Lao Friendly?

[ISPY]

This week we went to Vientiane (Laos) to arrange new visa. We parked our car near the border en walked to the boundery.

As soon as we crossed the border we noticed that the Lao people are not as friendly as the Thai people. First we thought that we only think that the people are not that friendly.

After staying for 4 days in Vientiane (we walked and saw a lot!) we are sorry that we can count the friendly Lao people on one hand......most of the Lao people are stiff. But one benefit (comparing with CEI): there are a lot of Lao people who are able to speak (a little) English.

Besides that we found Vientiane more expensive (less cheap) than Thailand.

Has anyone also this experiences?

[sceadugenga]

Personally I can only add that I went to Vientiane in 2001 for five days and stayed nearly a year. My wife started divorce proceedings while I was away.

I loved Lao and I loved the people and the only unfriendly experience I had was when the Lao PDR Army came around and arrested me one night.

On reflection though I must admit they were quite friendly about it and released me a couple of hours after determining I wasn't a capitalist running dog spy.

[mcgriffith]

I have to ask this with the greatest caution and discretion, ISPY.

Were you traveling with your Thai g/f or wife?

I am not sure if you are aware of this issue, but I have read several posts on this forum (trip reports from Vientiene) of farang men, in the company of their Thai wives, being stopped by police. It appears there is a co-fraternization law....Laos is very sensitive about foreigners (men) in public in the company of women companions who might possibly be Laotian locals. You might not have been stopped by the police, but it might explain the stink-eye you were receiving....

[Farma]

I thought of the Vientiane people acted more like people under control rather than stiff. It was as if they didn’t want to get involved with foreigners.

Some items were more expensive than Thai but then again a lot of the items for sale came from Thailand. There were some bargains to be found if you were looking for traditional Thai style clothing etc.

I found the people in the south of Laos were more Thai like in my opinion. The prices appeared cheaper down that area too.

[totlanh]

I think the Lao people tend to be shy snd perhaps reserved and you might i suppose mistake that as being unfriendly.

[sceadugenga]

I have to ask this with the greatest caution and discretion, ISPY.

Were you traveling with your Thai g/f or wife?

I am not sure if you are aware of this issue, but I have read several posts on this forum (trip reports from Vientiene) of farang men, in the company of their Thai wives, being stopped by police. It appears there is a co-fraternization law....Laos is very sensitive about foreigners (men) in public in the company of women companions who might possibly be Laotian locals. You might not have been stopped by the police, but it might explain the stink-eye you were receiving....

Not in Vientiane Macca, the girls are more than friendly and the police don't care.

Up country it used to be different, I always took my girlfriend's friend with us and booked them a separate room. We could always have an afternooner if the mood took us but slept alone at night. Having said that it could have been over cautious because we were never hassled anyway and I was often complimented by guest house owners for "having two girlfriends".

I found the Lao people more friendly than the Thais in some ways, it took me a lot longer to settle into the village here than the Vientiane suburb I lived in.

[Dr. G]

Always found the Lao people very friendly and polite.

g

[ISPY]

I have to ask this with the greatest caution and discretion, ISPY.

Were you traveling with your Thai g/f or wife?

I am not sure if you are aware of this issue, but I have read several posts on this forum (trip reports from Vientiene) of farang men, in the company of their Thai wives, being stopped by police. It appears there is a co-fraternization law....Laos is very sensitive about foreigners (men) in public in the company of women companions who might possibly be Laotian locals. You might not have been stopped by the police, but it might explain the stink-eye you were receiving....

No I am not married to a Thai or Lao woman.....she is Dutch.

[ISPY]

I think the Lao people tend to be shy snd perhaps reserved and you might i suppose mistake that as being unfriendly.

May be.....but I do no what shyness is and how people behave when they are shy, at least I think I know.....but whatever...I spoke with an Englishman in the tuktuk (back to the border) and he had the same opinion....

[ISPY]

I thought of the Vientiane people acted more like people under control rather than stiff. It was as if they didn't want to get involved with foreigners.

Some items were more expensive than Thai but then again a lot of the items for sale came from Thailand. There were some bargains to be found if you were looking for traditional Thai style clothing etc.

I found the people in the south of Laos were more Thai like in my opinion. The prices appeared cheaper down that area too.

Yes, maybe "stiff" is not the right word..... Besides that: I am sure that they want to get involved with foreigners, certainly in Vientiane....at least: they make money from the foreigners....

[Farma]

I think totlahn hit the nail on the head when he suggested they were shy and perhaps reserved.

Even bartering in the markets took a lot of effort to get a decent banter going. My biggest surprise were the tuktuk drivers. They would ask if I wanted a tuktuk, I would reply "Bor" and they just gave up.

[my friend I]

Maybe the thrill of seeing tourists has worn off in Vientianne. I have found Lao people very friendly especially older french speakers who r keen for a chat.

[ISPY]

Maybe the thrill of seeing tourists has worn off in Vientianne. I have found Lao people very friendly especially older french speakers who r keen for a chat.

Yes, that's what we thought...

[toptuan]

Like the earlier poster said, there are strict co-fraternization laws in the Lao PDR. You need to remember that you are visiting a country under a totalitarian communist regime with a similar iron-fisted grip on the people as our troubled neighbors to the west. Over the last four years, at least a half-dozen bomb blasts in the capital are evidence of a restive population and minorities who feel this heat.

Most foreigners are a bit naive as to the real conditions and pressures that the Lao citizen lives under, particularly in the capital city. The Vientiane Lao are more under pressure not to be seen as too friendly or socializing with foreigners, as this puts them under immediate suspicion with the government. And you better believe that there are plain-clothes government agents running around keeping tabs on the citizens more than you'd care to believe.

Having said that, you go out into the countryside or southern Laos, and you'll find more of the normal Thai-type friendliness you've come accustomed to in Thailand. I once took just a two-hour bus ride out into the countryside (from Vientiane), and by the last stop, I had made friends with nearly everyone on the bus (all from rural farm families) and had two invitations to dinner. Very unlike the average Vientiane experience.

[sceadugenga]

Like the earlier poster said, there are strict co-fraternization laws in the Lao PDR. You need to remember that you are visiting a country under a totalitarian communist regime with a similar iron-fisted grip on the people as our troubled neighbors to the west. Over the last four years, at least a half-dozen bomb blasts in the capital are evidence of a restive population and minorities who feel this heat.

Most foreigners are a bit naive as to the real conditions and pressures that the Lao citizen lives under, particularly in the capital city. The Vientiane Lao are more under pressure not to be seen as too friendly or socializing with foreigners, as this puts them under immediate suspicion with the government. And you better believe that there are plain-clothes government agents running around keeping tabs on the citizens more than you'd care to believe.

Having said that, you go out into the countryside or southern Laos, and you'll find more of the normal Thai-type friendliness you've come accustomed to in Thailand. I once took just a two-hour bus ride out into the countryside (from Vientiane), and by the last stop, I had made friends with nearly everyone on the bus (all from rural farm families) and had two invitations to dinner. Very unlike the average Vientiane experience.

They must be tightening it up again then, it was relatively laid back when I was there in 2001/02. I had some trouble with a local Nai Barn but a friend who worked in a senior position in the main city/village office told me he was notorious for trying to squeeze money out of foreigners.

I made so many good friends there and knew many farang who were living openly with their Lao partners. (As was I).

I always though that the government was much more a hegenomy serving their own interests rather than anything resembling Communism.

[toptuan]

Like the earlier poster said, there are strict co-fraternization laws in the Lao PDR. You need to remember that you are visiting a country under a totalitarian communist regime with a similar iron-fisted grip on the people as our troubled neighbors to the west. Over the last four years, at least a half-dozen bomb blasts in the capital are evidence of a restive population and minorities who feel this heat.

Most foreigners are a bit naive as to the real conditions and pressures that the Lao citizen lives under, particularly in the capital city. The Vientiane Lao are more under pressure not to be seen as too friendly or socializing with foreigners, as this puts them under immediate suspicion with the government. And you better believe that there are plain-clothes government agents running around keeping tabs on the citizens more than you'd care to believe.

Having said that, you go out into the countryside or southern Laos, and you'll find more of the normal Thai-type friendliness you've come accustomed to in Thailand. I once took just a two-hour bus ride out into the countryside (from Vientiane), and by the last stop, I had made friends with nearly everyone on the bus (all from rural farm families) and had two invitations to dinner. Very unlike the average Vientiane experience.

They must be tightening it up again then, it was relatively laid back when I was there in 2001/02. I had some trouble with a local Nai Barn but a friend who worked in a senior position in the main city/village office told me he was notorious for trying to squeeze money out of foreigners.

I made so many good friends there and knew many farang who were living openly with their Lao partners. (As was I).

I always though that the government was much more a hegenomy serving their own interests rather than anything resembling Communism.

I think your post brings a good balance to the outlook. Maybe not so much a "tightening up" since 2001/2 as much as the source of my information (15 personal trips to Laos since 2003, and being close friends of persecuted minorities in that country).

[sceadugenga]

Ahhh... right.

The persecuted minorities are a whole new ball game.

I found that the "real" Lao people were generally indifferent to their plight, much the same as it hard to interest many Thais in the Hills Tribes and refugee problem.

[goski]

Well, I can only give a positive account for Laos even though I don't like to engulf myself in generalizations about total populations after just a few posts on the internet. So, when going to Laos it might help if you speak Thai or Lao, it helps in Thailand and thus it helps in Laos too. Now, compare the southern part of Thailand and the north. We basically all agree that the north is more relaxed with both attitudes towards westerners and also the rather light pressure the tourists put on the provinces.

But do we say that Thais are non-friendly because of a few southerners that act negatively because they are fed up with millions of tourists constantly popping up from nowhere? No, we don't and that's why generalizing like this about Laos just doesn't make sense. It also helps if you know your way around a bit so you don't have to deal with the touts and the tuktuk guys, which of course will try to get some extra cash from you since you don't know what you're doing. Different from Thailand? Don't think so, exactly the same thing is going on here. Even in Chiang Rai of course.

And this law about westerners being held up because of their Thai girlfriend. Never seen it happen myself and every time at the consulat there is swarm of guys with their supporting translators so I don't think that would be a problem, at least not in Vientiane.

[sceadugenga]

Well, I can only give a positive account for Laos even though I don't like to engulf myself in generalizations about total populations after just a few posts on the internet. So, when going to Laos it might help if you speak Thai or Lao, it helps in Thailand and thus it helps in Laos too. Now, compare the southern part of Thailand and the north. We basically all agree that the north is more relaxed with both attitudes towards westerners and also the rather light pressure the tourists put on the provinces.

But do we say that Thais are non-friendly because of a few southerners that act negatively because they are fed up with millions of tourists constantly popping up from nowhere? No, we don't and that's why generalizing like this about Laos just doesn't make sense. It also helps if you know your way around a bit so you don't have to deal with the touts and the tuktuk guys, which of course will try to get some extra cash from you since you don't know what you're doing. Different from Thailand? Don't think so, exactly the same thing is going on here. Even in Chiang Rai of course.

And this law about westerners being held up because of their Thai girlfriend. Never seen it happen myself and every time at the consulat there is swarm of guys with their supporting translators so I don't think that would be a problem, at least not in Vientiane.

Good post Gos.

[sutnyod]

Having lived many years in both Laos and Thailand (and speaking both languages) I can confirm that the OP's impressions are right.

In general, Thai people are more naturally friendly. In GENERAL! Of course there are friendly Lao and unfriendly Thai.

The issue of "Kwam Idsaa" is much much more prevalent in a Lao community than in a Thai one. This also includes the attitude towards foreigners.

In Thailand I was never cheated by a poor person (tuctuc driver, peddlar, market trader), but in Laos it happens all the time. (Usually, after you have bargained, the price is set. Except in Laos, where suddenly more money is requested.)

As for friends: the Lao make a very clear distinction between "Muu Linh" and "Muu Tdai" (play-friends and death-friends). It is very easy to find a "Muu Linh", but when it comes to Muu-Tdai (meaning someone you can rely on no matter what) it is different. I learnt it the hard way.

It also has happened to me in one country only that a beggar gave me back my money. I had given her a 500 Kip note and she said thanks but no, thanks. She wanted a 5,000 note.

[sceadugenga]

500 Kip!!!!

I'll bet she gave it back to you, I had one turn his nose up at a 1000 once. It was the little bloke with the trike who works the river area in Vientiane. I never saw him accept under 5000!

I suppose even beggars have their standards.

[sutnyod]

Yeah. Maybe there exists a formula somewhere, how much a beggar should expect in average (minimum alm or so). Probably based on populaton density. My, there are only so many people you could ask in Vientiane.

PS: beggars get whatever I find in the washing machine or what lies about in the house. If it is a 500 Kip bill it will have to do.

[goski]

Yes yes, it seems that we come out about 50/50 in this discussion on how Laos seems to be, which is perfectly alright. Because, as I said, this old tall story about the French being like that, the English like this and the Scandinavians are too shy they can´t be categorized. Of course it all depends on who you talk to and what they experienced. Since we all perceive the world in different ways this is just normal and very refreshing news since that is necessary for a forum (on the net and in real life) to survive.