6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Correct, but again, the 800k / 65k can not remain these amounts forever.

I have already posted the Australian aged pension is under 65k per month. I'm sure the aged pensions of many other countries are also under 65k a month.

So, raise the 800k to 1.2 million and the 65k to 100k and seriously ban agents, even for just 18 months, and now Thailand has clear out expats who live here on meager income and / or have no savings, and this MAY be done on purpose as part of a broad plan to do so.

If not for savings, then first couple years here, I could not stay, as had no income. Just did the lump sum in bank when married. Soc Sec was finally approved, but only good enough for marriage extensions, which I wasn't most of the time here till 2014. Only married for the first year 2000 to 2001.

Only kept the bare minimum in bank here, and didn't bring anything over from USA till about 2012. Soc Sec only surpassed the retirement monthly income requirement about 5 yrs ago.

With the monthly income met, I don't keep anything in my name here. More convenience for the wife & daughter, when I crap out, they already have and no hassle or tax, with probate. At worse, there would be 300k in bank, as not much more is ever in there, or I'd have to file a FBAR.

Hard to believe, people at retirement age can't meet the minimum, lump or income to stay here. Seriously have to rethink living overseas on such low funds. Especially if not qualifying for their healthcare and not having private insurance.

Surely after 40-45 yrs working, you'd have some equity in your house, if sold, or rent out, for lump sum or supplement income requirements with pension.

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Vietnam is on many top lists as well.

No retirement visa.

Visa runs every 90 days.

A tm30 tyoe sysren much wirse Thailand

Don't trust those lists.

You can't trust anywhere that does not offer PR or citizenship, that's because you will never have a right to live there. On that basis, one should basically live in the country like a tourist on a long holiday. This way, at any time in the future the government of the host country changes the goal posts which you either can not meet or do not like, you simply change locations to your Plan B with minimal financial loss.

22 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You can't trust anywhere that does not offer PR or citizenship,

Thailand does offer PR and citizenship. You need a job and to pay tax. Takes about 6 years to get citizenship. Done on a country quota system.

14 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If not for savings, then first couple years here, I could not stay, as had no income. Just did the lump sum in bank when married. Soc Sec was finally approved, but only good enough for marriage extensions, which I wasn't most of the time here till 2014. Only married for the first year 2000 to 2001.

Only kept the bare minimum in bank here, and didn't bring anything over from USA till about 2012. Soc Sec only surpassed the retirement monthly income requirement about 5 yrs ago.

With the monthly income met, I don't keep anything in my name here. More convenience for the wife & daughter, when I crap out, they already have and no hassle or tax, with probate. At worse, there would be 300k in bank, as not much more is ever in there, or I'd have to file a FBAR.

Hard to believe, people at retirement age can't meet the minimum, lump or income to stay here. Seriously have to rethink living overseas on such low funds. Especially if not qualifying for their healthcare and not having private insurance.

Surely after 40-45 yrs working, you'd have some equity in your house, if sold, or rent out, for lump sum or supplement income requirements with pension.

Thanks for sharing.

This part of you post is interesting.

"Hard to believe, people at retirement age can't meet the minimum, lump or income to stay here. Seriously have to rethink living overseas on such low funds. Especially if not qualifying for their healthcare and not having private insurance.

Surely after 40-45 yrs working, you'd have some equity in your house, if sold, or rent out, for lump sum or supplement income requirements with pension."

Would you be surprised if I told you there are some expat retirees here who have never worked a day in their life. They have lived off welfare all their life, and if they did some work, it was cash, so contributed nothing.

I would suggest it's this demographic that Thailand does not want, nor need, and I have no sympathy if they are cleared out.

Just now, VocalNeal said:

Thailand does offer PR and citizenship. You need a job and to pay tax. Takes about 6 years to get citizenship. Done on a country quota system.

You are correct, but I would not consider it to be a fair and reasonable pathway, thus, practically non existent.

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Thanks for sharing.

This part of you post is interesting.

"Hard to believe, people at retirement age can't meet the minimum, lump or income to stay here. Seriously have to rethink living overseas on such low funds. Especially if not qualifying for their healthcare and not having private insurance.

Surely after 40-45 yrs working, you'd have some equity in your house, if sold, or rent out, for lump sum or supplement income requirements with pension."

Would you be surprised if I told you there are some expat retirees here who have never worked a day in their life. They have lived off welfare all their life, and if they did some work, it was cash, so contributed nothing.

I would suggest it's this demographic that Thailand does not want, nor need, and I have no sympathy if they are cleared out.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Being a slum lord, I think I've seen every benefit scam one could image. Know a few folks personally, that were deemed disabled, but were not. One worked full time as roofer, and yea, cash pay.

14 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Understand sh!t happens, and if so, you don't go to a foreign country to retire, unless that is your only choice. Can't see TH being that, and if in dire strates to begin with, how the hell did you ever discover TH. International holidays were only in my budget, since I worked for airlines, and damn near free flights.

I was poor, so escaped 2 divorces before 34 yrs old. No assets really to lose. Besides, wife #2 had way more income than myself.

Plus for me was, NO KIDS, so I could be irresponsible and silly up to, and after retirement. Wee one here, really slowed me down, and I understood only then, hmm, I may have to be responsible & start to act my age. Playing single parent does that.

Hat's off to the ones that did that, balanced a job, kid, and took care of household. Especially if the kid turned out productive. Easy for me, had all the time & money needed.

C'mon, you're leaving out the best part. You know, the bogus disability benefits till SS kicked in.

13 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

C'mon, you're leaving out the best part. You know, the bogus disability benefits till SS kicked in.

No bogus benefits till SS kicks in. Disability is part of SS, then it simply auto changes, to 'retirement' disability at 66 or 67, depending when born.

Soc Soc deemed me disabled (full, not SSI), but that took over 2 yrs. Was examined by their doc, much to the dismay of my lawyer. So much for his faith that I wasn't a scammer. Just because you're not in a wheel chair, doesn't mean you can be employed.

Do admit, employable, and able to generate income is 2 completely different things. I generated more income after being disabled, than all my salaried jobs. Why I liked being self employed, pay is much better.

38 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You are correct, but I would not consider it to be a fair and reasonable pathway, thus, practically non existent.

What country have you emigrated to before? They are mostly all the same.

Although what we call PR here; maybe what you have to qualify for before you are even granted entry. Live and work for 3 years of PR before application for citizenship. (4 years for Aus.)

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

No I don't agree.

I got posted here for my work (multinational) nearly 35 years ago.

I was approved for Thai PR 29 years ago.

I retired, got a payout from the Thai Social Security Fund and chose to transfer to the 'self funded' scheme for health Insurance, I've experienced good service, Social Security Health fund no charge annual health check up coming soon.

My Thai son has gained a bachelor degree plus further achievements from a good Thai uni.

I don't see any reason to fault Thailand.

Why the thumbs down?

53 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

What country have you emigrated to before? They are mostly all the same.

Although what we call PR here; maybe what you have to qualify for before you are even granted entry. Live and work for 3 years of PR before application for citizenship. (4 years for Aus.)

Australia has millions of people with PR or citizenship. They don't hand out either of them like candy, but they are entirely possible to get, not so in Thailand. Very difficult and very rare indeed. There is no comparison.

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Australia has millions of people with PR or citizenship. They don't hand out either of them like candy, but they are entirely possible to get, not so in Thailand. Very difficult and very rare indeed. There is no comparison.

People mostly move to Australia to build a life at a young age and work.

It's not a retirement destination and should not be compared to Thailand.

People who do come to Thailand at a young age and work appear to have similar benefits.

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

not so in Thailand. Very difficult and very rare indeed. There is no comparison.

I know guys with PR and a few with Thai passports. Maybe rare but not very difficult for people who work here if they wish to do it.

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Hard to believe, people at retirement age can't meet the minimum, lump or income to stay here

Some guys get wiped out in a Divorce (1 of my mates gave his Ex-Wife everything, he ended up couch surfing with other mates) & I recall 1 cautionary tale of a guy who retired & put every penny into Lloyds Bank Shares at >£5 in 2007 as they were paying a 7.5% dividend and watched his retirement funds crater & his dividend income dry up.

Point being people can work hard but unforeseen circumstances can wipe out the savings they had

There but for the grace of God go I.

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I know guys with PR and a few with Thai passports. Maybe rare but not very difficult for people who work here if they wish to do it.

How many expat retirees work here? Is that not the demographic we are discussing?

I was responding to PR and citizenship. You have to pay tax on income for between 3 and 6 years to apply for citizenship.

If retirees don't pay tax on minimum 50,000 baht/month then forget it. Thailand doesn't put citizenship at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.

Perhaps you have some facts on countries that issue citizenship to retirees without restrictions.

Edited August 2Aug 2 by VocalNeal

18 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

People mostly move to Australia to build a life at a young age and work.

It's not a retirement destination and should not be compared to Thailand.

People who do come to Thailand at a young age and work appear to have similar benefits.

I never suggested Australia was a well known retirement destination and should be compared to Thailand.

Many of the younger ones end up bringing out their older relatives, but that's getting off topic.

Here's the criteria for Thai citizenship.

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thai-citizenship-application-process/

As I replied to another member, aren't we discussing expat retirees?

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

How many expat retirees work here? Is that not the demographic we are discussing?

If they are buying a house with a company, apparently not. But we've been off topic probably since page 1 😂

3 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I was responding to PR and citizenship. You have to pay tax on income for between 3 and 6 years to apply for citizenship.

If retirees don't pay tax then forget it. Thailand doesn't put citizenship at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.

I've just posted the criteria.

So, you agree, the expat retirees here who have lived in Thailand for 20 years, married a Thai national, raised two kids, bought two houses, bought a car, has his life savings in a Thai bank etc etc can not become a Thai citizen. Is this not the point being made?

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

If they are buying a house with a company, apparently not. But we've been off topic probably since page 1 😂

The point the OP made, pages ago, and I agree with, is without offering PR / Citizenship to expat retirees, we are all nothing but 1 year tourists, thus have zero rights here, and with zero rights, why would one "invest" in Thailand?

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

why would one "invest" in Thailand?

A topic for another discussion?

I do know some guys who dabble in the Thai stock market but most keep their money overseas.

I don't consider buying a house in Thailand to be an investment. It is simple a cost of living here.

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

who have lived in Thailand for 20 years,

Someone who retired here 20 years ago would now be what 75. What benefit to the country would giving a 75 year-old citizenship be?

Now if you lived here 15 - 20 years ago and had a job here then you would have qualified for citizenship at the time. But apparently you did not at the time? Too late now.

Edited August 2Aug 2 by VocalNeal

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I don't consider buying a house in Thailand to be an investment. It is simple a cost of living here.

I don't even see it as a cost of living. I see it as a waste of money. 😂

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Why the thumbs down?

Because you have dared to disagree with the OP!

We all must obey and agree with its posts or we get a thumbs down from it from whichever planet it is on today!

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The point the OP made, pages ago, and I agree with, is without offering PR / Citizenship to expat retirees, we are all nothing but 1 year tourists, thus have zero rights here, and with zero rights, why would one "invest" in Thailand?

We do have rights, that's what laws & courts are for. I'll wait till I here a story, where house, land or condo have been take off a foreigner or his wife, or even nominee purchase (business), if a true business, when they were legal.

I actually had to go back to OP, to see who and what posted 🙄

OK, I went thru every point of the vid, all doom & gloom, fear mongering, what if scenarios. Considering the OP, expect at least one thread a month, warning all not to invest in TH or have a plan B.

And yet, he is all bought in, with no real plan B, as keeps asking for one.

Choices, we all have them, simply live with them. I would give the same advice I've given to everyone. Do your research. Only you can decide, but don't take pro or con advice from the internet. Take it from someone you personally know, has experience, and you trust.

I suggested to friend, who turned me on to TH, (bastard) my age, not to buy in. At least not for 2 years, as he may live a long time. After his father passes, 90+ already, he'll probably be coming to SEA. So far it's PI or TH, with Pattaya, very familiar with, or Hua Hin, he likes also, as choices so far. Leaning toward Hua Hin since last visits to both, if TH over PI.

It's a fair question to ask what does a country that offers much more access to permanent residence or even citizenship get out of the deal?

I can think of some things though from the expats POV it's a great benefit that Thailand does not offer.

Thailand's government in all their "wisdom" has decided to be niggardly with this.

They are clearly within their rights to do that though of course people coming in do need to be fully aware of the situation.

Maybe some others can help with why many countries are much more liberal with this?

Being civilized to the expats isn't an economic benefit but perhaps it's a good public relations / soft power benefit.

Countries that want to attract more expats who are smart enough to shop for easy PR paths will certainly attract more expats assuming they have other good things to offer.

A total s-hole of a country would have trouble paying people to move there.

Investment?

A country with easier PR offers would tend to attract more foreign investment if that's what they want.

For example a country that allows foreigners to buy land or at least houses to live in is a country that is going to have more foreign buyers for that (if that's what they want).

A country might think it's an advantage to have better integrated expats.

Expats with PR or citizenship would tend to commit more to a country when the country has committed more to them. Such as more likely to learn the language. etc. Some countries require that for increased residency status.

I'm out of ideas but it's fair to assume that because so many countries are offering PR much more easily than Thailand, they do see at least some kind of self interest benefit for doing so, or presumably they wouldn't do it,

Again, I understand, Thailand is Thailand. Thailand is for the Thais.

This won't change here for the better, and indeed is more likely to change for the worse.

Cheers.

31 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The point the OP made, pages ago, and I agree with, is without offering PR / Citizenship to expat retirees, we are all nothing but 1 year tourists, thus have zero rights here, and with zero rights, why would one "invest" in Thailand?

No, you're exaggerating.

Yearly visas get renewed for decades.

You have condo ownership rights.

For land/property, you need a wife you can trust.

But it's not "no rights" and "you're a tourist".

Many manage to stay decades and make it work as though they had residency.

20 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Someone who retired here 20 years ago would now be what 75. What benefit to the country would giving a 75 year-old citizenship be?

Good question, but the point is, if they could get PR / citizenship at 55, given they moved here at 50, when they reached retirement visa age, and they don't work, because they were wealthy and didn't have to, or maybe worked in a mine or were a rig pig (yes - I know you should not be working on a retirement visa) and they have had 5 years of living in Thailand with no criminal history, perhaps these people would have bought a property back then, thus injecting a lot of money into the Thai economy and housing market, same with a car, and so on. The reason being, they have stability, and no longer at at the whim of Thailand's visa policies and flip flops.

As the OP points out, it's all one way traffic for retired expats in Thailand. Expat retiree money in, and the Thai government gives nothing back in return.

Thus, why would a new retiree buy any big ticket items now? Many are wising up.

24 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Now if you lived here 15 - 20 years ago and had a job here then you would have qualified for citizenship at the time.

Having a job in Thailand for the sake of citizenship would have been a waste of my time, and money, 20 years ago.

For some reason, you are focusing on the minority. That's not what this thread is about.

What I'm saying is that there is an avenue for citizenship for people who are willing to pay taxes here.

Too old to work ? Well it's too late

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

What I'm saying is that there is an avenue for citizenship for people who are willing to pay taxes here.

Too old to work ? Well it's too late

I thought I read somewhere that 30million baht would do it.

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

No, you're exaggerating.

Yearly visas get renewed for decades.

You have condo ownership rights.

For land/property, you need a wife you can trust.

But it's not "no rights" and "you're a tourist".

Many manage to stay decades and make it work as though they had residency.

No, I am not exaggerating.

Name one thing someone on a retirement visa / extension can do, that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp can't do, other than have 3 extra years on a driving / ring license. This has been debated before, and that was the conclusion.

Yes, extensions for years, but it's still a visa, which does not give the "right" to reside in Thailand. You are still just a guest, and and at the whim of visa policies.

At 51% to 41% condo ownership, you are outvoted every time, not to mention ownership of the land the block sits on could be questionable, but that's for another thread.

How many guys have come undone here trusting their Thai missus?

Yes, many stay for decades, no argument from me about this, but they still do not have the right to reside in Thailand.

There is a difference between having the right to reside and having a visa to stay.