6 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Why should "the courts" have more power than a President?

And what makes "the courts" infallible and all-knowing that they can do no wrong?

The courts do not have more power than the President - they have different powers.

Neither are they infallible. However, based on the US Constitution:

"Jurisdiction to interpret laws and determine constitutionality belongs to the judicial branch under Article III."

https://www.jurist.org/news/2025/02/trump-signs-order-declaring-only-president-and-ag-can-interpret-us-law-for-executive-branch/

As that article goes on to point out:

The framers of the Constitution designed the separation of duties to prevent any single branch of government from becoming too powerful.

7 hours ago, koolkarl said:

I am not a fan of Trump but agree with this item. In Vancouver, Chinese baby houses have existed for ages where the Chinese women

go to give birth on a tourist visa. Automatic citizenship for the kid, then parents, brothers , sisters, grandparents, etc. Canada is fast asleep and being abused left and right.

This is very true in the US as well. There are over 10 million Chinese/American citizens who have only spent a few days in the United States. There very much is citizen birth tourism, much of it taking place in the Northern Mariana Islands where there is a visa waiver in effect for Chinese citizens. By Chinese law these people are required to act as spies if requested by the Chinese government.

6 hours ago, JerryM said:

NB China citizens do not qualify for visa waiver program -- they must apply for a tourist visa at a US embassy or consulate.

The Visa waiver program (for 42 countries) is for 90 day maximum stay so to time a pregnancy and still allowed entry to US (i.e. not showing pregnancy) is pretty tight

That is not completely true. There is a visa waiver program in the Norther Mariana Islands which is a territory of the United States.

16 hours ago, Tug said:

More meat for his dwindling base in my view + it ain’t gonna pass but it does keep people talking about him.what an absolutely ugly specimen of a man.

So, putting Trump aside for a moment do you believe the current system should simply continue unchanged?

For example, suppose a pregnant Chinese woman travels to the United States specifically for the purpose of giving birth here so that her child acquires U.S. citizenship and then after which she returns to China. Do you believe that child should automatically receive U.S. citizenship solely because the birth occurred on U.S. soil?

That is the actual policy question. Birth tourism is a real phenomenon and I think it's perfectly reasonable to debate whether U.S. citizenship should be obtained this way.

13 hours ago, JerryM said:

President Trump signed executive orders targeting the "birth tourism industry" and restricting birthright citizenship. Administration officials asserted that foreign nationals engage in fraud by entering the U.S. on tourist visas to give birth and secure citizenship for their children, prompting legal challenges from civil rights groups.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/6015054-trump-executive-orders-birthright-citizenship-birth-tourism/

NB DJT is just mad that he missed out on that industry.

meantime we have a "first lady" aka a sexy hot young gal who entered the usa on a "genius visa" because she was being offered up to billionaires in the kit kat club which in Thailand would be known as upper end freelancer club ...and of course nobody checked very deeply into exactly how was she allowed this genius visa much less working with no permit...no rich connections and she would be deported long ago...oh thats right...she was hanging at the kit kat club waiting for a rich connected guy like trump to pay the bribes necessary for her to hang around for life plus bring her parents along for the ride....so i guess she was after all a genius at looking hot and hooking a big fat rich fish. Sounds a lot like fraud to me.

Edited August 7Aug 7 by pomchop

Trump claims that he wants to stop "wealthy people" from engaging in birth tourism by having children in the US who would then have US citizenship. Yet, he is the one who made an executive order creating the Trump Gold Card, which allows wealthy individuals or corporations to pay between 1 and 5 million US dollars for a path to US citizenship.

Individual Gold Card: Requires a non-refundable $15,000 Department of Homeland Security (DHS) processing fee followed by a $1 million financial gift upon completing vetting.Corporate Gold Card: Requires a $15,000 processing fee per employee and a $2 million corporate gift. Corporate sponsors can transfer the residency sponsorship rights to a new employee without submitting an additional $2 million gift, subject to transfer fees and re-vetting.Family Members: Spouses and unmarried children under 21 can be added to an initial application, each requiring an additional $15,000 processing fee and a $1 million gift.Proposed Platinum Card: A higher-tier $5 million option has been discussed to allow up to 270 days of U.S. residency per year without tax obligations.

11 hours ago, ericthai said:

You keep saying Trump is “defying the Supreme Court,” but which Supreme Court ruling are you talking about?

There is a big difference between Trump doing something, a lower court blocking it, the administration appealing that ruling, and Trump actually refusing to comply with an order of the Supreme Court.

If you're claiming that Trump has simply ignored a Supreme Court order and continued doing exactly what the Supreme Court ordered him not to do, then give us the case and the specific order he refused to obey.

Let's look at the facts, but “Trump is a pig and a clown who defies the Supreme Court” isn't evidence.

Tell us which Supreme Court order he defied and exactly what he did in violation of it.

Donald Trump signed a pair of executive orders on Thursday aimed at restricting the right of birthright citizenship despite the Supreme Court's recent ruling overturning his attempt to ban it.

At a White House ceremony, the president was flanked by Stephen Miller, the architect of his deportation program, as he unveiled two orders targeting birthright citizenship and “birth tourism”, which Republicans argue is a massive source of fraud.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-birthright-citizenship-executive-orders-b3028955.html

After taking office, the Trump administration repeatedly refused to rule out defying court orders and dismissed the authority of district courts. Administration officials like Vice President JD Vance called for judges who rule against the administration to be removed from office. The Department of Justice brought an unprecedented lawsuit against every judge who sits on the District Court of Maryland for imposing a temporary freeze in deportations to ensure due process is followed. And while the president has said he would respect the federal courts when they rule against him, his statements do not match his administration’s actions in court.

Since taking office, the Trump administration has employed various tactics to avoid complying with some of the dozens of orders courts have issued limiting its authority. In some cases, the administration has cited administrative error to explain and justify evident noncompliance. In others, the government has frustrated inquiries made by litigants and courts into whether an order is in fact being complied with. In the first six months of this administration alone, courts in at least 12 cases have found that the administration violated one or more court orders. In many more cases, litigants allege that orders are being violated, but haven’t yet been able to prove it.

https://protectdemocracy.org/work/the-trump-administrations-conflict-with-the-courts-explained/

I could go on, and on, and on.

On 8/7/2026 at 10:38 AM, PingRoundTheWorld said:

That's EXACTLY what it means in most countries around the world. No reason why the US is special and should allow it.

What countries EXACTLY?

13 hours ago, technoronin said:

That is not completely true. There is a visa waiver program in the Norther Mariana Islands which is a territory of the United States.

OK. But not 90 days. Timing a pregnancy for 14 days is not easy:

The Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI) allows eligible Chinese nationals to visit visa-free for up to 14 days under the EVS-TAP (CNMI Economic Vitality & Security Travel Authorization Program), provided they obtain an approved electronic travel authorization from U.S. Customs and Border Protection prior to departure. though U.S. lawmakers have recently pushed legislation to terminate the program over security and birth-tourism concerns.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/01/06/2024-31326/implementation-of-the-commonwealth-of-the-northern-mariana-islands-cnmi-economic-vitality-and

Edited August 8Aug 8 by JerryM

On 8/7/2026 at 7:48 AM, Tug said:

Both!miller is the Jewish version of Himmler he’s just using the racist hate tool on a different minority.they are both vandals and a cancer on humanity in my view.we need to put them in the dustbin of hell.

Not to put too fine point on it, but I think that Miller is the reincarnation of Reinhard Heydrich--- see photo below:

Edited August 8Aug 8 by LarryLEB

Posts using derogatory and toxic nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be removed. If you don’t want your post to be removed, spell people’s names correctly, this applies to both sides of the political debate.

Low value posts have been removed:

13. Low-Value Posts - Posts that add no written contribution are not allowed.

    This includes emoji-only replies, very short comments, memes, GIFs, screenshots, or embedded social media posts without explanation or opinion.

Poor Melania. She thought that coming to the USA she could have a son and he would give her a reason to stay as he would be born an American.

And now this!

6 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Poor Melania. She thought that coming to the USA she could have a son and he would give her a reason to stay as he would be born an American.

And now this!

yes that melani whose visa permitting her into the usa very very highly questionable and most likely illegal...maybe blanche or patel will order a complete investigation as to who approved her "genius visa" as well as her parents being allowed into usa as well as working with no permit....what a "genius" she was who figured out how to be recruited by some rich guy to go wiggle her assets as a hot sexy gal with a sexy accent prancing around while very rich old white men hit on her and dangled promises of being the "companion" of well connected rich guys.....true genius but being sexy is not exactly what the requirements for genius visa outline....

but she "does not care" as she is "special" and the laws do not apply to her.

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Donald Trump signed a pair of executive orders on Thursday aimed at restricting the right of birthright citizenship despite the Supreme Court's recent ruling overturning his attempt to ban it.

At a White House ceremony, the president was flanked by Stephen Miller, the architect of his deportation program, as he unveiled two orders targeting birthright citizenship and “birth tourism”, which Republicans argue is a massive source of fraud.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-birthright-citizenship-executive-orders-b3028955.html

After taking office, the Trump administration repeatedly refused to rule out defying court orders and dismissed the authority of district courts. Administration officials like Vice President JD Vance called for judges who rule against the administration to be removed from office. The Department of Justice brought an unprecedented lawsuit against every judge who sits on the District Court of Maryland for imposing a temporary freeze in deportations to ensure due process is followed. And while the president has said he would respect the federal courts when they rule against him, his statements do not match his administration’s actions in court.

Since taking office, the Trump administration has employed various tactics to avoid complying with some of the dozens of orders courts have issued limiting its authority. In some cases, the administration has cited administrative error to explain and justify evident noncompliance. In others, the government has frustrated inquiries made by litigants and courts into whether an order is in fact being complied with. In the first six months of this administration alone, courts in at least 12 cases have found that the administration violated one or more court orders. In many more cases, litigants allege that orders are being violated, but haven’t yet been able to prove it.

https://protectdemocracy.org/work/the-trump-administrations-conflict-with-the-courts-explained/

I could go on, and on, and on.

Okay, now you've actually provided something we can talk about.

I'll concede that there have been cases where lower-court judges have found that the Trump administration failed to comply with court orders.

So I'm not going to claim the administration has complied perfectly with every court order in every case.

But that's still different from your original claim that Trump is simply “defying the Supreme Court.”

Take the birthright-citizenship issue. If the Supreme Court strikes down one approach and Trump comes back with a different or narrower executive order based on a different legal argument, that doesn't automatically mean he's defying the Supreme Court. The new action can be challenged and the courts can decide whether that approach is constitutional as well.

We've seen presidents do exactly this before.

Remember Biden's student-loan forgiveness program? The Supreme Court ruled in Biden v. Nebraska that his administration didn't have the authority under the HEROES Act to implement that massive debt-cancellation program. Biden didn't just abandon his goal of providing student-debt relief. His administration pursued other approaches using different claimed legal authorities and regulatory programs, including SAVE. Those efforts were challenged in court too.

Was Biden “defying the Supreme Court” merely because he continued looking for another legal way to accomplish his policy goal? I don't think so.

He was trying a different legal route and the courts were free to rule on that route as well.

The same standard should apply to Trump.

If Trump loses at the Supreme Court and then simply refuses to obey the Court's actual order, I'll call that defying the Supreme Court. But issuing a different executive action and allowing its legality to be tested in court is not, by itself, defiance.

And your Protect Democracy link mostly concerns disputes over compliance with lower federal courts. Those are legitimate issues to discuss, but they don't establish your original claim that Trump believes he has more power than the Supreme Court.

If you've got a specific Supreme Court order that Trump simply refused to obey, post the case and what he did in violation of it.

20 hours ago, Issan girl said:

Trump claims that he wants to stop "wealthy people" from engaging in birth tourism by having children in the US who would then have US citizenship. Yet, he is the one who made an executive order creating the Trump Gold Card, which allows wealthy individuals or corporations to pay between 1 and 5 million US dollars for a path to US citizenship.

Individual Gold Card: Requires a non-refundable $15,000 Department of Homeland Security (DHS) processing fee followed by a $1 million financial gift upon completing vetting.Corporate Gold Card: Requires a $15,000 processing fee per employee and a $2 million corporate gift. Corporate sponsors can transfer the residency sponsorship rights to a new employee without submitting an additional $2 million gift, subject to transfer fees and re-vetting.Family Members: Spouses and unmarried children under 21 can be added to an initial application, each requiring an additional $15,000 processing fee and a $1 million gift.Proposed Platinum Card: A higher-tier $5 million option has been discussed to allow up to 270 days of U.S. residency per year without tax obligations.

I'm not seeing the contradiction you're apparently seeing.

First, the Gold Card doesn't simply hand someone U.S. citizenship for $1 million. It provides a route to lawful permanent residency for someone who passes the required vetting and makes a substantial financial contribution to the United States. Citizenship would still require going through the naturalization process.

But more importantly, you're comparing two completely different things.

Birth tourism is someone deliberately coming to the United States to give birth so the child automatically acquires U.S. citizenship simply by being born on U.S. soil.

The Gold Card is an immigration policy deliberately designed by the United States to select people we believe will provide substantial economic benefit to the country. They apply, they're vetted, and they make a $1 million or $2 million contribution to the United States.

Personally, I don't have a problem with that concept.

If someone from another country has the resources to contribute $1 million to the United States, passes our background and security checks, qualifies for legal permanent residency, supports themselves rather than becoming a burden on taxpayers and eventually meets the requirements for citizenship, why would I oppose that?

In fact, I'd rather have an immigration system that asks, “What does this person bring to the United States?” than one where citizenship can be obtained for a child simply because the parents managed to arrange for the birth to occur on American soil.

You may disagree with that policy, but there's nothing inherently inconsistent about opposing birth tourism while supporting selective legal immigration based on economic contribution.

One is about exploiting an automatic consequence of where a child is born. The other is the United States deliberately deciding whom it wants to admit and under what conditions.

Those aren't contradictory positions.

On 8/7/2026 at 10:32 AM, save the frogs said:

Why should "the courts" have more power than a President?

And what makes "the courts" infallible and all-knowing that they can do no wrong?

The courts interpret the laws made by Congress and signed by the President. The final say on a law in question or an executive order is the SCOTUS.

In any case, banning birthright to infants born in the US will exacerbate the declining birth rate in that country - and the US's future ability to maintain its (already poor) system of social security. It is currently 1.7 births per US woman. Replacement rate, set out by WHO, is 2.1 per woman. While american women of reproductive age are having fewer births, a study by experts at Mayo Clinic in the US have found that the US has leapt into first place in recent years for teen pregnancies/births. Top 3 are USA, Russia, and UK - all per capita. And I'd argue all 3 are pretty crappy places for teens from poor, disadvantaged or working class backgrounds - and are ripe pickings for teen pregnancies and births. Ban on abortions in the US might have added to the numbers.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11537490/

On 8/7/2026 at 2:42 PM, JerryM said:

There is no official tally of babies born to tourists on American soil. In its most recent estimate in 2020, the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that supports restricting immigration, put the number at around 20,000 to 26,000 babies a year.

That is less than 1 percent of the number of babies born in the United States in 2020, according to statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/01/us/politics/supreme-court-birth-tourism-birthright-citizenship.html

A study led by researchers at Penn State University reviewed historical natality records and concluded that "birth tourism" births consistently sit between 5,000 and 10,000 annually.

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/birthright-citizenship-birth-tourism-fact-check/71800161

NB China citizens do not qualify for visa waiver program -- they must apply for a tourist visa at a US embassy or consulate.

The Visa waiver program (for 42 countries) is for 90 day maximum stay so to time a pregnancy and still allowed entry to US (i.e. not showing pregnancy) is pretty tight

Pregnant Chinese women have turned a tropical paradise into a maternity ward — pumping out babies who automatically become US citizens daily.

The Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), a US territory northeast of Guam in the Pacific Ocean, has been flooded with so-called “birth tourists” since 2009 when then-president Barack Obama introduced a visa-waiver program for Chinese nationals.

China-watchers estimate about 1,000 companies offer birth tourism to the Northern Mariana Islands, other US overseas territories and even the US mainland. They claim a gob-smacking 1.5 million American babies are being raised in China by Chinese parents who’ve participated in birth tourism.

On 8/7/2026 at 9:20 AM, Eric Loh said:

The funny thing is you are wrong. 33 countries in the world have unconditional birthright citizenship

Europe and East Asia have none. The point is that a lot of European posters here will post hate about Trump trying to change a practice their own countries don't even support.

51 minutes ago, Luuk Chaai said:

Pregnant Chinese women have turned a tropical paradise into a maternity ward — pumping out babies who automatically become US citizens daily.

The Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), a US territory northeast of Guam in the Pacific Ocean, has been flooded with so-called “birth tourists” since 2009 when then-president Barack Obama introduced a visa-waiver program for Chinese nationals.

More recently, Republican lawmakers have cited birth tourism in the Northern Mariana Islands, a U.S. territory that has looser visa requirements and is closer to China. Official data, however, has shown that such births have dropped off significantly to 47 births registered to foreign tourists in 2025, from the peak of 581 in 2018.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/01/us/politics/supreme-court-birth-tourism-birthright-citizenship.html

NB as posted above, the visa waiver program for Chinese citizens to Northern Mariana is MAXIMUM 14 days

NB2 No wonder the numbers are off when you have this:

President Donald Trump claimed that "hundreds of thousands" of birth tourism babies benefit from U.S. citizenship each year. However, immigration data and policy experts state this figure is a major overestimate, with independent estimates placing actual annual birth tourism numbers between roughly 5,000 and 26,000

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/what-to-know-trump-attempt-limit-birthright-citizenship/4139978/

Edited August 10Aug 10 by JerryM

Perfect! The Chinese have abused this already long enough.

Next Trump should propose the same law that Argentina president Javier Milei just introduced: If politicians run a deficit, they STOP GETTING PAID. No salaries for public officials, from the president down to members of Congress, until the budget is balanced. Public office was never supposed to be a lucrative career for narcissists and psychopaths. It was meant to be a civic duty and an obligation. Javier Milei’s "Fiscal Shackle" law finally forces accountability. If politicians don't do their job, THEY pay the price, not the taxpayers. Why can’t we have common sense like this? This would work well in Europe too.

15 hours ago, FinChin67 said:

Perfect! The Chinese have abused this already long enough.

Next Trump should propose the same law that Argentina president Javier Milei just introduced: If politicians run a deficit, they STOP GETTING PAID. No salaries for public officials, from the president down to members of Congress, until the budget is balanced. Public office was never supposed to be a lucrative career for narcissists and psychopaths. It was meant to be a civic duty and an obligation. Javier Milei’s "Fiscal Shackle" law finally forces accountability. If politicians don't do their job, THEY pay the price, not the taxpayers. Why can’t we have common sense like this? This would work well in Europe too.

Did it work well for Call-Me-Dave and Gideon? Austerity that is.

Milei's law is essentially a strict austerity law. It'll never pass, because Turkey's never vote for Christmas. So its meaningless.

The Argie Leader, former stand up comic, is right that Argentina needs to get its finances under control, but his “Fiscal Shackle” is the sort of daft idea you get when an economic nincompoop mixes a simple slogan for an understanding of how government and an economy actually work. This half wit thinks its a good idea to have a national holiday marking a football match, costing Argentinian businesses millions of mickey mouse Argentinian pesos in lost productivity. A government isn't a household that has to balance the books every single year: sometimes you borrow to get through a recession, a crisis or to invest in things that benefit the country for decades. A rigid no-deficit rule could force governments to slash useful spending simply because it's easier to cut than politically protected programmes. Guess what, your hero will likely plough billions into arming the Argentinian armed forces to go and attack the Falklands, to lose again. Argentina needs sensible fiscal discipline and politicians who can be held to account—not a pair of handcuffs that prevents any government responding sensibly when circumstances change. You don't cure fiscal recklessness by making economic stupidity compulsory. The problem is they are Spanish Catholics, which seems to relieve them of the ability to carry out hardwork in an Anglican Protestant manner.

On 8/6/2026 at 3:27 PM, Tug said:

More meat for his dwindling base in my view + it ain’t gonna pass but it does keep people talking about him.what an absolutely ugly specimen of a man.

So, you're in favor of birth tourism?

22 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Europe and East Asia have none. The point is that a lot of European posters here will post hate about Trump trying to change a practice their own countries don't even support.

But that's not why he's doing it, to become more European, more Asian. He's doing it so America becomes more white.

Unrestricted Jus Soli (Birthright citizenship) is practiced by about about 35 countries. You are a liar when you claim Europe and Asia does not practice this. The majors mostly do, but with restrictions. He's abolishing it, to be like India, unless you happen to be a third rate football player who lost his place with two other countries.

https://i.redd.it/5hxlv4kkbv4d1.jpeg

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, you're in favor of birth tourism?

I am in favor of the constitution if there’s a problem legislation is the answer.NOT buy DECREE especially by some cartoon trust fund baby that’s never had to pay consequences for his deeds.

Just now, Tug said:

I am in favor of the constitution if there’s a problem legislation is the answer.NOT buy DECREE especially by some cartoon trust fund baby that’s never had to pay consequences for his deeds.

It was a pretty simple yes or no question.

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

It was a pretty simple yes or no question.

Nonsense that’s a got ya question in an attempt to put someone in a box……furthermore it’s a constitutional amendment he’s trying to kill by decree that sir is rule by ditctate not by democracy it’s also a betrayal of the oath of office.

27 minutes ago, Tug said:

Nonsense that’s a got ya question in an attempt to put someone in a box……furthermore it’s a constitutional amendment he’s trying to kill by decree that sir is rule by ditctate not by democracy it’s also a betrayal of the oath of office.

And you failed spectacularly.

2 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

Did it work well for Call-Me-Dave and Gideon? Austerity that is.

Milei's law is essentially a strict austerity law. It'll never pass, because Turkey's never vote for Christmas. So its meaningless.

The Argie Leader, former stand up comic, is right that Argentina needs to get its finances under control, but his “Fiscal Shackle” is the sort of daft idea you get when an economic nincompoop mixes a simple slogan for an understanding of how government and an economy actually work. This half wit thinks its a good idea to have a national holiday marking a football match, costing Argentinian businesses millions of mickey mouse Argentinian pesos in lost productivity. A government isn't a household that has to balance the books every single year: sometimes you borrow to get through a recession, a crisis or to invest in things that benefit the country for decades. A rigid no-deficit rule could force governments to slash useful spending simply because it's easier to cut than politically protected programmes. Guess what, your hero will likely plough billions into arming the Argentinian armed forces to go and attack the Falklands, to lose again. Argentina needs sensible fiscal discipline and politicians who can be held to account—not a pair of handcuffs that prevents any government responding sensibly when circumstances change. You don't cure fiscal recklessness by making economic stupidity compulsory. The problem is they are Spanish Catholics, which seems to relieve them of the ability to carry out hardwork in an Anglican Protestant manner.

Comparing UK austerity to Argentina is nonsense. Britain never printed its way into triple-digit inflation or serial default. Argentina did. When a country has destroyed its currency repeatedly, a hard fiscal rule isn’t ‘daft’ — it’s the only thing markets will believe.

The football-holiday and Falklands digs are just noise.

And the Catholic/Protestant hard-work theory is embarrassing.

13 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

And you failed spectacularly.

It certainly puts you squarely in the authoritarian camp but then again you are a trump devotee.

Or like Ebun now wants a pathway for the second generation to have citizenship, she talks about " we can choose our sexuality so why can they not choose our citizenship".