Beef Prices

[Joe Walshe]

we bought 10 cattle some years ago for 200,000 approx. Have been growing our own forage and feeding them for past 5 years approx. Mother in law recently went to sell two. Price offered two weeks ago was 20,000 for two. Price offered yesterday was 18,000 for two. That's a huge loss before you even allow for the time and effort spent feeding them. Fortunately they have produced a few calves in the past few years.

It seems 5 or so years ago lots of easrn farmers got into cattle (encouraged by Govt.) and now supply exceeds demand. However, the price of beef, at butchers, in the local market has gone up.

ANy ideas on what we should do much appreciated.

Our farm is in Chumphae, Khon Kaen.

We live in Ireland now and Mother in law takes care of things. Plan to retire there later.

Joe

[seppl04]

we bought 10 cattle some years ago for 200,000 approx. Have been growing our own forage and feeding them for past 5 years approx. Mother in law recently went to sell two. Price offered two weeks ago was 20,000 for two. Price offered yesterday was 18,000 for two. That's a huge loss before you even allow for the time and effort spent feeding them. Fortunately they have produced a few calves in the past few years.

It seems 5 or so years ago lots of easrn farmers got into cattle (encouraged by Govt.) and now supply exceeds demand. However, the price of beef, at butchers, in the local market has gone up.

ANy ideas on what we should do much appreciated.

Our farm is in Chumphae, Khon Kaen.

We live in Ireland now and Mother in law takes care of things. Plan to retire there later.

Joe

just keep the cattle, if you don't need to sell

typical "Pig Cycle" now everyone who bought before has to sell as money is needed and thus 5 years from now there is more demand than supply so prices will be up

besides you will have more cattle through more calves

the beef price in the local market is up, as Butchers and Traders drink more Lao Khao than before

Edited September 29, 2007 by seppl04

[soundman]

Irrespective of the markets, this sounds typical of Thai traders.

Market is always bullish when you want to buy, & always bearish when trying to sell.

If you want to sell, be patient & find your own buyers.....

[C-sip-degree]

we bought 10 cattle some years ago for 200,000 approx. Have been growing our own forage and feeding them for past 5 years approx. Mother in law recently went to sell two. Price offered two weeks ago was 20,000 for two. Price offered yesterday was 18,000 for two. That's a huge loss before you even allow for the time and effort spent feeding them. Fortunately they have produced a few calves in the past few years.

It seems 5 or so years ago lots of easrn farmers got into cattle (encouraged by Govt.) and now supply exceeds demand. However, the price of beef, at butchers, in the local market has gone up.

ANy ideas on what we should do much appreciated.

Our farm is in Chumphae, Khon Kaen.

We live in Ireland now and Mother in law takes care of things. Plan to retire there later.

Joe

Hey Joe,

Sorry to say but I think you paid too much for the original 10.

Especially buying them some years ago.

Anyway what’s new in the ‘LOS’ sounds like you’re disappointed. (Totally understand)

But even with the original ten at this price what’s gone wrong may I ask given a healthy birth rate over five years?

18 for two don’t sound right but if it was my in-laws “in there hay days” they would be saying the same thing and putting the rest in there pockets. But due to the time factor one now has past RIP and the other has run out of tricks to play.

We work around 12 -15 for one dirty old Isaan beef cow short leg, short ear, crooked horn, with calf or pregnant.

I’m not sure if you mean this in your post when you say two or are you talking about new born calves less than 18months old. I’m thinking that your meaning two from the original herd now 5 plus, plus, years old. ‘Correct’

When you’re talking about local markets prices you’re meaning if it did fall off the back of the truck it doesn’t matter anyway, it’s still for sale right.

So what to do!! (farm some-ware else preferably another country)

Or keep the business running even thou you know that you loose money, your in over your head already so why bother to stop the pump running.

Start drinking more lao-kaaw preferably morning afternoon and night, get the leech fishing down pat ‘those nets can be thrown by a round eye’ rat hunting during the night, frog hunting during the down pours and then the price of cows or even the cows won’t really become interesting anymore.

Don’t forget folks, cut beef into small strips sun dry your market beef for two to three days via the old tin roof method once completed heat up the frying pan with small amount of cooking oil place a handful of meat in to this and fry for 3-5minutes remove and drain oil add a pinch of salt and there you have it, last but not least one hand full of the sticky.

Regards

C-sip

[slapout]

The buyers for old cows (10 to 12 year) will be limited as about all they are good for is butchering and meat is not prime by a long ways. We usually cull the cows at this age even though they may have additional calves. Milk production drops, harder to concive, and just not as forage effecient as younger cows. Saying this, I have kept some up to 14 years and they did a good job of raiseing calves, but this was the the exception. In that other world, prime breeding cow may sell for 7 to 800.00 dollar if she was bred back (4 to 5 yr. old) at the same time packers (old cows) would only bring 40 to 50 cents per pound, if market was strong. Until I came here, I had never saw cattle handled like they do here, make house for them, take out each morning, no mineral blocks, cutting bull calves is not consistent, etc. The prices for cattle here seems to be a number they pull out of the air depending on what they want to buy at that time. I tried to talk to a local about buying cows and he knew where to go, price, etc. until I mentioned a vet doing pregency check, mouthing them and checking for sickness, then he just faded away into the sunset. I am referring to beef cattle, not dairy cows for your info.

[Joe Walshe]

Appreciate comments boys and girls.

Talking to missus and it seems in our naivity we bought sub standard cattle at a time when prices were high. Good quality cattle, I am told, were selling at from 50,000 up. Seems like big bucks to me. My in laws want to sell what we have and buy one or two quality coattle (more expensive) from which to produce better quality calves. The logic being, it takes the same effort to feed and look after old poor quality cattle as good quality cattle. But the good qulaity cow will always be worth more and produce valuable off spring.

Aways interested to hear from others with cattle - non dairy.

[chownah]

Joe Walshe,

Does your family know good cattle from pussycats? Seems like they didn't help you avoid your first mistep. Some people think the long eared brahma cattle are good cattle but no one seems to know what they are good for. One of my neighbors says that there is no need to pay more than 7,000 baht for a cow and that anyone who pays more does so becasue they don't know how to tell a good cow from a bad one so they think that if they pay more this will make up for their lack of knowledge....and it doesn't. Personally....I don't know cattle from pussycats and will admit it...many Thais seem to have a more difficult time realising and admitting their lack of knowledge.

Chownah

[ozzydom]

Appreciate comments boys and girls.

Talking to missus and it seems in our naievity we bought sub standard cattle at a time when prices were high. Good quality cattle, I am told, were selling at from 50,000 up. Seems like big bucks to me. My in laws want to sell what we have and buy one or two quality cottle (more expensive) from which to produce better quality calves. The logic being, it takes the same effort to feed and look after old poor quality cattle as good quality cattle. But the good quality cow will always be worth more and produce valuable off spring.

Aways interested to hear from others with cattle - non dairy.

Hate to say it Joe but your a sucker for punishment and getting fed B*#^<deleted>. Good quality Brahman cow either in calf or ready for insemination with Charolaise beef seman should be no more than 20-25k and that is a really top cow.

Charolaise cross beef cattle sell for 50-52 baht per kg over the scales, most growers buy these at anything up to 400-450 kg live weight then fatten them to 800 odd kg before sale to slaughterhouse, your profit is the amount of weight you put on the animal from purchase.

[C-sip-degree]

Appreciate comments boys and girls.

Talking to missus and it seems in our naievity we bought sub standard cattle at a time when prices were high. Good quality cattle, I am told, were selling at from 50,000 up. Seems like big bucks to me. My in laws want to sell what we have and buy one or two quality cottle (more expensive) from which to produce better quality calves. The logic being, it takes the same effort to feed and look after old poor quality cattle as good quality cattle. But the good quality cow will always be worth more and produce valuable off spring.

Aways interested to hear from others with cattle - non dairy.

Hate to say it Joe but your a sucker for punishment and getting fed B*#^<deleted>. Good quality Brahman cow either in calf or ready for insemination with Charolaise beef seman should be no more than 20-25k and that is a really top cow.

Charolaise cross beef cattle sell for 50-52 baht per kg over the scales, most growers buy these at anything up to 400-450 kg live weight then fatten them to 800 odd kg before sale to slaughterhouse, your profit is the amount of weight you put on the animal from purchase.

Ozzydom,

What would you put a dollar value on this heifer then.

[C-sip-degree]

And this one.

[C-sip-degree]

Any idea's on $BHT here also, ive put one in to help out Chownah.

[Joe Walshe]

c-sip,

Nice photos of cows. Wife and I looking at them. Out of curiosity, how much did you pay and what are they worth now?

[Nomad97]

My mother-in-law tried to sell some of her cows last week and was only offered 6,000 baht per cow. She had paid 12,000 baht per cow a couple of years ago. Seems like the price for a cow is pretty low at the moment. For sure, raising cattle is not worth the effort put into gathering feed/grass each day. I have told her to sell all her cattle regardless of the price. Too much like hard work at her age in life.

[slapout]

Joe; The old ranchers felt the bull was the seceret to good beef cattle breeding, they would run average mixed breed cows and put some top bulls with them and its was amazing to see the top quality calves that were produced. A good polled bull, used on the cows normally found here, will knock horns off of calves from horned cows, add size to the calf compared to its mother, add meat to the frame, etc. This is assumeing that a good type of bull is used (being polled is not a guarentee of this of course) The Thai govt. brought in some top bulls from Europe and Aust. a few years back to upgrade the Thai strain, do not know if this service is still around of not. The photo for chownah looks kind of like a grouchey Garfield, the bulls pictured would go good with some good crossbreed cows, I have never liked beef cattle with a hump and drooping ears, not enough meat to go on the table, just a personal thought, but worth dollars when you sell to feed lots.

[ozzydom]

C-sip,thats a fine looking beast on top, a pretty heifer as the locals here call them, my next door neighbour sold a similar one with calf at foot for 35k.Until its in calf its real value is uncertain,my mate down your way had a similar heifer but a few failures to get her in calf meant he got next to nothing for her.

If its your heifer ,its condition is a credit to you.

The bulls look more indu-brazilian , a .local here just imported 2 for over a million apiece.

Oh for the sight of a few Angus standing in clover up to their bellies.

[C-sip-degree]

Ozzydom, Joe

Thank you.

Yes the two heifers are mine.

35K would be a good price to acquire with calf. 'If available'

I booked them @ 5 months old and received them @ 8 months old from SO-SO in Roi-et with paper's he wouldn’t budge on 45K each. (Including delivery and free vet checks if necessary for four months there after) This was quite surprising as the vet did arrive out twice to the house during this period.

Paying too much for cows is easy to do in LOS trust me I know, it’s tuff I’m not sure if it even helps having a family elder cut the deal, which in my case is a ‘simple no way’

I prefer now to get a phone number and call them at a later date, wife and me would then head over too there farm for a chat, auctions are crazy times but good fun some days @ Yaso or Roi-et sale experience mainly.

If you’re buying cheap beef-er stick with the concept of buy, fatten, sell, keep well under the 15K mark with calf if pos, Agree.

The bulls are defiantly not mind (but soon) AI has taken on the girls (Super Black)

(Pet-Nin) straw used.

Your looking at the legendary Shar-lam @ Khon Kaen

Boy Ubon blood line@ Khon Kaen

Pet-nin @ Roi-et

These are only a handful of Big Stud Bulls around and yes there priced @ more than one or two or three new vehicle in the Kingdom.

Ozzydom nice to see we are at least in the same ball-park.

Cheers,C-sip

[ozzydom]

C-sip , as with most agricultural pursuits here in Los , its pretty hard to turn a profit and cattle are no exception.

Fattening, and selling to Thai-French at Sakhon Nakhon (charolaise) seems to at least have some stability to it as you have fixed buying and selling price based on live weight + bonus for carcase meat and fat content , you at least know you are going to receive a set price per kilo for every kg you put on the beast.

Cost of feeding a charolaise fattener in feed lot is about 14k per year.

Another chap breeds charolaise to on sell as weaners or yearlings to the fattening market, in both cases profit ,with careful management seems to be about 10%.

A small herd of good quality cows churning out good beef breed fatteners to sell would be probably my choice,at least if the calf market is depressed you have the option of beefing them up yourself.

cheers

[visionary]

If there is one thing that kills farmers it is there exaggerated sense of rugged individualism.Over the years I couldn't begin to guess how many times beef and pork producers have complained to me about how they've been robbed by slaughterhouse buyers.Prices of meat on the shelf often rocket while prices on the hoof are plummetting. I once met a Calgary millionaire cattleman that made his fortune on less than 200 cattle. When he recognised the discrepancy between prices on the hoof and prices on the shelf, he rented a small butcher shop, hired a butcher and marketted his beef as a finished product through his own store. His success story could be duplicated by small producers forming coops to do the same thing. Coop members whose product doesn't meet the standard can be quickly educated to higher , more efficient standards by members wanting to maintain standards that obtain the greatest value and customer loyalty.

[fruity]

The photos are of Indu Brazils, good ones too, the bulls pictured worth a fortune, the white heifer is good & has got to be worth in the 100k-plus bracket, depending on her size, which is difficult to judge from a photo, breeding etc. Saw one similar sold recently for 500k.

It is obvious that Joe paid well over the odds for his cattle, which I assume are just the usual very mediocre small native type.

I cannot get my head around WHY people keep tribes of these mis-fits, which are usually, due to keeping more than can be looked after properly, undersized, full of worms & undernourished, a stirk (weaned calf) being worth tops 4,000 baht?

I keep good Indu brazils as in the photo's. I can keep one cow, produce one calf, that is worth more money than twenty-plus of the type we see running around everywhere. We have just refused enough money to clear out the local cattle market for a 10 week old bull calf. NO BULL:)

[JungleBiker]

Can any of you cattle rearing gentlemen tell me what documents are required (if any) when trading cattle, for example any health certificate, tax document, etc? Also who issues the document(s), what is the fee, etc. The reason I ask is because in Laos many different documents are required from many different offices at village, district and provincial levels. Someone has asked me what documents are required in Thailand (I assume it is much less complicated).

Thanks.

JB.

[MrSquigle]

Anyone had any experience with importing from Oz or US ??

[Issangeorge]

Can any of you cattle rearing gentlemen tell me what documents are required (if any) when trading cattle, for example any health certificate, tax document, etc? Also who issues the document(s), what is the fee, etc. The reason I ask is because in Laos many different documents are required from many different offices at village, district and provincial levels. Someone has asked me what documents are required in Thailand (I assume it is much less complicated).

Thanks.

JB.

JungleBiker, for the trade of normal Thai cows, which is all I have done, no documents at all are needed, or if they are nobody pays attention to them. I don't know about the higher priced cattle. Issangeorge.

[JungleBiker]

Can any of you cattle rearing gentlemen tell me what documents are required (if any) when trading cattle, for example any health certificate, tax document, etc? Also who issues the document(s), what is the fee, etc. The reason I ask is because in Laos many different documents are required from many different offices at village, district and provincial levels. Someone has asked me what documents are required in Thailand (I assume it is much less complicated).

Thanks.

JB.

JungleBiker, for the trade of normal Thai cows, which is all I have done, no documents at all are needed, or if they are nobody pays attention to them. I don't know about the higher priced cattle. Issangeorge.

Thanks for your reply George.