The Times Higher World University Rankings 2007

[hyperdimension]

The Times Higher World University Rankings 2007 were released on 9 November 2007.

It is available from the official web site: http://www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/

Or, if you don't wan tto sign of for the trial, I found a copy here.

I wonder where Chulalongkorn University ended up this time round.

[Manchester]

The Times Higher World University Rankings 2007 were released on 9 November 2007.

It is available from the official web site: http://www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/

Or, if you don't wan tto sign of for the trial, I found a copy here.

I wonder where Chulalongkorn University ended up this time round.

A big surprise to see NO Thai uni,s in the list.

[hyperdimension]

Check the "Academic Ranking of World Universities" (produced by the Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University) for comparison.

They have rankings for years 2003 to 2007.

[mbkudu]

How me about the rankings of top rankings of those rankings. Foolish. Tell me who the top students are.

Edited November 17, 2007 by mbkudu

[Loaded]

Mi Top Ranking in no particular order stylee

See me in me heels and ting

Dem check sey we hip and ting

True them no know and ting

We have them going and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

See me pon the road I hear you call out to me

True you see mi inna pants and ting

See mi in a 'alter back

Sey mi gi' you heart attack

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Uptown Top Ranking

See mi in mi Benz and ting

Drivin' through Constant Spring

Them check sey me come from cosmo spring

But a true dem no know and ting

Dem no know sey we top ranking

Uptown Top Ranking

Shoulda see me and the ranking dread

Check how we jamming and ting

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Watch how we chuck it and ting

Inna we khaki suit and ting

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Love inna you heart dis a bawl out fe me

When you see me inna pants and ting

See me inna 'alter back

Sey me gi' you heart attack

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Uptown Top Ranking

See mi pon the road and hear you call out to me

True you see me in me pants and ting

See me inna 'alter back

Sey me gi' you heart attack

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

You shoulda see me and the ranking dread,

Check how we jamming and ting

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

[Xangsamhua]

I think they look at things like the amount of funded research, published work, frequency of citation in publications, number of international staff and students, student and staff satisfaction, etc.

The criteria favour larger metropolitan universities. There doesn't seem to be much scope for smaller, regional, specialist or "teaching" universities. A student could get a very good higher education in one of the latter kind, especially at the undergraduate level or in specific areas. The THES rankings seem to compare big universities (though I'm sure there are exceptions, e.g. University of Canterbury in New Zealand, with only about 11,000 students). The Jiao Tong rankings seem to be strongly biased towards US universities.

[PeaceBlondie]

Great point, Xangsamhua (a nik that doesn't flow quickly off the tongue or the keyboards).

What universities both in Thailand and in the West are the best undergraduate schools for becoming a good teacher?

[JR Texas]

The Times Higher World University Rankings 2007 were released on 9 November 2007.

It is available from the official web site: http://www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/

Or, if you don't wan tto sign of for the trial, I found a copy here.

I wonder where Chulalongkorn University ended up this time round.

A big surprise to see NO Thai uni,s in the list.

Why does this surprise you? The universities in Thailand are nothing but crap.......LOS is LOI (can you figure out what the "I" stands for?).

Thailand's system of higher education primarily functions as a money-making machine for various deans/administrators who spend most of their time (and university funds) on "important matters" overseas.......usually at 5-star hotels.

They should all be shut down starting with the ones in Isan. The existing deans/administrators should be FIRED!

Total corruption...........

[jbowman1993]

The Times Higher World University Rankings 2007 were released on 9 November 2007.

It is available from the official web site: http://www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/

Or, if you don't wan tto sign of for the trial, I found a copy here.

I wonder where Chulalongkorn University ended up this time round.

A big surprise to see NO Thai uni,s in the list.

Why does this surprise you? The universities in Thailand are nothing but crap.......LOS is LOI (can you figure out what the "I" stands for?).

Thailand's system of higher education primarily functions as a money-making machine for various deans/administrators who spend most of their time (and university funds) on "important matters" overseas.......usually at 5-star hotels.

They should all be shut down starting with the ones in Isan. The existing deans/administrators should be FIRED!

Total corruption...........

There are exceptions.... I work for one of them. But then, I wouldn't trust someone from Texas to recognize quality education. Education in Texas is only a byproduct of the most important function of school - American Football......

[mbkudu]

It's not all bad. Where I study, the Thai director is at the university 7 days a week. His desk is constantly stacked with papers and he teaches courses as well. There are competent people who work hard and try to make a difference here.

[stevemiddie]

The Times Higher World University Rankings 2007 were released on 9 November 2007.

It is available from the official web site: http://www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/

Or, if you don't wan tto sign of for the trial, I found a copy here.

I wonder where Chulalongkorn University ended up this time round.

A big surprise to see NO Thai uni,s in the list.

Why does this surprise you? The universities in Thailand are nothing but crap.......LOS is LOI (can you figure out what the "I" stands for?).

It doesn,t surprise me.

My post was sarcasm............hence the wink?

English humour............not something that is understood in the Lone Star state.

[madjbs]

Ignore Mr. Texas. A university once got the better of him and now he likes to bash every institution in the country with no respect to the people and faculties that are trying very hard to provide QUALITY education and change the image of Thai universities. What’s worrying is that people like this can be in charge of educating people, whatever the country.

Edited November 18, 2007 by madjbs

[JR Texas]

Ignore Mr. Texas. A university once got the better of him and now he likes to bash every institution in the country with no respect to the people and faculties that are trying very hard to provide QUALITY education and change the image of Thai universities. What’s worrying is that people like this can be in charge of educating people, whatever the country.

Actually, in my long academic career I have only been cheated twice.......both times in Thailand. I have no respect for the system of education in Thailand because of what I have seen and experienced.....if it looks like it, smells like it, etc. I call it like I see it.............

Are there some people/faculties trying hard to provide a quality education to students in Thailand? Of course, I am sure of it........I have just never met one. And I have been in and around the "system" since 1986.

I do not know one respected academic outside of Thailand that has anything good to say about Thailand's system of higher education.........not one. Similarly, I do not know one UN official that has anything good to say about Thailand's system of education.

Think what you want to.....but please think.

[PeaceBlondie]

I attended 4 or 5 Texas universities and junior colleges which didn't have a football team! JRTexas was a vocal critic of the Thai uni system long before they overcharged him for his apartment. All generalities are invalid, including this one. Thailand and Texas both have some fairly good university directors, and some very bad directors. They usually stay at 5 star hotels (a uni system chancellor in the USA earns well over $200,000 annually).

Didn't Taksin Shittywater get his Ph.D. in criminology at Sam Houston State University in Texas? In fact, the criminology dept. is one of their best.

And yes, Texans understand witticisms, understatement, etc., when the Brits are clever enough to make it clear without emoticons.

[JR Texas]

I attended 4 or 5 Texas universities and junior colleges which didn't have a football team! JRTexas was a vocal critic of the Thai uni system long before they overcharged him for his apartment. All generalities are invalid, including this one. Thailand and Texas both have some fairly good university directors, and some very bad directors. They usually stay at 5 star hotels (a uni system chancellor in the USA earns well over $200,000 annually).

Didn't Taksin Shittywater get his Ph.D. in criminology at Sam Houston State University in Texas? In fact, the criminology dept. is one of their best.

And yes, Texans understand witticisms, understatement, etc., when the Brits are clever enough to make it clear without emoticons.

"All generalizations are invalid." I agree. In discussing this I have been using more emotion than reason (yes, I am pissed off!!!!!!!!!!). BUT, as stated by PeaceBlondie, I have been critical of the "system" for a long time.

I am tired of the corruption. I am tired of the scams and abuses of the system by various deans/administrators (nothing to do with their salaries and everything to do with stealing grant monies and other monies). I am tired of seeing Thailand go downhill.

Having said that, most of the good and decent people in the system are afraid to speak out, for obvious reasons. I am talking for them.....saying what others are afraid to say. They know the system is corrupt to the core and virtually worthless.

By the way, The Nation of Texas does have some excellent universities, among them being Rice, UT, Texas A&M.

[Xangsamhua]

Great point, Xangsamhua (a nik that doesn't flow quickly off the tongue or the keyboards).

What universities both in Thailand and in the West are the best undergraduate schools for becoming a good teacher?

I'm sorry, PB. I really don't know. Srinakharinwiroj has a good reputation, I think. Still commonly known as Prasarnmitr, it was a significant teachers' college before becoming a university.

As for the West.....? Does any university have a reputation for producing good teachers? I'm sure there are lots of good BEd and BSpecEd type courses, especially at former teachers' colleges, but what about teachers who do a BA or BSc or BCom and then a diploma in education. I'd be impressed if the initial degree was from a major university (i.e. one that's hard to get in to), but I might be quite unfair and the teacher might be a good scholar but not much of a teacher.

[PeaceBlondie]

Xang, I'm not making any argument about this; like you, I don't know which schools here or back home produce the best classroom teachers. Back home, it's considered generally that education majors are not the brightest students in undergraduate work. Anyway, here in Thailand, I wonder if the usual Chula/Thammasat/Mahidol/wherever debate applies at all to Thai teachers. Were the rajabats originally teacher's universities/colleges? That's how it started in the West, in some cases, and the three year "normal schools" developed into four year education unis, and then to all-purpose unis with postgraduate programs, science, math, engineering, etc. I think my mother graduated from the National College of Education, but that's not a well known school.

[jbowman1993]

I'm not going to debate the merits of the Thai education system with JR Ewing. I don't imagine his limited negative experiences would offer much insight into them. I don't think any of us would deny that many school need attention, from infrastructure improvements to teacher training and development courses. I hope that in the future we have an administration that will take up this challange and make positive, substantial steps forward in this area.

There are, however, many quality institutions in this country. To dismiss them, or avoid discussing them is doing a disservice to the many people committed to change and growth iwithn the system in Thailand. I work for one of these places. My school is the most dynamic, innovative school of music in SE Asia. We have teachers and students here that are doing remarkable things. If you want to take a tour, contact me. I'd be delighted to show you what we are doing. Don't believe me? Let me supply you with as many international references as you could possibly want.

My mother used to say that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I'd like to think that at my small piece of the puzzle, we are doing things to make our field of education in Thailand a little better. There are many people like me in this country. Dont' forget that, next time you feel like condemning an entire cross section, which includes people like me. You might try following another one of my Mom's suggestions - "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

[Manchester]

I'm not going to debate the merits of the Thai education system with JR Ewing. I don't imagine his limited negative experiences would offer much insight into them. I don't think any of us would deny that many school need attention, from infrastructure improvements to teacher training and development courses. I hope that in the future we have an administration that will take up this challange and make positive, substantial steps forward in this area.

There are, however, many quality institutions in this country. To dismiss them, or avoid discussing them is doing a disservice to the many people committed to change and growth iwithn the system in Thailand. I work for one of these places. My school is the most dynamic, innovative school of music in SE Asia. We have teachers and students here that are doing remarkable things. If you want to take a tour, contact me. I'd be delighted to show you what we are doing. Don't believe me? Let me supply you with as many international references as you could possibly want.

My mother used to say that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I'd like to think that at my small piece of the puzzle, we are doing things to make our field of education in Thailand a little better. There are many people like me in this country. Dont' forget that, next time you feel like condemning an entire cross section, which includes people like me. You might try following another one of my Mom's suggestions - "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Agreed.

For all of his alleged experience and qualifications..............JR Ewing comes across as a bit of a dic*head.

[madjbs]

Very well said jbowman!

[Robski]

Thanks for the article, I'll save that for further reading and reference. Nice to see the University of London getting several mentions in the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_London

[JR Texas]

I'm not going to debate the merits of the Thai education system with JR Ewing. I don't imagine his limited negative experiences would offer much insight into them. I don't think any of us would deny that many school need attention, from infrastructure improvements to teacher training and development courses. I hope that in the future we have an administration that will take up this challange and make positive, substantial steps forward in this area.

There are, however, many quality institutions in this country. To dismiss them, or avoid discussing them is doing a disservice to the many people committed to change and growth iwithn the system in Thailand. I work for one of these places. My school is the most dynamic, innovative school of music in SE Asia. We have teachers and students here that are doing remarkable things. If you want to take a tour, contact me. I'd be delighted to show you what we are doing. Don't believe me? Let me supply you with as many international references as you could possibly want.

My mother used to say that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I'd like to think that at my small piece of the puzzle, we are doing things to make our field of education in Thailand a little better. There are many people like me in this country. Dont' forget that, next time you feel like condemning an entire cross section, which includes people like me. You might try following another one of my Mom's suggestions - "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Agreed.

For all of his alleged experience and qualifications..............JR Ewing comes across as a bit of a dic*head.

Interesting how the people that do not like my point of view resort to personal insults. For the record, my limited experience involves 30 years of higher education/development/consulting worldwide. It does not, however, involve music or business or physical education.........my work centers on science. About "dismissing them." I think the people that rank universities/colleges dismissed Thailand too....the point of this thread. About being part of the solution: I am very much a part of the solution. I am not going to close my eyes and play a tune on my fiddle while the ship sinks. "All generalizations are invalid." Why? Because there are always exceptions......even one exception makes the generalization invalid. Maybe you are the one exception. Congratulations!

[Xangsamhua]

Xang, I'm not making any argument about this; like you, I don't know which schools here or back home produce the best classroom teachers. Back home, it's considered generally that education majors are not the brightest students in undergraduate work. Anyway, here in Thailand, I wonder if the usual Chula/Thammasat/Mahidol/wherever debate applies at all to Thai teachers. Were the rajabats originally teacher's universities/colleges? That's how it started in the West, in some cases, and the three year "normal schools" developed into four year education unis, and then to all-purpose unis with postgraduate programs, science, math, engineering, etc. I think my mother graduated from the National College of Education, but that's not a well known school.

Yes, it's been difficult to attract top-performing students into undergraduate teacher education programs in English speaking countries. Times have changed in some respects, at least where I come from. When I began my undergraduate studies at Melbourne Uni, secondary teacher trainees did an undergraduate degree and then one year of postgrad Education study and practice. The one year was inadequate, but the initial degree was of good quality. We were assessed differently in the Education year from our primary teacher trainee friends, who were doing a two or three year course, but much more practically oriented. I'm sure they were better trained for teaching. Whether they were better teachers after the first couple of years of real experience I don't know. I think quite a few secondary teachers dropped out of teaching after a while and fell back on what their initial degree could get them in the workplace (public/civil service jobs for the BAs). The fact that they went into teacher training at least partly attracted by the generous government scholarships available at the time may have influenced this. After you'd finsihed your bond you were "free".

The nexus between academic ability, pleasure in working with kids, desire to make a difference, ability to make complex things understandable and to connect with students - all those factors - are not clearcut, as we know. If a university is offering BEd students a good balance between an academic program and a pedagogical (teacher preparation) one and if students really think they want to teach then I would be confident of the outcome, even if the students are not academic highfliers.

Before coming to Thailand I sat on panels for a number of years assessing teachers' eligibility for advanced teacher status. Many teachers attained this status on the basis of evidence of exemplary work. I formed a very clear judgement that, in my region (and I think it would be typical of others), teachers were doing an excellent job. Despite the difficulties regulatory societies make for teachers and despite the lack of affirmation from the media, many teachers are really going the extra mile to give their students a good education both in and beyond the classroom. And those teachers graduated from many different institutions, some through a BEd course, some through degree+Dip Ed, some with no other occupational experience and some who had been in other occupations before going into teaching.

I do believe, however, that any teacher benefits from a good preparation program. Although some people are natural teachers and some are quite gifted, even the most gifted would benefit from a good formal preparation.

Re Thailand, I don't know what the different pathways are for people who want to become teachers. That would influence a generalisation about what university or rajapat is a good one for teacher education studies. I'll be out of the country for the next eight days, but will find out more on my return.

Your questions are good ones, PB. I'm sorry I didn't really address them. Got sidetracked by your initial statement.

[Rumpole]

Check the "Academic Ranking of World Universities" (produced by the Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University) for comparison.

They have rankings for years 2003 to 2007.

And there are no Thai universities on that one, either.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Rumpole

[qualtrough]

I didn't have time to read the intro to the study, but if someone did I would like to know how they address the fact that the various departments and schools within a university can vary greatly in quality/reputation. What that means, for example, is that a university lower down in the ranking might have a political science department with a better reputation than one of the schools higher up, and so on.

[Xangsamhua]

Check the "Academic Ranking of World Universities" (produced by the Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University) for comparison.

They have rankings for years 2003 to 2007.

And there are no Thai universities on that one, either.

Shanghai Jiao Tong rate themselves in the range 203-304 out of the top 500, so it's not just a promotional exercise. The university is highly regarded in China.

Their criteria include prizes and medals won by alumni and staff, "articles published in Nature and Science" by staff and articles cited, plus a value given to all that by dividing the scores by the number of staff members at each institution.

[Xangsamhua]

Xang, I'm not making any argument about this; like you, I don't know which schools here or back home produce the best classroom teachers. Back home, it's considered generally that education majors are not the brightest students in undergraduate work. Anyway, here in Thailand, I wonder if the usual Chula/Thammasat/Mahidol/wherever debate applies at all to Thai teachers. Were the rajabats originally teacher's universities/colleges? That's how it started in the West, in some cases, and the three year "normal schools" developed into four year education unis, and then to all-purpose unis with postgraduate programs, science, math, engineering, etc. I think my mother graduated from the National College of Education, but that's not a well known school.

Yes, it's been difficult to attract top-performing students into undergraduate teacher education programs in English speaking countries. Times have changed in some respects, at least where I come from. When I began my undergraduate studies at Melbourne Uni, secondary teacher trainees did an undergraduate degree and then one year of postgrad Education study and practice. The one year was inadequate, but the initial degree was of good quality. We were assessed differently in the Education year from our primary teacher trainee friends, who were doing a two or three year course, but much more practically oriented. I'm sure they were better trained for teaching. Whether they were better teachers after the first couple of years of real experience I don't know. I think quite a few secondary teachers dropped out of teaching after a while and fell back on what their initial degree could get them in the workplace (public/civil service jobs for the BAs). The fact that they went into teacher training at least partly attracted by the generous government scholarships available at the time may have influenced this. After you'd finsihed your bond you were "free".

The nexus between academic ability, pleasure in working with kids, desire to make a difference, ability to make complex things understandable and to connect with students - all those factors - are not clearcut, as we know. If a university is offering BEd students a good balance between an academic program and a pedagogical (teacher preparation) one and if students really think they want to teach then I would be confident of the outcome, even if the students are not academic highfliers.

Before coming to Thailand I sat on panels for a number of years assessing teachers' eligibility for advanced teacher status. Many teachers attained this status on the basis of evidence of exemplary work. I formed a very clear judgement that, in my region (and I think it would be typical of others), teachers were doing an excellent job. Despite the difficulties regulatory societies make for teachers and despite the lack of affirmation from the media, many teachers are really going the extra mile to give their students a good education both in and beyond the classroom. And those teachers graduated from many different institutions, some through a BEd course, some through degree+Dip Ed, some with no other occupational experience and some who had been in other occupations before going into teaching.

I do believe, however, that any teacher benefits from a good preparation program. Although some people are natural teachers and some are quite gifted, even the most gifted would benefit from a good formal preparation.

Re Thailand, I don't know what the different pathways are for people who want to become teachers. That would influence a generalisation about what university or rajapat is a good one for teacher education studies. I'll be out of the country for the next eight days, but will find out more on my return.

Your questions are good ones, PB. I'm sorry I didn't really address them. Got sidetracked by your initial statement.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, PB. My sources (pretty credible to me, anyway) tell me that they would look favourably on an Education degree from Chula, Sri Nakharin, Kasetsart, Chiang Mai, Khonkaen, Naresuan (Phitsanuloke) and Songkhla Nakharin. Not so favourably on a qualification from a Rajaphat, though some are good in some areas, e.g. Suan Sunanta (Bangkok) in Early Childhood Education.

Hope this helps. It's obviously subjective though.

Incidentally, I believe not all the best known universities have Education faculties, e.g. Thammasat.

[YangYaiEric]

Mi Top Ranking in no particular order stylee

See me in me heels and ting

Dem check sey we hip and ting

True them no know and ting

We have them going and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

See me pon the road I hear you call out to me

True you see mi inna pants and ting

See mi in a 'alter back

Sey mi gi' you heart attack

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Uptown Top Ranking

See mi in mi Benz and ting

Drivin' through Constant Spring

Them check sey me come from cosmo spring

But a true dem no know and ting

Dem no know sey we top ranking

Uptown Top Ranking

Shoulda see me and the ranking dread

Check how we jamming and ting

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Watch how we chuck it and ting

Inna we khaki suit and ting

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Love inna you heart dis a bawl out fe me

When you see me inna pants and ting

See me inna 'alter back

Sey me gi' you heart attack

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Uptown Top Ranking

See mi pon the road and hear you call out to me

True you see me in me pants and ting

See me inna 'alter back

Sey me gi' you heart attack

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

You shoulda see me and the ranking dread,

Check how we jamming and ting

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Ta Raas na klat! wot de fok ya taakin abo't !

[stevemiddie]

Mi Top Ranking in no particular order stylee

Watch how we chuck it and ting

Inna we khaki suit and ting

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Love inna you heart dis a bawl out fe me

When you see me inna pants and ting

See me inna 'alter back

Sey me gi' you heart attack

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Uptown Top Ranking

See mi pon the road and hear you call out to me

True you see me in me pants and ting

See me inna 'alter back

Sey me gi' you heart attack

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Gimme likkle bass, make me wine up me waist

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

You shoulda see me and the ranking dread,

Check how we jamming and ting

Love is all I bring inna me khaki suit and ting

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Nah pop no style, a strictly roots

Ta Raas na klat! wot de fok ya taakin abo't !

Been drinking too much of that Thai whiskey stuff I think.

[junkofdavid2]

The Times Higher World University Rankings 2007 were released on 9 November 2007.

It is available from the official web site: http://www.thes.co.uk/worldrankings/

Or, if you don't wan tto sign of for the trial, I found a copy here.

I wonder where Chulalongkorn University ended up this time round.

A big surprise to see NO Thai uni,s in the list.

Chula was 121 in 2005, 161 in 2006, and now it has completely dropped out of the top 200.