Us Embassy Confiscated My Passport

[DegenFarang]

My passport had been pretty beaten up for the 6 or so years I had it. It was actually torn and coming apart and I've been hassled quite a bit going into and out of various countries...Thaland included. So I decided to go get a new one awhile before it expired.

Went through the usual crap and they told me to come back in two weeks. I did so and when I came in they had the Vice Consul come and tell me he is not giving me my old passport back at the request of the State Department. He told me he wont tell me any more information than that and getting a lawyer wont help. Passport doesn't belong to me, it is State Department property.

I filled that passport so full of stamps I had to get a new set of pages added. Just flipping through it and thinking of all of the memories gives me goosebumps. And now they tell me I'll never see it again. Not to mention my Thai Visa which they have now confiscated as well.

So my question for you is, why is America such a piece of shit? Oh wait, sorry. Wrong question. Why would they do this? He was implying that I may be in some type of trouble or something, but he wouldn't say anything. What reason would they have to keep my old passport and not return it to me...yet allow me to have a brand new passport and leave the embassy without questioning me etc.

FWIW I've been all over and travelling pretty much full-time for the last two years. I'm a young guy with no job on record and probably dont look to them like somebody who should be able to do this. Customs in the US always gives me a nice long question and answer period when I come into the country. I'm white, but I get the feeling they view me as some kind of terrorist or something. Just a thought on the possible reason here. I'm not a terrorist but I live a pretty good life but present myself in a pretty scruffy '###### you' manner with a beard, never wear nice clothes etc. Just giving you guys some background to work with to help me solve this one.

Should I be worried? Should I get a lawyer to look into this? What is their problem? Anybody ever heard of this happening?

[Jingthing]

Quite a mystery. You say you have a Thai visa in your old passport. Were you hoping to transfer that old visa into the new passport? If so, very bad news. If not, and they gave you a new passport, I am trying to figure out why this is a big problem for you. If you were really in big trouble, such as being a deadbeat Dad, they wouldn't have given you a new passport. Very curious though. It seems us Americans can't really fully escape, can we?

I never heard of that happening, not getting your old passport back. The only thing I can think of is that it was damaged but they would have voided it anyway, so thats a stupid reason.

If I were you and I still needed the Thai visa in my old passport, I would at least make another attempt at appealing to them based on the need for the Thai visa. The passport is owned by the US government, but how about the Thai visa? I might even contact a representative in DC because that does sound kind of outrageous. Of course, they might have already shredded it.

I am wondering whether this has happened to other Americans here. If so, let us know. It is troubling from the point of view of having our Thai visas confiscated.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[Khutan]

Something does not seem correct here.

[Tywais]

Any chance you have stamps to countries on the US forbidden list such as North Korea, Cuba etc.? Possibly a reason, but still odd.

[DegenFarang]

I fully agree something does not seem right. I swear on everthing that is sacred that is exactly what happened. They did provide me with a certified letter stating that the immigration department should honor the visa in my old passport as I have a new one. But they kept the old one! They made certified copies of the visa pages and gave them to me. I assume the immigration people are going to have a field day scratching their heads over this one...can't imagine this has happened to too many people.

I just had one more entry left on a 3 entry 60 day non-imm visa, so no worries as long as I can get out of thailand ok. They did give me my departure card and a certified copy of the stamp i got when i recently came back into the country.

I'm not too worried about the visa. I just want my passport for the memories. I know technically they own it...but i've never heard of them keeping it.

I also want to know who requested they keep it. He said 'i am not giving this passport back to you'. I asked why. "We have been requested to keep it and send it into the state department'. I asked who requested you to do that. 'i cannot tell you that'.

Is this like some kind of FBI or Homeland Security BS? Am I just being paranoid here? I'm a bit worried but aside from my non-traditional lifestyle which might raise some eyebrows (but not having anything illegal about it) there is nothing about me that should make them want to investigate me...

[jumnien]

Sounds like you lost a souvenir. Shouldn't be any problem with the Thai Visa. Next time, color scan your passport first for souvenir purposes. Stay open hearted and open minded and enjoy nature and drink lots of water. Don't imagine feature film paranoia stealth scenarios over this.

[Gary A]

Strange indeed. I got a new one August 24th of last year. When I picked up the new one, they punched four holes through the old one and handed it back to me.

[Jingthing]

I also thought it might be because you have a stamp for a no no country. Or more likely too many stamps for countries they don't like very much or are terror markers (Cambodia, Laos, Pakistan) and/or you really are under investigation for being a suspicious person. Lets face it, since Bush, things have gone downhill privacy-wise, etc. I still don't know why they needed the actual document, they could have just copied it!

Given you don't need the old passport for this visa, all you can do is drop it, and wait to see if you get handcuffed at your next brush with the US man.

I am speaking as someone who has an FBI file because of legal political activities in the 1960s, so I don't trust any government.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[jumnien]

Can you tell us more about your non-traditional lifestyle. I'd consider myself in the same boat.

[DegenFarang]

Can you tell us more about your non-traditional lifestyle. I'd consider myself in the same boat.

nah i'd rather not for a number of reasons. i think most of us on this forum probably lead non-traditional lives however at least as far as The Man is concerned.

but ya, this is odd to me because of what they guy who said he got four holes punched said...thats standard protocol.

i spoke to my lawyer tonite and he said they probably have me on a list of people to watch...and they want to add my passport to the file. he said it is nothing to worry about because if it were they wouldn't have issued me a fresh 10 year passport and let me go.

thx for the input here all. still curious to see though if this has happened to anybody else or if people have concrete guesses as to why they did this...my lawyer told me there is no way the embassy will ever tell me why they did this.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Can you tell us more about your non-traditional lifestyle. I'd consider myself in the same boat.

nah i'd rather not for a number of reasons. i think most of us on this forum probably lead non-traditional lives however at least as far as The Man is concerned.

but ya, this is odd to me because of what they guy who said he got four holes punched said...thats standard protocol.

i spoke to my lawyer tonite and he said they probably have me on a list of people to watch...and they want to add my passport to the file. he said it is nothing to worry about because if it were they wouldn't have issued me a fresh 10 year passport and let me go.

thx for the input here all. still curious to see though if this has happened to anybody else or if people have concrete guesses as to why they did this...my lawyer told me there is no way the embassy will ever tell me why they did this.

Do you happen to owe child support in the U.S.?  That's a major cause of an embassy, or State Dept, to withhold a passport and decline to issue a new one.

If not that, reckon you should go back to the ACS and ask politely "what do I do now?"  There may be a good reason from their viewpoint to have withheld the old passport and not issue a replacement.  You could/should ask them to follow up with State Dept for the reason and come up with a suggestion of how to clear this problem.

Mac

[Eff1n2ret]

It is very strange.

You say you are a young man of what might be described as "bohemian" appearance and lifestyle. Your old passport was tatty, to the extent where you say it has been queried at ports of entry.

A travel document which is dogeared may have been dismantled or otherwise tampered with. Also, young drifters have been known to sell their passports for a bit of ready cash. Even an expired passport may have some currency, as "spare parts" to assist in forging another document. I've seen, for example, an expired Brit passport with the corner cut off which was presented by an underage girl as proof of age to try and get into a nightclub. She'd got it from her older pal and stuck her photo in it.

So, maybe they wanted to keep your old passport to have a good look at it, check your travel history or whatever. But if they did suspect you of misusing it, it wasn't very smart to give you a new one, and punching 4 holes in it would make it pretty useless for anything else.

If they're checking up on you they obviously want you to know about it. Probably just a petty way of saying they don't like you.

Or maybe they just mislaid the hole punch

[britmaveric]

Sounds like you've been a naughty lad - unless its a mistake which is highly possible. But chances are you've prob done smth or been somewhere you shouldn't have.

[track61]

It's strange for sure but maybe since you trashed it out in 6 years, which means it was valid for 4 more, "they", or the guy handling the renewal, just didn't want you to have it back. Who knows what motivates people doing this sort of thing for a living, especially in today's world.

[bulmercke]

An embassy with-holding a passport is very unusual - and as several previous posters have mentioned - you're never goin' to get to the bottom of this.

Incidentally - over the last few years - thousands of Brits have been refused visas to visit the states - whether for a holiday or business - and the American embassy is under no obligation whatsoever to provide the unsuccessful applicants with an explanation. And doesn't.

Many of these people have no criminal records, are property owners and have regular full-time employment and in all respects would otherwise be deemed as responsible members of society. So why the huge number of rejections for no apparant reason? The unsuccessful applicants are left in the dark with a feeling of suspicion hanging over them.

I would say you've definitely been red-flagged - something that you've done in the past that has aroused suspicion with the authorities. And believe me - nowadays -something seemingly very trivial in most persons eyes can be enough.

[mangkorn]

Whatever the reason - and there may well be dark and sinister forces at play - it is just astonishingly stupid to treat your passport like a barroom napkin stuffed into your back pocket. Buy one of those cheap covers that protect it, and regard it with the importance it deserves - not because of the US government, but because it is your <deleted>' ticket to ride; without it, you are nothing, regardless of your country of citizenship.

In every country in the world, government officials will regard you with extreme suspicion if you have a passport in such a condition, because they are real sticklers for authority of every kind, and you have obviously demonstrated without any doubt that you are not. When you come slouching into their country, they will regard you as disrepectful, and perhaps an undesirable scumbag, and rightfully so. That may or may not be true. But it is just good common sense to take care of what is the most important possession that you have - for the lifestyle you prefer to lead.

You're just lucky that you didn't get detained by some dodgy border guards at some remote crossing.

Jeez, get some self-respect, man.

Send 'em to school, buy 'em books, an' yet they still don't learn nuthin'...

[brahmburgers]

you say the US embassy issued an official looking letter (my words) vouching for your existing Thai visa. I hope it works well for you. Don't want to sound alarmist, but I had US consulate issue an official looking letter in a similar circumstance for me (actually, it was to give a good excuse for why I had overstayed due to losing passport on day of visa renewal) and the Thai imm authorities in Mae Sai just scoffed at the letter, waved it away as if it were used toilet paper, and wouldn't even look at it. Then with a grin, told me I was 8 days late - notwithstanding that 6 of those days were Songkran - which compounded my tardiness (travel insanity, slow mail, etc). not my happiest travel experience.

this may all be hot air for naught, so good luck.

[DegenFarang]

"A travel document which is dogeared may have been dismantled or otherwise tampered with"

This certainly could be the case and I'd be very happy if it were. The passport certainly looked like somebody had tampered with it. When I went in to apply orignally I was quizzed by a supervisor on why I wanted a new one. The clear coating over the picture page was torn and the cover was separating from the page. Several countrys played with it and magnified this damage, but it was clear from they way they (Australia, Thailand, Germany etc) were messing with it and talking about it that they thought it could have been a falsified passport.

If thats the only reason I don't see why they wouldn't tell me and give me some kind of warning, but would be pretty cool as it would mean I didn't do anything wrong...other than treat my first passport like a coaster

[chinthee]

I had an absolute idiot immigration officer once in Russia, who upon inspecting my picture thereupon stuck his sharp ball point pen on the edge and pushed hard to see if it was really laminated. Almost ruined the pic. Ended up causing me no end of trouble every other country I went to and eventually had to scrap the passport and get a new one.

[DegenFarang]

Whatever the reason - and there may well be dark and sinister forces at play - it is just astonishingly stupid to treat your passport like a barroom napkin stuffed into your back pocket. Buy one of those cheap covers that protect it, and regard it with the importance it deserves - not because of the US government, but because it is your <deleted>' ticket to ride; without it, you are nothing, regardless of your country of citizenship.

In every country in the world, government officials will regard you with extreme suspicion if you have a passport in such a condition, because they are real sticklers for authority of every kind, and you have obviously demonstrated without any doubt that you are not. When you come slouching into their country, they will regard you as disrepectful, and perhaps an undesirable scumbag, and rightfully so. That may or may not be true. But it is just good common sense to take care of what is the most important possession that you have - for the lifestyle you prefer to lead.

You're just lucky that you didn't get detained by some dodgy border guards at some remote crossing.

Jeez, get some self-respect, man.

Send 'em to school, buy 'em books, an' yet they still don't learn nuthin'...

this is a good and true post. i do have a profound disprespect for authority (and my passport, citizenship, country) and could probably use an extra dose of respect for myself. thanks for the constructive criticism, your words did not fall on deaf ears.

[tropo]

I also thought it might be because you have a stamp for a no no country. Or more likely too many stamps for countries they don't like very much or are terror markers (Cambodia, Laos, Pakistan) and/or you really are under investigation for being a suspicious person.

I'd guess that's exactly why they've kept it. A young guy with no job on record is travelling all over the place and around SE Asia. Unless he's got a rich Daddy, or won the lottery, it's very suspicious indeed.

I'd say the OP raised some very red flags with homeland security. I'd expect they're going to do a thorough investigation and a passport full of stamps and visas will be very useful in their investigation.

I've heard so many stories about how badly the US Immigration Officers treat frequent travellers to SE Asia, I'm glad I'm not a US citizen.

[tropo]

Incidentally - over the last few years - thousands of Brits have been refused visas to visit the states - whether for a holiday or business - and the American embassy is under no obligation whatsoever to provide the unsuccessful applicants with an explanation. And doesn't.

A British national does not require a visa to holiday in the US. They are included under the "visa waiver program".

[Farma]

I think the fact the passport was “pretty beaten up” may hold the key to why it was retained.

In the FAQ’s on www.intpv.com

22. Can I have my mutilated passport confiscated by the passport agency returned?

No. Mutilated passports are not returned to the applicants and are destroyed within 30 days.

[Jingthing]

I think the fact the passport was “pretty beaten up” may hold the key to why it was retained.

In the FAQ’s on www.intpv.com

22. Can I have my mutilated passport confiscated by the passport agency returned?

No. Mutilated passports are not returned to the applicants and are destroyed within 30 days.

Yeah, but why didn't they just SAY that?

[chinthee]

The more I think about this I feel there is more at play here. I've had several new passports issued, and yes, as mentioned by another poster, they punch holes through the cover and I believe mark it as no longer valid, but always return it to you.

If you have visited a number of countries on the "watch list" that might be enough for them to want to scrutinize it further and there may be some kind of "trigger" to confiscate the old one when they see certain country stamps. I doubt this has anything to do with you personally being on any watch list just yet, or you wouldn't have gotten a new passport so quickly without any interview.

You mentioned the places you visited had sentimental value. Why not go back to US citizens services tomorrow and ask them if you can have photocopies of the pages for sentimental value. You'll probably be shown the door, but you can try it.

[Carmine6]

"A travel document which is dogeared may have been dismantled or otherwise tampered with"

This certainly could be the case and I'd be very happy if it were. The passport certainly looked like somebody had tampered with it. When I went in to apply orignally I was quizzed by a supervisor on why I wanted a new one. The clear coating over the picture page was torn and the cover was separating from the page. Several countrys played with it and magnified this damage, but it was clear from they way they (Australia, Thailand, Germany etc) were messing with it and talking about it that they thought it could have been a falsified passport.

If thats the only reason I don't see why they wouldn't tell me and give me some kind of warning, but would be pretty cool as it would mean I didn't do anything wrong...other than treat my first passport like a coaster

I think Farma has the right answer. If it had expired and you had it renewed, they'd give it back to you. Since you are having it replaced before it's expired, they keep the mutilated passport by policy. I was in the same boat and once I found out that they wouldn't return it, I reported it lost instead.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think those folks who have had them returned were getting renewals of an expiring passport rather than replacements for a passport that hadn't expired.

[JimmyCA]

Went through the usual crap and they told me to come back in two weeks. I did so and when I came in they had the Vice Consul come and tell me he is not giving me my old passport back at the request of the State Department.

Why would they do this?

I'm a young guy with no job on record

I live a pretty good life but present myself in a pretty scruffy '###### you' manner with a beard, never wear nice clothes etc.

Looks like you have your answer already.

Seems you presented yourself as a bum and were treated like a bum.

[Jingthing]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think those folks who have had them returned were getting renewals of an expiring passport rather than replacements for a passport that hadn't expired.

You are absolutely, 100 percent WRONG. Consider yourself corrected. Has nothing to do with it. Old passport are returned with punched holes, voided, but it doesn't matter if the old passport was still valid or not. And yes I did this recently myself.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Looks like you have your answer already.

Seems you presented yourself as a bum and were treated like a bum.

You see that (used?) to be the beauty about the USA. Even bums have (had?) equal rights under the law. What does a guy's scruffy appearance have to do with keeping his passport?

[chinthee]

Looks like you have your answer already.

Seems you presented yourself as a bum and were treated like a bum.

You see that (used?) to be the beauty about the USA. Even bums have (had?) equal rights under the law. What does a guy's scruffy appearance have to do with keeping his passport?

His appearance still has nothing to do with it. That's a red herring. I still maintain one or more of the countries he visited caused a red flag under the new guidelines of homeland security or something.