Your Wife/gf Ending Up On 'police Hooker List'

[chanchao]

Call me paranoid, but this raiding of quite respectable bars (Q Bar recently) got me thinking. Not so much Q-Bar, but suppose you take your wife/girlfriend/significant other to a bar (beer bar, girlie bar, go-go bar even, etc) when the police decide to do a raid and check everyone for ID. Especially if it's a bar where some freelancing girls are around, what would be the risk of everyone (including your [Thai] wife) being forced to produce ID and her name ending up in Big Brothers Prostitute Database?

This would worry me a bit, actually. Or is this just one of the risks one takes living in a country that in spite of all its obvious merits may be in the process of gradually turning into a police state?

Cheers,

Chanchao

[theviking]

suppose you take your wife/girlfriend/significant other to a bar (beer bar, girlie bar, go-go bar even, etc)

Would you really take you're gf, or maybe , you're wife into such a place???

Well, then it's just the risk you gotta take....

[chanchao]

> Would you really take you're gf, or maybe , you're wife

> into such a place???

It's happened. Like when friends were visiting and after dinner wanted to go have a look-see in the bars. Then my wife mostly joins. (She doesn't partiuclary enjoy it, but she joins Also there's one particular shop-house beer-bar in Chiang Mai that I like a lot personally, but it IS however located on a strip of girlie bars. My wife has joined me there a couple of times, mostly during Songkran or New Years, but a couple of times in between too.

If we were to go to Bangkok and she would join me for a Saturday night out with my friends then it's quite conceivable that we might stop in something like Long Gun in Cowboy or Carnival in Nana (Mechanical Bull!) , anyway, whatever: it happens. Now picture a police raid at that time with everyone being ID checked..

Cheers,

Chanchao

[theviking]

Now picture a police raid at that time with everyone being ID checked..

Well, i guess there are other thai ppl allso going out to bars like that, but ofcourse, it will all be up to how harsh that police officer are.

I have been many times with my x-wife out on bars like that, but we never felt threatened, even on police raids.

Mostly, they will pass out all "normal" guests before thay start to check the id's.

But...sure....you can never be 100% sure.

[richb2004]

This would worry me a bit, actually. Or is this just one of the risks one takes living in a country that in spite of all its obvious merits may be in the process of gradually turning into a police state?

Cheers,

Chanchao

You make it sound like it is an inevitable part of living in Thailand.

Its not.

The answer is don't go to those places. Or if you do then don't take your wife/ Gf. Why would you want to go to those places with your wife/gf anyway? What kind of girl is your wife/gf?

[sabaijai]

. . . ending up in Big Brothers Prostitute Database?

There is no prostitute database, or if there is I can't imagine what purpose it would serve.

Prostitution in Thailand was effectively decriminalised by the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996, which made it illegal to arrest sex workers. This event was widely reported by the Thai newspapers throughout Dec '96. The Bangkok Post has also reported that no person in Thailand has been arrested for the crime of prostitution since 1992. I'm sure such a blanket statement would be hard to prove, but I personally haven't heard of an arrest in Chiang Mai or Bangkok in quite a few years. Pimps and procurers continue to be arrested/prosecuted from time to time.

As Thailand's delegate to the UN's Commission on Population and Development stated in 2000:

SUWANNA WARAKAMIN (Thailand) said that while her country had routinely addressed issues of gender equality and violence against women, it had also given specific attention to women’s economic empowerment and their right to equitable access to health and education. The Thai Constitution of 1997 had clearly stipulated gender equality and within its tenets were laws that would ensure equal opportunities for women and men, as well as addressing women’s rights.

She went on to say that the laws to address prostitution and trafficking of women and children had been revised to decriminalize the victims of trafficking. Investigation procedures and techniques had also been improved to become more child- and woman-friendly. At the regional level, a memorandum of understanding between countries in the Mekong subregion marked a new chapter in cooperation by identifying policies aimed at counteracting this transboundary crime.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2000/200...pop762.doc.html

At any rate, I would imagine the risk of such a thing happening - the two of you being present at a club when the police happened to raid it - coupled with the fact that all such raids thus far seem to be concerned with ID and/or drugs, rather than prostitution, is so low that it should be relegated to dustbin of your worries.

So take your wife out for a good time, Chanchao, just stay clear of the stuff that turns your urine purple.

[penelope]

i wonder when they will raid the diplomat bar..haha

[Richard W]

The answer is don't go to those places. Or if you do then don't take your wife/ Gf. Why would you want to go to those places with your wife/gf anyway? What kind of girl is your wife/gf?

A wife might go to keep an eye on her husband!

[Richard W]

. . . ending up in Big Brothers Prostitute Database?

There is no prostitute database, or if there is I can't imagine what purpose it would serve.

One of the officers at Bangrak, the district including Patpong, told me, in 1998, that they had a list of the prostitutes working in the bars. I suspect it may be a local list, rather than part of a national system.

It's conceivable that it could be a money spinner if someone is selling the list to the consulates, especially if it is kept up-to-date so that a girl's disappearance from the scene would be noted.

On a more positive note, it's possible it might help when they get problems with girls and their clients. Apart from anything else, it provides a ready starting point for finding a girl's associates. It might even help with identifying murdered prostitutes - aren't they a high risk group for being murdered?

[Khun ?]

Call me paranoid, but this raiding of quite respectable bars (Q Bar recently) got me thinking.    Not so much Q-Bar, but suppose you take your wife/girlfriend/significant other to a bar (beer bar, girlie bar, go-go bar even, etc) when the police decide to do a raid and check everyone for ID.  Especially if it's a bar where some freelancing girls are around, what would be the risk of everyone (including your [Thai] wife) being forced to produce ID and her name ending up in Big Brothers Prostitute Database?

This would worry me a bit, actually.    Or is this just one of the risks one takes living in a country that in spite of all its obvious merits may be in the process of gradually turning into a police state?

Cheers,

Chanchao

I think I would be checking the list quite often and asking the mrs. where is the extra money going she has been earning. Other than this I think this post is nonsense. By the way would that put us on the John's list that would help account for some money spent

[Khun ?]

. . . ending up in Big Brothers Prostitute Database?

There is no prostitute database, or if there is I can't imagine what purpose it would serve.

One of the officers at Bangrak, the district including Patpong, told me, in 1998, that they had a list of the prostitutes working in the bars. I suspect it may be a local list, rather than part of a national system.

It's conceivable that it could be a money spinner if someone is selling the list to the consulates, especially if it is kept up-to-date so that a girl's disappearance from the scene would be noted.

On a more positive note, it's possible it might help when they get problems with girls and their clients. Apart from anything else, it provides a ready starting point for finding a girl's associates. It might even help with identifying murdered prostitutes - aren't they a high risk group for being murdered?

What it might be is to is make sure the bar/club is paying taxes for employees.

I think people are making to much of this. We all know the social order agenda

and it fits in. The attitude Thailand cannot exist without us Bar hoppers and sanukers seems to be of no effect on the social order crusade. Does not bother me or effect me at all.

[chanchao]

I forgot exaclty where but I definitely read (from an actual source) the notion that a list/database exists or is being made. Also in Chiang Mai I was actually there when the owner of one of the bars told her employees to provide copies of their ID and house registration documents for the authorities to collect.

Of course this could very well be different/separate from any personal data collected during 'raids'.

Main worry of course would be that if your significant other ends up on any kind of list that's made available to various Western embassies that this would/could be a MAJOR problem.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Harry Palmer]

surely one visits a girlie bar to get away from ones significant other... sod taking her along unless she's up for a threesome... then that's a different matter entirely...

[chanchao]

> The answer is don't go to those places.

And stick to hotel lobby bars and other equally exciting places? Well sorry..

>Why would you want to go to those places with your wife/gf anyway?

> What kind of girl is your wife/gf?

Well you know.. the ol' two arms, two legs deal.. 5 fingers, two forward pointing eyes, walking erect, no tail.. female homo sapiens.. that sort, kind of.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

Ok sorry for the ridicule... The wider issue is actually that I find those tourist/expat kind of bars more entertaining and easy going compared to going to places with a young Thai clientele, no matter if these are pub/restaurants, 'pubs', 'teques', karaokes or what not. Inevitably if you're a couple you don't really meet a lot of people there, people tend to stick to their group/table. Also they tend to be high priced, kind of geared to people ordering a bottle of Black Label and either vegging out or attempting a conversation on their phones above the usually incredible noise level.

Now enter a typical tourist/expat bar, where you actually meet people, where beers cost 65 baht and rum-cokes 40 baht, which are easy going, where you can watch sports and actually meet people, both tourists as well as residents. Many of these bars will also have some girls working there, some of them perhaps semi on the game or 100% on the game or completely not on the game but I doubt this makes a lot of difference to police or Thai people in general.

(If it wasn't obvious already, I tend to prefer the latter type of place.

[siam]

My missus would never go with me if i wanted to go into a girlie bar,or go go,and to be honest she would want to question why i would have the need to go there,And if we got taken in we would phone her brother who is a lieutenant General in the Police

[Totster]

When I read this somewhere I though it was the bars that had to provide details of the employees, so I would say customers whether male or female wouldn't be affected...

[chanchao]

> When I read this somewhere I though it was the bars that had to

> provide details of the employees, so I would say customers whether

> male or female wouldn't be affected...

Yes. This of course depends on the police officers ability to correctly identify staff from Thai female customers. I suppose when being persistant enough they could be convinced of this, especially when the Mrs. doesn't particulary look like a bargirl. Of course quite a few girlfriends/wives of foreign guys really seriously do look like bargirls, and may even have been one at some point in time in the past. Like when you're a short black Khmer looking girl in a Chiang Mai bar, then explaining you're just a customer could (COULD) be iffy.

> My missus would never go with me if i wanted to go into a girlie

> bar,or go go,and to be honest she would want to question why

> i would have the need to go there.

Mine did too. Simple answer is that this is where you meet other foreigners and it's nice once in a while to be speaking English with someone, especially when they're actually a tourist from there; kind of like a reality-check. ;-)) Note that these aren't full-on sex-tourist bars like you get in Bangkok; in Chiang Mai it's a bit more of a mixed scene where there are plenty of bars that get regular tourists, backpackers AND guys interested in flirting wiht the ladies all in the same place. I find that appealing over most bars in Bangkok in the main tourist areas. (Also Khao San Road can be a bit like that, Gullivers bar would be a good example)

Anyway, on those occaisions where my gf did join it was rather unpredictable... Some bars, especially one go-go bar, she'd totally hate, looking physically very uncomfortable. But then the very next day she was dancing on the bar among the staff/girls in some shop-house girlie bar.. That was a fun evening. I consider myself VERY lucky to have found someone who can enjoy herself in all kinds of environments, from way respectable official functions down to partying in the bars and not feel too high class to just talk and be friendly with the girls who work there. I don't think this is all too common, looking at friends who married a high-class/middle class girl. (And especially those girls who just 'wannabe hi-so', those are the worst. )

Final Rant : I think police raids on bars that don't obviously break the law are very, VERY wrong and the prospect of regular customers being harrassed is just totally 'third world banana republic'. Is this really what Thailand wants to be like?? I can TOTALLY see the point in keeping sleazy sex-tourist prostitution-front kind of bars in check.. I can also completely see the point in keeping 15 year old students out of bars and prevent them getting drunk and crashing their cars & bikes. But fer Godssake, please then go raid bars like "Lolitas" or the other mega-sleaze bars, but what really does anyone in his/her right mind hope to achieve harassing regular high-class, high-spending tourists going to Q-Bar!? Raiding Q-Bar or perhaps in the future some of the mixed-scene beer bars in Chiang Mai is just un-Thai.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Edited August 18, 2004 by chanchao

[pnustedt]

I consider myself VERY lucky to have found someone who can enjoy herself in all kinds of environments, from way respectable official functions down to partying in the bars and not feel too high class to just talk and be friendly with the girls who work there.

I'll go along with that sentiment. Though I admit that I prefer to go without her sometimes

We went into a brothel by mistake once in Sisaket. Sat down and ordered a plate of Singapore Noodles - got some strange looks. Didn't realise what was going on till I noticed the girls behind the glass screen coming and going. All a part of life's rich tapestry and the noodles weren't bad!

[sabaijai]

Also in Chiang Mai I was actually there when the owner of one of the bars told her employees to provide copies of their ID and house registration documents for the authorities to collect.

What does that have to do with a supposed 'prostitute list'? I would think the owner of any bar would have copies of their employees IDs, along with plenty of other paperwork. Esp in Chiang Mai, where the police are concerned about illegal immigration.

Chanchao, I hope you're not also assuming that all employees who work in a Chiang Mai bar are prostitutes?

One of the reasons most Thai sex workers say they are opposed to the full legalisation of sex work - as opposed to the decriminalisation of 1996 - is that they don't want to be registered as working girls. I find it hard to believe that any Thai woman or man would work in a bar where the owner kept a list of sex workers for the police.

So I would guess this is a general practice oriented towards making sure all employees are legal.

Richard W, keeping a list of working girls in Bangrak to help solve potential future crimes involving sex workers either as perps or victims seems like a pretty good idea. Trouble is, how do they know who the sex workers are, since they aren't registered? Do they simply make a list of every man or woman working in a bar known to hire freelance commercial sex workers?

Either way I find it hard to believe that a Thai customer's name would end up on such a list. I assume if such lists exist, for whatever purpose, that the police would only be interested in CSWs' names on the list.

But I would agree with the other poster, Chanchao, if this really worries you, you ought to stay clear of bars known to have CSWs. Doesn't seem too high a price to pay for maintaining your wife's unstained reputation.

Edited August 18, 2004 by sabaijai

[chanchao]

> Though I admit that I prefer to go without her sometimes

Yes, me too. Not to do anything really wrong though in my case, but I agree that it's "fun in a different way" when you're by yourself.

> We went into a brothel by mistake once in Sisaket. Sat down

> and ordered a plate of Singapore Noodles - got some strange looks.

:-) Sometimes when you're seriously up-country there's not really much of a choice at of nighttime entertainment places and it's actually quite likely you end up in some kind of sing-along restaurant with girls in short silvery skirts and totally outrageous boots on stage, imitating cats in heat. At many of those places guys take girls out, but when it's the only place with any kind of entertainment and (mostly) pretty good food and all the beer/whiskey you need then even these places can make a lot of sense when it's Saturday night out in Bumfuk, Buri Ram.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[NoAjarn]

8 years ago in pattaya, the gogo bar managers had to photocopy each girls id card and the police would come and collect the copies every month with there bribe money, i assume this is still happening today..

[Richard W]

Richard W, keeping a list of working girls in Bangrak to help solve potential future crimes involving sex workers either as perps or victims seems like a pretty good idea. Trouble is, how do they know who the sex workers are, since they aren't registered? Do they simply make a list of every man or woman working in a bar known to hire freelance commercial sex workers?

I don't know the details - I suspect NoAjarn's given the principles. I've read of compulsory VD checks (probably just syphilis and a crude HIV test) - how would they be enforced? I suspect a lot depends on informal arrangements - we've heard of policemen providing part-time security, and at least one bar-owner is an ex-policeman.

[JemJem]

places can make a lot of sense when it's Saturday night out in Bumfuk, Buri Ram.

Cheers,

Chanchao

''Bumfuk, Buri Ram'' !

Hahahaha.......nice one, Chanchao

Cheers.

Jem

[kenk3z]

Well, it might be useful in case of future divorce if you just go ahead and get the wife on the Thailand hookers list. That would certainly impress the judge in your favor.

kenk3z

[sabaijai]

at least one bar-owner is an ex-policeman

Most likely many more than that. Several of the karaoke bars in Chiang Mai are police-owned, particularly in Santitham.

One right in plain view on the canal road has a large illuminated sign advertising (in Thai only) "Sgt Tui's Karaoke". I stopped in two days ago to ask about the name and they confirmed it belonged to a police sergeant. I didn't ask whether he was currently active duty, retired or otherwise.

[Ben Dover]

Anyone suggested yet that they start adding telephone numbers and hourly rates to the list? Now that would be useful.