Bye Bye Thailand

[Prakanong]

Good luck with whatever you go and do, Thailand is certainly not for everyone ..

Absolutely true. Thailand isn't for everyone. One must find where they belong to and happy with. Abviously you have found Thailand is not for you and get on going back home where you feel your choices/chances there. Wish you luck. I am happy to hear one said they know what they want and don't just stuck in a place or doing something hoping thing will get better and it won't. Come back to Thailand for vacation! it's better that way. Don't just leave LOS for good. We still have lots to offer!

Exactly - while it may not be the place to build a career or business for many to abandon it altogether seems a bit drastic altough I know a few who do feel that way.

I worked there 8 years ago and it did not really work out as I envisaged - partly dowen to me and partly down to the system there but thats by the by.

Took me 9 months to go back but since then I have visited 20-25+ times. I could be working there again now if i had wanted but kept the role positioned where it was meant to be - in Regional HQ in Singapore. Currently I find it more cinducive to my wants and needs to live and work in Singapore but I do vacation in Thailand (and other Asian countries too as Thailand is not the only place to be)

[Juzrelax]

I think it's all got to do with money. If you have a good job in Thailand that your making some good coin from & that you enjoy doing your laughing.

I only stayed in Thailand for 4 months doing the English teacher thing. It was a good expierience & I love the country, but at the end of the day I felt like I was not getting anywhere. The whole point of things to be moving forward in one way or another, and doing what I was doing was not getting me anywhere.

I am back in Australia now and I will begin a new job next week making more than the previous position I held here.

All of that being said I do miss Thailand and I will be back for Songkran next year. If I make the decition to live in Thailand in the future I will do things properly by getting a degree here & having investments ect.

In my opinion, if you want to live in Thailand you need to set yourself up properly for it, don't do it half assed. There's nothing worse than sitting in a great place with many things to do and not having the finances to do anything!

The major thing I miss about Thailand is the people, most people are cool and really laid back. I went out here last Saturday night and many of the blokes were just looking for a fight trying to make a name for themselves. I have no time for these morons anymore. At least it's a good deterrant to going out.

Anyway, I will look forward to my next trip back! Good luck to all of you in all of your endevours!

[PhilHarries]

The decision to quit Thailand after 12 years was taken out of my hands as I was "finished". I had some money so I hang around for 18 months taking a gap year more because I couldn't face going back to the UK than anything else. When I eventually bit the bullet I found, much to my surprise, I quite enjoyed it back "home" and that was even though I was on the dole (jobless). After nine months fruitless jobseeking I finally got my first contract and started on the road back. One thing the whole experience taught me is that there is no such thing as a permanent postion. Ignoring the things we cannot influence we are all subject to change and what makes us happy today may not do so tomorrow. My biggest mistake was that I didn't recognise I'd reached that point of change and I needed to get out of Thailand. Some people do manage to recognise these points in their lives and make, often quite minor, adjustments.

Anyhow, 3 1/2 years on and I'm back in S.E. Asia and, ironically, doing a hel_l of a lot better than if I'd remained in my original position in Thailand. Would I go back? Yes, but only on my own terms and that's what I'm working towards.

Best of luck to the OP and any others in a similar position now or in the future. Life and the world are bigger than Thailand and you've only one shot at it.

[PeaceBlondie]

Is it tragic that we are comparing life in Thailand as an expat, with Cambodia and the Dominican Republic, for goodness' sake? Yes, and Mexico is looking better every week, to me, who's lived there longterm previously. However, Nicaragua/ElSalv/Guat/Hond would be a stretch too far by a long shot.

My view is unique, as a gay, elderly (ouch! I hate that term) American who can teach English anywhere, but can't teach it legally here in spite of being qualified. Your mileage will surely vary.

[GuestHouse]

Anyhow, 3 1/2 years on and I'm back in S.E. Asia and, ironically, doing a hel_l of a lot better than if I'd remained in my original position in Thailand. Would I go back? Yes, but only on my own terms and that's what I'm working towards.

I think it is true to say PH that you and I see exactly eye to eye on that matter.

And I would add, not are you only doing a lot better financially, which I am delighted to hear, but neither are you included in the comment I made earlier....

And I also meet with friends, working in the office I worked in, who are hanging on to their job, keeping their head down, trying to blend in with the wall paper, scared of loosing their job.

Outside of Thailand, they can have the pick of many oportunities, at home and overseas.

[Sanpatong]

My view is unique, as a gay, elderly (ouch! I hate that term) American

Which term of those three?

Anyway, it's interesting. The OP is saying he wants to leave because Thailand is getting more strict. MY primary reason for leaving would be that Thailand is by FAR not strict enough on just about anything.

I guess if you think Thailand is getting too strict then time to move down the ladder.. Cambodia, or some other basket-case failed country

[TAWP]

To the last farang who leaves Pattaya:

Please remember to turn off the lights.

The irony is that even if they ruled that all VISAs for Thailand would be invalid and void there would still be thousands of farangs in Pattaya, completely oblivious to the fact since they are happily overstaying or dodging the cops as it is.

You can never make it harder for the criminals by being harder on the law abiding.

[FarangNoi21]

..... I can speak thai but will always be a farang and never fully accepted, ...

I think that is one of the biggest downfalls for people here... trying to be accepted into Thai society. It's probably the equivalent of trying to swim up a waterfall. The people I know who are happiest here, accept they will never really be accepted and just live life as they see fit.

Real happiness is inside you - and better given than received.

i like the fact that i will always be a farang. it makes things a lot easier.

[bulmercke]

I moved to Cambodia a year ago and I've never been happier. Friendlier people, not xenophobic, easier visas (1 year biz visa $260 no questions asked, come right in and enjoy)

Magnificent.

You obviously don't know Cambodia very well.

Whilst there a few years ago, my wife was subjected to obvious, deliberate and needless racist behaviour and comments from Cambodians. (She's Thai.)

The enmity and animosity that exists between Thailand and Cambodia is REAL.

duchovny - no disrespect - but you won't experience this racism and xenophobia if you're a westerner there.

[mamanoodle]

As a relative newbie to Thailand (8 years ago first hol), but lived here now 2 yrs(retired), have always been aware of ongoing changes to anything and everything relating to visas etc for long term life here, retired so maybe easier, hubby also farang, maybe not. We have a much better lifestyle here, our monies go a lot further and rumours, adjustments and changes to the visa regulations, at this present time do not bother us in the least. Apart from this thread there are others which slag off Thailand re laws, cleanliness, services etc from people who now reside here longterm. 'Scuse me but do these people not plan in advance, they put names in a hat to decide 'where shall we live for the rest of our lives', I do not think so. We came to live here after many visits,and decided warts and all Pattaya was the place, we came here not with eyes wide shut but fully aware of the ever changing everything here. Best of luck to the OP in when back in the UK, I think he may need it, but that is only my opinion.

[FarangNoi21]

which laws exactly are driving you guys crazy?

if you are married, just go and get a 1 year multi entry from Singapore.

if you are a tourist, just do a visa run every 90 days. whats the big deal?

[Penkoprod]

if you are a tourist, just do a visa run every 90 days. whats the big deal?

Trouble is, hasnt the door just been shut on this, for more than 3 on the bounce though?

Edited October 2, 2007 by Penkoprod

[Pepe']

Was going to retire a couple of years ago in Sattahip.

Got divorced instead and man am I glad to be in San Diego.

I've even canceled the yearly one month vacation this year.

I guess I've had my fill since 1972...

[Ricardo]

The problem with leaving home, wherever that may have been, and emigrating for work or retirement or simply for fun is that, when you try to go 'home' again, you discover that it too has moved-on, and isn't the place you remember it as.

This used to be a common experience for Poms who emigrated to Oz, stayed a few years before returning to home, and quickly found that Oz was the place where they really wanted to be, after all !

My occasional visits back to Old Albion confirm that, for me at least, I made a good decision when deciding to leave, this time for good. It ain't the place it used to be !

But good luck to the OP whatever.

[Tomissan]

The problem with leaving home, wherever that may have been, and emigrating for work or retirement or simply for fun is that, when you try to go 'home' again, you discover that it too has moved-on, and isn't the place you remember it as.

My occasional visits back to Old Albion confirm that, for me at least, I made a good decision when deciding to leave, this time for good. It ain't the place it used to be !

But good luck to the OP whatever.

Interesting observation Ricardo, although for me I found everything Boring as things Did Not change at all, most everything was the same when I left, 10 years before. Family & friends were still talking about the same things and basically doing the same things, etc. Sure, people changed as far as getting old, fat, grey, etc., but they still talked and acted the same as when I left.

Making money wasn't the problem. It was boredom. Thailand had a sense of mystery about it that attracted me. After nearly 20 years, it's still a mystery to me.

Unfortunately, things have changed a lot since I first came here and becoming more difficult to work, legally stay, etc., etc. I guess I feel fortunate that my early years here were easier in some respects.

Living in America I grew to expect a certain level of efficiency, courtesy, integrity, etc. and spend considerable time in small claims court.

The legal system in the states, to a certain extent, protects you from illegal scams and dishonest/shoddy home builders. Basically put, in the states you always have recourse, in Thailand, not so much.

I've been through the ringer a few times while living here and lost a lot of money (wrong girl) although I'm still here with no other place in sight.

I'm not a practicing Buddhist although I live 'here and now', without all the bills and commitments I had living in the states. The cost of living is considerably different so I don't need to work all the time. Can't imagine a better place to retire except maybe for Northern California/Oregon border. Lived in Big Sur for several years, that was nice but then got too crowded on the coast hwy driving to work, moved to town, that got too busy so I moved to Thailand.

Of course, those who 'burn their bridges' are more likely to adapt to new environments, no choice....

Edited October 3, 2007 by Tomissan

[Scott]

When I first moved to Thailand 20+ years ago, it was a lovely place to live. The demographics were different--a very young country. Safety was almost non-existent, I remember looking for a long time just to buy a motorcycle helmet. Most ferries didn't have a life preserver to be seen. Bars were pretty much open all night, etc. etc.

Visa's were no problem, finding work was no problem, staying was no problem. The country was very inexpensive and quite exciting.

The regulations have done some, but not enough to improve it. Now there are helmets, but people don't buckle them, there are life preservers, but not enough--so the slow, the weak and those suffering under the delusion that safety exists, aren't protected.

It's getting to be like a bad version of a western country. The things that made it exciting are disappearing and the things that make it "civilized" haven't quite gotten here yet.

None-the-less, it's still sort of home, so I'll stay awhile.

[JonnieB]

The government is clearly anti-farang. I haven't experienced much xenophobia but the mindset of some people here is maddening.

We often hear comments to this effect. However, can anyone really point to any SPECIFIC Thai government policies that are any more "anti-foreigner" or eenophobic than the policies of most any government when it comes to the residency and employment laws regarding immigrants, tourists, or non-resident aliens in their respective countries.

I mean in any country, there is always a nationalistic xenophobic element of the population (usually with some political representation too) that makes hay on the back of immigrants and/or resident aliens. I just have to look back at my USA and the scapegoating of the legal and illegal Mexican immigrants to see that. It seems to me that sure, the Thais want to better control their borders and get a handle on the foreign population within their borders (completely legitimate) and maybe go about it in a clumsy way (what else is new for any government) but they have a legitimate reason for doing so. All things considered, it is still relatively easy for a qualified foreigner to expatriate to Thailand and reside here legally (albeit for relatively short renewable periods of time).

In addition, many make comments about anti-farang attitudes growing among the people themselves. Again, of course there are always some in any native polulation who will feel this way. But overall, I continue to find the Thais to be a very friendly and hospitible people. Especially when one gets out of the farang ghetto, learns a little Thai, and is aware of local customs when it comes to deportment and such, the locals are very friendly and helpful. It continues to amaze me that given the deportment and appearance of many foreigners in Thailand that we are still as welcome as we are. If I were Thai, I would have long ago joined whatever political party that advocated throwing the bums out

[JonnieB]

I've absolutely no desire to see our child go through the education system here when we can offer him a better future and quality of life in my home country. My Thai wife, a university graduate, feels the same about the education system here and the ever present incompetence tolerated in workplaces.

Road safety. Non-existent. Sending a child to school in that traffic 10 times a week? No way, even if I was to drive him there myself. I used to enjoy driving all over Canada, the U.S., now I find myself staying at home because driving here wears me out, I get very frustrated and it messes me up for days.

Some may me able to live with all the window dressing, the superficiality, ridiculous immigration rules that differ from officer to officer/ office to office, work restrictions, ownership rules, crooked police force, cardboard box and shopping cart blocked alleys at Tesco's, smelly sewer systems that invade your house, bad customer service, the nose picking, crazy truck/bus/car/motorcycle drivers making their own laws, corruption, hearing "farang" many times every day, a plague of soi dogs , bad internet service, phone line out of service because of constant billing errors with surcharges for reconnection, service centers that hand you back a car with "no charge" and then catches on fire and an empty gas tank that was 3/4 full when brought in, people jumping queue like cavemen, political instability, bomb threats, guns everywhere (you just don't see them), people in high positions for who they know not what they know, picking up garbage and plastic bags blown in my yard by the wind, water shortage, power outages, electrical death traps waiting for you everywhere, double pricing, an outdated ambulance/rescue service, non-existent or bribed city planners allowing stinky and noisy manufactures to build AFTER a residential area was set up, beaches littered with garbage, pollution. I can't, had more than enough and, yes, my Thai wife feels the same.

Ahem...and what was it that brought you to Thailand in the first place

[PeaceBlondie]

JonnieB's got a point: we came to Thailand knowing we wouldn't have a cop on every corner, speed limits rigidly enforced, etc. We came here for lots of reasons, and those who leave or stay may do so for entirely changed reasons.

Scott, as always, stated it well: "It's getting to be like a bad version of a western country. The things that made it exciting are disappearing and the things that make it 'civilized' haven't quite gotten here yet." I have always feared that Thailand was adopting all the wrong Western culture.

[joeuk1]

Anyone thats unhappy in Thailand should just piss off back to where they came from .

Enough said .

JB

[Hawkup2000]

I think what bugs most farangs here is that if I (swedish) marry a thai girl she can work anywhere in europe without problem, no visarun ect. If she marry an american she dont have to do visa runs to mexico now and then i.e no hazle at all. Here; if I marry a thai and even have kids I still have to do visaruns and have difficulties with immigration to some extent. As a farang you can never feel 100% settled here. There will always be your next visa run, and who knows what kind of change of rules that comes up next?

PS sorry for any spelling misstakes DS

[JonnieB]

I think what bugs most farangs here is that if I (swedish) marry a thai girl she can work anywhere in europe without problem, no visarun ect. If she marry an american she dont have to do visa runs to mexico now and then i.e no hazle at all. Here; if I marry a thai and even have kids I still have to do visaruns and have difficulties with immigration to some extent. As a farang you can never feel 100% settled here. There will always be your next visa run, and who knows what kind of change of rules that comes up next?

Understand your frustration...but these are general issues that apply immigration to any country not just Thailand. Especially when you are talking about develping countries. Thailand's rules and regulations on long-term foreign residents are rather stingy and underdeveloped so to speak but everyone knows that and it is an aspect to living in Thailand one must accept if one wants to reside here. If one does not want to accept them, there are other alternatives in Asia. As pointed out ad-nauseum, the Malay expatriate program offers a 5-year residence visa as well as other benefits more generous than the Thai package. Maybe at some point in the future, the Thai expatriate package will become more competitive with some others but in the meantime, everyone has the choice of where they choose to reside.

Just because someone marries a Thai should not necessariy grant one the right of residency or citizenship in Thailand. Such restirctions are in place in many other countries as well. If you fall in love and marry fine...just expect to take her back to your home country.

[Hawkup2000]

I have no frustrations at all:). I am still 25 am living the "la vida loca",but what I am at aming here that is that most nice developed countries have good packages for husband, wifes. Here thats is out of the question. Like in Vietnam you can buy 1 ear visa in nearest travel agency for 90 $.

[cdnvic]

in Vietnam you can buy 1 ear visa in nearest travel agency for 90 $.

How much for the rest of your body?

[xyborg]

<br />

I think what bugs most farangs here is that if I (swedish) marry a thai girl she can work anywhere in europe without problem, no visarun ect. If she marry an american she dont have to do visa runs to mexico now and then i.e no hazle at all. Here; if I marry a thai and even have kids I still have to do visaruns and have difficulties with immigration to some extent. As a farang you can never feel 100% settled here. There will always be your next visa run, and who knows what kind of change of rules that comes up next?

<br /><br />Understand your frustration...but these are general issues that apply immigration to any country not just Thailand. Especially when you are talking about develping countries. Thailand's rules and regulations on long-term foreign residents are rather stingy and underdeveloped so to speak but everyone knows that and it is an aspect to living in Thailand one must accept if one wants to reside here. If one does not want to accept them, there are other alternatives in Asia. As pointed out ad-nauseum, the Malay expatriate program offers a 5-year residence visa as well as other benefits more generous than the Thai package. Maybe at some point in the future, the Thai expatriate package will become more competitive with some others but in the meantime, everyone has the choice of where they choose to reside.<br /><br />Just because someone marries a Thai should not necessariy grant one the right of residency or citizenship in Thailand. Such restirctions are in place in many other countries as well. If you fall in love and marry fine...just expect to take her back to your home country.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

And get the same crap back there from your own government so in effect you both end up living apart. I think they should say if you have a bona fide marriage of more than 6 years you could stay after all its not like we can empty the Thai social security fund (unlike the UK)is it.The Uk used to let many Asian families in just beacsue they were family. They abused the system so much (inc welfare system) now we have the stupid citizen test using irrelevant questions even the UK public dont know.

[Tony Clifton]

I've absolutely no desire to see our child go through the education system here when we can offer him a better future and quality of life in my home country. My Thai wife, a university graduate, feels the same about the education system here and the ever present incompetence tolerated in workplaces.

Road safety. Non-existent. Sending a child to school in that traffic 10 times a week? No way, even if I was to drive him there myself. I used to enjoy driving all over Canada, the U.S., now I find myself staying at home because driving here wears me out, I get very frustrated and it messes me up for days.

Some may me able to live with all the window dressing, the superficiality, ridiculous immigration rules that differ from officer to officer/ office to office, work restrictions, ownership rules, crooked police force, cardboard box and shopping cart blocked alleys at Tesco's, smelly sewer systems that invade your house, bad customer service, the nose picking, crazy truck/bus/car/motorcycle drivers making their own laws, corruption, hearing "farang" many times every day, a plague of soi dogs , bad internet service, phone line out of service because of constant billing errors with surcharges for reconnection, service centers that hand you back a car with "no charge" and then catches on fire and an empty gas tank that was 3/4 full when brought in, people jumping queue like cavemen, political instability, bomb threats, guns everywhere (you just don't see them), people in high positions for who they know not what they know, picking up garbage and plastic bags blown in my yard by the wind, water shortage, power outages, electrical death traps waiting for you everywhere, double pricing, an outdated ambulance/rescue service, non-existent or bribed city planners allowing stinky and noisy manufactures to build AFTER a residential area was set up, beaches littered with garbage, pollution. I can't, had more than enough and, yes, my Thai wife feels the same.

Ahem...and what was it that brought you to Thailand in the first place

I believe it was a 747.

Jokes aside, it was the woman who is now my wife and soon to be a mother. I needed some change in my life back then as well, so I decided to move here still not knowing if it would be permanent or temporary. A child's future changes everything. I don't see going back to my home country as a defeat or anything of the sort but rather an enriching life experience that makes me enjoy more the place where I was lucky to be born, which I now consider as THE paradise, without the palm trees and hot weather.

[totlanh]

I have no frustrations at all:). I am still 25 am living the "la vida loca",but what I am at aming here that is that most nice developed countries have good packages for husband, wifes. Here thats is out of the question. Like in Vietnam you can buy 1 ear visa in nearest travel agency for 90 $.

Hawkup(or anybody else)

I am going to Vietam for a year in January,are you sure you can buy a 1 year visa?Have you done this your-self and if so are there conditions attatched and is it a Multi entry

Cheers

[kmart]

I wish the very best of good luck to the OP, Tony Clifton, and anyone else who has expressed their intentions or wishes to leave Thailand.

Having children here will change most people's perspectives on their lives in LOS. Especially their kid's education and future prospects here.

Anyone who is wavering should also visit back home to their country of birth and help themselves to get perspective on Thailand's good points too. After spending a long time here its sometimes all too easy to let relatively small things get you down.

Edited October 3, 2007 by kmart

[ColPyat]

Anyone thats unhappy in Thailand should just piss off back to where they came from .

Enough said .

JB

If it would be so easy...

I might have done that with my family, if not my country of birth would not have introduced a new law recently, in which foreign spouses of citizens now have to pass a language test before being granted a cohabitation visa. And that is is just another difficulty added to the bureaucratic nightmare we have in front of us in a few years time when we are going to try to adopt our son (no - we didn't exactly cue up asking for the little one - there was just no other option as nobody wanted to have him and after several months with us we just had to make the decision to raise him as our son. It was not his fault to be born).

As many people here said - having children changes a lot. Many negative things in Thailand that won't affect you as long as you are without children will come full in force when you have them, such as the miserable education system.

At the moment we are trapped in a not very comfortable situation - if i don't leave my family (which is not an option), i can't live in my place of birth thanks to a increasingly anti-foreigner system there, am living in a country that i do not feel as welcome anymore as i once felt. And i already feel bad for my little one who has to attend the horrible school system in Thailand.

Yes, if i just could piss off...

[actiondell4]

I have been to Thailand over 20 times over the years,mostly twice a year for average 3 weeks each.I had/have plans to move to Pattaya when i retired.

Recently i spent my longest time in Pattaya,being 3 months and i can say by the end of it,a lot of my dreams had been shattered.

I got bored,i started finding small things irritating,such as different businesses trying to rip you off,for eg,going into a internet shop and having him help me work a CD ,and then charging me extra 30 baht,and numerous other things.

I suppose i became Thailanded out so to speak.

i still have hopes of going there to retire,but i will make sure i have something to do during the day,have a small business or something along with some financial security.

It wasnt as excited as when i first went,in fact i was glad to get back to Australia after it.

The system of haggling continually etc also gave me a headache.

Some of the supermarket prices are a bit lower ,some are higher,and some are the same as Australian supermarket prices.

I found a lot of Thais arrogant and ignorant in their service,something i never really worried about before as i was a quick tourist,but this time staying there 3 months really opened up my eyes.

Maybe it was just Pattaya,maybe if i had gone to BKK or Isaan it would of been different,i dunno.

But i think its better to work,save the money in your own country and visit Thailand as much as you can and eventually you will have the money to live there comfortably.

I am a workaholic,so going there for 3 months did get boring but it taught me a hel_l of a lot,about myself as well as Thailand.