English Man Fathers Thai Child

[stevenjm]

edit. the part of the girls story that may be a bit hard to believe is that she knows who fathered the child without a doubt. i find it doubtful she had only passion once in the timfralme in question. maybe this guy is unlucky as she remembered part of his name. after all dont all farangs look alike....lol.

girls with this kind of social standing do get around............lol.

If she knows who it was then maybe she is not as promiscuous as what everybody thinks.

[Maigo6]

This has to be a Troll.

Started off innocent enough, then gradually moved on to the part where she was paid.

Now we will get the usual crap from all the experts here that all Thai girls are hookers and all Farangs are great.

[Prakanong]

This has to be a Troll.

Started off innocent enough, then gradually moved on to the part where she was paid.

Now we will get the usual crap from all the experts here that all Thai girls are hookers and all Farangs are great.

I actually think the scenario is quite credible - seen plenty of similar situations where it has not resulted in a baby.

Knew one girl who found money in her purse and was aghast and another who was offered money and was very upset. Most of them just take it and probably feel bad about it. I am not talking about regular professional girls here but those (naive) ones who are in the scenario outlined by the OP.

[JimmyCA]

This has to be a Troll.

Started off innocent enough, then gradually moved on to the part where she was paid.

Now we will get the usual crap from all the experts here that all Thai girls are hookers and all Farangs are great.

you have a bad attitude, but just to make you happy, this proves all Thai girls are hookers and all Farangs are great

She was paid, the guy is in the clear unless he wants otherwise. This is the thai way. Some dimwit farangs can't seem to stop from injecting themselves in other peoples business. The only reason to track the guy down is to extort money. The OP should pay if he thinks the child needs support from a farang.

[Maigo6]

The OP should pay if he thinks the child needs support from a farang.

And he'll be able to get a Visa for supporting a Thai kid.

[nomorcavmor]

Sorry, but how do you know this baby is really half farang? Maybe she had this baby with a Thai man who isn't paying up and now the mother knows that farangs feel guilty about other farangs or just like to help when needed. Therefore she is making up a story that sounds good and credible and pathetic for her new farang friends in order to make money???

I think Thailand is all about personal responsibility and if you decide to have a baby,you will be responsible and a Thai woman expects nothing less. Or her family expects nothing less. Maybe only some farangs feel duty bound where they would not feel duty bound given the mother was a secretary making decent money in London, or a doctor making great money in some other country. All women are not incapable of taking care of their children, and all throughout history, men abandon women who are not their wives, and even who are their wives. So what? Thailand doesn't protect the women here. They also don't protect farang here. So why should some farang who come here for a one-nighter, and pay for it, expect all the duty and obligations that go along with marriage in their country, but don't even go with marriage in Thailand??

Stupid. Nice for the wonen who get it from some farang, but not necessary.

[realmadrid25]

'If he was a paying customer then it was a 'work accident'; the same as there is little coming back on a girl that sticks you with a STD if the condom breaks the other way around would also be true. There is such a thing as the pill and not taking it because "it makes you fat" is surely not a reason if working in such a high-risk environment for exactly this kind of accidents.'

are you saying that if she was a prostitute he has no more responsibility to the child?

[realmadrid25]

"Sorry, but how do you know this baby is really half farang?"

i dunno, maybe look at it?

i don't know if DNA tests are possible in Thailand, but if they are, I don't see why you shouldn't find this guy and ask him to take one. If it comes up negative, he losses nothing. If it comes up positive, he can make plans to play a role in his child's life.

[raybkk]

The girl tells me she was enouraged to dinner with a few friends and some farang men. One took a liking to her and one thing lead to another. She also got some money out of this.

She slept with him for money - I thought that topics about girls who did this were not allowed on this forum.

Money? Maybe YES. Maybe NO! Prejudging again?

[raybkk]

The girl tells me she was enouraged to dinner with a few friends and some farang men. One took a liking to her and one thing lead to another. She also got some money out of this.

She slept with him for money - I thought that topics about girls who did this were not allowed on this forum.

Money? Maybe YES. Maybe NO! Prejudging again?

To mr_hippo: I take that back....OP indeed stated that she go tmoney out of this. Sorry dude!

[nomorcavmor]

I don't think it is possible to always be able to look at a young baby and know what it's ethnic background is. Why would some amount of blacks be able to "pass" as whites if this were not true, and this is at a later time in life usually.

However, yes, I would say that if you pay for sex with a hooker you are not responsible for some child that results, unless the laws in the country where you did that, say you are responsible. Since prostitution is mostly illegal everywhere, technically, this isn't usually a legal question that comes up. But morally it seems obvious. Even if some of us would like to see all children have two parents, that just isn't practical and that is exactly the reason why traditionally, in most societies, only children concieved in marriage are protected by law.

There are a large percentage of people who think the only reason to get married is because you want to have children. Thai people supposedly pay money to get a wife, and that wife then will usually have some kids with them. If societies around the world expected all men who have sex with women to be obligated the same as married men, then we probably wouldn't have any difference of marriage or not, or bad girls and good girls. But we do. We also have the difference of sex for hire, and sex for free, and sex within marriage. What would be the reason for this??

I think if your 20 year old grandson got his 17 year old girlfriend pregnant you would all not be pressing for lifetime support but for abortion, or neglecting it entirely. But since most of the men writing here are older men with a different sense of responsibility, you are pro taking care of the kid for life. I wonder how many of you were pro that idea when you were 20 and hit up a girl in Amsterdam?? How many wives, girlfriends did some of us give up as too much work earlier in life, but now that a Thai woman and baby aren't so much work, and we are finanacially stable, and paying for them doesn't cost more than your beer money, now you are pro taking care of the kid???

Get real. If you were in New York and the kid was going to cost you $5000 a month for a lady you had a one-night stand with, would you really be waiting there to fork over your money, or would you be looking for your way out??

[unforgiven]

I wouldnt get involved, you can't hope to know the full story.

exactly!!!

[unforgiven]

I wouldnt get involved, you can't hope to know the full story.

exactly!!!

It's this particular falangs baby.......because SHE says it is???? Ha..............stay out of it.......miles away if your smart because I've heard this scam before

[GuestHouse]

Get real. If you were in New York and the kid was going to cost you $5000 a month for a lady you had a one-night stand with, would you really be waiting there to fork over your money, or would you be looking for your way out??

In NY under any circumstances proven paternity would land you paying for your child - which is the way it should be.

I realize that the idea of sex without responsibility might seem an attractive idea - but the bottom line is, you play you pay.

OK for now in Thailand perhaps you don't perhaps it is possible to get from personal responsibility - but things are changing and for the better.

I can see a good argument for compulsory DNA testing here.

[blizzard]

mr maigo has a bad attitude toward farangs?

that cant be true...............LOL

[pop_corn]

if she Was even "working" then why she didnt have any other better method than a cheap condom?

sorry, i think is her foult and if the guy knows, n still he doesnt want to give her anything he is right. he was jut paying to have fun. was her mistake know to know how to protect her self, and if was not a sick baby but AIDS? then she will be probably dying, and that is worse.

[nomorcavmor]

I realize that sex comes with some responsibility but that is only is some societies. And the laws that are very strong regarding responsibility seem to come from governments that pay for the medical care and the welfare of the fatherless child, but not so much in countries where nobody is legally responsible for very much and where the state offers no benefits.

In this case, like Thailand, the woman is basically responsible for her decision to have a child, no matter if she could control that choice or not.

Why would some farangs, who are offered no legal protection here, who can't marry the woman and then work here at any job any Thai person can work at, who has to check in or leave the country every 90 days, no matter if this takes food out of the child's mouth due to a lack of money ... when, on the other hand, every Thai person can come marry us in our country, get any job they want, get any education, buy any business, or any property, can send all of their money back to Thailand just because they want to ...since this consideration is very unfair, and since Thailand itself doesn't care a hoot about it's women or children ... why should we just apply our farang laws when it benefits any woman who had sex with a farang, and when they can basically win the lottery by getting a farang man's support???

Is it not widely known that you must follow the laws of the country you are visiting?? Don't some people visit Thailand due to the lack of laws, or the lack of enforcement, or both? Besides that many are coming specifically for cheap, paid for sex. If Thailand started advertising that all men would be tracked down and made to pay for any women who got pregnant, for any women who got sick as a result of having sex with them, I think tourism would go down quite a lot. Are all the women that get paid for having sex, expecting 20 years of support IF they get pregnant?? And if that was able to be enforced, don't you think the number of women having babies would go up significantly?

I think it is fine to have our standards in our country. Fine to hope for those standards everywhere, if you think they are better. But aren't all farangs here told, and ridiculed by long-timers, not to expect what we are used to?? Don't many of us come here just for that fact? In fact, the only law or standard I see that farangs want applied here, is to support some other farang's kid, by that farang that your new girl is telling you got her pregnant. Why don't you try to change the laws for girls here who have children with Thais? There are much more of them. Why don't you try to make the drunk driving laws be the same as we have in the west? Because you drink and drive and happily pay your 200 baht when caught but don't want to go to jail for 6 months? Hence, maybe the reason you are here helping to supprot this country. Because some laws suit you and some laws don't.

If we don't feel like we should be able to affect the visa laws, why should we be able to affect other laws that are much more potent for the whole population and not just our small group?

Personally, sorry, but I feel that if I can't own a business here, can't own a home here, can't get married and have full rights here, can't stay here more than 90 days, no matter what my visa, I don't really have to apply myself to a higher standard of law that doesn't even exist here, in regards to women, sex and children.

[GuestHouse]

Do try to separate your disagreement with Thailand's visa laws and your own conduct/morality - Two wrongs do not make a right.

As for your arguments on conforming to what (you believe) to be local standards.

Should we then take it that there is no immoral or even heinous act, by standards back home that you would find totally unacceptable to take part in if you found yourself in a country where such an act was not so much as frowned upon?

I take it there is (and that there are things you would find morally abhorrent anywhere regardless of the local custom).

If there is, then your argument that we should go along with (what you perceive to be) Thai morality when we are in Thailand amounts to an argument of convenience and I would add one of no substance.

Now it may not have been explained to you in the past, but arguments of convenience are not a good guide to correct, moral or even legal behavior.

[Jimjim]

She was drinking some sort of medicine so she'd abort the child? Well of course the baby has problems now. Way to go.

[realmadrid25]

suppose the mother is using the child simply to extort money from you. bynot giving in, who is hurt?, the mother? no, its the child who ends up hurt.

[madjbs]

Your kid is your kid even if the mother happened to accept some money around the time of impregnation. What difference does it make to the unlucky child? Dont they deserve the same as other children? The father should be contacted even if it was to just get the kid a UK passport which would be a massive bonus for her. Any decent guy should give a few thousand baht per month as well if you ask me.

That is if it can be proved it is his kid.

Edited September 11, 2007 by madjbs

[Daewoo]

Do try to separate your disagreement with Thailand's visa laws and your own conduct/morality

Exactly...

If we left it up to Law makers in ANY COUNTRY to tell us what is and isn't morally acceptable, we would be in a whole world of trouble...

In Saudi a woman can be jailed for being raped... morally acceptable??? It's the Law??? Letting MY child grow up without knowing me... morally acceptable??? not for me...

BTW, Thailand DOES have laws regarding child custody but orders of support are usually small and weakly enforced...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[coldcrush]

Hi

One of my Thai female friends had a brief encounter with an English man and this lead to her getting pregnant and having a child, a baby girl. Condom allegedly broke.

Now this woman has the responsibility of bringing up the little girl. She is ok with this, but the little kid had some medical problem and needed an operation which I ended up paying for.

Now I am thinking she should try to track down this guy and to ask him to assist with some of the costs.

I guess this sort of thing is rather common with all the sex that happens in Thailand. I feel sorry for the guy, as it was not planned, but an accident. But the poor woman has to bear the costs of bringing up this girl.

What can we do to try to track down this guy? I have a first and surname, approximate age, and he is supposed to be from London.

If we do track him down, and he refuses to help out, is there anything.

Thanks

Tom

<<email removed - against forum rules>>

Think Giro or rich.....I think the guy lives in a farm in Sakon....trollllllllllll (buy VW they are good runners)

Edited September 11, 2007 by coldcrush

[esbobes]

Your kid is your kid even if the mother happened to accept some money around the time of impregnation. What difference does it make to the unlucky child? Dont they deserve the same as other children? The father should be contacted even if it was to just get the kid a UK passport which would be a massive bonus for her. Any decent guy should give a few thousand baht per month as well if you ask me.

That is if it can be proved it is his kid.

You are right since the average Thai gives less than two thousand to care for a child the Farangs should give the same as a Thai not more.

Pemeber this is Thailand not EU or America.

[realmadrid25]

Your kid is your kid even if the mother happened to accept some money around the time of impregnation. What difference does it make to the unlucky child? Dont they deserve the same as other children? The father should be contacted even if it was to just get the kid a UK passport which would be a massive bonus for her. Any decent guy should give a few thousand baht per month as well if you ask me.

That is if it can be proved it is his kid.

You are right since the average Thai gives less than two thousand to care for a child the Farangs should give the same as a Thai not more.

Pemeber this is Thailand not EU or America.

I dont follow the 'this is Thailand' logic. You really wouldnt have any interest in playing a role in your child's life besides fulfilling your legal responsibilities? If you distrust the mother, perhaps you should seek sole custody of the child. If you do not want to have any business raising a child, perhaps you should be more selective in who you choose to sleep with.

[blizzard]

thinking it over, if girl spreads for munney she should be on some other kind of birth control method as a backup.

i pray some future girl of pleaure reeds this and learns...........or else this is all in vain.....lol.

Edited September 11, 2007 by blizzard

[kayo]

I think there are two or three different threads in here that need to be addressed.

Legal -

I would assume that UK law is similar to Australian law, where obligations are placed on the biological father regardless of circumstance. In fact, there are cases where DNA has proved that he isn't the biological father yet has still had to pay support after a break-up because the court has deemed fatherhood to be more than biological. Not sure if a 'non-citizen' of the country can file in the court of the fathers home country, but if they can he wouldn't have a way out.

My understanding is that Thai law is similar but is less frequently tested, and are far less biased towards the mother.

Moral -

This is completely up to the father and not really for anyone else to decide. I would hate to think that there is a child out there fathered by me who didn't know me. If this happened to me, I would definitely want to be involved with the child and want to make sure that the child was well looked after, but that is just me. The FATHER should be allowed to decide for himself what involvement he has. It doesn't appear he was a party to the decision to go forward with the birth (or to terminate) so he should be allowed to choose what he does afterwards.

The OP -

It is unclear if the OPs intention is to seek revenge on behalf of the girl, or to see that the child is looked after. I feel that knowing much of Thai society's attitude to sex it is unfair to pursue a 'good girl' unless you have some sort of honourable intention (i.e shouldn't take advantage of her). If she is more modern/western in her attitudes, then she is partially/equally responsible. I don't think that it is unreasonable for the OP t try and find the guy, but he should be discreet and only do it if that is what the mother wishes.

If the mother really is a friend, why not step up and become uncle tommurphy??? (as it would seem you already have) You might find it to be very rewarding (or heartbreaking).

Cheers,

Daewoo

Thanks for the replies.

The girl tells me she was enouraged to dinner with a few friends and some farang men. One took a liking to her and one thing lead to another. She also got some money out of this.

She did consider an abortion and tried drinking various medicines at the time which didn't work. She couldn't go through with getting the operation though.

The guy was a friend of a friend of a friend sort. She has sent word back via the friends, so he does know about the baby. She says friends will not give his number or address or even email. I guess he probably has doubts that it is his, so is reluctant to send money. She insists that it could only be his. His surname is "Stefan", which is not too common, and I do know the hotel he stayed at, The Landmark, but do not know the dates - but could work backwards 9 months.

Baby's name is Jessica and she was born in March 2007.

I realise that I don't know the full story from this woman - only parts.

Tom Murphy, I take it this is your OP (original post) /thread.

I'm glad you added some detail.

When I first saw this thread yesterday, I was somewhat concerned. I know, now that I am not involved in any way.

Daewoo, whom I've quoted here, has mentioned or clarified certain valid points/aspects of this story.

I'd like to add to this from personal experience - and the reason why I was briefly concerned, before you added certain facts that rule me out.

Nonetheless, this should eb considered as another scenario, possibilty.

I was with a thai lady for several years. Not a paid lady, just a lovely Thai lady.

The last time I saw her was early October, 2003.

I had lived in thailand, before, but at the time of this (part of the) story, I was in and out for a year or so, due to financial and family issues back home (europe).

We broke up, that October, due to various scenarios, some my bad, but also including the fact that she'd shacked up with another foreigner in my frequent absences.

Many months later, I found out through mutual friends, that a baby girl was born unto her. By the same said mutual friends, I have come to be as sure as possible that said baby girl is mine.

I was living in Kanchanaburi by then. I tried contacting her following this revelation, and we spoke, but nothing came of it. In fact, I agreed, upon her request, to leave the scenario alone.

She was with another European man who was looking after her and her daughter and my thinking at the time was that perhaps it's for the best - I wasn't ready to take on a family situation.

I lived to regret this many times over, as I wish to see this child of mine - my first - and do everything in my power to give her a happy life.

I have to this day not gotten over this entirely, but I did make a vow. I thought maybe in years to come, I could perhaps...

None of my mutual friends with her have heard anything from her since the Tsunami, and I've since lived with the idea that the worst happened to both my ex and our daughter.

This is why, when I saw your thread, I was momentarily taken aback.

Anyhow, this is about yoru story, but I thought I should add this as another possible scenario.

[crewcut]

My advise would be to steer clear, it sounds like your getting too involved (in my opinion). There are alot of very moral foreign men whos upbringing and morality would not let them walk away from this and you sound like a decent person. Be careful that your Thai friend does not start to make you feel too sorry for her as you may end up feeling responsible for her yourself. Some Thai women are masters of manipulation!

My advise stop looking for this guy, be a friend but don't get caught up in the situation too much.

[Prakanong]

if she Was even "working" then why she didnt have any other better method than a cheap condom?

sorry, i think is her foult and if the guy knows, n still he doesnt want to give her anything he is right. he was jut paying to have fun. was her mistake know to know how to protect her self, and if was not a sick baby but AIDS? then she will be probably dying, and that is worse.

Oh yes its all her fault and he bears no responsibility at all

Some of the replies make me laugh - the attitudes shown by some illustrate why a cetain segment of farang men are utter failures with women in their home countries and have had to run to Thailand to "Score" - only a sub-group but its so obvious!

[mr_hippo]

OP - First if all, why are you naming and putting details of the alleged father on the thread?

You paid for the baby's operation - what do you want from here? Brownie, points? Increased Karma? A whip-round?

"What can we do to try to track down this guy?". To which 'we' are you referring to? You and the mother or the thaivisa community? If it is the latter - vigilantes and lynch mobs are illegal!