Why Do Western People Use The Word "farang"?

[4Trax]

I have been a member of other similar Thai forums but quit posting long ago because it became a waste of time. I have finaally seen enough b/s in this post to pull me out of the lurking category. For the record, I have a 36 year history with Thailand, visiting on average something like 3 months/year as well as living there full time for 3 1/2 years. My experience is diversified as I've lived in the major cities as well as small villages with no running water or electricity. I do speak the language, but not as well as I'd like and do NOT consider myself fluent. But ... it never ceases to amaze me how someone can visit Thailand on a few holidays and become overnight experts on Thai language as well as culture.

Personally, when I have a question and seek out an answer, I weigh heavily on the credentials of the people who may give me an answer. Sometimes when I read this forum I feel many here simply enjoy hearing themselves "talk" and have no desire to learn or possibly alter their blindly conceived opinions.

As pointed out by others, this thread could have ended way back on page 4 with Qualtrough's post but appears destined to continue ad nauseam. If anyone here REALLY wants to know the real explanation, I'll paste his post here (as others have already done) one more time hoping that maybe it will sink in this time around.

I speak, read, and write Thai, and currently work part time as an editor and translator (Thai to English) for a major corporation. I have studied Thai off and on since 1980, including university courses, and have lived here for more than 16 years since first setting foot here in 1980. I say that not to brag, but to tell you that I know far more than a 'modicum' of Thai and am not naive. I can tell you that your interpretation of the word 'farang' is completely and utterly incorrect. Farang in and off itself is a neutral word. It can indeed be used negatively by those who are not happy with farangs, but so can any word. The vast, vast majority of Thais that I know and interact with do not attach the stigma you feel it has to the word. If you and a few others here want to act like sensitive little PC flowers that is your prerogative, but I doubt very much that you are going to persuade anyone, and you will certainly not persuade any Thais.

Sounds like Qualtrough has pretty good "credentials" to me. I completely agree with this post and couldn't say it any better myself ... so I won't bother.

[Jingthing]

I agree with what Qualtrough says but that does not nullify my point that it tells us something about this society that diverse white people are put into a single bag, while diverse Asians are not.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[Ave]

I agree with what Qualtrough says but that does not nullify my point that it tells us something about this society that diverse white people are put into a single bag, while diverse Asians are not.

Search for the positive and you shall find it.

Search for the negative and you shall find it.

You will always find and often become what you are searching for.

[Jingthing]

Search for the positive and you shall find it.

Search for the negative and you shall find it.

You will always find and often become what you are searching for.

So many cereal box philosophers on this board, it warms the heart. Do you sign your letters with a happy face, by any chance?

The point I am making is an observable fact; you are free to interpret it as you wish.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[Ave]

Search for the positive and you shall find it.

Search for the negative and you shall find it.

You will always find and often become what you are searching for.

So many cereal box philosophers on this board, it warms the heart. Do you sign your letters with a happy face, by any chance?

The point I am making is an observable fact; you are free to interpret it as you wish.

C'mon Jingthing, I behave like that when I'm having a bad day. If you really think it this way I feel sad for you and I don't mean it sarcastically. I feel quite glad for realising, though, that despite this common resentment toward the use of the word 'farang' I'm not the only one who doesn't mind it and concentrates on more important things about a culture. Nite-nite

[qualtrough]

I agree with what Qualtrough says but that does not nullify my point that it tells us something about this society that diverse white people are put into a single bag, while diverse Asians are not.

Well, you are wrong again. I just googled ชาวเอเชีย (chao asia) which is the formal term for Asian people and received 121,000 hits. I googled คนเอเชีย (kon asia) which would be the less formal term, and received 101,000 hits. Thus it appears that not only do Thais put Asians 'into a single bag', they do so in writing, and with some frequency.

Here is one example: คนเอเชียผิวเหลืองอย่างผมมีความทรงจำที่ไม่ค่อยดีนักในอดีตเกี่ยวกับออสเตรเลีย และยังคงฝังแน่นในจิตใจลึกๆ, which I will take a stab at translating as, "Asian people with yellow skin like me have had not so fond memories in the past concerning Australia, and they are still buried firmly in our hearts."

Rather than coming up with another face-saving excuse, why don't you just admit that you were completely wrong and get on with your life?

Edited November 25, 2007 by qualtrough

[Jingthing]

What is the Thai equivalent of the word farang for ชาวเอเชีย?

BTW, I do reject your google research.

In talking to Thais, the usual description of white people is farangs, while if we are talking about a Japanese person, they usually call this person a Japanese (in Thai), and NOT a ชาวเอเชีย. I would go so far as to guess most people have also noticed this in REAL LIFE. Now those arguments I would like to hear, people who have been here for many years who deny this from their personal experience, I would be very surprised to learn if most people have not observed the same thing I have (and from that I would learn something, not from your google hits).

We had a poster here who is always scolding his relatives: CALL ME AN ENGLISHMAN NOT A FARANG! I find this totally believable. Can you really imagine a Japanese married to Thai having that same problem with being correctly called a Japanese?

So, no, nice try, and interesting evidence, but do you seriously think you have proven anything with google hits? It is funny that you think you hit a home run with that, more like a bunt.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

farang' I'm not the only one who doesn't mind it and concentrates on more important things about a culture. Nite-nite

I NEVER said I minded! Read posts before dissing. Geez!

Observing what is going on is not the same thing as letting it BOTHER you. If this kind of thing bothered me, I wouldn't live here.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[Chloe82]

After reading through this thread and other threads that Jingthing has contributed to, all i can say is that i pity him/her in a way, Jingthing seems to misunderstand things alot more than the average person.

[meom]

Could be reffered to as 'dam farang' (black farang).

Farang Si Dahm is the term I've always heard. I 've also heard them just use the word "negro" a lot too.

'dam farang' is ungrammatical. Unlike English, Thai places the description after the thing described, so it should be 'farang dam'.

I've heard 'farang dam', and 'khon phiw dam', 'khon aefrikaa' and 'negro'. The most common ones seems to be 'khon phiw dam', and 'khon aefrikaa'.

"Chocolate Man" is quite common to.

[Jingthing]

After reading through this thread and other threads that Jingthing has contributed to, all i can say is that i pity him/her in a way, Jingthing seems to misunderstand things alot more than the average person.

Instead of a pity party, why don't you ARTICULATE your opinion on the topic at hand? But thank you in a way, being average would ruin my day.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[qualtrough]

What is the Thai equivalent of the word farang for ชาวเอเชีย?

BTW, I do reject your google research.

In talking to Thais, the usual description of white people is farangs, while if we are talking about a Japanese person, they usually call this person a Japanese (in Thai), and NOT a ชาวเอเชีย. I would go so far as to guess most people have also noticed this in REAL LIFE. So, no, nice try, and interesting evidence, but do you seriously think you have proven anything with google hits? It is funny that you think you hit a home run with that, more like a bunt.

The Thai equivalent would be either chao or kon farang, for which Google is replete with usage examples. I imagine your conversations with Thais are limited to English, otherwise you would know that Thais refer to Chao Jeraman (Germans), Chao Farangsay (the French) , Chao Angkrit (Englishmen), etc. all the time. They do that if they want or need to refer to the inhabitant(s) of a specific European (or Asian, or African, etc.) country, and they use the term 'farang' if they want or need to refer to white (European ethnicity, caucasian, whatever) people. It is as simple as that. As someone far more capable in Thai than myself (Meadish Sweetball) has affirmed, the word itself is neutral and does not in and of itself convey any negative sense. Anyone who has made it beyond bar-stool Thai also knows that Thais refer to individuals by ethnic or national terms all the time, e.g. Germans, Englishmen, etc.

It is very clear that you know next to nothing about the Thai language, and that you are a person who cannot admit to making a mistake even in the face of overwhelming evidence documenting your errors. I suggest you stick to posting about things that you have some knowledge about in order to avoid the cyber humiliation you have brought on yourself.

Edited November 25, 2007 by qualtrough

[Jingthing]

Qual, I know you are trying to show off now, but again read my words. I never said Thais don't sometimes refer to Europeans based on nationality. I am asserting that in my experience mostly farangs are farangs, and Asians are specified to their specific Asian nation or ethnicity (mostly). That is my experience, sorry, and I do understand the level of Thai you are referring to. It is arrogant of you to assume that I don't.

And I will admit an error on this just as soon as someone presents real overwhelming evidence. If five people who had been here for years and understand at least basic Thai agreed with you that Thai people don't USUALLY call white people farangs rather than their nationality MUCH MORE than Thai people don't specify more specifically what kind of Asian they are talking about, that would suffice. You haven't even asserted that specific point.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

What is the Thai equivalent of the word farang for ชาวเอเชีย?

BTW, I do reject your google research.

In talking to Thais, the usual description of white people is farangs, while if we are talking about a Japanese person, they usually call this person a Japanese (in Thai), and NOT a ชาวเอเชีย. I would go so far as to guess most people have also noticed this in REAL LIFE. Now those arguments I would like to hear, people who have been here for many years who deny this from their personal experience, I would be very surprised to learn if most people have not observed the same thing I have (and from that I would learn something, not from your google hits).

We had a poster here who is always scolding his relatives: CALL ME AN ENGLISHMAN NOT A FARANG! I find this totally believable. Can you really imagine a Japanese married to Thai having that same problem with being correctly called a Japanese?

So, no, nice try, and interesting evidence, but do you seriously think you have proven anything with google hits? It is funny that you think you hit a home run with that, more like a bunt.

Jingthing, what do you think a thai person will call if he sees an asian looking person but doesn't know if he is japanese, korean, chinese or whatever....?

I say again, what you have said, regardless if you are offended by the word or not, your understanding of it is totally wrong!

Speaking again from an asian. By the way, can you tell from an Ethiopean, Nigerian, South African....... so on? Or do you just call them black?

[Chloe82]

After reading through this thread and other threads that Jingthing has contributed to, all i can say is that i pity him/her in a way, Jingthing seems to misunderstand things alot more than the average person.

Instead of a pity party, why don't you ARTICULATE your opinion on the topic at hand? But thank you in a way, being average would ruin my day.

Because your arguments are so pathetic that they don't warrant a responce. I realy don't know why qualtrough is feeding you.

Maybe your time would be better served reading a Thai language book rather than floating around here all day and night.

Good night.

[madjbs]

It seems Jingthing is referring to the PC’ness of the word. Perhaps in the U.S it would be rude to group together people in such a way but why should we care what the U.S or the west see as rude or negative etc.. We are not in a PC crazed country; we are in Thailand, so why on earth should we care about such inconsequential rubbish as the PC way to group people when 99.9% of people couldn’t care less.

Edited November 25, 2007 by madjbs

[Jingthing]

Jingthing, what do you think a thai person will call if he sees an asian looking person but doesn't know if he is japanese, korean, chinese or whatever....?

I think when the Thai person learns the Asian person's nationality, then the Asian person is usually referred to by his nationality. When the European person's nationality is known, I have observed a tendency to continue to call the person farang.

I say again, what you have said, regardless if you are offended by the word or not, your understanding of it is totally wrong!

Spell out how I am wrong.

Speaking again from an asian. By the way, can you tell from an Ethiopean, Nigerian, South African....... so on? Or do you just call them black?

I can easily tell an Ethiopian from the others because I know alot of Ethiopians. If I had anything to do with the person, I would ask and then refer to them by their nationality.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

It seems Jingthing is referring to the PC’ness of the word. Perhaps in the U.S it would be rude to group together people in such a way but why should we care what the U.S or the west see as rude or negative etc.. We are not in a PC crazed country; we are in Thailand, so why on earth should we care about such inconsequential rubbish as the PC way to group people when 99.9% of people couldn’t care less.

Only observing a greater tendency to group non-Asians here. I don't know how people can seriously deny that. If it is rude, then I am only observing a tendency here to spare Asian people this rudeness.

[qualtrough]

After reading through this thread and other threads that Jingthing has contributed to, all i can say is that i pity him/her in a way, Jingthing seems to misunderstand things alot more than the average person.

Instead of a pity party, why don't you ARTICULATE your opinion on the topic at hand? But thank you in a way, being average would ruin my day.

Because your arguments are so pathetic that they don't warrant a responce. I realy don't know why qualtrough is feeding you.

Maybe your time would be better served reading a Thai language book rather than floating around here all day and night.

Good night.

Chloe82 you are right. I will stop feeding him, which is just as well as I am almost out of peanuts!

[Jingthing]

I am almost out of peanuts!

I noticed that.

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[madjbs]

It is only rude to you because that is what you have been lead to believe in your home country. There is no reason why the rest of the world should accept these standards. Like I said, I guess the majority of the world couldn’t care less about stuff like this. There is lots of things that farangs do that would be considered rude by Thais here as well by the way.

Edited November 25, 2007 by madjbs

[Jingthing]

It is only rude to you because that is what you have been lead to believe in your home country. There is no reason why the rest of the world should accept these standards. Like I said, I guess the majority of the world couldn’t care less about stuff like this.

Again putting words in my mouth. I said IF it is rude. I am observing a difference in treatment. Others do not see this? Honestly?

Edited November 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[meom]

It seems Jingthing is referring to the PC’ness of the word. Perhaps in the U.S it would be rude to group together people in such a way but why should we care what the U.S or the west see as rude or negative etc.. We are not in a PC crazed country; we are in Thailand, so why on earth should we care about such inconsequential rubbish as the PC way to group people when 99.9% of people couldn’t care less.

Only observing a greater tendency to group non-Asians here. I don't know how people can seriously deny that. If it is rude, then I am only observing a tendency here to spare Asian people this rudeness.

The average red neck in the West wouldn't know the difference between a Thai, Filipino, Taiwanese or Japanese either and probably call them all Chinese or something so you see the same tendency in the West.

Same in the Gulf where most arabs are called arabs whether they be from Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman or the Emirates etc.

Edited November 25, 2007 by meom

[madjbs]

There are of course a lot of bad things in thailand but at least I can tell you the word "farang" is not one of them.

And this speaking from a person born and grown up in Asia.

Your opinion. I actually think outsiders can see the bad things about a culture much more clearly than natives. Nose picking. Oppressive class structure. Kleptocracy. The word farang, I do think it is one of the very mild negative things and isn't worth any kind of crusade or even commenting about to Thais. The word can be used innocently and it can be used in an insulting way, but it still reflects a very unsophisticated world view. Which the flip side (sorry Pinoys) is that it can be quite charming to live among un-PC-people. As to why we use the word, we use it because the Thais use it and we are in Thailand. If they didn't use it, we would just refer to the same group as either white people, caucasions, European descent people, or by their nationality. One problem with us here is very few of us are on the road to ever being Thai. In that sense, we are a race apart from Chinese Thais and Indian Thais.

Whats the point of just posting Yes, or No, without expressing why you think that way?

Well the last post may not say it is rude but from your previous posts in this thread its obvious what your views are. Which confirms my last post.

Edited November 25, 2007 by madjbs

[kingofthenight]

The word farang is from the French word "farangset" (I'm not sure I typed well).

Anyway, the meaning is "foreigner".

Of course the thais do an inconsiderate using of the word "farang" and sometimes it sound not good to us.

But you have to considered the low I.Q. of the most thais and the very low education and politeness, even they used to smile so much...

What about the thais call the black people "negro"?

That is very offensive. But they think (the thais), they can do and speak all freely.

The jet don't understand their limits. Infact they never do it.

They dislike to think before do, becouse they are spontaneous.

Perhaps over spontaneous......

I'm sorry for write it but we really cannot absolutely compared ours intelligence

with absence thinking of the thais brains.

No way.....

Infact the say that we (western people) think too much.

Instead I presume that they think very little. Maybe they don't!!!

So don't be worry about the meaning or the use of the word "farang".

Just try to pity them and don't put yourself in their level. You can't do it.

[madjbs]

I don't pitty Thai people but I pitty you.

[qualtrough]

The word farang is from the French word "farangset" (I'm not sure I typed well).

Anyway, the meaning is "foreigner".

Of course the thais do an inconsiderate using of the word "farang" and sometimes it sound not good to us.

But you have to considered the low I.Q. of the most thais and the very low education and politeness, even they used to smile so much...

What about the thais call the black people "negro"?

That is very offensive. But they think (the thais), they can do and speak all freely.

The jet don't understand their limits. Infact they never do it.

They dislike to think before do, becouse they are spontaneous.

Perhaps over spontaneous......

I'm sorry for write it but we really cannot absolutely compared ours intelligence

with absence thinking of the thais brains.

No way.....

Infact the say that we (western people) think too much.

Instead I presume that they think very little. Maybe they don't!!!

So don't be worry about the meaning or the use of the word "farang".

Just try to pity them and don't put yourself in their level. You can't do it.

Such an articulate and well-argued post! You have convinced me that Thais are not the intellectual equals of farangs! Oops, there's that darn word again.

[Dupont]

It is only rude to you because that is what you have been lead to believe in your home country. There is no reason why the rest of the world should accept these standards. Like I said, I guess the majority of the world couldn’t care less about stuff like this.

Again putting words in my mouth. I said IF it is rude. I am observing a difference in treatment. Others do not see this? Honestly?

Give it up Jingthing.

You are a brainwashed PC drone.

Perhaps Thailand is the wrong place for you.

I think the thing here is that is not necessary to refer to people by the PC nationalily, etchinity etc.

If a Thai person says falang does so and so, and the Thai person he/she/it/ms being addressed understands who the orignal he/she/it/MS is referring to, it's mission accomplished.

you carry on with your drivel by all means, but dont expect to convert anybody on here.

[Manchester]

I don't pitty Thai people but I pitty you.

Agreed.

The term " farang " is offensive to everyone? Why?

Are many posters upset that Thailand does not follow Western standards and principles?

I have a GREAT idea! In the UK we have Pakistani,s, Arabs.....Muslims etc. They must be thinking...........The UK must make sure all the whiten women wear VEILS!

It won,t happen of course. The UK is the UK.

Same same Thailand is Thailand.

They call us FARANGS.

Get used to it.

[endure]

Let's keep it civil and within TV rules please, boys & girls.