International School Salary......

[Crimson]

Hi everyone!

I'm so happy I found this forum! I have a zillion questions, but I'll start with this one for now....

I moved here from the U.S. to help start an international school. I have four years of teaching experience plus a Master's in education. I currently get paid about 94,000 baht per month, and in March I will receive a raise that will put me over 100,000 baht per month. My housing is completely paid for, as is my medical insurance and visa stuff, and I get a free round-trip ticket. Plus my employers frequently feed me

I was just wondering--for all of you working in international schools--whether or not my salary is equivalent to what other teachers in the larger international schools (ISB, Ruamrudee, etc.) are making. My role is a hybrid teacher/administrator role. We are just getting started and currently do not have many students, but I work very hard, only get 1.5 days off per week, and get very few holidays. I just wanted to make sure that I'm getting paid accurately because it is IMPOSSIBLE to find information about salaries from the schools themselves!!! They will only reveal that information if you are serious about applying for a job. Plus I have not yet met any other teachers out here who can give me a basis for comparison.

Any insight that anyone can provide would be MUCH appreciated!! It's also helpful for me to know this information for when we start recruiting other teachers. Thanks!!

[sriracha john]

underpaid by about a third....

[Neeranam]

I was speaking to a friend at Harrow international school last week - they get a lot more than 100,000 a month. You're being ripped off.

[sbk]

Moved to the teaching in Thailand forum

///MOVED///

[Crimson]

Hi everyone!

I'm so happy I found this forum! I have a zillion questions, but I'll start with this one for now....

I moved here from the U.S. to help start an international school. I have four years of teaching experience plus a Master's in education. I currently get paid about 94,000 baht per month, and in March I will receive a raise that will put me over 100,000 baht per month. My housing is completely paid for, as is my medical insurance and visa stuff, and I get a free round-trip ticket. Plus my employers frequently feed me

I was just wondering--for all of you working in international schools--whether or not my salary is equivalent to what other teachers in the larger international schools (ISB, Ruamrudee, etc.) are making. My role is a hybrid teacher/administrator role. We are just getting started and currently do not have many students, but I work very hard, only get 1.5 days off per week, and get very few holidays. I just wanted to make sure that I'm getting paid accurately because it is IMPOSSIBLE to find information about salaries from the schools themselves!!! They will only reveal that information if you are serious about applying for a job. Plus I have not yet met any other teachers out here who can give me a basis for comparison.

Any insight that anyone can provide would be MUCH appreciated!! It's also helpful for me to know this information for when we start recruiting other teachers. Thanks!!

Hi, it's Crimson again......

I have a few more questions: At these various international schools (that clearly pay more than what I'm getting...sheesh.....), is housing included?? Do teachers have to pay taxes?? Are teachers paid during the summer??

Thanks for including these specifics in your responses!! I want to be as certain about my figures as possible when I a) gently ask for my raise to be increased a little further, and suggest what we should pay teachers that we recruit from the States.

Thanks!!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

Your job seems more of an administrator than a classroom teacher. My daughter's M.Ed. in administration/supervision qualifies her to be a (vice)principal, where she'd make far, far more than her current US$4,200 per month. How much can housing be worth: 12,000 baht?

I encourage our readers to contribute hard numbers, but that won't be easy. If you think men lie about sex, ask them what their salary is.

Of course, most international schools don't come close to ISB and Harrow's.

[JetsetBkk]

If you think men lie about sex, ask them what their salary is.

[stament]

If you think men lie about sex, ask them what their salary is.

What about women lying about how much they spend on clothes????

[Ijustwannateach]

If you were ONLY teaching, and had very little experience or seniority, 120K plus a whole slew of benefits would be a good offer. Your past experience and the extra administrative duties call for more. You should be making at least 200K a month, by my estimation, if they are serious about being a real "international" school- after all, the other employees with less experience and no administrative duties should be making less than you, and if they have the right resume they should be asking for 120K. Sorry to say, it's clearly not a real international school you're working at- but from your brief description it has all the hallmarks of a Thai-run private school that will likely collapse into mediocrity (or collapse entirely) soon.

[sriracha john]

Hi everyone!

Hi, it's Crimson again......

I have a few more questions: At these various international schools (that clearly pay more than what I'm getting...sheesh.....), is housing included?? Do teachers have to pay taxes?? Are teachers paid during the summer??

Thanks for including these specifics in your responses!! I want to be as certain about my figures as possible when I a) gently ask for my raise to be increased a little further, and suggest what we should pay teachers that we recruit from the States.

Thanks!!!!

Of the I.S. school teachers I know,

Housing is an additional 25K allowance above their salary.

They pay taxes.

They are paid the same 12 months a year.

Edited October 13, 2007 by sriracha john

[PeaceBlondie]

A friend from Iowa came through Chiang Mai recently and I think he said that in the USA, school superintendents often earn more than $200K per year (plus lots of benefits). That's 560,000 baht per month! However, the OP here has only taught 5 years, and we don't know if he has any training or experience in supervision/administration. Nor, whether such experience would actually be used in a new 'more or less, sort of, international school' in Thailand.

[kayaker]

120+???

I've been here a while, and from the people I know salaries are around 80,000. There are only a few 'real' international schools here. If the salaries are really that much then there are a lot of schools that will be losing staff fast, when they read this thread and realise what others are getting paid.

[insideleft]

Next year I will begin a two-year part-time teaching course in Australia.

I have a four-year bachelor, a master’s and a celta...with the teacher’s course and western educator’s license, I will be fully qualified to teach english literature, social science and legal studies.

There is talk in this thread of qualified teacher’s salaries...what of newly qualified teachers, so, teacher’s without experience?

Is there work available? Will I have a chance of finding employment in the recognized international schools in Thailand? In approaching these schools as a qualified teacher without experience, can I barter, negotiate a lower salary in order to gain employment?

If, once qualified, I take work in a second tier international school in Thailand and teach for one or two years, will the higher status schools recognise this experience?

Next year I hope to complete my four-week practicum in a recognised international school in Thailand, can anyone advise me, and offer support in this endeavor?

ed

[maprao]

If you think men lie about sex, ask them what their salary is.

Couldn't agree more!!!! Mine is 12" long

This has got to be a troll. If its not I have never read such bo**ocks in a long time

[sriracha john]

120+???

I've been here a while, and from the people I know salaries are around 80,000. There are only a few 'real' international schools here. If the salaries are really that much then there are a lot of schools that will be losing staff fast, when they read this thread and realise what others are getting paid.

the operative word here is "real"... and for them it's actually often higher than 120K.

for PB's very descriptive 'more or less, sort of, international school' in Thailand... 80K or even lower

[sriracha john]

Next year I will begin a two-year part-time teaching course in Australia.

I have a four-year bachelor, a master’s and a celta...with the teacher’s course and western educator’s license, I will be fully qualified to teach english literature, social science and legal studies.

There is talk in this thread of qualified teacher’s salaries...what of newly qualified teachers, so, teacher’s without experience?

Is there work available? Will I have a chance of finding employment in the recognized international schools in Thailand? In approaching these schools as a qualified teacher without experience, can I barter, negotiate a lower salary in order to gain employment?

If, once qualified, I take work in a second tier international school in Thailand and teach for one or two years, will the higher status schools recognise this experience?

Next year I hope to complete my four-week practicum in a recognised international school in Thailand, can anyone advise me, and offer support in this endeavor?

ed

The "real" teachers I know of all have a minimum 5 years teaching in the West or at "real" international schools elsewhere... less than that and it seems the schools aren't interested, nor are they overly interested in "local hires" of teachers with their experience based on 'more or less, sort of, international school' in Thailand. Offering to accept a lower salary doesn't interest the "real" schools, they are focused on obtaining quality for the high fees they charge the parents.

Edited October 14, 2007 by sriracha john

[gregybn]

I haven't done any rigorous survey, but I think many International Schools in Thailand are wannabes.

If they are not accredited through WASC (or a similar prestigious organization) then they are probably wannabes... and can pay whatever they want.

I taught in an accredited school in China for 3 year - for an M.A. plus 10 years experience... salaries were upwards of $4000 + significant benefits.

[PeaceBlondie]

C'mon, are we all just wannabe experts? Don't we have a dozen posters here with B.Ed., M.Ed., western certification and training, who each know 29 more such peers including their precise salary and schools' names? No, we don't!

I was on the ferry boat to Phi Phi one time with two ISB teachers, but they didn't show me their paycheck stubs. I spent the evening with a teacher from Chiang Mai I.S., but he never mentioned his salary. I don't know. Do you?

[Ijustwannateach]

Many students and parents don't want the severity and real risks (gradewise) of real international-standard schools. Furthermore, if they are real international schools the number of Thai students is typically limited (otherwise it wouldn't be international, would it?) and so they lose the benefit of an extensive "old boys'/girls'" network in the future. Moreover, the international students are not always regarded as a good influence on the Thai students. Therefore these "second tier" schools are quite popular and *some*- not most, but *some*- of them can even be effective. Your mileage may vary.

"S"

[too true]

It kind of also depends on where you're living, doesn't it? Bangkok salaries are significantly higher than salaries up country. Where are you located?

[gregybn]

C'mon, are we all just wannabe experts?

I think you missed my wording PB...

It's the SCHOOLS that are wannabes - I didn't say anything about the teachers... read my post again.

Many "International Schools" set up with NO accreditation... if they are lucky to survive long enough, they learn to jump through the hoops necessary - but then they usually have to up their standards - hence their remuneration for properly qualified staff.

Therefore these "second tier" schools are quite popular and *some*- not most, but *some*- of them can even be effective.

Agreed!

[applexkwan]

I attended an international school and know alot of friends that did also. The thing with pay is that bigger international and well know school such as Harrow, saint Johns, sherwsberry etc.. are paying there staff more because of the large amount of students in them. In some school student pay upwards of 300,000 bahts per term not even including the travel cost, fee, enterance fee and all that. so the school is havesting a larger amount of profits and am guess teachers can demand higher pay.

I would try looking at some of the school websites and ask information based on jobs. But for a starting salary in an new open international school that is not a bad pay it will go up as the school gets bigger. Ofcourse that is only a guess. But you can more then likely get a better pay in a bigger school.

And the whole wannabes school well there are alot out there, made and created. There are so may ISB that it is hard really to choose a good school.

[too true]

C'mon, are we all just wannabe experts?

I think you missed my wording PB...

It's the SCHOOLS that are wannabes - I didn't say anything about the teachers... read my post again.

Many "International Schools" set up with NO accreditation... if they are lucky to survive long enough, they learn to jump through the hoops necessary - but then they usually have to up their standards - hence their remuneration for properly qualified staff.

Therefore these "second tier" schools are quite popular and *some*- not most, but *some*- of them can even be effective.

Agreed!

You can't get accredited until you have already set up shop. First Thai accreditation comes from MOE. AFter that you have 5 years to get accredited from an international accrediting body or you lose your Thai accreditation. And it generally takes at least two years because you have to come up with all the paperwork to prove students are meeting the goals, have initial visits, prepare an action plan, and generate a tonne of paperwork. So technically you have to set up with no accreditation.

I'm not disputing that there are some horrible institutions calling themselves international schools that stay open without accreditation for 5 years, close down, and then reopen under another name. BUt the idea of education as business is another can of worms all together.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm not complaining about how this topic has evolved, from salaries to accreditation. My point is that we probably will never know the salaries of 25% of the real teachers in half of the real int. schools in Thailand.

Still, it would be nice to know how much the chairman of an English dept. earns per month, or a single instance such as a B.Ed holder at ISB, or the P.E. coach at Harrow, the art teacher at Prem....

[gregybn]

So technically you have to set up with no accreditation.

Absolutely... sorry if I indicated the chicken came before the egg.

I have been involved in accreditations in Canadian public & private schools... Canadian colleges, Chinese International schools, Chinese colleges, Thai private schools and Thai private colleges... whew!

you have to come up with all the paperwork to prove students are meeting the goals, have initial visits, prepare an action plan, and generate a tonne of paperwork.

That... is an understatement - to be sure... it is a very intense and stressful process - for teachers and administrators (students could care less)

My point is that we probably will never know the salaries of 25% of the real teachers in half of the real int. schools in Thailand.

Totally correct... people either get defensive and/or they lie... but who gives a rat's ass?

Really, isn't it just all about egos talking that "mine (salary) is bigger than yours"

The quality and reputation of the school - and the quality of the clientèle community - will ultimately set the salaries for the teachers down the line.

Research - apply - interview - choose, or be chosen!

You want a job (and if they want you)... in a particular place/school... you will accept what they offer, according to your educational qualifications, verifiable experience and their existing salary scale

(... unless you are fortunate enough to be offered multiple jobs and can pick/choose - Hey, I have accepted jobs for less pay, because the other "non-tangible benefits" were superior - it's not always about money)

If people want to play "compare salary" games - it's just that - a game.

[USSPATRIOT]

Salary is important. But, who would choose a teaching career because of salary? As a general rule, salaried teachers don't make much money. Managers, doctors, contractors do. If I choose teaching, it will be because I like it, and I am good at it. It's easier than some of the other jobs out there.

So much talk about how much a teacher makes. What does it matter if you can live on it? The next guy that makes more money than you is a better teacher? Not necessarily. He might just be lucky that he got the job. If you put him in the same classroom, will more students succeed?

Bottom line is if you are in teaching because of money, if you think you're really good and not afraid of hard work, then try something else. Many posters here with experience in management in the industry can verify that it pays more than management in academics. (Not to mention that you don't get stock options in academics.)

And, what is this talk about "real" school? As long as each teacher has the backbone and maintain the academic standards, the students will learn--be it at 300,000 baht school or 60,000 baht school. I have taught at two schools in Thailand. In one, I had to pass everybody. In other, I was able to fail students who didn't meet the standards. Both are not the 300,000 baht schools. We can't generalize that "cheap" schools are all bad and do not maintain the standards or are not "real". It's free to attend Mahidol Wittayanusorn if the students are smart enough to get in. And, those kids will beat ISB/BPS kids on any given day of the week in math and science, providing language barrier is not the issue. Such academic excellence is as real as a school gets.

[thai_narak]

My GOD! I nearly had heart attack reading the posts here with salaries like 200K, 500K+, etc... So it means IS teacher are getting paid like General Managers in Telecom companies? WOW!!! I tell you what, I have an engineer friend working in bangkok who make 150K on a permanent supervisor position, all that without accomodation. Knowing the salaries of the IS teachers now from this thread will advice my friend to teach intead.

By the way, I knew some IS teachers in Pattaya and Rayong that hardly make it to 80K as I have been told... But now I know that they are lying...

[Crimson]

Hi!! Thanks so much for your reply!! I most definitely can assure everyone that I did not get into teaching for the money! I used to teach in inner-city districts in the U.S., and I made less there than I am making now!! At the same time, I did take a year off to be a full-time student (not earning a salary) in grad school, so I do have loans and debt to pay off. I just wanted to see what other salaries are out there, particularly since we will soon be hiring more teachers from the U.S. and we need to know what we are up against!! At the same time, you are absolutely right: what difference does it make what other people are making as long as my salary is enough to live on? I really appreciate that insight.

You all have been tremendously helpful!! I'm so glad I found this online community!! I really appreciate the info I've been given so far...keep it coming!!!

Just purely out of curiosity: are there any posters out there who are currently employed at the "top-tier" international schools here?? Schools such as ISB, Harrow's, Bangkok Patana, etc.? I'm just curious to find out from teachers currently employed there what the salaries and general work environments (such as school culture) are like!! In the end, you all are right: money isn't everything.

Thanks!!!!!

[Ijustwannateach]

While it's up to you, I would strongly recommend that members do NOT reveal their specific workplaces for all-too-obvious reasons. I am aware of at least a couple of posters who are teachers at schools in the league that you mention.

I continue to believe you are being exploited and underpaid, Crimson, and it most likely won't stop with what's already happened. Good luck.

[USSPATRIOT]

While it's up to you, I would strongly recommend that members do NOT reveal their specific workplaces for all-too-obvious reasons. I am aware of at least a couple of posters who are teachers at schools in the league that you mention.

I continue to believe you are being exploited and underpaid, Crimson, and it most likely won't stop with what's already happened. Good luck.

Try hanging out in the Irish pubs in the Silom District. Good chance you will run into many of those teachers. Get them drunk and trick them into telling you how much they make. If you need help, enlist one of the local go-go girls in your venture. Those dirty old men are easy prey for the worldly ladies. ;-)