"the Expat Rose Colored Glasses Brigade"

[kat]

*Madjbs comment: "I agree that this forum is a very useful resource and has at times been very helpful to me, however, there is still a certain level of unnecessary negativity posted by people just for the sake of it. I’m not saying all negative comments are bad, far from it, it's just that alot of it is not helpful to man nor beast. Perhaps the reason why some people cant stand this is that we fit very well into Thailand and Thai culture and therefore see this endless stream of rubbish unnecessary, while others may find it useful."

Well, there you go: another person's trash is someone else's gem, so we've already improved our consensus by this discussion.

As for fitting into Thai culture very well - kudos to you! Again, maybe some are in the process of trying to do the same, and maybe some are not; maybe some learn how to do so here, and some realize here that they DON'T want to fit in beyond being respectful and polite. This may be based on more rational or personal decisions other than who is a better and more deserving person according to you.

As long as we all have the right to keep posting and sharing our experiences equally I'll keep posting; And if we don't, then I won't Have a Nice Thread.

*edit

Edited November 12, 2007 by kat

[garro]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

In regards to the OP.

I find it annoying that he keeps pretending that he has this 'life is an illusion, mai pen rai' attitude when he deliberately set this very contentious subject in motion. What other possible motive could he have? He knew exactly what he was doing and I feel it speaks volumes about his personality that he spends his time trying to cause friction.

In regards to question of whether those who previously lived in Thailand, but left, are failures? I have no idea nor do I care. If somebody came for two years and lasted two years I would say they achieved their goal. If somebody moved to Thailand for the rest of their life and left after a couple of years I would say they failed at this. None of my business though.

There are plenty of people who don't take to Thailand for whatever reason. There are plenty of other places in the world they can go to. What I find unreasonable is their insistence that everyone else share their negative view of the country.

As Kat so eloquently stated, this is is discussion board, which by its very nature will result in diversity of opinion. People contemplating a move to Thailand come here for information, and should be aware that not everything in the garden is lovely. With the advent of the internet, some of Thailand's dirty little secrets have begun to emerge from under the rock. Had such a resource been available to me before I decided to work in Thailand, it would have given considerable pause for thought. As you say, there are plenty of countries in the world, but it is surely incumbent on anyone considering relocation, whether for work, retirement, or whatever reason to do some basic research first. How is it possible to do that if only rose-tinted, sanitized, TAT brochure type information is available? I am not at all insisting that everyone should share my views of the country, but my experiences, perceptions, and opinions are equally as valid as yours, as is my right to express them.

The majority of posts these days on TV seem to be highlighting the negative.

I don't think this provides newcomers with fair and balanced ideas about the country.

When somebody tries to be positive about living here they are leapt on by hordes of posters accusing them of being naive and stupid or that they need to grow up. The idea that the positive posters are trying to supress the negative posts is a joke as this group is very much in the minority here.

Garro, let's be clear: if you have a difference of opinion, then that difference will be discussed, analyzed and possibly challenged or substantiated in a rational discussion. If you then resort to telling people to go home, or don't post, or complain that people are not saying nice things and they are somehow wrong because of it, then that is a crude attempt at manipulation and thought control, and then yes - you are the one that should pack up your toys and take a time out somewhere else for awhile.

Let me be clear, nowhere on this forum have I told people to go home or not to post.

I think it very unfair that you feel the need to misrepresnt my views in such a way.

Surely this must be against forum rules.

[track61]

now now, let us all be civil

some people enjoy living in a third world police state/junta and others do not, to each their own

the grass is greener where you water it

I always thought it was greener over the septic tank. Hmmm, that kinda goes with this ridiculous thread.

[madjbs]

Thailand can't possibly suit everyone, madjbs.

I like the place because where else can I chill out so cheap?

I know most of the scams and also the good deals, so I don't come away feeling robbed.

This is however a Thai forum and if not everyone has had the same satisfactory result from Thailand, they should also be free to post about those negative experiences.

I find the thread informative, I don't have to agree with all the views, nor do you.

I never said it suited everyone and I don’t mind informative negative posts. What I and other people are against is the useless, endless, negativity and bashing posted my some members. It’s similar to a screaming child or a broken record and it doesn’t help that some of these members are not even in Thailand. I also don’t understand why people that left Thailand do find somewhere that suits them better need to return and post this kind of stuff. I guess I will go back to ignoring it.

[kat]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

In regards to the OP.

I find it annoying that he keeps pretending that he has this 'life is an illusion, mai pen rai' attitude when he deliberately set this very contentious subject in motion. What other possible motive could he have? He knew exactly what he was doing and I feel it speaks volumes about his personality that he spends his time trying to cause friction.

In regards to question of whether those who previously lived in Thailand, but left, are failures? I have no idea nor do I care. If somebody came for two years and lasted two years I would say they achieved their goal. If somebody moved to Thailand for the rest of their life and left after a couple of years I would say they failed at this. None of my business though.

There are plenty of people who don't take to Thailand for whatever reason. There are plenty of other places in the world they can go to. What I find unreasonable is their insistence that everyone else share their negative view of the country.

Let me be clear, nowhere on this forum have I told people to go home or not to post.

I think it very unfair that you feel the need to misrepresnt my views in such a way.

Surely this must be against forum rules.

Now we are playing the semantics game. There are folks who have stated outright their desired consequences for different views, or people like you who have alluded to it with their remarks.*

If you are using this as the basis to cry foul and invoke the rules and mods, then you have just proven my point about childishness. Now run off to go find teacher.

I'm personally done with your redundancy.

* And in response to your post #157 below, re-read your own posts above for proof, yawn.

Edited November 12, 2007 by kat

[Heng]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

There are a lot of folks out there that feel that they have been wounded, betrayed, etc. by Thailand or Thai folks, in many cases they are correct, but in just as many cases they have done it to themselves. IMO most of these folks secretly long for that 'honeymoon' period where the LOS is not only rose colored, but truly a time of happiness for these folks. They are angry at themselves and at others when they see people who do make it here. The threads and comments are rather repetitious and along the same lines of 'don't move here,' 'the end is near,' and lists of all the things wrong with the place (which are often true). The excuse is that they are simply having a discussion (nothing wrong with that), but as someone who browses all kinds of forums, one rarely sees such a large and varied group of folks stung by a place and who cannot let go. You don't see people harping about how they were hurt by a particular stock, mutual fund, sports league, particular consumer good or product, etc. as much as you do on Thailand related boards.

Doesn't bother me a bit, but that's my take. Harp on, ladies and gents!

[garro]

Kat,

First you accuse me of being childish but now accuse me of playing 'semantic games'.

I think about my posts and do not post for the sake of playing games.

You accused me of something and when you failed to find anything to support your accusations so you returned to insulting me.

I am glad that you are done with my 'rudundancy' because frankly I have had enough of your insults and lies.

[PeaceBlondie]

Heng, excellent point just now, by you. I contacted somebody who went to high school with me, forty years before, and we both complained that our employer still owed us some wages. But then we got on with our lives, both in the distant past and forty years later. But if you come across the world, try to set down roots, maybe marry somebody who leaves you, or takes most of your life's savings, get screwed by your employer, etc., you're not likely to get over it.

Meanwhile, Pepe' stirred up the shit and now gloats that he was just serious about being nonserious, and mai bpen rai really matters.

You come to a place, and give it your best shot. If later you realize you cannot adapt or you don't like it (that can take two months or ten years), you move on to another place, reluctantly admitting you made some mistakes. Unless, of course, you're stuck inside the country and can't afford to move or admit the mistakes.

[Neeranam]

Hello, GuestHouse!

Why might it be considered a fool's paradise?

A) Because only a fool would not be able to see that Thailand is not paradise.

Because Thailand clearly attracts a dispropoitionate number of fools.

I'm confused. Was the double negative intended?

By the way how is life in the Saudi paradise?

Still find time to come here, eh.

Yes the double negative was intended.

Saudi Paradise, I'm having a great time thanks, learning Arabic and enjoying my assignment immensly.

And yes I do still find time to visit Thailand, I get family tickets provided free and I get the same pay and allowances on R&R as I do when I'm working, so I bring the benefits of Saudi with me - Or rather the benefits of working in Saudi bring me and my family to Thailand for free.

The best of both worlds.

I'd say Saudi Arabia attracts a greater number of fools. Breadheads in denial.

[PeaceBlondie]

I thought of the title, by Dylan: "Stuck Inside of Mobile, with the Memphis Blues, Again."

[kat]

Meanwhile, Pepe' stirred up the shit and now gloats that he was just serious about being nonserious, and mai bpen rai really matters.

Yes, you could be right about this, but perhaps it's a discussion that needed to happen. Look at the size of the thread, nah.

*do you have the blues, PB?

Edited November 12, 2007 by kat

[Neeranam]

I thought of the title, by Dylan: "Stuck Inside of Mobile, with the Memphis Blues, Again."

My first trip to Thailand were spent near a restaurant in Koh Pa Ngan, with a song called "Absolutely Sweet Marie" playing at least 3 times a day. How sweet it was too! Shared a beach bungalow(right on t beach for 50 aht a night) too with a hippy Red Indian girl called Maria from Spanish/South American parents. I thought the Thai women were ugly then. Actually, I'm surprised it wasn't that song about everybody getting stoned - there were sooo many drugs back in 1992/3 on KPN.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Neeranam

[Scott]

I have lived/worked in 15 countries. I spent a number of years in Thailand, and now have returned (10 years or so). I have never worked in a country I truly hated or truly loved. Once you learn the rules, i.e., the culture, people are all pretty much the same. Some places are easier to live in than others and some I liked more than others. This includes Thailand, which happens to be one of the easier countries to live in.

No matter how hard one tries, they will never be anything other than what they are. In the case of Thailand, I will never be Thai, I will never be able to think or act like a Thai and I will never be accepted in the same way that a Thai person is. Appreciated, yes, by some, but certainly not all.

Fortunately, I have my own country and probably someday will return there. It is, after all, my home. For now, however, I will continue to enjoy (and be angry and upset and all the other emotions) with Thailand.

[naka]

Hello, GuestHouse!

Why might it be considered a fool's paradise?

A) Because only a fool would not be able to see that Thailand is not paradise.

Because Thailand clearly attracts a dispropoitionate number of fools.

I'm confused. Was the double negative intended?

By the way how is life in the Saudi paradise?

Still find time to come here, eh.

Yes the double negative was intended.

Saudi Paradise, I'm having a great time thanks, learning Arabic and enjoying my assignment immensly.

And yes I do still find time to visit Thailand, I get family tickets provided free and I get the same pay and allowances on R&R as I do when I'm working, so I bring the benefits of Saudi with me - Or rather the benefits of working in Saudi bring me and my family to Thailand for free.

The best of both worlds.

I'd say Saudi Arabia attracts a greater number of fools. Breadheads in denial.

Ah ! Breadheads ... Disparaging hippy slang for people with money ... most commonly used by people with nowt.

Naka.

Edited November 12, 2007 by naka

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

I can deal with overly negative comments.

I can deal with overly positive comments.

But sad retired and very clueless Farang gits do get to me. This website desperately needs a rating system where people rate each other, and you can tune out certain people. (or most people, it seems sometimes.)

[longway]

Meanwhile, Pepe' stirred up the shit and now gloats that he was just serious about being nonserious, and mai bpen rai really matters.

Yes, you could be right about this, but perhaps it's a discussion that needed to happen. Look at the size of the thread, nah.

*do you have the blues, PB?

this whole thread is pretty redundant imo. its just designed to stir shit the only reason it exists is to laugh at people getting riled up about nothing.

one man's meat is anothers poison.

[mellow1]

With me it depends on what's going on, if everything is well then I see things through rose colored glasses. If I get stopped by the boys in brown in order to get a donation, or a vendor tries to overcharge me, the glasses come off and I bash. I know its not good to have these types of emotional swings, but I put it off to being human. As for money, I have never experienced a surplus, I can always use more, weird isn't it.

My glasses are on when I get stopped for speeding by the BIB on the long trip up to khon Kaen. 2 mins time I am on my way minus 3-500bht ....It would cost me over 4000bht and 3 points back in the Uk...(12 points is an instant ban from driving and massive increase in car insurrance)

I'm glad for you in having found a cheap way of breaking the law, and feel smug about it. I'm also glad to read that it only extends to traffic laws ( hopefully ), and that your not a killer, or child molester escaping justice by also paying bribes. The rampant corruption is something rose colored glasses can't hide. It affects the country in every aspect. It is one of the biggest, if not the biggest problem that Thailand is facing. I'm sure more people fueling this system are needed. You have found the right place to be.

[bingobongo]

What I find strange is the number of people who decided that Thailand wasn't right for them yet spend their time on Thai Visa bitching about the place. I wonder do they stalk ex-girlfriends too? It all seems a bit sad to me.

If I ever have enough of Thailand I will not be wasting my time visiting forums about the place but instead just move on with my life.

I think people need to accept that Thailand is what it is.

In regards to the OP.

I find it annoying that he keeps pretending that he has this 'life is an illusion, mai pen rai' attitude when he deliberately set this very contentious subject in motion. What other possible motive could he have? He knew exactly what he was doing and I feel it speaks volumes about his personality that he spends his time trying to cause friction.

In regards to question of whether those who previously lived in Thailand, but left, are failures? I have no idea nor do I care. If somebody came for two years and lasted two years I would say they achieved their goal. If somebody moved to Thailand for the rest of their life and left after a couple of years I would say they failed at this. None of my business though.

There are plenty of people who don't take to Thailand for whatever reason. There are plenty of other places in the world they can go to. What I find unreasonable is their insistence that everyone else share their negative view of the country.

As Kat so eloquently stated, this is is discussion board, which by its very nature will result in diversity of opinion. People contemplating a move to Thailand come here for information, and should be aware that not everything in the garden is lovely. With the advent of the internet, some of Thailand's dirty little secrets have begun to emerge from under the rock. Had such a resource been available to me before I decided to work in Thailand, it would have given considerable pause for thought. As you say, there are plenty of countries in the world, but it is surely incumbent on anyone considering relocation, whether for work, retirement, or whatever reason to do some basic research first. How is it possible to do that if only rose-tinted, sanitized, TAT brochure type information is available? I am not at all insisting that everyone should share my views of the country, but my experiences, perceptions, and opinions are equally as valid as yours, as is my right to express them.

The majority of posts these days on TV seem to be highlighting the negative.

I don't think this provides newcomers with fair and balanced ideas about the country.

When somebody tries to be positive about living here they are leapt on by hordes of posters accusing them of being naive and stupid or that they need to grow up. The idea that the positive posters are trying to supress the negative posts is a joke as this group is very much in the minority here.

not sure how long you have been brainwashed, but what is so great about a country that has disintegrated into a police state/junta, where free speech is repressed and civil rights thrown out the window? what a paradise, there is more to life than bargirls, beaches, sun, and som tham. i dont hate thailand, but i do hate the boys in green and the police state LOS has become

[jumnien]

Birds, trees, grass, blue sky, puffy clouds, a passing neighbor now and then; as I glance out the window I don't see any police anywhere? Exactly where do you live Mr. Bingo?

[markwhite]

Not that I feel the need to defend KJDs as such, but this is an interesting post in itself:

Because one hallmark of the KJD is the inability to admit his mistakes.

There is the view that there is no such thing as a mistake. Learning is a process of trying different things and evaluating the outcome, and changing behaviour as a result. If something is done that results in a change to behaviour that is more appropriate to a situation, it's something positive. It can be difficult then to view it as merely a mistake.

He's in denial since admitting Thailand's shortcomings would reflect back on him.

*Everything* reflects back at the observer, so...

He must paint everything in rosy hues;

...if the observer views few problems in themselves, they have no need to pick fault at things external to themselves. Or they can accept that the problem they see as being external is really an internal one.

the alternative is to own up to the fact that his judgement is flawed but his ego won't tolerate it.

You're applying this to the KJD group, but this applies pretty much to everyone in every situation, no?

He subconsciously resents those who can cooly and logically evaluate things as they exist in reality

They might not need to rely upon cool logic in the same way that others do. Something that those who only use cool logic will find it difficult to appreciate or accept this. They might understand that reality is relative, or completely subjective, and no one definition of it will be acceptable to all people.

He heaps scorn upon them but it's simply transference of the anger and doubt he feels towards himself.

Are you heaping scorn on KJDs with this post?

[garro]

Well bingobongo, you may consider my brainwashed but as I said previously it is my temprement to look for the positive in life.

I'll tell you a story,

in my early twenties I was a homeless drunk guy on the streets of London.

This wasn't really for me so I decided to literally pull myself out of the gutter.

I was penniless, but I made a success out of my life; because you see even in the gutter I could see the positive in life.

If I had listened the negative people, such as those on Thai Visa, I would still be lying in the gutter covered in my own sick and shit.

I have seen first hand the power that positivity can have on on my llfe and I have learnt to avoid negative types.

I love my life and believe it is my attitude, not the place, that makes me happy.

When I share my positive feelings on this forum I have my intelligence questioned.

Their jibes do not bother me as I have dealt with these types all my life.

Some people do have genuine complaints and air them on TV but their are others who feed on this negativity.

[Neeranam]

Well bingobongo, you may consider my brainwashed but as I said previously it is my temprement to look for the positive in life.

I'll tell you a story,

in my early twenties I was a homeless drunk guy on the streets of London.

This wasn't really for me so I decided to literally pull myself out of the gutter.

I was penniless, but I made a success out of my life; because you see even in the gutter I could see the positive in life.

If I had listened the negative people, such as those on Thai Visa, I would still be lying in the gutter covered in my own sick and shit.

I have seen first hand the power that positivity can have on on my llfe and I have learnt to avoid negative types.

I love my life and believe it is my attitude, not the place, that makes me happy.

When I share my positive feelings on this forum I have my intelligence questioned.

Their jibes do not bother me as I have dealt with these types all my life.

Some people do have genuine complaints and air them on TV but their are others who feed on this negativity.

Good post mate and so true!

Beware though the "born with a silver chopstick up their arse crew" will try to bring you down as will the "today is not important , work your arse off in hel_l and retire happy lot"

[madjbs]

Well bingobongo, you may consider my brainwashed but as I said previously it is my temprement to look for the positive in life.

I'll tell you a story,

in my early twenties I was a homeless drunk guy on the streets of London.

This wasn't really for me so I decided to literally pull myself out of the gutter.

I was penniless, but I made a success out of my life; because you see even in the gutter I could see the positive in life.

If I had listened the negative people, such as those on Thai Visa, I would still be lying in the gutter covered in my own sick and shit.

I have seen first hand the power that positivity can have on on my llfe and I have learnt to avoid negative types.

I love my life and believe it is my attitude, not the place, that makes me happy.

When I share my positive feelings on this forum I have my intelligence questioned.

Their jibes do not bother me as I have dealt with these types all my life.

Some people do have genuine complaints and air them on TV but their are others who feed on this negativity.

Great post garro!!

[TheDon]

Well bingobongo, you may consider my brainwashed but as I said previously it is my temprement to look for the positive in life.

I'll tell you a story,

in my early twenties I was a homeless drunk guy on the streets of London.

This wasn't really for me so I decided to literally pull myself out of the gutter.

I was penniless, but I made a success out of my life; because you see even in the gutter I could see the positive in life.

If I had listened the negative people, such as those on Thai Visa, I would still be lying in the gutter covered in my own sick and shit.

I have seen first hand the power that positivity can have on on my llfe and I have learnt to avoid negative types.

I love my life and believe it is my attitude, not the place, that makes me happy.

When I share my positive feelings on this forum I have my intelligence questioned.

Their jibes do not bother me as I have dealt with these types all my life.

Some people do have genuine complaints and air them on TV but their are others who feed on this negativity.

Great post garro!!

Definately one of the best posts on Thaivisa.

And so true, people just tend to over think situations too much to find a negative.

Some people have genuine concerns but alot is just way over the top

[WaiWai]

Thank you, Kat. It never ceases to amuse me how many farang in Thailand will often seek to suppress any adverse comments about the country - just like the Thais themselves in many respects. This is a very interesting psychological phenomenon that I have not encountered among expats in any other country, and I think the reasons for it are exactly as Thaidlehands described:

...

QUOTE (ThaidleHands @ 2007-11-12 00:47:35)

Because one hallmark of the KJD is the inability to admit his mistakes. He's in denial since admitting Thailand's shortcomings would reflect back on him. He must paint everything in rosy hues; the alternative is to own up to the fact that his judgement is flawed but his ego won't tolerate it. He subconsciously resents those who can cooly and logically evaluate things as they exist in reality and who can escape the trap of value-rigidity and simply move on. He heaps scorn upon them but it's simply transference of the anger and doubt he feels towards himself.

I agree that there's a sector of the expat population who fit this description. However I often wonder if they really have convinced themselves their lives are wonderful, or merely feel a need to present that picture to others - perhaps, in particular, the folks back home who may see things in rather a different light. Many of these people have left behind painful/messy ends of relationships/businesses, and do seem, in one way or another, to have become locked into living out their lives here. They seem to have a need to pointedly "talk down" their previous lives and "talk up" their new ones. One cannot help feeling they protest too much. The genuinely contented people don't carry on about it .

Interesting how much emotion this topic has brought out.

[qualtrough]

Lot of straw man arguments* here about farangs who want to shut out any criticism of Thailand. I rarely see that here. More often I see people responding to posters who complain about 'Thais' as if they were some cookie-cutter mono-format human beings who all believe and act in the same way. There are no doubt things wrong here, and I have no problem with those who raise those issues. What I have a problem with is those who make sweeping judgments based on what is often there own very limited perspective. What SBK wrote early in this thread about the 3 stages of expat life rings very true. A lot of the group 2 people who hate all things Thai are not just satisfied with that, but want everyone else to get on their bandwagon, and it makes them very angry when they encounter someone who has any view that is counter to theirs. In their world anyone who doesn't agree with them that everything is wrong here is 'wearing rose colored glasses'. This behavior is not restricted to Thailand. The funny thing is that the vast majority of the 'hate all things Thai 24/7' group were once in the 'Thailand is Perfect' group, and part of their anger is due to their feeling they have been deceived when ironically they were the ones who deceived themselves.

*Simply defined: A made-up version of an opponent’s argument that can easily be defeated.

[TheDon]

Thank you, Kat. It never ceases to amuse me how many farang in Thailand will often seek to suppress any adverse comments about the country - just like the Thais themselves in many respects. This is a very interesting psychological phenomenon that I have not encountered among expats in any other country, and I think the reasons for it are exactly as Thaidlehands described:

...

QUOTE (ThaidleHands @ 2007-11-12 00:47:35)

Because one hallmark of the KJD is the inability to admit his mistakes. He's in denial since admitting Thailand's shortcomings would reflect back on him. He must paint everything in rosy hues; the alternative is to own up to the fact that his judgement is flawed but his ego won't tolerate it. He subconsciously resents those who can cooly and logically evaluate things as they exist in reality and who can escape the trap of value-rigidity and simply move on. He heaps scorn upon them but it's simply transference of the anger and doubt he feels towards himself.

I agree that there's a sector of the expat population who fit this description. However I often wonder if they really have convinced themselves their lives are wonderful, or merely feel a need to present that picture to others - perhaps, in particular, the folks back home who may see things in rather a different light. Many of these people have left behind painful/messy ends of relationships/businesses, and do seem, in one way or another, to have become locked into living out their lives here. They seem to have a need to pointedly "talk down" their previous lives and "talk up" their new ones. One cannot help feeling they protest too much. The genuinely contented people don't carry on about it .

Interesting how much emotion this topic has brought out.

i doubt that is true with most people that are happy there, but even if it was there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Also you can say the same thing when flipping it the other way, some people think that Thailand owes them something.

Im sure your right in some cases too

[TonyLeung]

If you have bad experiences in Thailand, they came at the expense of your own choices and freewill.

If you choose the wrong woman(women) to marry, its your fault.

If you opened a business and found that you couldn't manage Thai employees because they are not as smart as you, its your fault.

If the pool guys over charged you and installed inferior products, its your fault.

If you got in a fight with a tuk tuk driver over 20 baht and he stabbed you, its your fault.

Looking up to the heavens and thinking of yourself as the underdog isn't going to help things. There is never any reason to complain about anything in this world. Being jealous of people who have had more satisfying experiences than yourself also won't help you.

Edited November 12, 2007 by TonyLeung

[TheDon]

Lot of straw man arguments* here about farangs who want to shut out any criticism of Thailand. I rarely see that here. More often I see people responding to posters who complain about 'Thais' as if they were some cookie-cutter mono-format human beings who all believe and act in the same way. There are no doubt things wrong here, and I have no problem with those who raise those issues. What I have a problem with is those who make sweeping judgments based on what is often there own very limited perspective. What SBK wrote early in this thread about the 3 stages of expat life rings very true. A lot of the group 2 people who hate all things Thai are not just satisfied with that, but want everyone else to get on their bandwagon, and it makes them very angry when they encounter someone who has any view that is counter to theirs. In their world anyone who doesn't agree with them that everything is wrong here is 'wearing rose colored glasses'. This behavior is not restricted to Thailand. The funny thing is that the vast majority of the 'hate all things Thai 24/7' group were once in the 'Thailand is Perfect' group, and part of their anger is due to their feeling they have been deceived when ironically they were the ones who deceived themselves.

*Simply defined: A made-up version of an opponent's argument that can easily be defeated.

Totally agree

[TonyLeung]

I heard recently that Herbert Hoover was one of the richest men in 1929 and that he lost $0 in the stock market crash. I think that there are two reactions to this by two groups of people: one group smiles and praises him for his foresight and intelligence and the other group frowns and claims that there most have been an elitest conspiracy to rob the lower classes of their money and that he must have had inside information that the stock market would crash.