Uk Visas-the Future

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sarah sounds a lot brighter than the bureacrats. One can only wonder about the bureaucratic mind process.

[konangrit]

Come on people. if you want to apply for citizenship in any country you should be able to comunicate in the language fluently. These rules are fair, if I wanted to apply for Thai citizenship I would expect myself to speak Thai fluently. If somebody wishes to apply for British citizenship they should learn English (or at least a language which is spoken there such as Welsh).

Citizenship should not be a matter of who you know or how much money you have, it's a serious step in life and you should be prepared to go the whole way if you wish it.

From birth I am English and I have no intention to change my nationality, however if I ever did wish to change my nationality I would hope that I would have the basic knowledge of the language and history of the country that I wished to convert to.

Sorry to get too indepth, but I think a lot of people aquire other nationalities for financial means rather then cultural ones.

[somtaamgaiyang]

Who knows, I might teach my wife welsh for a laugh. That has to be the most ridiculous bit of PC-ness I have ever heard. Croeseo Y Cymru

[konangrit]

Who knows, I might teach my wife welsh for a laugh. That has to be the most ridiculous bit of PC-ness I have ever heard. Croeseo Y Cymru

Yeah, It may all sound a bit PC, but there are actually people living in Argentina who's first language is Welsh. Apart from that I can think of no other circumstances where a person applying for citizenship would speak a language of the UK other than English.

Personally I think mastery of the Welsh language should be an automatic disqualification for entry to the UK, or east bound of the severn crossings at least ...........

[somtaamgaiyang]

Well, not a disqualification, it would be a severe hindrance in itself, unless you wanted to live near Snowdonia.

I was simply commenting on the political correctness of including Welsh and Gaelic as being of a similar standing in terms of obtaining citizenship. It is very nice that efforts are made to retain these languages; and despite being a welshman, also a complete waste of education resources.

The amount of foreigners applying for citizenship who will pitch up to the home office with a Welsh certificate will be zero. It is simply the idea that the home office has to recognize these as of equal standing that shows how political correctness can get out of hand.

Mind you it may help you to get a job since every bank/government office in Wales etc has to have at least one welsh speaker. As for jobs in BBC Wales, it amounts to a shoe-in if you are a welsh speaker.

[konangrit]

Sorry Som, just kidding.

I do get your point that time spent teaching kids Welsh could be much better spent teaching them French, German, Japanese or whatever.

Also get your point that the Welsh Assembly and many other government related businesses such as the BBC spend a lot of money on dual language services which are not really neccesary. I'm English though, so not really my place to comment how the Welsh spend their money.

You're right that the amount of people applying for UK citizenship on the basis of knowledge of a language other than English will be zero, but that law costs nothing, unlike writing ARAF or CYMRU on hundreds of road signs.

Basically agree with all you have to say

[Rinrada]

I picked up yet another interesting article on a proposal (only proposed :rolleyes:mind you) that in order to encourage U.K.nationals to become more integrated within the European Union it would/may be neccessary to "in build" further language requirements for new and re-issued passport applications.

Bearing in mind that one of the biggest drawbacks the "les Anglais" tend to endure is in identifying with the concept of and full participation within "the union" would be their general lack of enthusism as a nation to attempt to communicate in any other lingos but their own.

This idea (again only idea)would make it mandatory for all new and existing P/P aplics.to prove their ability to communicate not only in English but also in say French,German etc.

Didnt mention anything about Gaelic/Welsh.

Most fellow Euros that I have have bumped into over the years (espically on business) tend to be fluent not only in their own languages but usually with a couple of extras on top.

Looks like bacc to Skool for uz all.

[Martin_F]

[

I really don't see anything wrong in having some kind of standards to meet for citizenship.  US has always had them and Thailand does.  Why not the UK?

yes a good idea , it stops ethnics creating enclaves and ghettoes , not that thais would though , but the UK is losing its identity .

i guess its aimed at Indian and pakis who dont want to integrate and then usurp the host nation

Farangs never do this in Thailand, do they!!

[jhj2000]

Come on this has been an issue for a long time before the Taskin era.

[Rinrada]

Another update from our friends at Immigration-The Home Office..for the wee red book applicants

Sorry bit long winded but I know of at least 5 Thais in the process over here (funny how ALL female)and the goal posts keep changing but recon the match is about to kick off.

If you dont get the bits and pieces absolutely correct your application will be returned and you could poss.lose out on a retention/checking fee although people I know up to now have not have not been charged.

New language requirement, further information -

The need to prove sufficient knowledge of the English language

To repeat:(where we left off)

From 28 July 2004, the standard of knowledge of the English language which applicants for naturalisation will need has been defined as ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages) Entry 3.

Very broadly speaking, at this level people are able to hold a conversation or get detailed information from a timetable (there is a more detailed description of ESOL Entry 3 at the end of this note).

There are a number of ways of proving that your English reaches Entry 3 or above.

1.If you have an educational qualification which could only have been obtained by someone who speaks good English, we will accept this as proving that you meet the standard for naturalisation. (but you GOTTA prove it)

This qualification might be, for instance, a GCSE or A level certificate or a degree or diploma from a University or Higher Education Institution, either in Britain or another English speaking country.

We will also accept degrees or diplomas from Higher Education Institutions in non-English speaking countries where English is the language of instruction, provided that you send us a copy of documentation which proves that the course is conducted in English.

2.If English is your native language, or if you speak English as well as the average native speaker does, a procedure exists for you to prove this without having to show the educational qualifications described in Section 1.

Under this procedure, you need to make an appointment with a person who has been designated by the Government as having the power to certify that a person "has a knowledge of English to the level reasonably expected of a person of fully age and capacity whose native language is English".

At present, the only people designated for this purpose are:

Notaries (further details on site)

(you can find a notary in England and Wales through the website of the Notaries Society

At the interview, the designated person will hold a short conversation with you, in order to satisfy himself or herself that you are a native speaker of English or that your English language skills are as good as the average native speaker of English. If the designated person, having had the conversation with you, is satisfied about this, then he or she should sign and give to you a certificate in the form attached to this guidance.

Once you have the certificate, you should send it...etc. plus the dosh

3.If you have been learning English as a second language, there are many different types of certificates which are issued to show the standard you have reached.

If you have an ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages) certificate at Entry 3 level, or any higher level (level 1, level 2, or level 3), or if you hold an alternative qualification for learners of English equivalent to or better than ESOL Entry 3, please send a copy............

4. If you are learning English, and you think that you meet the ESOL Entry 3 standard (the ability to hold a conversation in English and to get detailed information from a timetable), but you do not hold any certificate, then you should undergo an Initial Assessment in ESOL. This will assess your level of English language and the person monitoring the assessment will be able to sign your forms if you demonstrate you are at Entry 3.

An ESOL Initial Assessment should be delivered by a suitably qualified teacher. You can find out more about undergoing an Initial Assessment from an ESOL provider.

Try private language colleges, or FE colleges in your area.

The number of providers making Initial Assessments available for these purposes will increase over the coming months.

You are likely to be charged for the Initial Assessment, but this should be reasonable for the time you spend with the qualified teacher.

If you are assessed as not yet at ESOL Entry 3 then the teacher will be able to suggest how to go about improving your English.

5. If your English is clearly not yet at the standard of ESOL Entry 3, you will need to improve your English to apply for citizenship. You may want to do this by enrolling on an English language course in order to bring your skills up to ESOL Entry 3.

Further Education Colleges normally offer English language courses which lead to ESOL qualifications

If you are learning English, and you think that you meet the ESOL Entry 3 standard (the ability to hold a conversation in English and to get detailed information from a timetable), but you do not hold any certificate, (then you should get off your butt and go and get one.)

ESOL ENTRY 3: WHAT IT MEANS

As was mentioned at the beginning of this note, a person at ESOL Entry 3 is able to hold a conversation or obtain detailed information from a timetable.

Below is a more detailed list of the language skills which are associated with ESOL Entry 3 :

Listen and respond to spoken language, including straightforward information and narratives, and follow straightforward explanations and instructions, both face-to-face and on the telephone.

Communicate orally information, feelings and opinions on familiar topics, using appropriate formality, both face-to-face and on the telephone.

Engage in discussion with one or more people in a familiar situation, making relevant points and responding to what others say to reach a shared understanding about familiar topics.

Read and understand short, straightforward texts on familiar topics accurately and independently.

Read and obtain information from everyday sources.

Communicate in writing information and opinions with some adaptation to the intended audience.

Understand the main points of clear standard input on familiar matters regularly encountered in work, school, leisure etc.

Deal with most situations likely to arise while travelling in an area where English is spoken.

Produce simple connected texts on topics which are familiar or of personal interest.

Describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes and ambitions and briefly give reasons and explanations for opinions and plans.

Show competence in a limited range of tasks, performed in familiar work and social contexts.

Have a repertoire equal to most routine language tasks and have sufficient grasp of grammar to cope with some non-routine tasks.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/ho...equirement.html

[bkk_mike]

there are actually people living in Argentina whose first language is Welsh. Apart from that I can think of no other circumstances where a person applying for citizenship would speak a language of the UK other than English.

There is at least one other group. - Gaelic speakers in Nova Scotia in Canada. However, they would probably also speak English.

However, if as I read in an earlier post, there are genuinely cases of Australians failing the English test, it might be worthwhile using Welsh/Gaelic as the language for the application if they speak any... (since that would get around the test).

[mango]

If one wishes to become a resident in any country should know the language as well as history and basic rights.

Think, this is fair enough, for PR and/or naturalization a dedicated interest to your 'new' country should be expected.

ONLY RIGHT.

[Eastender]

I taught English to many students of different levels in Thailand. I can think of perhaps only a couple who could possibly pass the ESOL exam as described by Riwanda above.

And I suspect that one student of mine, who recently graduated in Englsih at Ramkamheng university, would have difficulty.

And unfortunately I suspect that my girlfriend would fail.

Depending on their pass criteria, this could be a very tough exam for Thai students.