Cantakerous Old Man

[baabaabobo]

Hard to find the first time. From Chalong circle head towards Rawai. Just before you reach the waterfront there is a temple gate on the opposite side of the road (just after a bank on the left). You go through the temple gate as if going to the Wat. Once inside the grounds it is on the left. I had the Chateaubriand with bearnaise sauce for 570 baht and it was heavenly.

[traveldog]

hmmm....memories. My parents were fairly normal I think and dealt with my sister and I consistently. If we were lucky enough to get to go out with them to a nice restaurant is was considered a treat. We were not allowed to disturb other diners....and I remember the one time I was just a bit too noisy and messing with my sister my parents got up whisked us out and home before the food came..... following up the threat that if we didn't behave we would all go home, and this punishment was painful without any physical stuff!! ...from then on with a few reminders it was pretty understood and not bad. I also remember feeling sorry for the friends parents when their kids (our peers) would go ape shit...really kind of embarassing. Learning manners, being respectful of others space is I think civilized and polite behavior....something I am grateful my parents took the time and effort to instill in my sister and I. Whether it's disruptive children in nice restaurants or loud mouthed adults it is the same....plain old disrespect for others. However.....it is to be expected at most public places and not worth confronting the parents/or parties about and could be dangerous! Anyway...I think that being polite is important....children learn this from their parents and IMHO you are not helping your children by letting them run amok in public places where some people will be affected...By all means children should be seen and heard...but in the right amounts and volume

[OlRedEyes]

hmmm....memories. My parents were fairly normal I think and dealt with my sister and I consistently. If we were lucky enough to get to go out with them to a nice restaurant is was considered a treat. We were not allowed to disturb other diners....and I remember the one time I was just a bit too noisy and messing with my sister my parents got up whisked us out and home before the food came..... following up the threat that if we didn't behave we would all go home, and this punishment was painful without any physical stuff!! ...from then on with a few reminders it was pretty understood and not bad. I also remember feeling sorry for the friends parents when their kids (our peers) would go ape shit...really kind of embarassing. Learning manners, being respectful of others space is I think civilized and polite behavior....something I am grateful my parents took the time and effort to instill in my sister and I. Whether it's disruptive children in nice restaurants or loud mouthed adults it is the same....plain old disrespect for others. However.....it is to be expected at most public places and not worth confronting the parents/or parties about and could be dangerous! Anyway...I think that being polite is important....children learn this from their parents and IMHO you are not helping your children by letting them run amok in public places where some people will be affected...By all means children should be seen and heard...but in the right amounts and volume

Amen.

Too often parents are simply too lazy to be parents. A child that learns no respect for others rights turns into an adult with no respect for others rights.

Talking about society's obligation to children... Parents also have an obligation to society...

[ProThaiExpat]

I was raised in a tradition that professed that "children should be seen and not heard" in polite society and public places where their activities infringe on others.

We all know what restaurants cater to kids and in which kids have a lot of fun, including adjacent play facilities for them.

I view parents, who are attempting to satisfy their own needs over those of their children, by taking them to places the children don't enjoy, as selfish and not as good of parents as they could be.

I have no way of judging the restaurant in question or the level of noise generated by the playing children. But restaurants are not children's playgrounds.

One saving grace in this instance, is perhaps, if the children were playing in the parking lot among parked cars, they were perhaps acting appropriately, if was the restaurant's fault in having their dining facilities open to a car park.

I think many of us who have been exposed to children running up and down and playing in eating establishments, over react when we hear of such events.

Most have seen well mannered children sitting properly, eating properly and talking quietly in a restaurant with their parents, although not as often as undisciplined children, usually the product of poor parenting.

I, for one, comment, never to the rowdies, but to the well mannered family, always stopping and congratulating the parent for the beautiful manners of their children.

My solution to rowdy children in a restaurant is to depart as rapidly as possible upon their arrival, whether it is before I have even sat down or before the food is delivered. Rarely am I asked to pay by the restaurant, if I depart before the food arrives, if I explain my departure is predicated on the noisy children.

Faced with the unpleasantness of expelling an unruly family, I am sure restaurants prefer guests to depart due to their discomfiture.

I have children and grandchildren, so I have 'been there and done" that and I agree with the poster that pointed out that parents often develop a tolerance of their children's noise making that they don't develop for other peoples children.

In general, the basic principle of civility is to enjoy your freedom up to the point it intrudes on others enjoyment of theirs, and if that line is crossed, then desist. We all can apply that principal to our lives as we choose, but clearly in this instance, the OP was sensitive to the noise level of his children, which is to his credit and he certainly will monitor it more closely in the future, whether placing labels on the objecting diner makes anyone feel better or not.

[Super Hans]

Ultimately, other people's kids are a pain in the arse. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Kids and are a pain, so are old people. Don't get me started on how irritating my young nephews and elderly parents are!

This would have to rate as one of the most disrespectful statements I have read on this forum. Were you were the perfect kid with the shittiest parents and family? Please stay away from here and enjoy the hole you live in. Have a nice life into you own retirering years.

It was just a joke mate. And a fact. I'm sure they think the same of me - I know they do, they tell me often enough. Everyone sees the world through their own eyes...

[LivinLOS]

Is not my standard and I will not have any simply as I do not wish to tolerate noisy children in my life.

That's your perogative. I don't like the sight of drunken lager louts stumbling about Bangla Rd., so I avoid the strip. You can avoid places where children are likely to be. If the restaurant allows families it is the business owner's decision and you have the option of not going there.

Well as niether of us were there we wont know 1) how disruptive the children were or 2) where they were being disruptive or C) the level of class of the restaurant..

That said.. The kind of place where you can enjoy a "Heavenly chateaubriand with bearnaise sauce" and relax post meal with a cognac and good coffee starts to suggest to me a more civilised environment than one where children should be allowed to noisily run around ??

What happened to the seen and not heard rules of public behaviour I was raised under ??

I think it went out sometime in the 1800's, about the time they stopped; hanging & flogging small children for mischief, being sent to work houses if they were abandoned and given gin to keep them quiet.

Just remember that when children are neither seen nor heard, that is when the trouble arises. I'd rather a bunch of noisy kids playing ball in the soi near my house then doing yaba quietly and burglarizing homes sight unseen.

Kids playing ball in the street is not the standard we are talking about.. And if you think children in a restaurant is not a time for seen and not heard then we radically dissagree on what good public behaviour of children and brings me back to the infringing on others rights parents seem to routinely do and expect it to be OK.

As someone else said, parents are much like pet owners who are very often desensitized to the noise and disruption they cause. The 'Its only a child at play' defence doesnt cut it for those that want to have a nice meal in peace in a nice place. Its your child at play and thats not always appropriate, of course the parents feel they should have the full rights to enjoy society even while stopping others from gaining the very thing they came out for. Some places its cool, some times and sittings it is better than others, but an evening sitting in a classy restaurant ?? well thats not the time to 'start somewhere' at practising.

As to the comment much earlier in the thread about making this like the west, I rarely if ever see Thai children causing the same level of noise or running amok..

[pumpuiman]

Children should be seen and not heard.

Better yet, not seen and not heard

Or cooked medium rare and sliced thinly.

[geriatrickid]

Ok, just to get everything back on track, I think everyone agrees about kids running "amok" in a restaurant. Aside from the nuisance it's dangerous when the kid hits a waiter and gets splattered with something hot. But this was in the carpark which is hardly a place for tranquility, especially around here with those infernal motorcycles revving etc. and the usual loud drunken tourists.

And I've seen Thai kids running about shrieking in restaurants However, due to pricing considerations it is the rare Thai family that patronizes places that serve farangs with meals @ 500B+. Maybe that's why you haven't seen them.

And just a word to the wise, never scowl at a Thai kid in front of the family or offer parenting tips. It's a good way to lose your left nut or get into a nasty argument. Plenty of threads on the concept of face and other such stuff in TV.

[LivinginKata]

Children should be seen and not heard.

Better yet, not seen and not heard

Or cooked medium rare and sliced thinly.

Exactly my sentiments.... have to chuckle at the 'cooked medium rare & sliced thinly'

I've noticed that Thai parents have an extremely high tolernce to shrieking kids, screaming sulks, high spirits... but when one of the parents has had enough, boy, watch the switching the kid gets on the legs with the nearest small branch. I seen this happen a number of times and was astonished at the parent's anger and vigorous switching. In many 'advanced' countries the offending parent/adult would be facing serious police charges.

Edited September 3, 2007 by LivinginKata

[baabaabobo]

Wow! I didn't think this thread would bring out so many child haters - I just wanted a little moan as I had to suppress my anger when it occurred.

Just to put things in perspective.

Yes the restaurant was up market (but not overly so)

The restaurant was open air with fans and was "family friendly" indeed had a kids menu with the usual fish 'n chips

or hot dogs.

There were other kids there.

Our children aged between 7 and 11 were well behaved and NOT making much noise plus they were outside away from diners.

We ate a drank at least 3 times more than the old guy and if he had a complaint he should have said something at the outset and not ruin our meal by his comment and theatrics of storming out at the end.

Other diners raised their eyebrows too at his behavior and told us that the kids were not making a noise as did the owner.

This is why I had my rant.

[OlRedEyes]

Wow! I didn't think this thread would bring out so many child haters

Well, that line says a lot....

[fiddlehead]

It seems that some people forget sometimes that they are in another country where the rules are different.

To me that means be flexible, try not to be shocked, and have a higher level of tolerance.

One of the things that Thais don't like about us farangs is how we tend to rant and rave and b1tch about things like this. (and confrontation about it openly)

In Asia, there's a lot more people living together and Thais seem to have a way of going with the flow and not rocking the boat.

Maybe there's a lesson to be learned from them.

I certainly am not trying to justify my son's bad behavior. We tried taking him out and realize he is not ready for it at 1 1/2.

We'll try again, possibly in another 6 months.

My Thai wife didn't think it was a big deal although i did.

[Prakanong]

Cities like Phuket are major tourist resorts, and the punters should not have to be confined to places like McDonalds just because they have children. If the grumpy old bastard has a problem point him to eat in his favourite bar and/or salavate over some underage gogo girl.

How many assumptions can one person make without any evidence

The old guy has favourite bar's?

He salivates over go go girls?

Go Go's employ underage girls?

Now while I agree he must have been a bit of a grumpy old bugger given the circumstances outlined by the OP you on no evidence at all have labeled him a sex tourist or sexpat with a predeliction for underage girls.

Amazing Thailand.

[Prakanong]

Children should be seen and not heard.

Better yet, not seen and not heard

Or cooked medium rare and sliced thinly.

Exactly my sentiments.... have to chuckle at the 'cooked medium rare & sliced thinly'

I've noticed that Thai parents have an extremely high tolernce to shrieking kids, screaming sulks, high spirits... but when one of the parents has had enough, boy, watch the switching the kid gets on the legs with the nearest small branch. I seen this happen a number of times and was astonished at the parent's anger and vigorous switching. In many 'advanced' countries the offending parent/adult would be facing serious police charges.

There are quite a few others with high tolerance for their childrens behaviour too and not just Thai's.

At Immigration the other week there was one mother telling her kids to go under the barrier to get in front of the Kaffir.

[Naam]

Just to put things in perspective.

We ate a drank at least 3 times more than the old guy and if he had a complaint he should have said something at the outset and not ruin our meal by his comment and theatrics of storming out at the end.

aren't you mixing up things? according to your post and the remarks of the "cantankerous old man" YOUR children spoiled HIS dinner.

btw, i'd never even sit down at a restaurant table when i see a family with small children in the vicinity.