Thai School Apologizes To Jewish Organization For Nazi Celebration

[qualtrough]

Still too many Thais only know of Nazi Germany but don't know about Nazi Germany. Reflects the education system's state in 2007. Funny that out of ALL of the school teachers, principal and others, none seemed to have notice or care.

The education system is terrible. I can't imagine any other people being so ignorant. Really is shameful isn't it?

"Depending on how it is asked, more than a third of Americans say Saddam Hussein was personally involved in those attacks [9/11]. In a New York Times/CBS News Poll in September, 33 percent of the respondents said Saddam Hussein was “personally” involved. In June, when Princeton Survey Research, polling for Newsweek, asked if “Saddam Hussein’s regime was directly involved in planning, financing or carrying out the terrorist attacks,” 41 percent said yes."

Edited October 19, 2007 by qualtrough

[qualtrough]

The hypocrisy is really quite overwhelming and in this case particularly ironic when one considers the plight of the Palestinians subjugated by their Jewish oppressors funded by dear old Uncle Sam who from time to time is not adverse to the odd slaughter whenever it suits.

The "Palestinians" were offered their own country to stop fighting many times and they turned it down. They can blame themselves for their situation.

Anyone who supports suicide bombing against innocent men, women and children and refuses to talk peace no matter how good the deal they are offered has brought the "odd slaughter" on themselves. It is called Karma.

Those ###### Palestinians. Why can't they just accept that they don't exist, have no right to the land they were born in, and get on with their lives? What an unreasonable people. I mean, the Israelis have never, ever engaged in any kind of terrorism, we all know that, so why do the Palestinians?

P.S. Ulyssses G. I realize that by criticizing Israel I am an anti-semite. That is the rule, right?

Edited October 19, 2007 by qualtrough

[Ulysses G.]

P.S. Ulyssses G. I realize that by criticizing Israel I am an anti-semite. That is the rule, right?

There is a very, VERY good chance that you are.

[elkangorito]

Expecting one society to observe the taboos of another totally alien to its culture always struck me as somewhat hollow and in reality has probably more to do with paying obeisance to that Western totem of political correctness rather than displaying a genuine respect. But the question still remains, why on earth should these children be expected to honour the memory of the victims of a European holocaust conducted a generation ago by a perverted society with which they have had no connection whatsoever?

What is it about the sanctimony of the West, so complacent in their arrogance, that their wretched history should contain lessons for those of the East who presumably must be grateful forever more for the the instruction. The hypocrisy is really quite overwhelming and in this case particularly ironic when one considers the plight of the Palestinians subjugated by their Jewish oppressors funded by dear old Uncle Sam who from time to time is not adverse to the odd slaughter whenever it suits.

The East owes nothing to the West and frankly any opportunity for the modern youth of Asia to show their contempt for the arrant hypocrisy of so called western values should be seized without hesitation.

I fully agree.

And when will individuals realise that THEY are in control of their own thoughts & (re)actions?

The whole world is addicted to the idea of "cause & affect" when in actual fact, it need not be the case.

If someone does something to which others choose to be offended, the "self offended" then seek to stop the actions of the alleged "offenders". Why? Because it is seemingly easier to have others change their ways instead of oneself changing its ways (thoughts). Are we not in control of our own thoughts or does someone hold a gun against our head & tell us how & what to think...and for that matter, how to react?

What damage was done due to this situation? NONE...except that certain people CHOSE to be upset. This whole thing is completely ridiculous when "world leaders" of today bomb sovereign countries for no apparent reason, proliferate nuclear weapons (again), supply weapons & money to other countries solely for the purpose of killing people.

What the kids did was not politically correct BUT, I don't think they did it because they wanted to start a Nazi Party.

In my opinion, the school should not have apologised for something that they did not do. That is, they did not actively applaud the reign of Hitler or his alleged atrocities. They simply wanted a "fancy dress" activity.

People who choose to be affected by the similar (Thai school childrens') actions of others are "puppets on a string", who will react when the string is pulled.

Before they are polluted with "adult thinking", children do not display such asinine reactions to harmless thoughts. They simply don't react, which is a rather peaceful way to live.

As my grandmother said to me when I was very young, "Sticks & stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me." Why don't some "adults" practice what they preach?

[qualtrough]

P.S. Ulyssses G. I realize that by criticizing Israel I am an anti-semite. That is the rule, right?

There is a very, VERY good chance that you are.

Thank you for confirming my assessment of your position, which in a nutshell is, "While other countries can be criticized, criticism of Israel is prima facie evidence of anti-semitism." What an excellent method for deflecting criticism! Too bad it is not working very well any more...

Edited October 19, 2007 by qualtrough

[Ulysses G.]

Those ###### Palestinians. Why can't they just accept that they don't exist, have no right to the land they were born in, and get on with their lives? What an unreasonable people. I mean, the Israelis have never, ever engaged in any kind of terrorism, we all know that, so why do the Palestinians?

Almost everyone in the world agrees that Israel has the right to exist; They are not going anywhere.

If Palestinans want their own country, it is (way past) time to deal.

The Palestinians blow up airplanes full of innocents.

The Israelis blew up the British Military Headquarters - their enemies - in the Hotel David after phoning to tell them to get out because a bomb would go off soon. The Brits said that they 'Don't take orders from Jews" and got blown up.

Not exactly the same thing.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

P.S. Ulyssses G. I realize that by criticizing Israel I am an anti-semite. That is the rule, right?

There is a very, VERY good chance that you are.

Thank you for confirming my assessment of your position, which in a nutshell is, "While other countries can be criticized, criticism of Israel is prima facie evidence of anti-semitism." What an excellent method for deflecting criticism! Too bad it is not working very well any more...

No one said that Israel can't be critizized, but those calling for their destruction are usually racists hiding behind such supposed "logic" and pretending to be something that they are not.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[ColPyat]

The East owes nothing to the West and frankly any opportunity for the modern youth of Asia to show their contempt for the arrant hypocrisy of so called western values should be seized without hesitation.

Hypothetically speaking - would it then perfectly alright to model myself along Pol Pot, and make public displays of admiration for the Khmer Rouge, and no Khmer would have any right to state his disgust because i am not from his cultural background?

And, so called "Asian Values" as used in political speeches all over here, with emphasis on the submissive role of the individual to the state and its elites, when closely analyzed, are nothing but lame excuses for the upkeep of exploitative systems not unlike any other totalitarian system in human history, including the west's, and are as hypocritical in the face of the suffering of its people, if not more so.

Western values are unfortunately translated as American values, especially its real effects, which have very little to do with the the values in itself, as propagated by its elites mostly, though not shared by most other western societies, and also not by most Americans (unfortunately most Americans are not aware what crimes their elites commit in their name, by perverting otherwise admirable values).

For me - there are only existing certain Human values and aspirations, shared by Humanity (tolerance, self realization, health, education, work, freedom, etc.), which unfortunately both in the east and the west lag behind reality. In the developing and underdeveloped world maybe more so than in the developed world (especially when it concerns liberties and rights of their own citizens).

All major religions and value systems basically teach a compassionate society, in which the individual has the right for self realization only bound by rules of compassion, empathy and tolerance towards others - the less of that, the less developed. And reality of Asian societies presently lag far behind.

[qualtrough]

Those ###### Palestinians. Why can't they just accept that they don't exist, have no right to the land they were born in, and get on with their lives? What an unreasonable people. I mean, the Israelis have never, ever engaged in any kind of terrorism, we all know that, so why do the Palestinians?

Almost everyone in the world agrees that Israel has the right to exist; They are not going anywhere.

If Palestinans want their own country, it is (way past) time to deal.

The Palestinians blow up airplanes full of innocents.

The Israelis blew up the British Military Headquarters - their enemies - in the Hotel David after phoning to tell them to get out because a bomb would go off soon. The Brits said that they 'Don't take orders from Jews" and got blown up.

Not exactly the same thing.

What a joke! Where did you get that story? Of course they said they made a call first when they later came in for criticism. That is certainly what I would do in that situation. I wonder, did they call the folks at Deir Yassim first? How about Count Folke Bernadotte--did he get a call too? Such gentlemen the Israelis!

This is getting way off topic, so before the moderators step in I am here to say that this is my last post here on this subject.

Edited October 19, 2007 by qualtrough

[ZukiSuzuki]

"Depending on how it is asked, more than a third of Americans say Saddam Hussein was personally involved in those attacks [9/11]. In a New York Times/CBS News Poll in September, 33 percent of the respondents said Saddam Hussein was “personally” involved. In June, when Princeton Survey Research, polling for Newsweek, asked if “Saddam Hussein’s regime was directly involved in planning, financing or carrying out the terrorist attacks,” 41 percent said yes."

Scary realy.

[Ulysses G.]

What a joke! Where did you get that story? Of course they said they made a call first when they later came in for criticism.

That is a fact that is included in most history books.

My guess is that you are not only anti-Semitic, but ignorant as well.

Why argue about something that you have no clue about?

[Ulysses G.]

This is getting way off topic, so before the moderators step in I am here to say that this is my last post here on this subject.

Let's see if you can tell the truth about anything.

[ColPyat]

Ehem...

personally, i am not competent enough to have a informed debate about the Israel-Palestine problem, other than that i believe in the right for existence of both Israel and Palestine, and that huge mistakes have been made by all involved sides (which go beyond both people's directly involved).

But - i think the thread topic - Nazi celebration in Thai schools, and related issues such as acceptance of Nazi/Fascist ideology and/or methods in Thailand - give more than enough space for animated debate than going down an unsolvable and emotional Israel/Palestine debate.

?

Edited October 19, 2007 by ColPyat

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with everything that you have said here ColPyat, but I can't stand to see these politically correct "opinions" stuck in where they don't belong with no kind of response.

Please forgive me!

[elkangorito]

You people are puerile & are victims of your own thoughts. When will you all "grow up" & realise that it is NOT the actions or thoughts of others that is important. It is YOUR actions/thoughts/reactions that are of the utmost importance!!!!

Trying to change the thoughts of others is like trying to stop the weather from happening. Get real!!!

Besides, this thread is NOT about the occupation of Israel in the country of Palestine, it is about what "Thai Nazi school kids" did at their school.

[Johpa]

Expecting one society to observe the taboos of another totally alien to its culture always struck me as somewhat hollow and in reality has probably more to do with paying obeisance to that Western totem of political correctness rather than displaying a genuine respect. But the question still remains, why on earth should these children be expected to honour the memory of the victims of a European holocaust conducted a generation ago by a perverted society with which they have had no connection whatsoever?

What is it about the sanctimony of the West, so complacent in their arrogance, that their wretched history should contain lessons for those of the East who presumably must be grateful forever more for the the instruction. The hypocrisy is really quite overwhelming and in this case particularly ironic when one considers the plight of the Palestinians subjugated by their Jewish oppressors funded by dear old Uncle Sam who from time to time is not adverse to the odd slaughter whenever it suits.

The East owes nothing to the West and frankly any opportunity for the modern youth of Asia to show their contempt for the arrant hypocrisy of so called western values should be seized without hesitation.

Disregarding some specious analogies presented by the OP, the Thai people did indeed suffer during WWII from militaristic and fascist racist policies of the Japanese, allies to the Axis cause, and even the flawed teaching of history in Thailand does not totally avoid the story. Not that I disagree that people should highlight, and even protest when necessary, certain hypocrisies of "western values", whatever exactly those might be, but it is not healthy to take it to the level of self-loathing. For any school to dress up their students in even pseudo Nazi uniforms as part of some school activity is simply wrong no matter how you cut the cake: it is not a matter of honoring the memory of victims, which was not an issue here, it is a matter of not honoring the perpetrators of evil, and such people are not confined to the Occident.

[rainman]

In my opinion, this is all getting old. It happened, yes. We can't change it. We all study it in schools and we'll be studying for the next 500 years for sure.

But the Romans killed just as many Jews as the Germans did in WW2. And has anyone forgotten about the Egyptians before the Romans? People still dress up as Romans or Egyptians. Just like that, some people dress up as Nazis. And like Prince Harry, who does have an education I assume, he also dressed up as a Nazi. Big deal. They're not killing anyone, they're not doing anybody any harm.

We don't want to forget it, sure. But we want to all move on and let it go. People will have their Nazi dress-up parties for 1 day and then that's it. If we ignore it, rather than stir it, it would already be over. People do these things anyways if they want to. They already happened.

If we want the fire to go out, we need to stop throwing gas into it. Otherwise it'll keep burning.

Edited October 19, 2007 by rainman

[Ulysses G.]

If we want the fire to go out, we need to stop throwing water into it. Otherwise it'll keep burning.

[rainman]

If we want the fire to go out, we need to stop throwing water into it. Otherwise it'll keep burning.

Sorry, water was supposed to mean gas. I've been up for 24+ hours fighting a computer problem. Ignore me.

[elkangorito]

Disregarding some specious analogies presented by the OP, the Thai people did indeed suffer during WWII from militaristic and fascist racist policies of the Japanese, allies to the Axis cause, and even the flawed teaching of history in Thailand does not totally avoid the story. Not that I disagree that people should highlight, and even protest when necessary, certain hypocrisies of "western values", whatever exactly those might be, but it is not healthy to take it to the level of self-loathing. For any school to dress up their students in even pseudo Nazi uniforms as part of some school activity is simply wrong no matter how you cut the cake: it is not a matter of honoring the memory of victims, which was not an issue here, it is a matter of not honoring the perpetrators of evil, and such people are not confined to the Occident.

I wonder if they had any idea of this "wrongness". For one to assume that they did something wrong, implies that they knew that they were doing something wrong.

Who cares???!!! If only you/we could realise that our thoughts are controlled by ourselves & not "others", we could have a less complicated world...or is this process too difficult for a "developed" mind? This whole thread is silly...people slinging accusations at others for what? For dressing up in Nazi "look-a-like" uniforms?! Children wouldn't "react" as stupidly as some adults here are "reacting".

Get over it!!! The war has ended.

[Scott]

I had previously posted about our school where the students had etched the swastika on glass as an art project. The picture they used as a model was from the text book I was teaching from about WWII--so yes, it was not used in any religious context--which I am quite well aware of, and did ask about.

The inappropriateness of this was that it was a part of an art project--not individual students and that we had teachers who were Jewish. I simply advised that of the hundreds of pictures they could choose to use, they should choose something less controversial than the swastika. They didn't. I said nothing further because the situation doesn't affect me directly. I know that some of the other teachers felt very uncomfortable when they displayed their work.

It has to do with the lack of consideration for others. It also has to do with the fact that it is a school (and teachers) who are involved in this type of inconsideration.

At the school in question, I highly doubt that if any of the foreign teacher were consulted, the administration would have probably ignored them.

[elkangorito]

I had previously posted about our school where the students had etched the swastika on glass as an art project. The picture they used as a model was from the text book I was teaching from about WWII--so yes, it was not used in any religious context--which I am quite well aware of, and did ask about.

The inappropriateness of this was that it was a part of an art project--not individual students and that we had teachers who were Jewish. I simply advised that of the hundreds of pictures they could choose to use, they should choose something less controversial than the swastika. They didn't. I said nothing further because the situation doesn't affect me directly. I know that some of the other teachers felt very uncomfortable when they displayed their work.

It has to do with the lack of consideration for others. It also has to do with the fact that it is a school (and teachers) who are involved in this type of inconsideration.

At the school in question, I highly doubt that if any of the foreign teacher were consulted, the administration would have probably ignored them.

In any case, "tit for tat" is a stupid attitude. How long has this attitude been going on in other countries? And to what end because neither side will budge? Who will be the "grown ups" in this case?

How can anybody possibly expect Thai people to become more tolerant (less xenophobic) of others, if this tolerance is not displayed first? Afterall, how many times on Thaivisa, have you seen threads like, "Why is common sense lacking in Thais" (or similar) etc? Surely if "we", the supposed leaders in the world of "tolerance", show some tolerance, it will "rub off".

Come on people, this is not rocket science. It is, afterall, "TOLERANCE". And haven't we all suffered enough?

[blaze]

Expecting one society to observe the taboos of another totally alien to its culture always struck me as somewhat hollow and in reality has probably more to do with paying obeisance to that Western totem of political correctness rather than displaying a genuine respect. But the question still remains, why on earth should these children be expected to honour the memory of the victims of a European holocaust conducted a generation ago by a perverted society with which they have had no connection whatsoever?

What is it about the sanctimony of the West, so complacent in their arrogance, that their wretched history should contain lessons for those of the East who presumably must be grateful forever more for the the instruction. The hypocrisy is really quite overwhelming and in this case particularly ironic when one considers the plight of the Palestinians subjugated by their Jewish oppressors funded by dear old Uncle Sam who from time to time is not adverse to the odd slaughter whenever it suits.

The East owes nothing to the West and frankly any opportunity for the modern youth of Asia to show their contempt for the arrant hypocrisy of so called western values should be seized without hesitation.

Disregarding some specious analogies presented by the OP, the Thai people did indeed suffer during WWII from militaristic and fascist racist policies of the Japanese, allies to the Axis cause, and even the flawed teaching of history in Thailand does not totally avoid the story. Not that I disagree that people should highlight, and even protest when necessary, certain hypocrisies of "western values", whatever exactly those might be, but it is not healthy to take it to the level of self-loathing. For any school to dress up their students in even pseudo Nazi uniforms as part of some school activity is simply wrong no matter how you cut the cake: it is not a matter of honoring the memory of victims, which was not an issue here, it is a matter of not honoring the perpetrators of evil, and such people are not confined to the Occident.

Thanks for that Johpa.

[Johpa]

But the Romans killed just as many Jews as the Germans did in WW2. And has anyone forgotten about the Egyptians before the Romans? People still dress up as Romans or Egyptians. Just like that, some people dress up as Nazis. And like Prince Harry, who does have an education I assume, he also dressed up as a Nazi. Big deal. They're not killing anyone, they're not doing anybody any harm.

Romans and Egyptians are cultures that extended over centuries, sometimes being admirable and sometimes acting less than admirable. The Nazis were a short lived political party. Nobody is arguing that because of the Nazis one should not wear leiderhosen, although there are probably other arguments for not wearing that particular clothing item. And if Prince Harry wants, as an individual, to dress up as a Nazi, well that is his choice.

It is too bad that they do not teach much history in the Thai schools and it is too bad that they no longer teach formal logic in western schools.

[DamianMavis]

Expecting one society to observe the taboos of another totally alien to its culture always struck me as somewhat hollow and in reality has probably more to do with paying obeisance to that Western totem of political correctness rather than displaying a genuine respect. But the question still remains, why on earth should these children be expected to honour the memory of the victims of a European holocaust conducted a generation ago by a perverted society with which they have had no connection whatsoever?

What is it about the sanctimony of the West, so complacent in their arrogance, that their wretched history should contain lessons for those of the East who presumably must be grateful forever more for the the instruction. The hypocrisy is really quite overwhelming and in this case particularly ironic when one considers the plight of the Palestinians subjugated by their Jewish oppressors funded by dear old Uncle Sam who from time to time is not adverse to the odd slaughter whenever it suits.

The East owes nothing to the West and frankly any opportunity for the modern youth of Asia to show their contempt for the arrant hypocrisy of so called western values should be seized without hesitation.

Sieg Heil eh buddy?

Damian Mavis

[blaze]

I had previously posted about our school where the students had etched the swastika on glass as an art project. The picture they used as a model was from the text book I was teaching from about WWII--so yes, it was not used in any religious context--which I am quite well aware of, and did ask about.

The inappropriateness of this was that it was a part of an art project--not individual students and that we had teachers who were Jewish. I simply advised that of the hundreds of pictures they could choose to use, they should choose something less controversial than the swastika. They didn't. I said nothing further because the situation doesn't affect me directly. I know that some of the other teachers felt very uncomfortable when they displayed their work.

It has to do with the lack of consideration for others. It also has to do with the fact that it is a school (and teachers) who are involved in this type of inconsideration.

At the school in question, I highly doubt that if any of the foreign teacher were consulted, the administration would have probably ignored them.

In any case, "tit for tat" is a stupid attitude. How long has this attitude been going on in other countries? And to what end because neither side will budge? Who will be the "grown ups" in this case?

How can anybody possibly expect Thai people to become more tolerant (less xenophobic) of others, if this tolerance is not displayed first? Afterall, how many times on Thaivisa, have you seen threads like, "Why is common sense lacking in Thais" (or similar) etc? Surely if "we", the supposed leaders in the world of "tolerance", show some tolerance, it will "rub off".

Come on people, this is not rocket science. It is, afterall, "TOLERANCE". And haven't we all suffered enough?

Tolerance for what? the Nazis? the glamorization of Nazis? How about glamorizing Mississippi lynchers? Or middle East honor killers? Or foreign sexual predators caught in Thailand. Live and let live?

Bullshit!

Some things can not be glamorized. To appeal to moral relativism as some have tried to do in this thread is laughable. Thailand? That same admin has NO tolerance for some representations- that I can gurantee. This has nothing to do with tolerance and everything to do with a tawdry and childish attraction to pure power. And a blithe vague understanding on the part of the 'responsible' adults that the whole thing was a long way away and a long time ago and really didn't have anything to do with Thailand anyway and what's the problem anyway?

But remember this too, only one year ago the parents of some of those children were draping garlands around the barrels of tanks that had just taken over the country. Just as the matrons did in Berlin all those years ago.

[thaiman]

Nevertheless, in many Asian societies there is very strong political support for Nazi style ideology, militarism, and it's leader principle. Unfortunately in Thailand there is this support existing.

how is that possible when Thais (and Asians) do not fit into the Nazi concept of a "master race" at all and would most likely have been persecuted?

i can't believe how stupid this school was! it's like they were taking the piss!

why do people get so upset over something so pathetic? Thai people aren't perfect and never will be. They apologized, though they didn't have to, so let it go. Who cares about the past and mistakes made. focus on the future and how to better it.

[AlexLah]

Why is the denying of the (Number of people killed) Holocaust now a crime?

What about the other etnic cleansings in the world?

[Jingthing]

Nazis bad.

Holocaust bad.

Holocaust denial bad.

Thai schools parading as Nazis bad (but also kind of bizarre and comical).

Survival of Israel good.

Palestinian state good.

Next!

BTW, this kind of thread always does bring out the anti-semites.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Jingthing

[JetsetBkk]

Looks to me like a bunch of kids dressing up and having fun. Some people need to lighten up.