Why Do Western People Use The Word "farang"?

[sbk]

Yeah but comments like that about the guy in the thong speedo at the bank don't count, sylviex

[sylviex]

Yeah but comments like that about the guy in the thong speedo at the bank don't count, sylviex

It occurs to me now that it's on precisely such occasions that I might use "farang" - perhaps an attempt to distance myself !

I normally do avoid the word because (just a personal thing - I know most use it just for convenience) it feels I'd be somehow trying to make out I was very knowledgeable about Thailand. "Foreigner" feels weird, too, (maybe that should be the Thais ), so I find other methods.

I just remembered an expression Australians used long ago for Europeans of uncertain nationality - "Continentals" . It was rather patronising in some peculiar way.

Edited November 29, 2007 by sylviex

[wilko]

Really? So if the person was the only Asian in a group of white people you'd say "The guy in the red shirt" instead of "The Asian guy" ?

So, if you are the only white skinned foreigner in a room would you be offended if someone said, "Its for the farang" or would it be better if they said "The guy in the red shirt" even though you are the only white person there?

Lets face it, Thailand is fairly homogeneous. It is not multi-cultural. So, there really hasn't been any need to develop alternative ways to explain people who look differently.

And its pretty clear most foreigners pick it up from listening to local usage.

I am really not sure why this is such a big deal or why it even matters if foreigners in Thailand use the term farang when referring to foreigners of unknown nationality.

Thailand only looks "homogeneous" if you are a WASP or similar!

[ade100]

So, in Thailand the word Farang is used, in Singapore the word Caucasian is used. So, perhaps the answer is as simple as that. Thai people use the word farang for all westerners of unknown nationality. Singaporeans use Caucasian, according to you. Why wouldn't someone adapt a useful word used by the natives of where they live?

Curious then, what word would you use in Europe? Would you guess on the nationality? Bit dangerous that, might offend if you get it wrong.

Before coming to Asia Pac, I lived in the South of France and in London - both very multi-cultural regions. It was not possible to guess someones nationality. You get so many people from Asian or African origins who were born in Europe and hold EU passports. So even if a person looks Chinese, they could easily by British or French. I agree with sylviex. Race is too loaded and too didfficult to know. I would just say "the guy in the blue shirt" or the "girl with the short dark hair".

As another poster pointed out, Thailand is a long way from being multi-cultural. Also it is very difficult for anyone born outside the country to ever get Thai nationality.

[Jingthing]

The best way to determine nationality is to ask, but when those Nepalese tailors try to guess and ask I always say Bulgarian.

[ade100]

Why wouldn't someone adapt a useful word used by the natives of where they live?

Because, my point is its not that useful because its so vague. Posters have pointed out that some people from India or Pakistan are referred to as "farang", "middle eastern food" can be called "farang". I could understand as all adopting the Thai word for, say, "pineapple", because it has a precise meaning. But in English we have so many better words to describe race and nationality.

[sylviex]

The best way to determine nationality is to ask, but when those Nepalese tailors try to guess and ask I always say Bulgarian.

Agree it's best to ask. There are parts of the world which are, or have been at times, very tricky to refer to, and the wisest thing to do is accept whatever label the person prefers for themself.

Assuming jingthing is not Bulgarian, I can't figure out if he may have just offended all the Bulgarians or not .

[Jingthing]

Its a useful word in Thailand. I believe most of us probably use it quite often, talking to Thais, talking to other farangs. In itself, it is not a slur. The fact that is indeed often used negatively or used when a a more specific description is known (nationality, the person's actual name, etc.), doesn't make it a bad word.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Jingthing

[mr_hippo]

Let's fast forward 500 years, we have all been reincarnated in different guises a few times. I will use today's terms as I do not know what equipment we will be using.

I've just checked my e-mail, now to check the new topics on ThaiVisa and what do I see? The following topics:-

How can I get round the new visa regulation?

Should I buy the new Toyota or Honda?

My wife is a bar girl but she's different!

Where can I buy Coleman's mustard in Hua Hin?

and - surprise, surprise -

Why Do Western People Use The Word "farang"?

[Jingthing]

Assuming the human species survives 500 years (I would bet against that) racial theorists are saying we are all going to blend so much that racism will go away because everyone will be a "mutt".

[ade100]

Assuming the human species survives 500 years (I would bet against that) racial theorists are saying we are all going to blend so much that racism will go away because everyone will be a "mutt".

I have heard racial theorists saying that we will branch into distinct races - the "haves" and the "have nots" as predicted by HG Wells. In which case I am sure there will be a whole new syntax we can discuss...

[Pepe']

Since the OP was concerned about foreigners in Thailand using the word, I can't say that I've heard many use it in a hostile manner.

I have heard it used by foreigners with some disgust !

-----------------------

That's disgusting...

[Chloe82]

Since the OP was concerned about foreigners in Thailand using the word, I can't say that I've heard many use it in a hostile manner.

I have heard it used by foreigners with some disgust !

-----------------------

That's disgusting...

Discusting but not worth discussing.

[meemiathai]

Good point, maybe farang food is anything not Thai or Asian. Again, we are dealing with an insular culture, for better or worse.

Only read the last page, but that seems right to me.

Much like the Chinese, who call themselves "people from the middle kingdom" and refer to everyone else as "outsiders". I am sure other cultures do the same.

I beg your pardon?

[meemiathai]

Yeah of course, but if you have a farang buying it at a farang market, calling it farang food kind of makes sense in Thai logic, eh?

No, it's not called farang food, it's called kaek food, maybe his girlfriend can not tell the difference, however this is no representitive of Thai people, only maybe a certain sector of society.

I feel I have to defend my girlfriend here. The sector of society that my girlfriend is from is the professional sector that was educated to Masters Degree level (she got hers from a "farang" university).

The point I was trying to make, with humour, was that the word "farang" can sometimes be used to mean foreign and, as I said in my original post, is so vague it's almost meaningless.

I say again you are wrong. It has got nothing to do with foreign!

As a noun it means caucasian. As an adjective it means anything that involves caucasian. Please ask her!

Regarding what you bought, she doesn't know if that was indian or whatever. So she just thought a farang buying food which is not thai is farang food.

[mesohappy314]

The English phrase "Thai people" (many theories as to its origin) is used both as an adjective and a noun to talk about Thai descent (commonly called Asian) people and/or their cultures/countries.

That is silly because Thai people is about the people from a SPECIFIC nation, while farang is without question a more ambiguous word. There is no actual nation called FARANGLAND. Got it now?

You still insist on painting them with the same brush. Don't you know some are from Bangkok, some from Isaan (still generalizing), etc. etc. ad nauseum. You are silly if you don't see where this is leading.

[wilko]

The best way to determine nationality is to ask, but when those Nepalese tailors try to guess and ask I always say Bulgarian.

Are you Bulgarian then?

[meemiathai]

The best way to determine nationality is to ask, but when those Nepalese tailors try to guess and ask I always say Bulgarian.

Are you Bulgarian then?

What nationality is that farang with the stupid posts?

[undercover]

And yes it would be like anyone from one of the "oriental" countries referring to themselves as a "chinky" or a "slant eyes"

It took us 311 posts to get there but we got there.

Your so wrong that i cant be bothered to even start.

If you learn to speak and understand the language at a reasonable level (took me around 240 hours in class and alot of self study) you will have a far better understanding of these cultural differences.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Im confused with your comment. my spoken Thai is very good but I fail to see why that would make a difference to someone from China living in the UK refering to himself as a "Chinky" or a Slant ?

[ade100]

Yeah of course, but if you have a farang buying it at a farang market, calling it farang food kind of makes sense in Thai logic, eh?

No, it's not called farang food, it's called kaek food, maybe his girlfriend can not tell the difference, however this is no representitive of Thai people, only maybe a certain sector of society.

I feel I have to defend my girlfriend here. The sector of society that my girlfriend is from is the professional sector that was educated to Masters Degree level (she got hers from a "farang" university).

The point I was trying to make, with humour, was that the word "farang" can sometimes be used to mean foreign and, as I said in my original post, is so vague it's almost meaningless.

I say again you are wrong.

Oh everyone's saying I'm wrong. Its just taking a while for everyone to catch up :-)

It has got nothing to do with foreign!

OK the exclamation point has convinced me :-)

As a noun it means caucasian. As an adjective it means anything that involves caucasian. Please ask her!

Oh I've asked her. Believe me. We've got maps out. I've asked for the boundaries of "farangland". We have explored every possible definition of "farang" you can imagine. I know how to treat a girl :-)

Regarding what you bought, she doesn't know if that was indian or whatever. So she just thought a farang buying food which is not thai is farang food.

Well seeing as I cook for her every weekend and each meal is accompanied with a little lecture on its origins she should have some idea as to where it comes from. Unless, of course, my little letures are not quite as rivetting as I like to think :-)

[ade100]

And yes it would be like anyone from one of the "oriental" countries referring to themselves as a "chinky" or a "slant eyes"

It took us 311 posts to get there but we got there.

Your so wrong that i cant be bothered to even start.

If you learn to speak and understand the language at a reasonable level (took me around 240 hours in class and alot of self study) you will have a far better understanding of these cultural differences.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Im confused with your comment. my spoken Thai is very good but I fail to see why that would make a difference to someone from China living in the UK refering to himself as a "Chinky" or a Slant ?

Ok let me try to explain myself a bit better. An uneducated Brit from a small village may not know anything about Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, etc. They have probably heard of China and Japan but not much else. It is also likely they would be unable to distinguish between someone from say Thailand or China. I have heard people use the term "Chink" or "yellow man" to mean anyone who is vaguely "oriental" looking. So a Thai in the UK could easily be reffered to by one of these terms. The question is would a Thai in the UK adopt these words and refer to themselves as a "chink" or a "yellow man"? I doubt it. I suspect they would have more self respect, more respect for their country, culture and origins. But aren't we doing the equivalent when we adopt the word "farang" and refer to ourselves as "farang"?

[Jingthing]

OK. bottom line again:

Farang is to Asian as White Devil is to Gook.

Farang is just a Thai way to generally talk about all things/people of European descent.

However, I do understand why many people feel that the word farang is a derogatory word because it really is quite often used in a deregatory way, and it silly to deny it.

I used the word before this discussion. I didn't think much about it. Now that I have, I will use it even more.

(I just like the sound of my voice when it says BULGARIAN and Nepalese tailors don't seem to know what to make of it. I take any pleasure I can. Also shows you can ask someone's nationality but that doesn't mean they won't lie.)

Edited November 30, 2007 by Jingthing

[wilko]

The best way to determine nationality is to ask, but when those Nepalese tailors try to guess and ask I always say Bulgarian.

Are you Bulgarian then?

What nationality is that farang with the stupid posts?

same as you!

[wilko]

And yes it would be like anyone from one of the "oriental" countries referring to themselves as a "chinky" or a "slant eyes"

It took us 311 posts to get there but we got there.

Your so wrong that i cant be bothered to even start.

If you learn to speak and understand the language at a reasonable level (took me around 240 hours in class and alot of self study) you will have a far better understanding of these cultural differences.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Im confused with your comment. my spoken Thai is very good but I fail to see why that would make a difference to someone from China living in the UK refering to himself as a "Chinky" or a Slant ?

Ok let me try to explain myself a bit better. An uneducated Brit from a small village may not know anything about Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, etc. They have probably heard of China and Japan but not much else. It is also likely they would be unable to distinguish between someone from say Thailand or China. I have heard people use the term "Chink" or "yellow man" to mean anyone who is vaguely "oriental" looking. So a Thai in the UK could easily be reffered to by one of these terms. The question is would a Thai in the UK adopt these words and refer to themselves as a "chink" or a "yellow man"? I doubt it. I suspect they would have more self respect, more respect for their country, culture and origins. But aren't we doing the equivalent when we adopt the word "farang" and refer to ourselves as "farang"?

The way it is used is to group and generalise - so it doesn't matter whether intention is negative or not...it is symptomatic of a mindset that is fraught with issues.

[Chloe82]

And yes it would be like anyone from one of the "oriental" countries referring to themselves as a "chinky" or a "slant eyes"

It took us 311 posts to get there but we got there.

Your so wrong that i cant be bothered to even start.

If you learn to speak and understand the language at a reasonable level (took me around 240 hours in class and alot of self study) you will have a far better understanding of these cultural differences.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Im confused with your comment. my spoken Thai is very good but I fail to see why that would make a difference to someone from China living in the UK refering to himself as a "Chinky" or a Slant ?

Then you understand very well that the word 'Farang' (one meaning anyway) means 'Caucasian' and that the word's 'Chinky' and 'Slant' in English do not mean 'Asian'.

Quite simple realy.

[menorah]

The one Thai word that Westerners seem to use all the time, and crops up all over this forum, is "Farang". But isn't it almost meaningless and vaguely insulting to the countries and cultures we come from?

Farang derives from Farangset, meaning French.... the first western culture to visit Thailand.

It seems to be the modern generic term for foreigner and can be irritating when used relentlessly, grow a thicker skin and use being a Farang to your advantage.

Embrace the culture, use and discard what you want. Don't try to reinvent the West or you'll soon be looking for another country to settle!

Paul.

[sylviex]

Meemiathia,

Much like the Chinese, who call themselves "people from the middle kingdom" and refer to everyone else as "outsiders". I am sure other cultures do the same.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I beg your pardon?

jung guo = middle country = China

jung guo ren = middle country person = Chinese

wai guo ren = outside country person = foreigner (often becomes "lao wai" = old,venerable outsider, though I am afraid is quite often used with opposite intent)

Edited November 30, 2007 by sylviex

[Gimbo]

When you guys come to an agreement on the use of the word farang by farangs, will you be kind and let the rest of us know the result.

In the vent of it being banned, you may add it to this list:

1. Thou shalt not wear flip flops in the public

2. Thou shalt not wear a yellow t-shirt

3. Thou shalt not consort with a member of the opposite sex, unless she has white skin and has a university degree (preferably a princess)

4. Thou shalt not hold hands in public with your loved one

5. Thou shalt not wear graven symbols or anything else of Thai origin on thy body

6. If thou are a member of Thai Whinging (sorry Thai Visa) thou shalt moan and complain and whinge about everything Thai

7. Thou shalt agree that Thai women are all gold diggers. Double true if she comes from Isaan, unless she has white skin and a university degree and/ or has royal blood.

8. Thou shalt not take thy Isaan girlfriend or wife shopping at the Emporium

[meadish_sweetball]

If thou are a member of Thai Whinging (sorry Thai Visa) thou shalt moan and complain and whinge about everything Thai

Happy to have you on board, member no 34,456.

[Stephen Cleary]

Why do Western people use the word 'Farang'?

Here's another one. How come causasians in Thailand always use 'Western people' and 'Thai people' instead of 'Westerners' and 'Thais'?