Thais And Swastikas?

[disgruntled]

There's an issue here but at the same time there are so many more flags and icons that are in our society which we don't seem to care about. What about Trojan marching bands and Russian flags? The romans murdered many. Stalin murdered 6 million too. Some people might see military uniforms in general as a symbol of murder - should civilians really wear them? Confederate flags represent slavery? Could the the American flag be a symbol of oppression? What does the US flag mean to Vietnamese people - 2 million died in that war? Should Disney really be promoting films about Pirates who were mostly murderers? Doesn't a skull and cross bones represent death? What about nooses? That's a big story in the US right now. Diamonds and gold have come at the cost of the deaths of million around the world. What are the flags of the imperialist murderers of Europe? How many deaths does it take to get a flag banned? The whole thing is hypocrisy.

If the swastika is no big deal then I'm sure that you could put it as you avatar and after a while no one would complain. We all have different programming. Sometimes freedom is good but then again sometimes it's better no to use your freedom.

[paulsmithson]

Kinell!!!

[Kan Win]

The swastika has, for most of its history, been an ancient and noble symbol of cosmic order and stability. It is usually drawn with its arms pointing in a clockwise direction, so it is considered a solar symbol. It is a protective device used as a blessing or "auspicious sign," and is one of the many symbols used in India as a Hindu forehead mark, bindu or tilaka.

The Swastika

Read all about it.................................

The Colonel, Kan Win

[IMA_FARANG]

You'd think even someone with the most basic knowledge of WW2 would avoid having this symbol on their person?

You would, wouldn't you?

What is up with that? Did they just skip a few chapters in the history books.

I think "Yes".

The Swastika is an important symbol in Buddhism, Hinduism & Jainism. It can be found throughout the Western World, even in Germany, it is not banned when it is used for the aforementioned religious purposes.

The ubiquitous Swastika Symbols found in Asia have nothing to do with Nazism & you should distinguish between the two.

I suspect this thread is going nowhere. Whether intentional, or not, such a topic is bound to provoke trouble & it wont be long before the moderators intervene.

I'm glad someone else pointed out that the Swastika is a religious symbol for many Asian religions. If the original poster wanted to, he/she would be able to see swastikas displayed on Buddhists temples.

However, I know of young people who do wear swastikas on their clothing. It is usually done as a symbol or rebellion. They don't really know what it means, and they don't really care what it means anyhow. It's the same idea as those who wear obscenities on T-shirts. Being young and stupid is what youth is about.

[surface]

Kinell!!!

Wow, was that really necessary? This is a public forum you know.

[JetsetBkk]

You'd think even someone with the most basic knowledge of WW2 would avoid having this symbol on their person?

You would, wouldn't you?

What is up with that? Did they just skip a few chapters in the history books.

I think "Yes".

The Swastika is an important symbol in Buddhism, Hinduism & Jainism. It can be found throughout the Western World, even in Germany, it is not banned when it is used for the aforementioned religious purposes.

The ubiquitous Swastika Symbols found in Asia have nothing to do with Nazism & you should distinguish between the two.

I suspect this thread is going nowhere. Whether intentional, or not, such a topic is bound to provoke trouble & it wont be long before the moderators intervene.

I'm glad someone else pointed out that the Swastika is a religious symbol for many Asian religions. If the original poster wanted to, he/she would be able to see swastikas displayed on Buddhists temples.

However, I know of young people who do wear swastikas on their clothing. It is usually done as a symbol or rebellion. They don't really know what it means, and they don't really care what it means anyhow. It's the same idea as those who wear obscenities on T-shirts. Being young and stupid is what youth is about.

As you say, being young and stupid is what youth is about.

But this has nothing to do with any religious symbol:

[ClaytonSeymour]

You'd think even someone with the most basic knowledge of WW2 would avoid having this symbol on their person?

You would, wouldn't you?

What is up with that? Did they just skip a few chapters in the history books.

I think "Yes".

The Swastika is an important symbol in Buddhism, Hinduism & Jainism. It can be found throughout the Western World, even in Germany, it is not banned when it is used for the aforementioned religious purposes.

The ubiquitous Swastika Symbols found in Asia have nothing to do with Nazism & you should distinguish between the two.

I suspect this thread is going nowhere. Whether intentional, or not, such a topic is bound to provoke trouble & it wont be long before the moderators intervene.

I'm glad someone else pointed out that the Swastika is a religious symbol for many Asian religions. If the original poster wanted to, he/she would be able to see swastikas displayed on Buddhists temples.

However, I know of young people who do wear swastikas on their clothing. It is usually done as a symbol or rebellion. They don't really know what it means, and they don't really care what it means anyhow. It's the same idea as those who wear obscenities on T-shirts. Being young and stupid is what youth is about.

As you say, being young and stupid is what youth is about.

But this has nothing to do with any religious symbol:

Ever heard of fancy dress?

Just because someone wears clothing such as this, does it mean they are intentionally glorifying Nazism? I don't think so. I've always believed that people who see such things negatively, already have corrupt minds themselves - hence they interpret things as something they clearly are not.

[qualtrough]

No stupider than people back home who use a buddha statue as a doorstop or incense burner, etc. As for those with the swastikas, WWII was thousands of miles and many years ago for those kids. I see more in the US than I do here anyway.

I guess you missed all the part of the death railroad...hardly thousands of miles away.

My bad. I meant the war in Europe.

[qualtrough]

No stupider than people back home who use a buddha statue as a doorstop or incense burner, etc.

Sorry, but do you really see no difference between a non-traditional and potentially disrespectful display of a symbol of peace and awareness in one's own home vs. a casual, very public display of a symbol of genocide? And by the way, I've seen Buddha incense burners for sale in Chiang Mai.

Apology accepted! I see no difference at all. Both are manifestations of an ignorance of other cultures/sensitivities. That is the key factor behind the swastikas you might occasionally on display here. As others have pointed out, I seriously doubt whether anyone sporting those here does so for genocidal reasons.

Edited November 26, 2007 by qualtrough

[madjbs]

It not surprising that Thai people don’t really know about the views of the symbol in the west, It was far away and not really very relevant to them at the time. Anyhow, if you went to a European school for example, you would find exactly the same thing. Very few students would know anything except the very vague details of WWII in Asia. Ask them about Korea or Khmer Rouge and they wouldn’t have a clue. People could wear a Khmer Rouge T shirt in England and not get many funny looks, same here with the swastika. And as for the dressing up part, people dress up as Romans at school dont they? Whats the difference?

Edited November 26, 2007 by madjbs

[qualtrough]

Really, what is the deal with these Thais? How can they not know how offensive that symbol is? Unforgivable, and just another example of their cultural insensitivity. That sort of thing would never be seen in Europe or the USA!

Prince Harry (in case you didn't know)

P.S. Can we blame this on the UK educational system?

[seonai]

I have gone through this page and removed awful references to jews and will close the thread if there is any more of it, Seonai on behalf of the Moderation Team

[Boo]

if it can't be kept civilised then it will be closed & warnings will be issued.

[cm das]

No stupider than people back home who use a buddha statue as a doorstop or incense burner, etc.

Sorry, but do you really see no difference between a non-traditional and potentially disrespectful display of a symbol of peace and awareness in one's own home vs. a casual, very public display of a symbol of genocide? And by the way, I've seen Buddha incense burners for sale in Chiang Mai.

Apology accepted! I see no difference at all. Both are manifestations of an ignorance of other cultures/sensitivities. That is the key factor behind the swastikas you might occasionally on display here. As others have pointed out, I seriously doubt whether anyone sporting those here does so for genocidal reasons.

Granted they're both examples of ignorance & insensitivity, and similar in that regard. In my opinion though, there's a real diffference of degree. The question of intent is important, and who really knows what the intent is here. But awareness is also important. When there are traditional and important elements of Buddhism that actively state that a Buddha image is not something inherently sacred and is more properly a source of inspiration than an object of worship or attachment, then I think those who use it in non-traditional ways can be forgiven for their private displays. In that case there's likely a positive intent and possibly even some awareness of Buddhist teachings. And the likelihood of offending is minimal. That's a very different situation from a public display of a Nazi symbol. Here the intent is likely just to shock or show rebellion and the level of ignorance and potential for offense are much higher. That's how I see it. Maybe you just don't agree. I can accept that.

And by the way, we're clearly talking about a Nazi symbol here. I have no problem with a religious swastika. I've seen them in many temples throughout Asia, and it's part of the logo of the kung <deleted> school where I train.

[Naam]

I see you start far more meaningful topics such as "A Snake In My Garden" and "I Hate My Neighbour's Lawn!"

indeed i did... to make fun of threads like yours.

[chanchao]

The Thais who wear or carry swastikas probably mean no harm, it's just an eye-catching logo / symbol to them and they probably enjoy the attention they get. Human nature.

At first, that's what I thought. To them it's a 'cool' logo. But on hindsight, if they have heard of Hitler, surely they must have heard of the holocaust and the death camps?

Or maybe it's a sign of rebellion to authority? I also laugh when I see people walking around with Che Guevara and old USSR flags T shirts . They love the king AND support communism? Hmmmmmmm.

Nothing to do with being rebellious. Reason is "fashion", the same answer you get when you ask about Thais who are not Christian why they're wearing a cross.

But then there CLEARLY is the lack of knowledge. I don't know WHAT they teach in schools here, but my boyfriend who has a bachelor's degree did not know ANYTHING about the Nazis at all!

So how much was on your standard curriculum about, say, the Japanese Emperors prior to the 20th century? History lessons tend to focus on one's own country/region, and those countries that influenced it.

[chanchao]

Another Swastika thread and another bunch of people rushing to the defence of the Thais.

Oh. And I thought people were just stating their opinion. I'm assuming that's okay with you also when that opinion doesn't blast the Thais and/or is different from yours? (Must be okay with you because this is a 'forum' and you joined it. If I'm mistaken though then I suggest writing a blog and then only reading your own blog. )

I have a question though: Suppose you're in Thailand and you're showing visiting friends/family around, and they come across some swastika, and they ask you about it. Then what do you say? Presumably your answer would include at least SOME references to religious symbolism in the Hindu and Buddhist tradition, i.e. you'd add balance right? So does that then mean that you're also 'defending the Thais'? Or is your answer to them: "Yeah, Thais are all nazi glorifying fascists!" ?

Indeed if you examine the Nazis performance on the battlefield it is easy to admire them.

There are forum rules that draw the line under a number of topics on the basis they may cause offense. And yet we have to put up with <deleted> like that.

I think it's strange more than offensive. Fortunately the nazis sucked ass whenever they got near military decision making, and by and large it wasn't even nazis on the battlefield but the German Army (Wehrmacht).

Edited November 27, 2007 by chanchao

[chanchao]

No stupider than people back home who use a buddha statue as a doorstop or incense burner, etc.

Sorry, but do you really see no difference between a non-traditional and potentially disrespectful display of a symbol of peace and awareness in one's own home vs. a casual, very public display of a symbol of genocide?

Correct. But hey, if you feel like being offended by something that's intended no worse than fashion statement, or as a religious symbol meaning 'prosperity', or both, then go right ahead. Farangs get worked up over all kinds of things; join the queue.

Edited November 27, 2007 by chanchao

[Stephen Cleary]

Agreed, a lotta bashing the Thais for their lack of insensitivity.

A lotta Farang too have no idea about Asian culture. Take this pair of Buddha sneakers below, produced by Adidas, which i had originally posted on my blogspot.

Edited November 27, 2007 by Stephen Cleary

[PanzerJohn]

The Nazi swastika is reversed compared to the religious one and is usually balanced on one arm point (mobile), whereas the religious symbol rests on one side.

[bangkokrick]

Really, what is the deal with these Thais? How can they not know how offensive that symbol is? Unforgivable, and just another example of their cultural insensitivity. That sort of thing would never be seen in Europe or the USA!

Prince Harry (in case you didn't know)

P.S. Can we blame this on the UK educational system?

Prince Harry wore the outfit at a BAD TASTE fancy dress party. It was in very bad taste but that was what the party was all about. I am not defending him by the way, just explaining.

Cheers Rick.

[Insight]

This has all been discussed before and pretty recently.

I personally believe the reason the symbol is somewhat prevalent is owing to it being a mix of all three:

a) (Mistaken for) the Buddhist Religious symbol.

b ) Clueless fashion victims.

c) Genuine Nazi sympathisers.

/edit instead of b )

Edited November 27, 2007 by Insight

[sriracha john]

I have gone through this page and removed awful references to jews and will close the thread if there is any more of it, Seonai on behalf of the Moderation Team

if it can't be kept civilised then it will be closed & warnings will be issued.

In the interest of assisting moderator energy conservation, perhaps it could save the mods time.... to look at another similar thread just last month...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=149002&hl=

and it's closure...

Fifteen more replies have been deleted on this thread from the posts during the last 48 hours. It's over, folks. Thanks for (some of) your contributions. Way past time to close the topic.

it won't get any better....

[sriracha john]

This has all been discussed before and pretty recently.

hahahahaha.... beat me to it by less than a minute, Insight....

Edited November 27, 2007 by sriracha john

[Neeranam]

Yeah, for example

<deleted> OFF W*NKERS (by The Exploited, a UK punk band)

I tried to tell a couple of youths that I had a fight with the Exploited in an Edinburgh bar 25 years ago - they didn't seem to care

[Chloe82]

It may come as a shock to some people to learn that it's estimated that about 40 percent of collectors of Hitler memorabilia are Jewish

[bendix]

What's so extraordinary about this thread is that the OP sees a couple of young kids wear a swastika, and it's evidence of either their ignorance, the crappiness of the Thai education system, a lack of interest in the war and - worse - anti-semitism.

When . let's face it . all it is is a bunch of kids being kids in the same way as I've seen punks and skinheads in numerous countries around the world doing it.

Is it really a big deal.

I have a picture of Stalin as my avatar and yet i consider myself slightly to the right of Gengis Khan on both political, economic and moral issues. It's called irony people.

[Neeranam]

If I remember correctly "svasti" is sanskrit for "good being".

It is a symblo for "spiritual victory", not what A. Hitler used it to mean.

As both Hindi and Thai come from Sanskrit, the Thai word for "good being" is written Sawasti, pronounced "sawatdee". The linguist guys from the Thai language section can explain better than I.

So swastika, and sawadee ka, very similar.

"Although the sight of a Nazi swastika still gives people a jolt, if they

look deeply and try to remember that the older meaning is benevolent, it

will be very uplifting.

The swastika is a spiritual symbol of good, spiritual victory,

betterment. It should be flying over the United Nations."

[Chloe82]

If people want to argue about the use of the swastika go to stormfront.org over 1200 members on line right now.

[uptou]

I've seen the odd poor old thai guy on a motorbike with the nazi style hat & swastika,but to be honest i found it quite funny.I just doubt very much that they are serious about the history of it,but if they are then the joke is on them.

Mai pen rai & nazis just dont seem to fit.

To me its abit like farang travellers who wear Che Guevara t-shirts because its cool more than really knowing anything about it.