How Rich Thais View Poor

[Scott]

Actually the treatment of one group in a society by other groups in a society isn't much different here than anywhere else. Hookers in Amsterdam and in Los Angeles suffer the same fate as those in Thailand on the social scale. (You might want to rewatch Pretty Woman or even Cinderella for a review of the social status issues).

Whether it's among the Mountain Gorillas or a chicken coop there is a social hierarchy. In a chicken coop there's one chicken that can peck all the other chickens and there's one that can't peck any. It's called the "pecking order." A pack of dogs or wolves are the same.

Throughout our written history and from much evidence of the most primitive of peoples, there are those whose status is higher than others.

In some countries the rights of those with the "least" amount of status is protected in the same way as those with the "most" social status and this may be some sort of yardstick to measure things by.

The other factor that we have that doesn't exist in the animal kingdom is money and this really upsets the apple cart, because a b/g does make more than a teacher or a nurse; she just may be able to go on a spending spree that is the envy of those higher up the social ladder. And this my friends, just p*sses some people off until there's no tomorrow.

It's a little like the negative remarks made her about people who drive Benz's.

[TAWP]

so you are saying no current Hi So families did not get their surname or whatever by being concubines or mistresses?

No -- I'm saying if you want to make a claim like that -- it's up to you to back it up with actual information -- you know -- that little detail that distinguishes real arguments from random bulls-?

We don't have to mention the book if it risks getting this thread closed, but we can mention family names and quotes I'm sure (so long as it's not the Royal family directly). Am I right?

Problem is that with Thai laws regarding slander it's not a civil case, it's a criminal offence! And it doesn't matter if you are telling the truth if it hurts someones image!

I rather not go to jail due to some poster not wanting to search or google for themselfs.

[canadiangirl]

I see prostitutes as human beings and certainly think they should be treated as such.

By the fact that I rarely see posters defend the dignity and rights of bargirls in other threads, I can't help but think that the offence some feel has less to do with altruistic concern for the social equality of bargirls and more about feeling judged in their own choice of mate and actions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see many of you (obviously I don't mean everyone on this thread) speaking up about the multitude of other social inequalities in Thailand -- should I feel impressed at your thirst for social justice when it seems largely reserved for those you'd like to f-?

The issue isn't that prostitutes are human beings or not -- of course they are. The issue is some people trying to elevate relationships based on prostitution into something that they are not, and injecting them into social contexts where they don't belong.

Edited September 20, 2007 by canadiangirl

[canadiangirl]

I rather not go to jail due to some poster not wanting to search or google for themselfs.

Oh, whatever -- if you're the one making the argument, it's for you to back it up. I can hardly be expected to make the effort to convince myself of your point of view.

[jumnien]

This must be the start of the holiday season with all these Christmas references - Ho, Ho, Ho.......!

[A_Traveller]

I rather not go to jail due to some poster not wanting to search or google for themselfs.

Oh, whatever -- if you're the one making the argument, it's for you to back it up. I can hardly be expected to make the effort to convince myself of your point of view.

Just to confirm here, under Thai law defamation is a criminal matter, not a civil case as in most other jurisdictions. It can and does have very serious ramifications, especially for a foreigner who is found guilty of defaming a Thai citizen. Whist so far no case has been brought on the basis of an internet board here, the present law could be construed so to do, and cases have been brought elsewhere.

Regards

PS I'm not taking a view as to the points raised herein just the legal reality in Thailand

Edited September 20, 2007 by A_Traveller

[TAWP]

I rather not go to jail due to some poster not wanting to search or google for themselfs.

Oh, whatever -- if you're the one making the argument, it's for you to back it up. I can hardly be expected to make the effort to convince myself of your point of view.

I see that you are unable to read too. I didn't make the argument. Check who posts what before you go off on a rant.

I only pointed out _why_ the info can't/shouldn't be posted here anyway.

[TheDon]

Hey I think im superior to everyone else.

Its human nature

[somtaamgaiyang]

Somtam - minimum respect for a hooker should be somewhat below a VIP customer treatment, don't you agree?

Tawp - it could have been an error of judgement. We assume that the girl in question was indeed a bar girl with her customer (or former customer, if you wish).

Hey, in a shop, business is business. It is not the job of the shop assistant to judge. I guess we have all seen "pretty woman" and cringed haven't we. A romantic story yes, but it is definitely not the job of the assistant to judge.

[Heng]

By and large, if we're talking about how the wealthy view the poor... whether here or anywhere else.... they are oblivious to their presence. How often do you think about the suffering thousands of people in the world who don't have enough to eat?

[ratchabuild]

I see prostitutes as human beings and certainly think they should be treated as such.

By the fact that I rarely see posters defend the dignity and rights of bargirls in other threads, I can't help but think that the offence some feel has less to do with altruistic concern for the social equality of bargirls and more about feeling judged in their own choice of mate and actions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see many of you (obviously I don't mean everyone on this thread) speaking up about the multitude of other social inequalities in Thailand -- should I feel impressed at your thirst for social justice when it seems largely reserved for those you'd like to f-?

Hahahahahah

The issue isn't that prostitutes are human beings or not -- of course they are. The issue is some people trying to elevate relationships based on prostitution into something that they are not, and injecting them into social contexts where they don't belong.

Yes yes yes

[WaiWai]

And Plus, you are missing one of the key aspects: Most people incorrectly assumes the girlfriend/wife is a LTGF.

How can one defend themselfs from this?

<deleted> is a LTGF (Long Term Girl Friend ?) and why is it such a ghastly slur ?

[dominique355]

Some people just don't get it. Gnarly Kitt's blog has nothing specifically Thai, except perhaps that the sales personnel was extremely polite, something you would never see in the West. (Remember "Pretty Woman"?).

Gnarly Kitt is a very intelligent, witty and also very courageous girl, frankly, I admire her.

Her views about that somewhat displaced bargirl in an expensive shop at the Emporium with a farang, who obviously was also out of his league (in more than one way) may not be joined by all, but, hey, it's her opinion and she is entitled to it.

Let's not destroy this last window of Freedom of Expresion left in this country, otherwise Gnarlykitt might have to really fight with this Minister, who brags about his gallant adventures in SG and his 45 Colt and at the same time censures web-site after web-site.

Most women in most countries look down on prostitutes, especially if their "profession" is too obvious. Would this girl in Emporium have dressed decently, nobody would have taken exception. But she is what she is and doesn't know any better.

As the French say: "Il faut de tout pour faire un monde".

Also, I cannot hold back on my opinion about prostitution. Making it illegal is the worst thing we can do, because this is what makes these girls vulnerable to exploitation. Make prostitution legal, but make pimps illegal, that would help.

Remember what brought organized crime to USA? To make alcohol illegal. Same with prostitution.

Edited September 20, 2007 by dominique355

[jumnien]

I thought the Irish arrived in America before Prohibition?

[BADBRAD]

Gnarly Kitt is a very intelligent, witty and also very courageous girl, frankly, I admire her.

Sorry, but I formed quite a different opinion from reading her blog.

[FarangNoi21]

Problem is a lot of the hi so families started of as whores.

An interesting claim.

Examples, please.

Read a bit of history

Concubines and courtesans and favourite mistreses - only with the guy for money was one of your definitions I beleive!

Which families?

So none of the current hi so's ancestors were not concubines or favourite mistresses?

Get real

I'm still waiting for examples. You seem to have more insults than cold hard facts.

canada, it looks like compliments went to your head. he made a great point and you are being silly.

[britmaveric]

The blogger comes from a really nice family though does she not?

Well thats a matter for debate - not sure being related to Thanom Kittikachorn is anything to brag about.

Edited September 20, 2007 by britmaveric

[britmaveric]

The issue is some people trying to elevate relationships based on prostitution into something that they are not, and injecting them into social contexts where they don't belong.

Who decides where something belongs?? Prostitution is a profession, like any other has no bearing on where you can go, what you do or how you can treat people. Once you accept this - you'll ultimately be a better person. BTW I think barristers are scum bags, so I don't think they should be allowed to mix with every day people either. (see how dangerous this line of thinking is???)

[AlexLah]

Who says students do not have sex?

Quote:

Youth

In a large survey among students in northern Thailand, 43 percent of women and nearly 50 percent men aged 15-21 reported that they had had sexual intercourse, and most of the sex had been unprotected.49 Another study among students aged 18-22 in Bangkok, showed that two-thirds of men and one-third of women reported being sexually active but condom use was only 6 percent.

More disturbing info can be found here:

http://www.soros.org/initiatives/health/fo...rs_20070125.pdf

I guess some people are living in a constant state of denial......

A bit of a long read so I think a lot of posters here will loose interest after reading 4 lines as they cannot be bothered....

Edited September 20, 2007 by AlexLah

[Alf Witt]

Most women in most countries look down on prostitutes, especially if their "profession" is too obvious. Would this girl in Emporium have dressed decently, nobody would have taken exception. But she is what she is and doesn't know any better.

So was the boutique she was in selling two different styles of clothes one style for "most women" and another style for prostitutes?

Does no one detect an element of jealousy on the part of the author and perhaps a teeny little bit of exageration? Did the encounter really happen or did she just dream it up?

The author reminds me of a very true observation; "If you think you have class, you don't".

[JimmyCA]

Acquiesce,

Your missus is definately a looker.

Nice one

looks like a fish

lol, it is a strange picture

you changed the pic, yes?

Now she looks Japaneese. Never get bored with her, like having a new look every day.

[Alf Witt]

The girl blogger said out loud that the couple were basically an eyesore. You don't have to be rich to think that...just as many lower class Thais and farangs would have thought the same.

But you personally have to be pretty crass to publish it.

[canadiangirl]

The issue is some people trying to elevate relationships based on prostitution into something that they are not, and injecting them into social contexts where they don't belong.

Who decides where something belongs?? Prostitution is a profession, like any other has no bearing on where you can go, what you do or how you can treat people. Once you accept this - you'll ultimately be a better person. BTW I think barristers are scum bags, so I don't think they should be allowed to mix with every day people either. (see how dangerous this line of thinking is???)

Thanks for your wonderful advice about being a better person. I'll be sure to follow it.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. There are people, and then there are roles/jobs. Prostitution is a job. It's not prostitutes as people, who don't belong somewhere -- outside of work, any of them have other "roles" as well: mother, daughter, friend, they have hobbies -- whatever. It's prostitutes in their function as prostitutes who don't really belong everywhere. In her role as a mother, say -- it would make perfect sense for this woman to go pick up her daughter from school -- but when she's working, it doesn't make sense for a man interviewing as a teacher to bring her to his interview! The issue isn't "she's not allowed to set foot in the school" -- it's that it really doesn't make sense for her to be there in the context of her job.

Frankly, if the concept of "bringing obvious prostitutes to every social occasion might not be the best of plans" needs any more explanation than this, I don't know what to say.

Edited September 20, 2007 by canadiangirl

[canadiangirl]

canada, it looks like compliments went to your head. he made a great point and you are being silly.

Go to my head? Naw -- I'm used to it.

It might be a "great point" if he could back it up. I'm open to believing him if he could name some examples. But he can't.

Am I the only one who cares about facts? Why in the world would I believe random claims by strangers on the internet that aren't even backed up by facts? What then distinguishes something that is true from random bull-? Sorry, that doesn't fly.

But really -- what if some hi-so families had prostitutes in their family tree 10 generations ago? What does that really change? Does that take away the right to find certain things about people distasteful now? If you go back far enough, we all have monkeys in our family tree. :D

[solo siam]

If you go back far enough, we all have monkeys in our family tree.

With some people its obviously not very far back at all.

[kankaroo]

My ex BG would go all shy, quiet and frightened when having to speak to a so called higher class Thai lady, the difference in England is working class males would quite happily break the jaw of a Toff if he in anyway tried to show he was superior.

Besides the Old Guard Aristocracy and the working class in England have a mutual respect and are basically the same....they are all criminals.

I do hope that is supposed to be a joke...........

[kankaroo]

BTW Don't go slagging little kitty off !!

Don't you know the hel_l that poor girl had to go through choosing the correct designer bag for her VAIO ?? Shame on you all !

At least the Emporium has toilets at the checkouts now so she can spout out her shi*e while buying her shoes.

[meemiathai]

I am only concerned if kitty makes a good toilet.

[BADBRAD]

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. There are people, and then there are roles/jobs. Prostitution is a job. It's not prostitutes as people, who don't belong somewhere -- outside of work, any of them have other "roles" as well: mother, daughter, friend, they have hobbies -- whatever. It's prostitutes in their function as prostitutes who don't really belong everywhere. In her role as a mother, say -- it would make perfect sense for this woman to go pick up her daughter from school -- but when she's working, it doesn't make sense for a man interviewing as a teacher to bring her to his interview! The issue isn't "she's not allowed to set foot in the school" -- it's that it really doesn't make sense for her to be there in the context of her job.

Frankly, if the concept of "bringing obvious prostitutes to every social occasion might not be the best of plans" needs any more explanation than this, I don't know what to say.

A few flaws in your reasoning;

1) As far as I know, and I have been wrong before, when a prostitute is "working" or serving her "function" as you put it, she is engaged in the sexual act. Did I miss the part where Hello Kitty said this couple was having sex in the store?

2) Unless Miss Kitty actually asked this woman what her proffesion was how can we assume she was an "obvious prostitute?"

3) Even if she WAS a prostitute and she WAS working at the time, who the h.ll are you or Hello freaking Kitty to determine where she "belongs?"

[chuchok]

You can say that Thais flaunt their mia nois, but being a mia noi is absolutely not the same as being a whore.

Wholesale versus retail?

Mia noi is a relationship with all that it entails. Prostitution is anything but a relationship.

I'm not saying you can't have a relationships with prostitutes, but the interesting thing is - once people think that it IS a relationship, they stop thinking about their partners as whores and get mightily offended if others continue to do so.

what dross.You are talking about your opinion.Certainly not fact IMO.

You are playing on semantics, unless you want to go way back and talk about when Thais had a real legal "minor wife".

The two Thais that I know that have "Mia noi" used to treat them well,but they were kept on the pay roll for one thing...shagging.Pure and simple.Define that???ohhh They must be prostitutes then.

I suppose in your eyes,it is ok to flaunt your prozzie if she has light coloured skin,is well educated and dresses accordingly?

I just love it when people make assumptions ......rich or poor.