My Kids Are Thai - But What About Chinese-thais - Are They More "thai" Than Thai-farang Or Thai-indian?

[Heng]

Agreed, personal insults and flaming are against forum rules. To those who can't mind your manners then please don't post.

Will do, SBK, no worries. Will not mention names when referring to economic status. Sometimes I forget that it can be a touchy subject.

[Johpa]

Rarely preserved after the 3rd generation. At that point, it's up to these descendants to seek out the culture on their own.

Descendants may seek out there own ethnic identity, and certainly descendants of Sino-Thai parents may enter into a long term dialectical identity conundrum. But the bottom line is that economically and politically, Thailand is an ethnic Chinese colony. At some point in the future, Thailand will align itself more closely with China than with the United States and the west. This will probably happen when the Yuan is accepted as payment in exchange for oil in the Middle East. The question then become whether the Thai-Farang luuk khreung, like my own kids, will be allowed to stay. I am beginning to accept that I would be asked to leave at that distant point in the future.

[Momo8]

Here in HK children of Chinese and foreign parents are treated as 'special'.Especially if like my son have different colouring (green eyes and black hair)

I strongly believe in multiculturalism having a European/Aussie background myself but it's what the parents do to instill values in a child is what is the most important.

Being multilingual is a plus to me but many people think having a foreign passport and the chance to live overseas is more important.I am proud of the Chinese heritage and if my son was of Thai descent I would be proud of that too.The best of both worlds.

Edited November 15, 2007 by Momo8

[TonyLeung]

Rarely preserved after the 3rd generation. At that point, it's up to these descendants to seek out the culture on their own.

Descendants may seek out there own ethnic identity, and certainly descendants of Sino-Thai parents may enter into a long term dialectical identity conundrum.

Im pretty sure those little bastards walking around Siam Square are already mad about having to learn English let alone that loud language their uncle speaks.

[TonyLeung]

Here in HK children of Chinese and foreign parents are treated as 'special'

Pretty people, everywhere are treated special.

[Momo8]

Tony we can do without the 'little bastards' tag and the 'pretty people' tag.My mother-in law when she walks my son is offended people think she is his maid.I'm offended too.It's not about being 'pretty' it's about being 'different'.

[TonyLeung]

Asians like mixes because they are attractive. That is whats different about them. I really don't know what else you are reaching for.

[sonnyJ]

Rarely preserved after the 3rd generation. At that point, it's up to these descendants to seek out the culture on their own.

Descendants may seek out there own ethnic identity, and certainly descendants of Sino-Thai parents may enter into a long term dialectical identity conundrum. But the bottom line is that economically and politically, Thailand is an ethnic Chinese colony. At some point in the future, Thailand will align itself more closely with China than with the United States and the west. This will probably happen when the Yuan is accepted as payment in exchange for oil in the Middle East. The question then become whether the Thai-Farang luuk khreung, like my own kids, will be allowed to stay. I am beginning to accept that I would be asked to leave at that distant point in the future.

West is west, East is east. What else there is to that..

[Momo8]

So with a name like Leung what nationality are you?Let me guess.......

[Heng]

But the bottom line is that economically and politically, Thailand is an ethnic Chinese colony. At some point in the future, Thailand will align itself more closely with China than with the United States and the west. This will probably happen when the Yuan is accepted as payment in exchange for oil in the Middle East. The question then become whether the Thai-Farang luuk khreung, like my own kids, will be allowed to stay. I am beginning to accept that I would be asked to leave at that distant point in the future.

That sounds rather dramatic, but China has had "luk krungs" for centuries without feeling the need to ask them to leave or anything like cleansing them out. No reason to believe it'll be any different here. Mostly because a generation and a half down the road, they pretty much look like everyone else, usually complete with a local last name and flawless accent as well.

[Jai Dee]

Some flame comments (and replies to the flames) have been deleted from this thread.

Please keep things civil.

[wamberal]

For all the platitudes and cliches about immigrants settling down and eventually being fully integrated, there is a clear, and important, fault line in Thai society between ethnic Chinese and ethnic Thai.

I worked with a number of both some years ago, in a large Thai public corporation. My Chinese friends told me that every Chinese family would try to ensure that one of their daughters would marry a Thai, preferably from an influential family - or at least from a family that had military or police representation.

My Thai friends were pretty open (to me) in taking comfort when one of their own got ahead of one from the other side.

Whilever the Police, Army, and Civil Service are overwhelmingly ethnic Thai, nobody can say that integration is proceeding fully.

Edited November 16, 2007 by wamberal

[Heng]

Whilever the Police, Army, and Civil Service are overwhelmingly ethnic Thai, nobody can say that integration is proceeding fully.

That's a common misconception if you're talking about generals and upper echelon officers. The Thai Chinese been sponsoring 'family friendly' (Thai Chinese and ethnic Thai included) individuals through each system/network for at least 50-80 years.

[thaigene2]

If I may, as the OP, bring this thread back to one my original questions -

And I'll re-phrase a bit here - does anyone else get the feeling that the MEDIA (newspapers, magazines, TV commercials, Soap Operas, etc, etc..) are 'portraying' Chinese-Thais as the 'model' Thais that everyone should be yearning to be like - or indeed actually become?

And yes, yes, TV portrays luuk kreung actors as 'models' but that's just cause their 'pretty' and have 'white' skin (IMHO...not because they want Thais to marry Farangs - to be sure they are not encouraging that).

Hope to see some thoughtful responses on the above question as relates Thai-Chinese in media portrayal. Thanks - TG2

[TonyLeung]

If I may, as the OP, bring this thread back to one my original questions -

And I'll re-phrase a bit here - does anyone else get the feeling that the MEDIA (newspapers, magazines, TV commercials, Soap Operas, etc, etc..) are 'portraying' Chinese-Thais as the 'model' Thais that everyone should be yearning to be like - or indeed actually become?

And yes, yes, TV portrays luuk kreung actors as 'models' but that's just cause their 'pretty' and have 'white' skin (IMHO...not because they want Thais to marry Farangs - to be sure they are not encouraging that).

Hope to see some thoughtful responses on the above question as relates Thai-Chinese in media portrayal. Thanks - TG2

Can you give us some examples of how commericals portray Thai-Chinese as being model Thais?

How do you know the guy sipping Nestles coffee with the smoking hot girl friend is Thai-Chinese? Is it because he has white skin?

[madjbs]

I think too many people think there is a clear cut division between Chinese Thais and other Thais. I dont really see any 'model' Thais on T.V Just lots of standard Thai people that don't look too much like Lao or Khymer Thais.

[TonyLeung]

I think he wants more of this

And less of this

[Johpa]

But the bottom line is that economically and politically, Thailand is an ethnic Chinese colony. At some point in the future, Thailand will align itself more closely with China than with the United States and the west. This will probably happen when the Yuan is accepted as payment in exchange for oil in the Middle East. The question then become whether the Thai-Farang luuk khreung, like my own kids, will be allowed to stay. I am beginning to accept that I would be asked to leave at that distant point in the future.

That sounds rather dramatic, but China has had "luk krungs" for centuries without feeling the need to ask them to leave or anything like cleansing them out. No reason to believe it'll be any different here. Mostly because a generation and a half down the road, they pretty much look like everyone else, usually complete with a local last name and flawless accent as well.

Historically Luuk Kreung have not always fared well in Asia during times of animosity between east and west. Currently there is a fairly positive relationship between China and the US. But when times get tougher and the competition for natural resources gets stiffer then things have the potential to change dramatically for the worse and racism inevitably appears.

I think the doggy doo doo begins to hit the fan when the dollar is no longer the monopoly currency for oil. The first shoe will drop when the Saudis accept Euros and we have the petroeuro rivaling the petrodollar. The second and really big shoe drops when they begin to accept the Yuan.

[tijnebijn]

But the bottom line is that economically and politically, Thailand is an ethnic Chinese colony. At some point in the future, Thailand will align itself more closely with China than with the United States and the west. This will probably happen when the Yuan is accepted as payment in exchange for oil in the Middle East. The question then become whether the Thai-Farang luuk khreung, like my own kids, will be allowed to stay. I am beginning to accept that I would be asked to leave at that distant point in the future.

That sounds rather dramatic, but China has had "luk krungs" for centuries without feeling the need to ask them to leave or anything like cleansing them out. No reason to believe it'll be any different here. Mostly because a generation and a half down the road, they pretty much look like everyone else, usually complete with a local last name and flawless accent as well.

Historically Luuk Kreung have not always fared well in Asia during times of animosity between east and west. Currently there is a fairly positive relationship between China and the US. But when times get tougher and the competition for natural resources gets stiffer then things have the potential to change dramatically for the worse and racism inevitably appears.

I think the doggy doo doo begins to hit the fan when the dollar is no longer the monopoly currency for oil. The first shoe will drop when the Saudis accept Euros and we have the petroeuro rivaling the petrodollar. The second and really big shoe drops when they begin to accept the Yuan.

Total bullocks , you guys are rationalising too much on something that is not there !

Why worry about something that maybe when this , or this and we become this and they think this ,

which we are not really sure about too , so I have too pick that and prepare for that !

Pwoh , got the point ? I do not say yoy cannot write what you think , but it is just a bit too much !

[dog412]

while their may be a myriad of ways to separate peoples, in thailand a discerning quality would be "Ancestor" worship, which is a distinctive mode,and would be indicative of Chinese ancestry that wants a continuation of that belief. Tai and Thai are not the same. looking at the migratory history of Thailand does wonders to understand these "problems".

[sonicdragon]

I know a lot of young second and third generation Chinese people and none of them can speak more than a few sentences of Mandarin or the dialect of the area where the family comes from. Previously it was different because Chinese kids would go to Chinese schools and learn everything in Chinese, then it was ruled that they must learn in Thai (but the schools were still bilingual) and now I think nearly every school is purely Thai based.

I think this is quite true. My wife speaks fairly decent cantonese and some mandarin as well as her family's native teochew dialect even though she was born and raised in thailand, but this is only because her family has business in Hong Kong. In their far extended family (in Thailand) most of her cousins of the same generation speak some teochew and hardly any mandarin at all. I know a few families here that speak hokkien and for some reason they seem more interested in passing that down to their children than teochew speakers. Many original immigrants from china spoke mandarin only as a second language, if at all.

EDIT/* I forgot to add the main point, which is that *all* her family (that I have met) consider themselves to be very much Thai as far as I can see and I never hear them calling themselves Thai-Chinese or Chinese. The younger generation of my wife, and her parents generation all practice thai buddhism. The only obvious thing you would notice about their chinese heritage is some chinese-style decorations in their houses and their celebtration of most chinese festivals. Chinese immigrants to Thailand are much more intergrated into Thai society than is the case in most of south east asian countries such as Indonesia and the Philippines. Thus, in times of regional unrest thai chinese people (and business owners in particular) have fared much better than their counterparts in those other countries.

Edited November 16, 2007 by sonicdragon

[TonyLeung]

But the bottom line is that economically and politically, Thailand is an ethnic Chinese colony. At some point in the future, Thailand will align itself more closely with China than with the United States and the west. This will probably happen when the Yuan is accepted as payment in exchange for oil in the Middle East. The question then become whether the Thai-Farang luuk khreung, like my own kids, will be allowed to stay. I am beginning to accept that I would be asked to leave at that distant point in the future.

That sounds rather dramatic, but China has had "luk krungs" for centuries without feeling the need to ask them to leave or anything like cleansing them out. No reason to believe it'll be any different here. Mostly because a generation and a half down the road, they pretty much look like everyone else, usually complete with a local last name and flawless accent as well.

Historically Luuk Kreung have not always fared well in Asia during times of animosity between east and west. Currently there is a fairly positive relationship between China and the US. But when times get tougher and the competition for natural resources gets stiffer then things have the potential to change dramatically for the worse and racism inevitably appears.

I think the doggy doo doo begins to hit the fan when the dollar is no longer the monopoly currency for oil. The first shoe will drop when the Saudis accept Euros and we have the petroeuro rivaling the petrodollar. The second and really big shoe drops when they begin to accept the Yuan.

If Saudia Arabia starts to accept the Yuan I would put it at 50/50 that every female leuk krueng in Thailand is rounded up and auctioned off to the highest bidder to work as a maid and sex slave. The male luek krueng will definitely be murdered. The president of the USA will have no choice but to kneel at the feet of the Czar of China kissing his feet and begging him to take 2,000,000 virgin American girls as his personal consorts inexchange for economy aide for the American public whose GPD has fallen below Ethiopia. In 5 years, The US government will then have to concede California to Mexico, now a world super power.

[Heng]

If I may, as the OP, bring this thread back to one my original questions -

And I'll re-phrase a bit here - does anyone else get the feeling that the MEDIA (newspapers, magazines, TV commercials, Soap Operas, etc, etc..) are 'portraying' Chinese-Thais as the 'model' Thais that everyone should be yearning to be like - or indeed actually become?

IMO, it does not. Although I'm sure folks could argue back and forth as to what is a "portrayal," since just about every role they play (from the good to the bad) reflect many aspects of real life as well.

[Johpa]

Total bullocks , you guys are rationalising too much on something that is not there !

Why worry about something that maybe when this , or this and we become this and they think this ,

which we are not really sure about too , so I have too pick that and prepare for that !

Pwoh , got the point ? I do not say yoy cannot write what you think , but it is just a bit too much !

Forget to take our Xanax today?

[tijnebijn]

Total bullocks , you guys are rationalising too much on something that is not there !

Why worry about something that maybe when this , or this and we become this and they think this ,

which we are not really sure about too , so I have too pick that and prepare for that !

Pwoh , got the point ? I do not say yoy cannot write what you think , but it is just a bit too much !

Forget to take our Xanax today?

I hope you understand that you speak to yourself .

[cdnvic]

Total bullocks , you guys are rationalising too much on something that is not there !

Why worry about something that maybe when this , or this and we become this and they think this ,

which we are not really sure about too , so I have too pick that and prepare for that !

Pwoh , got the point ? I do not say yoy cannot write what you think , but it is just a bit too much !

Forget to take our Xanax today?

I hope you understand that you speak to yourself .

Well, we need to as we have no idea what you're trying to say.

[tijnebijn]

Total bullocks , you guys are rationalising too much on something that is not there !

Why worry about something that maybe when this , or this and we become this and they think this ,

which we are not really sure about too , so I have too pick that and prepare for that !

Pwoh , got the point ? I do not say yoy cannot write what you think , but it is just a bit too much !

Forget to take our Xanax today?

I hope you understand that you speak to yourself .

Well, we need to as we have no idea what you're trying to say.

That was my intention , to show how ridiculous some comments were in this thread .

Just as wicked how I read it .

[sonnyJ]

If I may, as the OP, bring this thread back to one my original questions -

And I'll re-phrase a bit here - does anyone else get the feeling that the MEDIA (newspapers, magazines, TV commercials, Soap Operas, etc, etc..) are 'portraying' Chinese-Thais as the 'model' Thais that everyone should be yearning to be like - or indeed actually become?

Yes they already are. This has bothered me for ages as well. But have no idea what the guy in Buriram in his shack by the rice field thinks, probably that Bangkok is some kind of disneyland.

And yes, yes, TV portrays luuk kreung actors as 'models' but that's just cause their 'pretty' and have 'white' skin (IMHO...not because they want Thais to marry Farangs - to be sure they are not encouraging that).

Again, Thai logic is my guess.

Hope to see some thoughtful responses on the above question as relates Thai-Chinese in media portrayal. Thanks - TG2

Sorry about the fycked up coloring

[sonnyJ]

I think too many people think there is a clear cut division between Chinese Thais and other Thais. I dont really see any 'model' Thais on T.V Just lots of standard Thai people that don't look too much like Lao or Khymer Thais.

Can you really be a model in Thailand if not thai-chinese or thai-farang?

[sonnyJ]

Total bullocks , you guys are rationalising too much on something that is not there !

Why worry about something that maybe when this , or this and we become this and they think this ,

which we are not really sure about too , so I have too pick that and prepare for that !

Pwoh , got the point ? I do not say yoy cannot write what you think , but it is just a bit too much !

Forget to take our Xanax today?

I hope you understand that you speak to yourself .

Well, we need to as we have no idea what you're trying to say.

That was my intention , to show how ridiculous some comments were in this thread .

Just as wicked how I read it .

Who am I to say but I get you completely. Some call it TVS, thai visa syndrome.

Edited November 17, 2007 by sonnyJ