Stick Vs Automatic

[elkangorito]

It must have been fun to drive one of those multi gear big rigs:) They use the old fashioned, non-synchronized gear box, but I've heard that it's not too hard to get the hang of it. Those big rigs need all those gear ratios to take advantage of the narrow power bands in those big diesel engines. Where I'm from in the States, the big rigs can cruise along pretty well and often go faster on the highways than many cars.

From memory, it was a Cummins 2-stroke diesel with about 250 HP (small). And yes, the old "double shuffle" is a required thing.

I remember my grandfather telling me about his 1st Ford truck. It had a "crash box" (no syncro). His stories were valuable because with his knowledge, I taught myself how to drive a syncro manual without using the clutch (very easy). As a matter of fact & one day in Sydney, the clutch slave cylinder decided to fail. I was in heavy traffic with many traffic light stops & about 10km away from home. It wasn't easy in an FJ40 Toyota Landcruiser but managed it without a problem.

Edited November 10, 2007 by elkangorito

[asiaworld]

It must have been fun to drive one of those multi gear big rigs:) They use the old fashioned, non-synchronized gear box, but I've heard that it's not too hard to get the hang of it. Those big rigs need all those gear ratios to take advantage of the narrow power bands in those big diesel engines. Where I'm from in the States, the big rigs can cruise along pretty well and often go faster on the highways than many cars.

From memory, it was a Cummins 2-stroke diesel with about 250 HP (small). And yes, the old "double shuffle" is a required thing.

I remember my grandfather telling me about his 1st Ford truck. It had a "crash box" (no syncro). His stories were valuable because with his knowledge, I taught myself how to drive a syncro manual without using the clutch (very easy). As a matter of fact & one day in Sydney, the clutch slave cylinder decided to fail. I was in heavy traffic with many traffic light stops & about 10km away from home. It wasn't easy in an FJ40 Toyota Landcruiser but managed it without a problem.

Hmm .. Can you enlighten us more ... How to drive without clutch ?! Could be useful !

[Thaiboxer]

Non-synchronized manuals, often called "crashboxes" are normal on semi trucks and in stock cars (NASCAR). The clutch in stock cars is only used to start the thing from a standstill or for reversing. Once underway, the driver can simply push/pull the shifter into/out of the correct gears by careful timing and throttle manipulation. It takes practice to keep the gears from grinding, but once you get it down, you can shift VERY quickly as there is no clutch pedal to worry about. Semi drivers generally "double clutch", that is, they shift to neutral to time the speed of the engine to the desired gear ratio, then press the clutch again and put the shifter into the next gear. When downshifting, they also rev the engine to match the speed of the next lowest gear after shifting to neutral.

Synchronized gearboxes, the norm on modern private vehicles, don't actually move the gears around as the gears are always meshed together (except for reverse gear). The shifter knob simply moves gear selectors around which lock to a particular gear combo to create the desired gear ratio. I've never tried shifting without using the clutch, but I would imagine it could be done without the clutch through careful feel/timing between the throttle and moving the shifter.

[Lickey]

Getting going without useing the clutch, [ok if hydraulics have failed, but not if clutch has failed,eg,slipping badly,no drive ect] put car in first gear, turn key to start engine,gently touching throttle, this should get you moving, now most good drivers will know how much the engine revs drop to the next high gear {usually 500 on most diesel pick-ups] ok, so youve reached 3000 in 1st, ease of throttle while holding gearstick, gently trying to select nuetral, when the engine and box are in harmony, it will drop out easily, and the same when selecting 2nd, let the revs drop and gently feel the gear in and so on through the box. When you want to stop, feel the box into nuetral, and then start the process over again, it will get you home or to a repair shop, the key words being harmony and gentle and you wont damage the box. Perhaps some modern cars ect have inhibitors on them that wont let you start in gear, not sure on this one..

Brilliant idea not to use the handbrake, so when you really need it, all the linkage/cables are seized up and useless!! A service/preventive maintainace shcedule should look after all exposed links and cables by cleaning and lubricating, yes i know, TIT, but no reason you cant do it yourself.

After a lot of years driving, Manual is my no1, when i know ive got to slow down or stop, I put it in neutral, even from high speeds, when my way is clear again, i blip the throttle, select the best gear and away i go, to me, brake pads are a lot cheaper than drive train parts. Emergengy stops, dip the clutch and brake as ness, so as not to upset the stabbilty of the car ect

Anyway, thats my view on things, Rgds.

[Thaiboxer]

Manuals are great for slowing down the vehicle without relying entirely on the brakes, however I wouldn't shift to neutral and coast up to a stoplight. If you need power to get away from another driver/obstacle, you won't be able to move when you hit the acceleratory. Better to at least keep it in gear while holding the clutch pedal down or perhaps downsift a gear or two. That way, if you need a sudden burst of power, you can let the clutch out, hit the gas and get away from the obstacle.

[wilko]

Hi Folks...with many new thaivisa members, I thought I'd do this little survey again:

Which type of transmission do you prefer to drive...stick shift or automatic and why?

For me, I prefer the stick shift. In addition to its longevity and lower maintenance costs, it's more fun to drive. You have more direct control over the RPM's and it makes you feel closer to the vehicle. I'm on my fifth vehicle; my first and fourth vehicles were automatics. It took me a while to get comfy with my second car since I went to college in a hilly part of my home state, but once I got the hang of it, I've always liked manual transmissions. My fourth vehicle was given to us, so I can't complain there. Even with the BKK traffic, I like the stick and simply sit there in neutral until traffic starts moving again.

Also, I drive an oldie which is rear wheel drive and those have the advantage of not having to worry about those CV joints/universal boots going bad.

Let's hear what you guys think

If you can drive, you would want a stick-shift (manual)....if you just sit in a car an auto will suffice.

There re exceptions but for the majority of all vehicles I believe this holds true.

[wilko]

I can't believe were still having this debate in 2007. manual gearboxes are primeval. They are something of the past best forgotten. A manual box just like a manual tv without remote control should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

The thought of pushing that clutch in a few million times should be enough to turn most peoples stomachs.

We need a revolt were manual cars are turned over and burnt in the street.

you obviously can't drive then as you DON"T think about pushing the clutch.

The auto and manual have both been around so long it is hardly possible to call either modern.

[wilko]

Corner with a manual is one of the main advantages with the weight distribution and maneuvering control afforded by a manual change. Double de-clutching is for crash boxes but a rev-up between gears works wonders and can't be done on an automatic.

I agree though that for competition 4WD the new auto systems are amazing.

[keemao]

I love driving a manual car, however my latest car in Australia is an auto. The way they build them now is absolutely amazing. choice between semi auto or full auto. sports/ traffic modes. I have to say that the new cars are definately better in auto. But if you are looking at an older car, or want to save some pennies, manual is great. Especially in cars with limited power.

[Thaiboxer]

We definitely have an older car and it drinks A LOT of gas!! On top of that the old 2.0 engine/heavy body aren't conducive to good acceleration so a manual is in order. Even on modern cars I prefer a manual.

[Plus]

But they don't build them in Thailand anymore, ha ha ha.

[elkangorito]

I have really never understood this "semi-auto" thing. For the majority of my life, I've driven manuals. My last 2 vehicles in Australia were autos, one company vehicle & one private vehicle. With both vehicles, I have driven like manuals as appropriate. For example, when overtaking another vehicle, when going down a steep incline or when requiring some assisted braking. I seem to see a big difference between a "true" manual (a clutch) & the manual operation of an automatic gearbox. The difference being that the auto gearbox won't change into a selected gear if the revs are too high or too low. I'm sorry but I want to change into that gear NOW!...& not when it suits the gearbox. I know when the engine is close to max rpm & I know when the engine is labouring. Perhaps the auto gearboxes are made for "dumbarses" or lazy people?

If aeroplanes become automatic, we would all be bitching about how pilots are NOT operating the aircraft properly. Mind you, aircraft are almost "automatic" BUT the good thing is that pilots MUST be able to operate the aircraft MANUALLY.

Similarly, in Australia, you are not permitted to drive a manual car if you haven't had any experience in driving one. To me, this just perpetuates the reduction in driver experience.

[wilko]

Try putting cruise control on a manual!

But then then who wants to fall asleep and wake up dead or struggle to find the brake pedal after your foot has gone to sleep.....probably the mosst dangerous single "improvement " on the automobile so far!

Edited November 13, 2007 by wilko

[Thaiboxer]

I once owned a Honda Prelude which was a manual...probably a trick car back in the 80's when it was made. It had lots of features and I think cruise control may have been one of them. I may have tried it, but never used it regularly. Besides, I think it quit working after a month or so like many other things in that money pit

Where I grew up, cruise control wasn't much use due to all the traffic...even on the highways. It was usually featured on more upscale cars with automatic gearboxes.

Cruise control on a manual isn't as bad as a whole family on a 125cc motorcycle I've seen that in BKK more times than I can shake a stick at!

[torrenova]

I had a twin cam Alfa Guilietta with twin chokes and you could effectively use that as a cruise control.

[Thaiboxer]

Never heard of using chokes as cruise control, but I guess it's possible as the open chokes would let a constan flow of fuel in. I'm not familiar with the Alfa Guilietta...is that a sporty European car?

I once had a Honda CRX (version of Civic) 5-speed with a carburator. That little two seater got about 30 mpg...very few cars in the USA got that mileage back in the 80's when this car was built. Always loved the sporty cars for the handling

[torrenova]

Never heard of using chokes as cruise control, but I guess it's possible as the open chokes would let a constan flow of fuel in. I'm not familiar with the Alfa Guilietta...is that a sporty European car?

I once had a Honda CRX (version of Civic) 5-speed with a carburator. That little two seater got about 30 mpg...very few cars in the USA got that mileage back in the 80's when this car was built. Always loved the sporty cars for the handling

Here's a picture of the motor:

Edited November 15, 2007 by torrenova

[Thaiboxer]

That Alfa looks like a nice little car. Typical of European cars, they tend to be MUCH smaller than their American counterparts. I once drove a Ford F-250 7.3 liter turbo diesel truck when I worked for a company in the States. It handled quite well for a large truck and was easy to shift gears, but it took a good amount of work to push that clutch pedal down. Good workout for the left leg though!

[Jareddiving]

Did 330.00 km with my auto Volkswagen Passat without any problems of the gearbox.

Sold it to my nephew and he still drives it must be at least 360.000 km on it.

Modern automatics are great and not that much more expensive then manuals in maintanance.

Especcialy in Thailand.. Maybe a few hundred Baht more each time you bring it for service.

I have a Fortuner auto and a vigo manual.. Maintanance costs are about the same.

[Thaiboxer]

Interesting situation there...the automatic Fortuner being about the same cost to maintain as the manual Vigo. There are many factors, so I'm not surprised. Do you have your vehicles serviced at a dealership? If so, they probably take good care of them.

I take our manual Toyota to the friendly neighborhood mechanic. Without complex parts (it's rear wheel drive), any place can repair it and this guy is pretty good.