Reporting On Foreign Teachers Requirement?

[Canada]

Yesterday after school, the Sub- Director informed me that he was informed that he was now required to send documentation regarding my education and qualifications to the MOE. We have a difficult time communicating so we summoned another English teacher to translate. She was more than happy to do so and was more than happy to break the news. She is one of the teachers behind my problems at this school. She is also one of the two teachers that hired me from Canada and made the promise of a WP.

Since I was in Canada, I was honest with school about my lack of qualifications ( which are none). I did not pursue the job. It pursued me. They convinced me that a work permit would be no problem. They flip-flopped when I got here. Saying a number of things including that they were not aware that I had no degree. Which of course they were. We have had many problems since. Not the least of which being my inability to communicate any other way than "straight". They don't seem to like this.

Yesterday was payday, and I had already typed out my resignation to give to them in exchange for my money. The money was late, I received notice of this requirement, later the money came to my home, and then I approached the Sub-director at his home across the street ( he is my girlfriends Uncle), gave him my resignation, and told him that his teachers would have to sort out their little problem themselves. I would not be returning to the school.

I also reminded him that a prosecution of me by the Thai govt would result in the relationship with his niece being impossible, and that there was a stiff consequence for the employer as well.

BTW...the letter of resignation states my reason for leaving as being the schools inability or unwillingness to fulfill the promise and requirment of a work permit.

Question:

Anyone heard of this sort of situation where an individual school was singled out for their Falang, or a blanket "everbody must now report their Falang"?

My perspective on this is that I was not exiting fast enough, and someone is helping me. ie... teacher telephones MOE, is concerned about their Falang, or concerned parent does same....

Can you guys shed some light on this for me? Maybe suggest a possible course of action? Hopefully not, "Get out of the country".

Thank you

Edited November 30, 2007 by Canada

[Somtamnication]

You did not mention if there was a contract involved. I presume that is not the case.

The first mistake you made was do what westerners do, TYPE something, in this case, your resignation.

They always paid you in cash, right? That should have set off alarm bells. Now, with your letter, they can tell immigration that yes, you did work there, that you lied to them (remember, they will try to save face) about your qualifications and that you are one dumb piece of ·/($/. These people will always lie to save face, you just gave them ammo with the letter.

Without that letter in their hands, you could have denied ever working there.

There is nothing they can do to you, you resigned, nothing really to tell the authorities.

Plenty of work in BKK.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, if his resignation proves that he worked there, and the school is going to use that as some sort of ammunition, they will be using it to prove that THEY, the stupid school, had him working illegally, and thus the school broke the law as well.

Do you still have your emails, Canada, to prove that you told them you were unqualified, and emails that they said "No Prolem, you come anyway, we get you work permit"? In Western courts, emails are now evidence that condemns people.

I say just follow through by not working there any more, find another job, and try to forget about it.

Canada, as to your main question, occasionally a school administrator finally "realizes" that you need a work permit, and that he probably can't get one for you. I say "stupid" because at times, the ignorance of Thai school officials regarding employees who are not Thai, is abysmal and unprofessional. They know how to employ and dominate Thai employees, not farang.

[Canada]

I never did corrospond through email. I communicated through my girlfriend. I told them I wanted to corrospond thru email. They insisted on this way. I was very clear several times with my gal about them knowing about my lack of a degree and she always responded that they know and they say it won't be a problem.

There is already plenty of paper trail about my employment. The letter is irrelevant. There is a contract although I can't read it. It is in Thai. Before I signed I had my girl read it and assure me that by signing it, I was not lying. She approved it.

At this point, can I be prosecuted?

[PeaceBlondie]

I wouldn't worry about it. Just get on with your life, without that school.

[TerryLH]

"...the Sub- Director informed me that he was informed that he was now required to send documentation regarding my education and qualifications to the MOE."

Could it be they were trying to get you a work permit and the MOE was simply asking for documents that were not submitted?

"I also reminded him that a prosecution of me by the Thai govt would result in the relationship with his niece being impossible,..."

Why, are you going to blame her for this? I think any 'prosecution' would just be a small fine, but wouldn't expect them to even do that.

"...and that there was a stiff consequence for the employer as well."

Your newness shows.

[mrtoad]

Could it just be the easy way of firing someone? A lot easier to say that you have to leave for official reasons than others.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, and as mentioned there are plenty of other places were you would be able to work with little problem or worries.

[Canada]

Okay...Yeah I'm relatively new, and maybe overly paranoid. As far as making the girl pay....I am thinking of a worst case scenario where I could be deported, which would have a negative impact on our realtionship.

Thanks for the other perspectives. Sometimes I tend to think the worst.

It has crossed my mind that this is the eaiest way out for everyone, and nobody loses face.

OK, I'll move on..thanks.

[mrtoad]

Okay...Yeah I'm relatively new, and maybe overly paranoid. As far as making the girl pay....I am thinking of a worst case scenario where I could be deported, which would have a negative impact on our realtionship.

Thanks for the other perspectives. Sometimes I tend to think the worst.

It has crossed my mind that this is the eaiest way out for everyone, and nobody loses face.

OK, I'll move on..thanks.

Don't worry too much Canada, it's not easy to understand sometimes how school administrators operate. As you said, and as I implied this may well be the option of not losing face that has been used.

In the end, have a look on Ajarn, there are plenty of opportunities available.

Good luck.

[Scott]

Canada, very sorry to hear about your dilemma and hope everything turns out Ok for you. If you can get a visa to stay in the country, you should have no problem finding work, although it will be less than legal.

A lot of schools don't figure out that they can't easily get around the law, until they start dealing with the visa situation, Teacher's License and finally the Work Permit. That's when everything becomes oops!

If they did contact the MOE, then they would ask for the information.

At any rate, let us know how things are going. (What kind of visa do you have by the way?)

[Canada]

I am here on a tourist visa. The last entry of three expires on Christmas Day. I will be going to Vientienne I think. I am planning to go back to Canada for a while but not untill spring or summer. I could use some temporary work till then. I am going to Chiangmai tomorrow to visit some friends for a week, then likely going to go to Bkk to look for some temporary work. I wouldn't want to commit to anything serious at this point as I do plan to go home for a while. If I can't find suitable work, I'll just have to make the best of some time off in Thailand. I can live without working, but I am not yet rich enough to be on a continuous holiday, travelling wherever I want, doing what I want.

I will keep the forum informed about the final outcome of this situation ( which I think will just go away), and where I end up. Thanks for your interest.

[Ijustwannateach]

Canada, this situation is very common in Thailand, unfortunately- and to get up on a soapbox for a minute, it is the reason that stricter and stricter government regulation of LEGAL teachers won't matter two cents, and why undesirable types will continue to find refuge as "teachers" in Thailand.

Frankly, schools are just as happy to find teachers to work illegally as some of the teachers are to have illegal work. It saves a lot of money and hassle on both sides, and if the teacher is caught for it usually only he will suffer. Many of the schools involved are at pains to deny that there is any problem or consequence connected with illegal work. Until the government imposes DRACONIAN penalties on the SCHOOLS who encourage such practices, children will remain at the mercy of unregulated foreigner visitors and well-meaning, possibly even well-qualified would-be teachers will suffer the inconvenience and stigma of working illegally despite their best intentions.

Currently, the only way to deal with the problem is to leave. If the school is playing games with you, it's not their intention to go legal. Leave and find another job. Good luck.

"S"

[snowflake]

I would say that you are a little short tempered here. The MOE will always ask for documentation from your education. Even if you do not have a degree you can get a job in a government school. It is getting more and more difficult yes, but it can be done.

Handing over a letter of resignation is a bit over the top, how long have you worked there? Threatening the boss because he tries to help you by telling you what the MOE told him by telling him that his relationship with his niese will be bad is just plain stupid. (confused myself there). That will only make him angry and from what you told me, he only brought you the news, why kill the news bearer?

Think of what you have done, I know that you are new to Thailand but start thinking 3rd world country.

When you start a new job in a country like this you have to realize that things takes time.

Learn this phrase, JAI YEN, cool hearted. I think that you messed up something good here. There might have been some misunderstanding between you and the administration...

[Canada]

Please don't call me stupid. The possibility of that situation arising could have been ( could be) a reality.

The situation has a history and leaving was the right thing to do. But thanks for your input.

[Rhys]

Hmmmm...Move on....

[alaina]

It seems like the school was unaware of how the laws about employing foreigners are supposed to work, which means that it is almost impossible for them to understand how they actually work. Either that, or they wanted to get rid of you and feigned ignorance to make it seem as though Thai law, not the school was the reason that you eventually had to leave.

What the laws say will happen to schools and what really happens are two different things. Don't bother telling them what the laws say happens to schools because it is almost always the foreigner and not the school that suffers when illegal teachers are found. The schools usually end up with a minimum of bad press and a few phone calls and bribes are made. When there is a high-profile case of a foreign teacher caught in the law (e.g. John Mark Karr) foreigners have ended up jailed, deported and blacklisted (and the regulations get more Byzantine for legal teachers.) These things usually only happen when the officials feel that face has been lost and such a display of power is necessary.

I wouldn't worry too much about what they could do because you can't change how you've left. Unless you are dealing with someone extremely hot-headed, the school probably will not pursue anything. Even if they did, convincing the MOE to go after you would not be easy.

Laws and ethics are very low priorities to most school administrations, face and reputations are what they are most concerned with. If you don't bother them any further and don't harm their reputation, they are likely going to leave you alone. If they were to bring up what happened to the authorities, it would likely embarrass themselves and that is the last thing that they want. As long as you have all the money that you are owed, you have nothing to gain by pursuing them and if you hang a banner on the school that says that they hire illegal teachers, you're putting a big target on yourself.