unanimous support and the same is true of many financial transactions e.g. the loan to Ukraine. Unanimity is a double-edged sword. If used correctly, it helps ensure that the smaller members views do not go unheard; on the other hand, it also gives a disproportionate amount of power to 'rogue' states such as Orban's Hungary.

It is true that being a member of the EU involves a certain loss of sovereignty, but what does that amount to in reality? The UK was largely free to enact domestic policy when we were a member of the EU.

As a medium-sized economy, the UK has little influence globally and is largely dependent on the whim of the markets, much more so than when we were a big fish in the EU pond. Diplomatically - as recent events have shown - we are an irrelevance.

Perfect analysis and description of Brexit's consequences.

I'm afraid there are many Brits here on AN who won't read a long essay nor accept the truth.

In addition they would have to acknowledge the benefit of being a member of a powerful EU by looking across the Irish Sea. ROI is a outstanding example of development by negotiating as an EU country taking over UK.💗❗

On 5/18/2026 at 1:10 AM, JAG said:

The reason that the UK is in this domestic political mess, and has been since the Brexit Referendum, is quite simply that the political establishment has quite simply refused, and continues to refuse, to honour the decision of the electorate expressed in the Referendum and subsequent general elections.

That is why Farage/Reform UK have risen to the fore in UK politics, and that is why they are quite possibly going to end up in government in the relatively near future.

I am far from an uncritical admirer of Farage/Reform UK, and had reservations

at the time of the referendum (although I voted to leave). I still can see some benefits on closer co-operation with the EU; but the refusal to enact properly the decision of the referendum has destroyed public trust in our government and our political system. That has caused damage which can only be repaired by significant reform (note lower case).

The "Great Reform Act" of 1832 dramatically recast our political system, getting rid of Rotten Boroughs, widening the franchise and redistriuting constituencies more fairly. The franchise has continued to widen, until it has reached its current universal state. It introduced the effective two party system which survives (just) to this day; but a brief look at the seat distribution in Parliament, compared with vote percentages demonstrates the anomaly which now exists in our system. I can't see how that can be resolved under the present system.

Perhaps it is now time, nearly two hundred years later, to look at a second Reform Bill which again recast our electoral system - dare I say Proportional Representation to ensure proper representation in Parliament - and not just a system of counting, reviewing and counting the votes over and over again until the LibDems win the seat (mind you, they have gone very quiet on PR of late)!

The British Nationality Act of 1948 & 1981 is probably the biggest problem the UK (or Yookay as it's been renamed) has.

The term 'British' is becoming (has become?) meaningless but it seems a decision has already been made at the top (globalist) level to make whites a minority in Europe, Britain and anywhere else.
Higher IQ = More difficult to manage?

6 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Perfect analysis and description of Brexit's consequences.

I'm afraid there are many Brits here on AN who won't read a long essay nor accept the truth.

In addition they would have to acknowledge the benefit of being a member of a powerful EU by looking across the Irish Sea. ROI is a outstanding example of development by negotiating as an EU country taking over UK.💗❗

The EU Parliament is a rubber stamp parliament.
They can't even propose laws - only rubber stamp the Unelected EU Commission's laws.

It's the same as the Soviet model (hence EUssr).
The Soviets also claimed democracy as they had a parliament though
They could't even propose laws - only rubber stamp the Unelected Soviet Politbureau's laws.

With their love of Green nonsense (aside from their huge proposed Datacentre build outs), carbon credits etc. it's probably only a matter of time before people aren't allowed to physically leave the EU either

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

No anyone who wishes to hand over power and sovereignty to a foreign power is a traitor.

Anyone who tries to overturn a democratic vote via back door deals and shenanigans is anti democratic.

Its quite simple Raymond. My words were accurate.

Correction #1: As demonstrated by the foolhardy decision to leave the EU, ultimate power and sovereignty still rests with the UK parliament via the UK voting public. Burnham, Starmer or any other of your betes noires may be guilty of many things but they are not traitors.

Correction #2: So the Brexit vote should be considered as cast in stone ad infinitum? As I have explained time and time again, I think that the Brexit decision should stand for a generation (+/-18 years). However, that Brexit has caused harm to the UK is beyond doubt and it is encumbent on the government to try to manage and, where possible, reverse the damage. Hardly anti-democratic.

Yes it is quite simple, Jonathan. If only you could park your blinkered and bigoted views for a moment you might understand.

45 minutes ago, Tourist2 said:

The EU Parliament is a rubber stamp parliament.
They can't even propose laws - only rubber stamp the Unelected EU Commission's laws.

It's the same as the Soviet model (hence EUssr).
The Soviets also claimed democracy as they had a parliament though
They could't even propose laws - only rubber stamp the Unelected Soviet Politbureau's laws.

With their love of Green nonsense (aside from their huge proposed Datacentre build outs), carbon credits etc. it's probably only a matter of time before people aren't allowed to physically leave the EU either

And yet somehow the UK was permitted to leave the EU, little ol' Hungary was able to hold the Commission (and the rest of the EU) to ransom and the European Commissioners themselves are elected - and can be removed - by the EU member states.

So much for the all-powerful European Commission.

3 hours ago, Tourist2 said:

The EU Parliament is a rubber stamp parliament.
They can't even propose laws - only rubber stamp the Unelected EU Commission's laws.

It's the same as the Soviet model (hence EUssr).
The Soviets also claimed democracy as they had a parliament though
They could't even propose laws - only rubber stamp the Unelected Soviet Politbureau's laws.

With their love of Green nonsense (aside from their huge proposed Datacentre build outs), carbon credits etc. it's probably only a matter of time before people aren't allowed to physically leave the EU either

You've just shown you don't have any understanding about how it works. 😃

https://european-union.europa.eu/institutions-law-budget/law/how-eu-policy-decided_en

3 hours ago, RayC said:

Correction #1: As demonstrated by the foolhardy decision to leave the EU, ultimate power and sovereignty still rests with the UK parliament via the UK voting public. Burnham, Starmer or any other of your betes noires may be guilty of many things but they are not traitors.

Correction #2: So the Brexit vote should be considered as cast in stone ad infinitum? As I have explained time and time again, I think that the Brexit decision should stand for a generation (+/-18 years). However, that Brexit has caused harm to the UK is beyond doubt and it is encumbent on the government to try to manage and, where possible, reverse the damage. Hardly anti-democratic.

Yes it is quite simple, Jonathan. If only you could park your blinkered and bigoted views for a moment you might understand.

It's quite simple, and sadly you are the one that doesn't understand,

The Brits voted for Brexit to stop uneducated foreigners from flooding the country, and foreign powers from ruling the country.

The governments (Con and Lab) decided to oppose the will of the people and deliberately do everything but that.

What will happen in the future is likely a civil war killing all non-whites in the country legal or illegal.

And survivors being put to death, along with many of their supporters.

It's inevitable if the rulers ignore the will of the people, eventually there will be 'rivers of blood'.

Same happened in Germany in the early 1930s, they were warned to leave, they didn't believe the warnings, they died. Ignore history, and you will just see it repeated!

Hopefully, I won't live to see this forseeable disaster happen.

And my kids will be safely out of it in Thailand.

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It's quite simple, and sadly you are the one that doesn't understand,

The Brits voted for Brexit to stop uneducated foreigners from flooding the country, and foreign powers from ruling the country.

The governments (Con and Lab) decided to oppose the will of the people and deliberately do everything but that.

What will happen in the future is likely a civil war killing all non-whites in the country legal or illegal.

And survivors being put to death, along with many of their supporters.

It's inevitable if the rulers ignore the will of the people, eventually there will be 'rivers of blood'.

Same happened in Germany in the early 1930s, they were warned to leave, they didn't believe the warnings, they died. Ignore history, and you will just see it repeated!

Hopefully, I won't live to see this forseeable disaster happen.

And my kids will be safely out of it in Thailand.

Rightio. If you say so ....

Meanwhile, in today's news on Planet Earth, the 5p cut on fuel duty in the UK will be extended to the end of the year ....

On 5/18/2026 at 5:22 AM, Leopold Bloom said:

Living outside the UK, my only knowledge of what passes for "politics" over there comes from PMQ's.

Granted, Prime Minister's Questions are a circus show, but it does at least give some opportunity to form an opinion about whoever is currently running the show (or aspiring to run it).

I have been impressed by only one politician in the last six months or so: Kemi Badenoch.

She seems to have all her marbles together and also seems to actually believe what she is talking about. (However, the recent experience of the Conservatives in voting themselves a woman to be their leader does not inspire confidence.)

(Oh, and she's definitely nicer than Thatcher.)

Kemi's real accent.

7 hours ago, RayC said:

Rightio. If you say so ....

Meanwhile, in today's news on Planet Earth, the 5p cut on fuel duty in the UK will be extended to the end of the year ....

Tell me,

Why does Labour (government for the people) charge an extra 40 pence a litre during the fuel crises (up from 1.50 to 1.90 pounds)

When Thailand only charge 6bht/litre (up from 32bht to 38bht)

17 hours ago, RayC said:

Correction #1: As demonstrated by the foolhardy decision to leave the EU, ultimate power and sovereignty still rests with the UK parliament via the UK voting public. Burnham, Starmer or any other of your betes noires may be guilty of many things but they are not traitors.

Correction #2: So the Brexit vote should be considered as cast in stone ad infinitum? As I have explained time and time again, I think that the Brexit decision should stand for a generation (+/-18 years). However, that Brexit has caused harm to the UK is beyond doubt and it is encumbent on the government to try to manage and, where possible, reverse the damage. Hardly anti-democratic.

Yes it is quite simple, Jonathan. If only you could park your blinkered and bigoted views for a moment you might understand.

But you wanted to reverse the vote before it was enacted.

So did many lefties calling for a "peoples vote". They didnt want to wait a generation they wanted to ignore the vote of the British electorate and leave us in the EU beholden to Brussels unelected technocrats.

Anto democratic traitors.

On 5/18/2026 at 8:57 PM, DonniePeverley said:

Why not? Be at the heart of the EU and inact reforms. Use the power of defence (the UK along with France is the only nuclear power in Europe) to get favourable terms.

Until someone tells me ONE ACTION that has taken place since we left the EU that has been a benefit for them in our lives? The pound has been a disaster for us all travelling to Thailand.

For me personally i have seen companies in the UK really struggle with barriers put up with the customs union to now import into Europe. It's a disgrace.

The UK alone is also at the mercy of major powers like America really hurting them, now they have no group to act together. Had trump hit the UK with harsh tarriffs we could have done nothing. Trump has made similar threats to Spain and France, but is powerless as he would have to put them on the whole EU not individual countries.

To reform the E.U. you needed the unanimous agreement of 27 nations. Now, possibly, slightly less. Thanks to the Commission's desire to negate Hungary's veto on funding the proxy war in the Ukraine.

Using the U.K.'s nuclear weapons as a bargaining counter to gain favourable terms for re-entry to the E.U. supposes that E.U. negotiators are ignorant of the fact that our nuclear weapons are American and their use subject to U.S. approval. Not a problem in the past, supposedly. But now?

I am in favour of bilateral agreements that are mutually beneficial, whether with individual countries or with groups of nations that facilitate trade. But trade agreements have to be sought and negotiated. They do not simply fall out of the sky into one's lap.

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

But you wanted to reverse the vote before it was enacted.

So did many lefties calling for a "peoples vote". They didnt want to wait a generation they wanted to ignore the vote of the British electorate and leave us in the EU beholden to Brussels unelected technocrats.

Anto democratic traitors.

But nothing.

I was NEVER - and am NOT - a supporter of the call for a 'Peoples Vote'.

Which bit of, "As I have explained time and time again, I think that the Brexit decision should stand for a generation (+/-18 years)", don't you understand?

Alex Salmond coined the phrase, 'once in a generation' in relation to the Scottish independence referendum, and I thought it equally applicable to the Brexit referendum.

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Tell me,

Why does Labour (government for the people) charge an extra 40 pence a litre during the fuel crises (up from 1.50 to 1.90 pounds)

When Thailand only charge 6bht/litre (up from 32bht to 38bht)

Different Governments in different countries, and of different political persuasion, raise taxes to differing degrees and use different measures to do so. It is a similar story for government expenditure (subsidies).

I don't know why the UK government

seemingly chooses to subsidise fuel increases less than the Thai government.

I also don't know what that has to do with this topic, which is about the Labour Party's leadership contenders' stance on Brexit.

25 minutes ago, RayC said:

But nothing.

I was NEVER - and am NOT - a supporter of the call for a 'Peoples Vote'.

Which bit of, "As I have explained time and time again, I think that the Brexit decision should stand for a generation (+/-18 years)", don't you understand?

Alex Salmond coined the phrase, 'once in a generation' in relation to the Scottish independence referendum, and I thought it equally applicable to the Brexit referendum.

You DID support a peoples vote but luckily for you the forum does not store posts as far back as 2016 so you are able to deny it.

You really think the EU are going to accept us potentially coming and going every 18 years?

Or are you, as I suspect, only hoping for it to be rerun until you get the result you want? Then we rejoin and no more votes. 😃

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

You DID support a peoples vote but luckily for you the forum does not store posts as far back as 2016 so you are able to deny it.

You really think the EU are going to accept us potentially coming and going every 18 years?

Or are you, as I suspect, only hoping for it to be rerun until you get the result you want? Then we rejoin and no more votes. 😃

YOU ARE A LIAR!

You cannot produce proof of my support for a 'Peoples Vote' because it doesn't exist.

Just now, RayC said:

YOU ARE A LIAR!

You cannot produce proof of my support for a 'Peoples Vote' because it doesn't exist.

Chill Raymond. No good for your blood pressure.

I cannot prove it because the forum does not keep posts that far back.

But you and I both know the truth. That's the main thing.

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You really think the EU are going to accept us potentially coming and going every 18 years?

Or are you, as I suspect, only hoping for it to be rerun until you get the result you want? Then we rejoin and no more votes. 😃

Suspect what you want. As usual, you are wrong.

No, I don't think that the EU are going to accept us potentially coming and going every 18 years and they won't need to. The tide is turning. People are increasing realising that they were sold a pup and Brexit cannot - and never will - deliver on its' promises. By 2034, support for rejoining the EU will far outweigh the number of 'Little Englanders' such as yourself who view the EU as intrinsically evil.

And no, there will be no need for any referendum held in mid-30s to be rerun. The mandate to rejoin will be conclusive and support for membership will remain at a high level.

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Chill Raymond. No good for your blood pressure.

I cannot prove it because the forum does not keep posts that far back.

But you and I both know the truth. That's the main thing.

I have been a member since 2019 so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a post of mine calling for a second referendum/ 'People's Vote' if it exists.

Yes, we both know the truth, Jonathan. Part of your lying persona is the veneer of championing free speech and libertarianism behind which lurks an authoritarian, who would like nothing more than to silence those with whom you disagree.

The truth hurts, John Boy, but sometimes it can't be avoided.

23 hours ago, RayC said:

And yet somehow the UK was permitted to leave the EU, little ol' Hungary was able to hold the Commission (and the rest of the EU) to ransom and the European Commissioners themselves are elected - and can be removed - by the EU member states.

So much for the all-powerful European Commission.

The UK was permitted to leave only because the UK had a referendum on membership (it hadn't fully signed up, and had wisely maintained its own currency (the £)) but has had to pay 10 years of punitive exit fees - facilitated by traitors who should have told them to stick it.

As per my previous post, the EU gives the illusion of democracy but modelled after the Soviet system:
ONLY the unelected commission can propose laws.
The parliament gets to rubber stamop them.

The EU have zero collateral (Gold, Oil, Gas) and is a zero growth mess - they've even managed to make Germany go backwards through de-insudtrialisation - EU is more screwed and with even more migrant problems than the Yookay - even with it;s trecherous globalist sell out politicians

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Tell me,

Why does Labour (government for the people) charge an extra 40 pence a litre during the fuel crises (up from 1.50 to 1.90 pounds)

When Thailand only charge 6bht/litre (up from 32bht to 38bht)

Once you understand they work for control freak globalists and hate the white natives (too high IQ to easily fool/control) it all makes sense. TLDR: They hate us

14 minutes ago, RayC said:

I have been a member since 2019 so it shouldn't be too difficult to find a post of mine calling for a second referendum/ 'People's Vote' if it exists.

Yes, we both know the truth, Jonathan. Part of your lying persona is the veneer of championing free speech and libertarianism behind which lurks an authoritarian, who would like nothing more than to silence those with whom you disagree.

The truth hurts, John Boy, but sometimes it can't be avoided.

Au contraire Raymondo. I champion free speech and Democracy for all sides of the political spectrum.

Unlike you who tries to demonize and insult those who you disagree with by using all the usual tired old slurs.

You"re perfectly free to spout your anti British, Pro EU propaganda as far as I am concerned but I will continue to call it out for what it is.

If that upsets you. Sorry not sorry. 😄

39 minutes ago, RayC said:

And no, there will be no need for any referendum held in mid-30s to be rerun. The mandate to rejoin will be conclusive and support for membership will remain at a high level

Just as I thought. Anti democratic. No need for a referendum by your reckoning. Just overturn it.

Reform will likely be in power within 2 years so good luck getting that mandate you pretend to value.

Its over Raymond. We're never going back. Get used to Democracy in action.

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It's quite simple, and sadly you are the one that doesn't understand,

The Brits voted for Brexit to stop uneducated foreigners from flooding the country, and foreign powers from ruling the country.

The governments (Con and Lab) decided to oppose the will of the people and deliberately do everything but that.

What will happen in the future is likely a civil war killing all non-whites in the country legal or illegal.

And survivors being put to death, along with many of their supporters.

It's inevitable if the rulers ignore the will of the people, eventually there will be 'rivers of blood'.

Same happened in Germany in the early 1930s, they were warned to leave, they didn't believe the warnings, they died. Ignore history, and you will just see it repeated!

Hopefully, I won't live to see this forseeable disaster happen.

And my kids will be safely out of it in Thailand.

A certain group facilitating migration ALWAYS push it too far but younger generations with access to non MSM media are noticing and it seems to be open season - even on mainstream platforms (youtube etc - heard Dan Bilzeran lately???).

Agree that Yookay will likely end up in a civil war - Northern Ireland style.

Seems the establishment are actively encouraging it with the blatant 2 tier police and justice system.
Eg. this week Henry Nowak (white w. Polish background), 18, was stabbed to death in a random attack by a Sikh man in the UK. When police arrived at the scene, they handcuffed Henry instead of helping him after the attacker lied to officers, claiming that Henry was just a drunk racist.).

The rush to build out data centres and recent announcement of Digital IDs implies they're rushing to a CBDC control system but in order to push that through they need a 'crisis' to get normies to demand "Something must be done!" (likely the much tighter controls on everything the top top top money people want - a control grid enforced by control of your spending tokens).

Crazy interesting times.

21 hours ago, candide said:

You've just shown you don't have any understanding about how it works. 😃

https://european-union.europa.eu/institutions-law-budget/law/how-eu-policy-decided_en

Nah. Go deeper.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html

https://x.com/scientificecon/status/2056298737476014553
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/

2 hours ago, RayC said:

Different Governments in different countries, and of different political persuasion, raise taxes to differing degrees and use different measures to do so. It is a similar story for government expenditure (subsidies).

I don't know why the UK government

seemingly chooses to subsidise fuel increases less than the Thai government.

I also don't know what that has to do with this topic, which is about the Labour Party's leadership contenders' stance on Brexit.

You brought it up, I was just replying to your post.

2 hours ago, Tourist2 said:

Nah. Go deeper.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html

https://x.com/scientificecon/status/2056298737476014553
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/

On top of being lame propaganda, It's irrelevant to the point I made. 😃

5 hours ago, RayC said:

Suspect what you want. As usual, you are wrong.

No, I don't think that the EU are going to accept us potentially coming and going every 18 years and they won't need to. The tide is turning. People are increasing realising that they were sold a pup and Brexit cannot - and never will - deliver on its' promises. By 2034, support for rejoining the EU will far outweigh the number of 'Little Englanders' such as yourself who view the EU as intrinsically evil.

And no, there will be no need for any referendum held in mid-30s to be rerun. The mandate to rejoin will be conclusive and support for membership will remain at a high level.

I think if the EU offers the UK a rejoin option they will mandate adopting EU currency from day 1

if that happens the rejoin numbers will diminished in the same way that during the 2014 Scottish independence vote the pro independence was leading until questions about

Currency Uncertainty: The primary driver for the late swing was ambiguity over what currency an independent Scotland would use. The pro-independence Yes campaign’s plan to retain the pound sterling was rejected by the UK government, raising fears about monetary stability and financial security.

This is one example of how Conservative Governments NEVER ATTEMPTED to fulfil one of the major reasons people voted for Brexit :

Does the U.K. have an undemocratic Uni-Party?