meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 The one Thai word that Westerners seem to use all the time, and crops up all over this forum, is “Farang”. But isn’t it almost meaningless and vaguely insulting to the countries and cultures we come from? I have heard the F word used to mean English speakers. In BKK you often see taxis with a sticker in the window saying “I Love Farang”, which means the driver speaks English. I suppose it mostly means Caucasian but can also mean people from the Western world who earn Western salaries. When I have pointed out to Thai people that the majority of European countries are not English speaking, that many States of the US have more Spanish than English speakers and that there are millions of Asians, Africans, Hispanic people, Afro-Caribbeans, etc living in the Western world, they look blankly at me. Isn’t it a bit like a Westerner referring to a Thai (or any oriental person) as a “Chinky” and expecting them to speak Chinese. The word seems to be based on an ignorance of the world outside Thailand. Not that this is their fault. Thai people have told me that in schools they get little or no education about the Western world, that a month’s trip round Europe is just not financially viable for most people and that Thai TV is not exactly littered with educational documentaries on the world outside. But why do we have to adopt the word? In Singapore which is, dare I say it, a little more enlightened than Thailand, they use the word “Caucasian” to mean Caucasian and “English Speaker” to mean English Speaker. And of course they would mostly include themselves in the latter but not the former. And as much as I dislike the word, I often find myself using it, turning to my Thai girlfriend and saying “farang yuk mak mak” or “Farang kon dio”. So why do we use it? Are we being ironic? Are we mocking Thai people and their ignorance of the outside world? Are we showing that we have mastered at least one word of the local lingo? Are we enjoying being disrespectful to ourselves and our cultures? Or is it just a case of “When in Rome...”? What other word am I supposed to use when I order my guava from the street vendors ? Why does the OP not try to answer this question? You will get the answer then if you can answer this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 So one has to adjust to Thai people's low IQ and lack of education and use this and other words, just to be understood, even if you think of this word as being an insult (or not). May I know what the percentage of the farang(sorry any other word?) population is that has the same level of IQ of this poster? I would like to adjust mine as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surface Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) While the caricatures of Thai locals appear to look human, the caricatures of 'farang' are small little alien creatures with oval heads and big almond shaped eyes, and look identical to something one would associate disembarking down the ramp of a flying saucer at first contact.A subtle message perhaps? Never saw one myself. Do you know of any places where I'd be able to see one of these? Edited November 23, 2007 by surface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Done to death this issue, done to death. Thais can call me anything they want as long as they don't call me late to dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Here is a heart warming sentiment: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazeeboy Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 its a lot easier saying look at that farang ,than look at the italian ,frenchman german swede brit .dont know about you but it is easier for me as i cant always tell where some people come from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardandtubs Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 The thread has drifted. The question is why Western people use the term farang. I think there are a lot of self-hating white liberal types in Thailand who have no respect for their own ethnic background so are happy to refer to themselves using an ethnic slur. Others just go along with it because they are ignorant of the negative connotations of the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 The thread has drifted. The question is why Western people use the term farang. I think there are a lot of self-hating white liberal types in Thailand who have no respect for their own ethnic background so are happy to refer to themselves using an ethnic slur. Others just go along with it because they are ignorant of the negative connotations of the term. Pretty clear from your post that you haven't a clue about farang. It is only negative if used with a negative tone of voice. Otherwise it is just a simple way of referring to what used to be known in pre-PC days as a white person. I have no problem with the term, use it all the time, and am not self-hating at all. If you think it is a slur that says more about you than it does about the word. I don't know why some farangs get so upset about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardandtubs Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 It is only negative if used with a negative tone of voice. That's just silly. If the word, used on it's own, can have negative connotations then it's an ethnic slur no different from any other. The fact that nigga and paki can be used without negative connotations if said with the right tone doesn't stop them being ethnic slurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 It is only negative if used with a negative tone of voice. That's just silly. If the word, used on it's own, can have negative connotations then it's an ethnic slur no different from any other. The fact that nigga and paki can be used without negative connotations if said with the right tone doesn't stop them being ethnic slurs. Unbelievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 He is so far wrong its not even worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffcoat Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I do not regard the word farang as being anymore than descriptive. If my history is correct on first meeting with French traders the French introduced themselves as Francaise...which the Thai's converted to Farang-see and I believe this is still what they call the French. On contact with further European nationalities the Thai's simply adopted part of their word for French to apply to all Europeans (Caucasians )therefore Farang is no more than a handy label on a par with Caucasian. I will use the word farang if I wish to refer to Caucasians in a Thai context as saying Caucasian sounds like a textbook quote to me.But if I only wish to refer to a sub-group such as Europeans then I will not use farang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) Descriptive perhaps, but backwards. And yes, racist. It used to be in the US most people referred to all people with any Asian background as Orientals. It could be a Chinese-American whose family has been there since 1850 or an Indonesian just arrived, all Orientals. Now when someone uses that term, it marks them as ignorant and a likely racist. I just accept it. I also use the term here because it is the only way to communicate with the natives. I don't see my role as the great white educator. Like I said before, in Thailand you take the good with the bad, and it was exactly like the USA, I wouldn't have gone to all this trouble to move here! Edited November 23, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffcoat Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I stand corrected...very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 If we are getting into the origin of the word, I doubt we have the entire answer. Note this: In Ethiopia the word faranji is the Amharic word for foreigner. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 It is only negative if used with a negative tone of voice. That's just silly. If the word, used on it's own, can have negative connotations then it's an ethnic slur no different from any other. The fact that nigga and paki can be used without negative connotations if said with the right tone doesn't stop them being ethnic slurs. Unbelievable He's right though. He's wrong and so are you. Is the word "caucasian" offensive? Care to comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Descriptive perhaps, but backwards. And yes, racist.It used to be in the US most people referred to all people with any Asian background as Orientals. It could be a Chinese-American whose family has been there since 1850 or an Indonesian just arrived, all Orientals. Now when someone uses that term, it marks them as ignorant and a likely racist. I just accept it. I also use the term here because it is the only way to communicate with the natives. I don't see my role as the great white educator. Like I said before, in Thailand you take the good with the bad, and it was exactly like the USA, I wouldn't have gone to all this trouble to move here! This is Thailand. This is Asia. This is not the US. Your way of thinking does not apply here in Thailand. There are of course a lot of bad things in thailand but at least I can tell you the word "farang" is not one of them. And this speaking from a person born and grown up in Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 It is only negative if used with a negative tone of voice. That's just silly. If the word, used on it's own, can have negative connotations then it's an ethnic slur no different from any other. The fact that nigga and paki can be used without negative connotations if said with the right tone doesn't stop them being ethnic slurs. The word farang used to describe 'whites' is not intrinsically derogatory. As another poster said, it is not even worth discussing. Man, the ignorance on this forum sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) If we are getting into the origin of the word, I doubt we have the entire answer.Note this: In Ethiopia the word faranji is the Amharic word for foreigner. ... You raise a good point. Farang and variants are used throughout the ME, in Malaysia (Batu Feringhi) and elsewhere. It dates back hundreds of years. It was not, and is not a derogatory or deprecative term in Thailand. Like any word, the way it is used can be rude,but the word is neutral. Here is one example. If a Thai says, 'What does the farang want' it isn't the word farang that is rude, it is referring to someone in their presence as if they were not there that is considered rude. Same with someone hissing farang, or saying in in a snide manner. Again, it is not the word in and of itself that is the problem. I don't know why some farangs just can't understand that! Edited November 23, 2007 by qualtrough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 but it is widely used as an ethnic slur. According to? The ET Encyclopedia? And to compare it with the "N" word just proves your ignorance. Why are some people so stubborn? They are 2 different languages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 The one Thai word that Westerners seem to use all the time, and crops up all over this forum, is “Farang”. But isn’t it almost meaningless and vaguely insulting to the countries and cultures we come from? No. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) There are of course a lot of bad things in thailand but at least I can tell you the word "farang" is not one of them.And this speaking from a person born and grown up in Asia. Your opinion. I actually think outsiders can see the bad things about a culture much more clearly than natives. Nose picking. Oppressive class structure. Kleptocracy. The word farang, I do think it is one of the very mild negative things and isn't worth any kind of crusade or even commenting about to Thais. The word can be used innocently and it can be used in an insulting way, but it still reflects a very unsophisticated world view. Which the flip side (sorry Pinoys) is that it can be quite charming to live among un-PC-people. As to why we use the word, we use it because the Thais use it and we are in Thailand. If they didn't use it, we would just refer to the same group as either white people, caucasions, European descent people, or by their nationality. One problem with us here is very few of us are on the road to ever being Thai. In that sense, we are a race apart from Chinese Thais and Indian Thais. Whats the point of just posting Yes, or No, without expressing why you think that way? Edited November 23, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 but it is widely used as an ethnic slur. According to? The ET Encyclopedia? And to compare it with the "N" word just proves your ignorance. Why are some people so stubborn? They are 2 different languages! Negro and caucasian are both races. You said 'farang' means caucasian in Thai, which it does. Therefore my usage of Negro in the context I posted is entirely correct as that is the context in Thai, in which the word 'farang' is often used. Do try to keep up old bean, I'm getting a bit sick of repeating myself. You wrote: It would be similar as me referring to all black people in the UK as negros. It has a proper meaning but is also used as a slur.Such as, "look at the negro", to my friends or "would the negro like a drink?" when I am speaking to a group of his friends or directly to him. If you don't think black people would get offended by that, then I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken. So is the word "negro" offensive or not offensive? Do you find the word "caucasion" offensive? caucasion = farang, if it is offensive, care to give me the thai word for "caucasion"? Mr thai expert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I have a serious question! Please experts out there! What is the thai word for "caucasion"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 There are of course a lot of bad things in thailand but at least I can tell you the word "farang" is not one of them.And this speaking from a person born and grown up in Asia. Your opinion. I actually think outsiders can see the bad things about a culture much more clearly than natives. Nose picking. Oppressive class structure. Kleptocracy. The word farang, I do think it is one of the very mild negative things and isn't worth any kind of crusade or even commenting about to Thais. The word can be used innocently and it can be used in an insulting way, but it still reflects a very unsophisticated world view. Which the flip side (sorry Pinoys) is that it can be quite charming to live among un-PC-people. As to why we use the word, we use it because the Thais use it and we are in Thailand. If they didn't use it, we would just refer to the same group as either white people, caucasions=farang(what is the problem if you are using it yourself?), European descent people, or by their nationality. One problem with us here is very few of us are on the road to ever being Thai. In that sense, we are a race apart from Chinese Thais and Indian Thais. Whats the point of just posting Yes, or No, without expressing why you think that way? Are you asking me? Do I have to explain why I think the colour of a blackboard is black? OK, if you insist, go ask any thai if they think you are a farang. Tell me if there is one thai who says "no, you are not a farang". What is wrong with the west? You mean you can't call a black person black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 So is the word "negro" offensive or not offensive? Do you find the word "caucasion" offensive?caucasion = farang, if it is offensive, care to give me the thai word for "caucasion"? Mr thai expert? If the word Caucasian was used in the same context that Thais use 'farang' then I would find it offensive. As would a black person if I used Negro to generalise about people of his race, as I pointed out in the example earlier. I have already agreed with you that 'farang' means caucasian in Thai. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be. What context are you talking about? How do the thais use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemiddie Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) I thought FARANG meant any NON Thai person...........not just restricted to caucasions/whites? Edited November 23, 2007 by stevemiddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I thought FARANG meant any NON Thai person...........not just restricted to whites? Wrong. Farang means white people only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemiddie Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) I thought FARANG meant any NON Thai person...........not just restricted to whites? Wrong. Farang means white people only. Ok. I,ll tell that to my Thai school principal. We have a Pakistani working but he is also called FARANG. His skin colour is errrrrrrrrrr brown. Edited November 23, 2007 by stevemiddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuiBond Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 When I have pointed out to Thai people that the majority of European countries are not English speaking, that many States of the US have more Spanish than English speakers and that there are millions of Asians, Africans, Hispanic people, Afro-Caribbeans, etc living in the Western world, they look blankly at me. Don't they always? I bet Chinks have a common word for big white people who wonder on their land. American Indians had already back in the day. FALANG is nothing more to you that you understand that they are talking about you. Luckily most of us don't understand what the heck the rest of the conversation is all about so its always easy to smile back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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