Is Yours Bigger Than You Thought It Was...?

[fletchsmile]

We recently found that our condo is about 1-2 m2 bigger than when we signed the contract. Thai contracts usually have a clause that if the final measurement ends up higher or lower the price is adjusted.

This is obviously open to abuse. I mean how can you check on say 130m2? Condos aren't usually a simple rectangle shape. I just read on another couple of threads other people have experienced this.

Anyone else had the same experience, and what did you do?

Anyone found out their's was smaller so paid less?

I'd like to think it was 50/50. Tho' I wouldn't be surprised if it rarely turns out smaller

[backflip]

"We recently found that our condo is about 1-2 m2 bigger than when we signed the contract. This is obviously open to abuse."

You've posted the same stuff in another thread. I guess you have nothing else to do. Your condo is very slightly bigger than you expected, and I'm not sure why you'd consider that to be abusive.

[chownah]

If a contract calls for price adjustment based on final measurements then it is really important to see in the contract how the measurement is made.....if the contract does not specify how the measurement is made then it is likely that the method will be manipulated to benefit the developer.

Since you have already signed the contract and it is now time to pay up the best you can do is to first look at the contract and see how the original estimate of unit size was made (the basis for claiming that you were buying a 70 sq. m. unit) and how the final measurements are to be carried out......then.....go measure your unit yourself or hire someone to do it. If there is not explanation of how to measure for the final unit size determination then you might try haggling over the extra payment...or just save time and just hire a lawyer.....or just save even more time and just pay the extra amount....I guess.

I'm wondering if your contract is unusual in this respect because no one has ever mentioned this issue here before that I've seen and I would think that it would have been discussed if it was a part of most contracts.

Just a further note....if the developer influenced the contractor to change some detail of construction it is possible to make all the hallways narrower and all the rooms wider...this would enable the developer to get ALOT of extra money from the buyers by providing them with oversized units and undersized common areas. If your apartment is bigger than expected perhaps you should measure the common areas to see if they are smaller than the original plans specified.....if so then you should claim a reduction in price because of the diminishment of the common amenities....I guess.

Chownah

Edited September 27, 2007 by chownah

[quiksilva]

The terms are fairly typical, look out for terms like "subject to final measurement".

BTW My house was about 3/4 square wah smaller than originally described. So Sansiri adjusted our price accordingly.

[fletchsmile]

"We recently found that our condo is about 1-2 m2 bigger than when we signed the contract. This is obviously open to abuse."

You've posted the same stuff in another thread. I guess you have nothing else to do. Your condo is very slightly bigger than you expected, and I'm not sure why you'd consider that to be abusive.

Backflip,

More a case of didn't want to hijack someone else's thread, and take it in another direction. As an after thought posting on there I wondered if it was a trend.

Our case means around 150k extra plus a few other complications. Didn't say it was abusive, but I did say it could be open to abuse and difficult to prove. Would have thought a sharp guy like yourself you'd spot the risk. Seems people like Chownah are much sharper than you, as well as more useful. Perhaps read the posts above. i.e. What would be to stop developers regularly saying condos are over? to gain a little extra 1% or so revenue; or keeping quiet when they are under, to avoid receiving less.

BTW Not so much a case of nothing to do. Any chance of paying THB 150k less is worth a few minutes to post, on TV. Curious tho', what's your excuse for reading the same post, and then even bothering to comment on it when you've nothing of value to add. How do the sayings go: "When you point a finger don't forget there are usually three fingers pointing back at yourself." "Kettles, pots, black..."

No doubt the Backflip's next flippant response is why I'm bothering to reply to you. Answer: I don't want you undermining the credibility of my question. I've got THB 150k at stake...

Edited September 27, 2007 by fletchthai68

[fletchsmile]

Chownah and Quicksilva. Thanks for the posts. Food for thought. Some perspective and constructive as always.

[PattayaParent]

The dimensions and overall m2 area are stated on the Chanot registered at the land office.

Don't konw though whether the Land Office send someone to measure each unit or just take the word of the developer?

I would imaging that they'd at least want the building plans to check measurements as they wouldn't want anyone to avoid paying the correct taxes?

[backflip]

If your happy retirement is based on the 150K THB, I predict your retirement filled will be filled with despair and frustration. You undoubtedly believe in the adage "you get what you pay for". However, restating this as "you pay for what you get" has you absolutely flummoxed, annoyed, angry, and confused.

bingobongo complained that a condo development that he had no intention of buying, was smaller than advertised. You're complaining that the condo you bought was bigger than you thought. I had no idea there were so many opportunities to complain in Bangkok.

[ProThaiExpat]

In the West, condos are measured from the center of the demising walls. The developer will not "eat" the space between your wall surface and that of your neighbor.

Interesting to see if they specify the point from which measurements are taken. Having demolished walls in condos before, it is quite common for the wall erectors to mis-measure where the wall is located, and if the wall is between units, one unit will be larger than designed and the adjoining one smaller. Ceiling height is also a factor as you are buying "volume" and a ceiling installed lower than called for in the plans is a major disadvantage to those who want ceiling height to give the impression of spaciousness.

[backflip]

"In the West, condos are measured from the center of the...walls."

In the US, free-standing homes are also measured in the same manner. A spec'd 12' x 12' room , for example, would be 11'7" (+/-) square.

[fletchsmile]

If your happy retirement is based on the 150K THB, I predict your retirement filled will be filled with despair and frustration. You undoubtedly believe in the adage "you get what you pay for". However, restating this as "you pay for what you get" has you absolutely flummoxed, annoyed, angry, and confused.

bingobongo complained that a condo development that he had no intention of buying, was smaller than advertised. You're complaining that the condo you bought was bigger than you thought. I had no idea there were so many opportunities to complain in Bangkok.

Mate if you were funny you'd be a joke. Do you enjoy wrtiting utter garbage? I didnt mention anything about retiring. It's not a complaint as you mention, but a request for more info/ or advice. You've added a whole host of emotions which you've also plucked out of thin air. I can only assume these statements relate to your own feelings on life, as they're nothing to do with my post. As you suggested earlier, it seems you've nothing better to do. If you'd actually understood the post you'd realise there's a chance I think I might not be getting what I'm asked to pay for. You've proved yourself incapable of understanding the topic or of giving any advice. Perhaps check out if there's a children's section on TV for something a little easier to understand for you. Thanks for bumping the post anyway. There's usually something positive, however small in most things.

Hope life picks up for you soon.

Simply put I could be down 150k. It could be a scam, or could be genuine. I'm interested in advice/opinions/solutions.

Edited September 29, 2007 by fletchthai68

[fletchsmile]

I was intending to discuss with the developer anyway, but thought it would be useful to get some ideas/ plans first. Always better to go in prepared with a few facts.

The 2 main problems that remain are:

1) I might have to pay more - about THB 150k

2) This takes the property value above 10mio. As such we can only now borrow 70% of the value, whereas before we were originally looking to borrow more (85%-90%). Our financing is at good rate, and in THB so also matches the currency exposures, i,e THB condo asset with THB loan. Plus it addresses some of the country risks.

If we can't sort out both, it means an extra THB 150k to pay, plus another couple of million THB cashflow up front, and bringing money in from outside Thailand, to compensate for the lower borrowing amount.

Will see how discussions go, and if I can get plans/ check measurements. Hopefully there aren't too many curved bits where I need to go back to schoolday mathematics and integration/for calculating area under curves

So thanks to everyone for input.

Edited October 1, 2007 by fletchthai68