"the Expat Rose Colored Glasses Brigade"

[OlRedEyes]

The term 'A Fools Paradise" comes to mind.

Well said.

[Pepe']

I have lived here 4 years, age 57, British. Came here because really fed up with how my once wonderfull country changed, and gets worse year by year!

Also think it stinks here to, there is nothing good about Thailand, apart from women and Thai food, and owing to my low income i can also have a good lifestyle here.

I have never been ripped off by Thai, only because they are not as cute as me, and never given away or lost money to a thai lady...so i bear no grudges, its just as i see it.

I hate the farlangs who grease up to Thai you know the ones who wear the yellow shirts! and wei everyone.

And yes i thank my lucky stars, that i can move on when i'm ready, and that is my intentions, and yes of course, i will find problems everywhere, because that's the truth.

But please don't keep saying the LOS, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS ITS NOT!

You sound like a wonderful addition to the farang population.

Where are you thinking of running away . . i'm sorry . . I mean 'moving on' to next, do you think? And when?

Benedix

1. its great to have you back...

2. it amazes me how mnay whingers are actually lving in Thailand for so many years yet never stop complaining.

it must be something to do with personal issues.

3. have you ever noticed that most of the bitching is done by those that dont even live here?? or used to live here

----------------------------

I just asked a simple question...

[GuestHouse]

Hello, GuestHouse!

Why might it be considered a fool's paradise?

A) Because only a fool would not be able to see that Thailand is not paradise.

Because Thailand clearly attracts a dispropoitionate number of fools.

I'm confused. Was the double negative intended?

By the way how is life in the Saudi paradise?

Still find time to come here, eh.

Yes the double negative was intended.

Saudi Paradise, I'm having a great time thanks, learning Arabic and enjoying my assignment immensly.

And yes I do still find time to visit Thailand, I get family tickets provided free and I get the same pay and allowances on R&R as I do when I'm working, so I bring the benefits of Saudi with me - Or rather the benefits of working in Saudi bring me and my family to Thailand for free.

The best of both worlds.

[ignoramus]

Bendix, your posts have been amsuing, infomrative and procovative, but I can asusure yuo taht I cuold out-articulaet yuo any daya. An'I'm an Ossey ! Iggy.

[highdiver]

ok pepe

there is no rose coloured brigade in Thailand.

there are expats who live here and like it and there are those that dont.

in the dont section there are 3 catgories:

those that dont live here and dont like it... which again opens up a whole new thread as to why are they on TV.

those that live here and dont like it... which again opens up a whole new thread as to why are they here?

and there are those that are just dont... they will answer any topic with a negetive reponse.

[tiger50]

I have lived here 4 years, age 57, British. Came here because really fed up with how my once wonderfull country changed, and gets worse year by year!

Also think it stinks here to, there is nothing good about Thailand, apart from women and Thai food, and owing to my low income i can also have a good lifestyle here.

I have never been ripped off by Thai, only because they are not as cute as me, and never given away or lost money to a thai lady...so i bear no grudges, its just as i see it.

I hate the farlangs who grease up to Thai you know the ones who wear the yellow shirts! and wei everyone.

And yes i thank my lucky stars, that i can move on when i'm ready, and that is my intentions, and yes of course, i will find problems everywhere, because that's the truth.

But please don't keep saying the LOS, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS ITS NOT!

You sound like a wonderful addition to the farang population.

Where are you thinking of running away . . i'm sorry . . I mean 'moving on' to next, do you think? And when?

Nothing to run from...move when i feel like it, sorry to offend you but i'm just not fooled by the LOS crap. And i'm having fun here, cheers.

------------------------

Ahhh fun, there's that word again. Thanks. Keep up the good work. It'll all be over before you we it.

This is all for entertainment, right?

I gave up taking anything here seriously a loooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg time ago...

Absolutely right, "Fun" is the key word, and i am really enjoying reading the arguments that go on in this forum....i myself will not get involved, or serious, as the forum is for helpfull knowledge No 1, and the right to express our opinions sometimes..

[Pepe']

I have lived here 4 years, age 57, British. Came here because really fed up with how my once wonderfull country changed, and gets worse year by year!

Also think it stinks here to, there is nothing good about Thailand, apart from women and Thai food, and owing to my low income i can also have a good lifestyle here.

I have never been ripped off by Thai, only because they are not as cute as me, and never given away or lost money to a thai lady...so i bear no grudges, its just as i see it.

I hate the farlangs who grease up to Thai you know the ones who wear the yellow shirts! and wei everyone.

And yes i thank my lucky stars, that i can move on when i'm ready, and that is my intentions, and yes of course, i will find problems everywhere, because that's the truth.

But please don't keep saying the LOS, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS ITS NOT!

You sound like a wonderful addition to the farang population.

Where are you thinking of running away . . i'm sorry . . I mean 'moving on' to next, do you think? And when?

Nothing to run from...move when i feel like it, sorry to offend you but i'm just not fooled by the LOS crap. And i'm having fun here, cheers.

------------------------

Ahhh fun, there's that word again. Thanks. Keep up the good work. It'll all be over before you we it.

This is all for entertainment, right?

I gave up taking anything here seriously a loooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg time ago...

Absolutely right, "Fun" is the key word, and i am really enjoying reading the arguments that go on in this forum....i myself will not get involved, or serious, as the forum is for helpfull knowledge No 1, and the right to express our opinions sometimes..

---------------

Now you truly see Grass hopper...

[tiger50]

I have lived here 4 years, age 57, British. Came here because really fed up with how my once wonderfull country changed, and gets worse year by year!

Also think it stinks here to, there is nothing good about Thailand, apart from women and Thai food, and owing to my low income i can also have a good lifestyle here.

I have never been ripped off by Thai, only because they are not as cute as me, and never given away or lost money to a thai lady...so i bear no grudges, its just as i see it.

I hate the farlangs who grease up to Thai you know the ones who wear the yellow shirts! and wei everyone.

And yes i thank my lucky stars, that i can move on when i'm ready, and that is my intentions, and yes of course, i will find problems everywhere, because that's the truth.

But please don't keep saying the LOS, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS ITS NOT!

You sound like a wonderful addition to the farang population.

Where are you thinking of running away . . i'm sorry . . I mean 'moving on' to next, do you think? And when?

Nothing to run from...move when i feel like it, sorry to offend you but i'm just not fooled by the LOS crap. And i'm having fun here, cheers.

------------------------

Ahhh fun, there's that word again. Thanks. Keep up the good work. It'll all be over before you we it.

This is all for entertainment, right?

I gave up taking anything here seriously a loooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg time ago...

Absolutely right, "Fun" is the key word, and i am really enjoying reading the arguments that go on in this forum....i myself will not get involved, or serious, as the forum is for helpfull knowledge No 1, and the right to express our opinions sometimes..

---------------

Now you truly see Grass hopper...

Showing your age Pepe...1970's David Carridene "Kung <deleted>" master enlightens student

[kat]

uhm, I like everyone and everything, and I think everybody should like everybody. The world fascinates me ..... fascinating isn't it

[Pepe']

uhm, I like everyone and everything, and I think everybody should like everybody. The world fascinates me ..... fascinating isn't it

-------------------

Would you include rapists and child molesters too...

[kat]

ok, I'll expound on that once I explain sarcasm - be sure to hold your breath.

[Pepe']

ok, I'll expound on that once I explain sarcasm - be sure to hold your breath.

------------------------

Sorry. I missed that one Kat...

[kat]

That's ok, Pepe. Anyway, to answer the question of this thread: a very resounding YES. But, since it is visible and controversial on just about every thread here, I can't be bothered with more than the glib comment right now.

[madjbs]

I have lived here 4 years, age 57, British. Came here because really fed up with how my once wonderfull country changed, and gets worse year by year!

Also think it stinks here to, there is nothing good about Thailand, apart from women and Thai food, and owing to my low income i can also have a good lifestyle here.

I have never been ripped off by Thai, only because they are not as cute as me, and never given away or lost money to a thai lady...so i bear no grudges, its just as i see it.

I hate the farlangs who grease up to Thai you know the ones who wear the yellow shirts! and wei everyone.

And yes i thank my lucky stars, that i can move on when i'm ready, and that is my intentions, and yes of course, i will find problems everywhere, because that's the truth.

But please don't keep saying the LOS, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS ITS NOT!

Let me give you a tip. You can take a bus to Cambodia for only a few hundred baht. Go to the eastern bus terminal and get on it. Oh and dont come back! If you think Thailand is so bad why have you been here 4 years? You say you can have a good lifestyle here and you also say Thailand stinks, what is it then?

[madjbs]

I think the comment below is as valid for those who failed in Thailand, and returned to places like oh I don't know - San Diego for example, as much as those who stayed.

Why do so many Thaiphiles condemn those who decide that Thailand is most definitely not for them, as 'failures'? I have lived and worked in eleven countries on three continents and for me, the positives of being in Thailand were seriously overshadowed by the negatives. This does not in any way mean that I 'failed'. It simply means I chose to move somewhere which for me, is infinitely better. Failure would be becoming trapped in a place which I truly dislike and then continually griping about it. Thailand is not the centre of the known universe, and some of us have horizons and options which are a little more diverse than just staying in Thailand or going back 'home'.

One question, If Thailand is not for you why do you need to carry on posting here then? Surely if you have left then there is no need for you to still be on this board.

[kat]

I think the comment below is as valid for those who failed in Thailand, and returned to places like oh I don't know - San Diego for example, as much as those who stayed.

Why do so many Thaiphiles condemn those who decide that Thailand is most definitely not for them, as 'failures'? I have lived and worked in eleven countries on three continents and for me, the positives of being in Thailand were seriously overshadowed by the negatives. This does not in any way mean that I 'failed'. It simply means I chose to move somewhere which for me, is infinitely better. Failure would be becoming trapped in a place which I truly dislike and then continually griping about it. Thailand is not the centre of the known universe, and some of us have horizons and options which are a little more diverse than just staying in Thailand or going back 'home'.

One question, If Thailand is not for you why do you need to carry on posting here then? Surely if you have left then there is no need for you to still be on this board.

hmm, well there's another way to justify thought control: 1) if you live there and are critical - go home 2) if you don't live there now, don't post

What a novel approach to free thought and open discussion.

*of course, it puts everyone in a bit of a bind, since the forum is hosted in another country, and many of the mods post from somewhere else as well, lol.

Edited November 11, 2007 by kat

[Rumpole]

^ Thank you, Kat. It never ceases to amuse me how many farang in Thailand will often seek to suppress any adverse comments about the country - just like the Thais themselves in many respects. This is a very interesting psychological phenomenon that I have not encountered among expats in any other country, and I think the reasons for it are exactly as Thaidlehands described:

Because one hallmark of the KJD is the inability to admit his mistakes. He's in denial since admitting Thailand's shortcomings would reflect back on him. He must paint everything in rosy hues; the alternative is to own up to the fact that his judgement is flawed but his ego won't tolerate it. He subconsciously resents those who can cooly and logically evaluate things as they exist in reality and who can escape the trap of value-rigidity and simply move on. He heaps scorn upon them but it's simply transference of the anger and doubt he feels towards himself.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Rumpole

[garro]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

In regards to the OP.

I find it annoying that he keeps pretending that he has this 'life is an illusion, mai pen rai' attitude when he deliberately set this very contentious subject in motion. What other possible motive could he have? He knew exactly what he was doing and I feel it speaks volumes about his personality that he spends his time trying to cause friction.

In regards to question of whether those who previously lived in Thailand, but left, are failures? I have no idea nor do I care. If somebody came for two years and lasted two years I would say they achieved their goal. If somebody moved to Thailand for the rest of their life and left after a couple of years I would say they failed at this. None of my business though.

There are plenty of people who don't take to Thailand for whatever reason. There are plenty of other places in the world they can go to. What I find unreasonable is their insistence that everyone else share their negative view of the country.

Edited November 11, 2007 by garro

[kat]

I think there are negatives and positives to everything, but this is a forum that primarily deals with the foreign experience of Thailand, full stop. I find it incredible that Westerners who come from a culture of open differences of opinion and experience berate others or try to control the flow of thought to how they think things SHOULD be conducted and viewed. What some may see as bitching is just a matter of honest and open discussion to others. I see that viewpoint as the most controlling element here, not vice versa.

As for people from all over the world joining in on this thread, well, I hate to break it to you, but that's the internet. Secondly, people may live in other places but still have attachments or investments in Thailand, such as marriages, relationships, work, research, interests - there is no need for a justification. If you have lived in a place for some time and have established relationships or experiences, then understanding the place and the culture is a lifelong pursuit. Furthermore, since there is such a split along these lines on almost every discussion thread, the OP's topic is perfectly relevant, and very much within the bounds of the forum and decency. If you are having such a problem with this thread and other's opinion, then perhaps you should follow your own advice and avoid those whose comments you don't like, or avoid the thread. This is how adults co-exist in the world.

Of course, there is the option of discussion and offering your dissent, which is what the thread offers in the first place.

I find it childish that people on this forum see a need for others to justify or explain this over and over again.

*So, Grow up.

Edited November 11, 2007 by kat

[Rumpole]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

In regards to the OP.

I find it annoying that he keeps pretending that he has this 'life is an illusion, mai pen rai' attitude when he deliberately set this very contentious subject in motion. What other possible motive could he have? He knew exactly what he was doing and I feel it speaks volumes about his personality that he spends his time trying to cause friction.

In regards to question of whether those who previously lived in Thailand, but left, are failures? I have no idea nor do I care. If somebody came for two years and lasted two years I would say they achieved their goal. If somebody moved to Thailand for the rest of their life and left after a couple of years I would say they failed at this. None of my business though.

There are plenty of people who don't take to Thailand for whatever reason. There are plenty of other places in the world they can go to. What I find unreasonable is their insistence that everyone else share their negative view of the country.

As Kat so eloquently stated, this is is discussion board, which by its very nature will result in diversity of opinion. People contemplating a move to Thailand come here for information, and should be aware that not everything in the garden is lovely. With the advent of the internet, some of Thailand's dirty little secrets have begun to emerge from under the rock. Had such a resource been available to me before I decided to work in Thailand, it would have given considerable pause for thought. As you say, there are plenty of countries in the world, but it is surely incumbent on anyone considering relocation, whether for work, retirement, or whatever reason to do some basic research first. How is it possible to do that if only rose-tinted, sanitized, TAT brochure type information is available? I am not at all insisting that everyone should share my views of the country, but my experiences, perceptions, and opinions are equally as valid as yours, as is my right to express them.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Rumpole

[PadThaiGuy]

I have lived here 4 years, age 57, British. Came here because really fed up with how my once wonderfull country changed, and gets worse year by year!

Also think it stinks here to, there is nothing good about Thailand, apart from women and Thai food, and owing to my low income i can also have a good lifestyle here.

I have never been ripped off by Thai, only because they are not as cute as me, and never given away or lost money to a thai lady...so i bear no grudges, its just as i see it.

I hate the farlangs who grease up to Thai you know the ones who wear the yellow shirts! and wei everyone.

And yes i thank my lucky stars, that i can move on when i'm ready, and that is my intentions, and yes of course, i will find problems everywhere, because that's the truth.

But please don't keep saying the LOS, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS ITS NOT!

You sound like a wonderful addition to the farang population.

Where are you thinking of running away . . i'm sorry . . I mean 'moving on' to next, do you think? And when?

More verbal diaherra from our resident British Hooligan. Grow up.

[garro]

I think there are negatives and positives to everything, but this is a forum that primarily deals with the foreign experience of Thailand, full stop. I find it incredible that Westerners who come from a culture of open differences of opinion and experience berate others or try to control the flow of thought to how they think things SHOULD be conducted and viewed. What some may see as bitching is just a matter of honest and open discussion to others. I see that viewpoint as the most controlling element here, not vice versa.

As for people from all over the world joining in on this thread, well, I hate to break it to you, but that's the internet. Secondly, people may live in other places but still have attachments or investments in Thailand, such as marriages, relationships, work, research, interests - there is no need for a justification. If you have lived in a place for some time and have established relationships or experiences, then understanding the place and the culture is a lifelong pursuit. Furthermore, since there is such a split along these lines on almost every discussion thread, the OP's topic is perfectly relevant, and very much within the bounds of the forum and decency. If you are having such a problem with this thread and other's opinion, then perhaps you should follow your own advice and avoid those whose comments you don't like, or avoid the thread. This is how adults co-exist in the world.

Of course, there is the option of discussion and offering your dissent, which is what the thread offers in the first place.

I find it childish that people on this forum see a need for others to justify or explain this over and over again.

*So, Grow up.

I don't think that expressing an opinion is trying to 'control the flow of thought'.

I also don't see how expessing my objections can be considered childish.

I prefer not to get involved with the endless negativity on this forum and have merely posted my views on this.

I have no control over who posts on TV or who doesn't; I am merely just one among many of the available opinions.

If you don't like my posts about the pointlessness of negativity, and my failure to see any point in this thread, feel free to ignore it or complain about it; or do what you want.

[madjbs]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

I agree 100% with you garro, that is the real phenomena. Luckily when you get out and about you find there is lots of positive people who don’t waste their time on here Unfortunately all these complaining whingers congregate here! Don’t be fooled that its a intelligent discussion either, while that’s what it may be for some other posters, the majority of the whinging negative posts are started for no reason except to whinge and be negative with the possibility of Thai bashing.

[garro]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

In regards to the OP.

I find it annoying that he keeps pretending that he has this 'life is an illusion, mai pen rai' attitude when he deliberately set this very contentious subject in motion. What other possible motive could he have? He knew exactly what he was doing and I feel it speaks volumes about his personality that he spends his time trying to cause friction.

In regards to question of whether those who previously lived in Thailand, but left, are failures? I have no idea nor do I care. If somebody came for two years and lasted two years I would say they achieved their goal. If somebody moved to Thailand for the rest of their life and left after a couple of years I would say they failed at this. None of my business though.

There are plenty of people who don't take to Thailand for whatever reason. There are plenty of other places in the world they can go to. What I find unreasonable is their insistence that everyone else share their negative view of the country.

As Kat so eloquently stated, this is is discussion board, which by its very nature will result in diversity of opinion. People contemplating a move to Thailand come here for information, and should be aware that not everything in the garden is lovely. With the advent of the internet, some of Thailand's dirty little secrets have begun to emerge from under the rock. Had such a resource been available to me before I decided to work in Thailand, it would have given considerable pause for thought. As you say, there are plenty of countries in the world, but it is surely incumbent on anyone considering relocation, whether for work, retirement, or whatever reason to do some basic research first. How is it possible to do that if only rose-tinted, sanitized, TAT brochure type information is available? I am not at all insisting that everyone should share my views of the country, but my experiences, perceptions, and opinions are equally as valid as yours, as is my right to express them.

The majority of posts these days on TV seem to be highlighting the negative.

I don't think this provides newcomers with fair and balanced ideas about the country.

When somebody tries to be positive about living here they are leapt on by hordes of posters accusing them of being naive and stupid or that they need to grow up. The idea that the positive posters are trying to supress the negative posts is a joke as this group is very much in the minority here.

[kat]

PTG

It depends if you learn from your experience or not, and experience doesn’t come hand in hand with age or the length of time you have been here. To me, if you are experienced at living and adapting to other cultures then you shouldn't winge and whine about everything you see or dont like because its different to your own ideals.

Foreigners cannot learn from their experience, if they cannot find perspective. You cannot find perspective as a foreigner, if you are not able to discuss your experiences openly with others. The only place we can effectively do that in LOS is with other foreigners or people open to our experience as an outsider. That is the whole point of this forum, in my view.

In Thailand there is reality and there's fantasy. The reality is accepting the fact that your a foreigner, that you've got no rights and the system, for the most part, doesn't work in your favour. The fantasy is deluding yourself into thinking that it's any other way than that. Once you understand that then you can move forward in life. Those that don't spend most of their time sitting on bar stools, drowning sorrows in pints of lager and blaming others for their shit state. Those that see it for what it is - a bloody facade, are able to work around it and actually make a life for themselves here.

This is an excellent post. I would argue further that open discussions like the one on this thread help foreigners to accept this reality and understand their surroundings better. We are able to learn from each others' experiences.

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

I agree 100% with you garro, that is the real phenomena. Luckily when you get out and about you find there is lots of positive people who don’t waste their time on here Unfortunately all these complaining whingers congregate here! Don’t be fooled that its a intelligent discussion either, while that’s what it may be for some other posters, the majority of the whinging negative posts are started for no reason except to whinge and be negative with the possibility of Thai bashing.

Aren't you guys kind of whinging here as well?

[kat]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

In regards to the OP.

I find it annoying that he keeps pretending that he has this 'life is an illusion, mai pen rai' attitude when he deliberately set this very contentious subject in motion. What other possible motive could he have? He knew exactly what he was doing and I feel it speaks volumes about his personality that he spends his time trying to cause friction.

In regards to question of whether those who previously lived in Thailand, but left, are failures? I have no idea nor do I care. If somebody came for two years and lasted two years I would say they achieved their goal. If somebody moved to Thailand for the rest of their life and left after a couple of years I would say they failed at this. None of my business though.

There are plenty of people who don't take to Thailand for whatever reason. There are plenty of other places in the world they can go to. What I find unreasonable is their insistence that everyone else share their negative view of the country.

As Kat so eloquently stated, this is is discussion board, which by its very nature will result in diversity of opinion. People contemplating a move to Thailand come here for information, and should be aware that not everything in the garden is lovely. With the advent of the internet, some of Thailand's dirty little secrets have begun to emerge from under the rock. Had such a resource been available to me before I decided to work in Thailand, it would have given considerable pause for thought. As you say, there are plenty of countries in the world, but it is surely incumbent on anyone considering relocation, whether for work, retirement, or whatever reason to do some basic research first. How is it possible to do that if only rose-tinted, sanitized, TAT brochure type information is available? I am not at all insisting that everyone should share my views of the country, but my experiences, perceptions, and opinions are equally as valid as yours, as is my right to express them.

The majority of posts these days on TV seem to be highlighting the negative.

I don't think this provides newcomers with fair and balanced ideas about the country.

When somebody tries to be positive about living here they are leapt on by hordes of posters accusing them of being naive and stupid or that they need to grow up. The idea that the positive posters are trying to supress the negative posts is a joke as this group is very much in the minority here.

Garro, let's be clear: if you have a difference of opinion, then that difference will be discussed, analyzed and possibly challenged or substantiated in a rational discussion. If you then resort to telling people to go home, or don't post, or complain that people are not saying nice things and they are somehow wrong because of it, then that is a crude attempt at manipulation and thought control, and then yes - you are the one that should pack up your toys and take a time out somewhere else for awhile.

[madjbs]

Foreigners cannot learn from their experience, if they cannot find perspective. You cannot find perspective as a foreigner, if you are not able to discuss your experiences openly with others. The only place we can effectively do that in LOS is with other foreigners or people open to our experience as an outsider. That is the whole point of this forum, in my view.

Why exactly do you think people can not learn from their experiences themselves? I certainly can and I am sure many others can as well.

And yes we are whinging about whingers (different ) but your comment is just a sidestep

[kat]

Actually, it's not a sidestep, I'm trying to have an honest discussion here. There are many things you can learn for yourself, but figuring out a foreign culture takes a lot of time, and in most cases a lifetime. As you go through this process, it is only natural that you reference back to your own culture, in the same way that you reference your own language when learning a new one.

A forum like this one helps to pool a diversity of experience and perspective in one place, and secondly, can possibly save someone's life through the pitfalls of misreading or making a bad cultural or social move.

**Thirdly, LOS is a very hierarchical culture that frowns upon open discussion and individualism - the very antithesis of most Western cultures. How exactly should Westerners deal with this pressure - by shooting or getting themselves shot? Isn't whinging, posting, and learning on TV a much better option?

*typo

Edited November 11, 2007 by kat

[madjbs]

I agree that this forum is a very useful resource and has at times been very helpful to me, however, there is still a certain level of unnecessary negativity posted by people just for the sake of it. I’m not saying all negative comments are bad, far from it, it's just that alot of it is not helpful to man nor beast. Perhaps the reason why some people cant stand this is that we fit very well into Thailand and Thai culture and therefore see this endless stream of rubbish unnecessary, while others may find it useful.

Edited November 11, 2007 by madjbs

[qwertz]

Thailand can't possibly suit everyone, madjbs.

I like the place because where else can I chill out so cheap?

I know most of the scams and also the good deals, so I don't come away feeling robbed.

This is however a Thai forum and if not everyone has had the same satisfactory result from Thailand, they should also be free to post about those negative experiences.

I find the thread informative, I don't have to agree with all the views, nor do you.