Uk Government Immigration Review.

[erikr_]

Confused as to how this will effect us?

The tier system is unrelated to the proposed introduction of pre-entry language tests for spouse settlement visa applicants. Jacqui Smith just took the opportunity of announcing the proposal at the same time that she unveiled how the new employment rules will work.

My opinion is that this is a done deal and, after a charade of consultation, the announcement will be made that spouse settlement visa applicants will have to demonstrate their English ability when making such a visa application. Probably April 2008.

Scouse.

This is in place since a few years in the Netherlands and I have to say it is understandable. As long as it is a reasonable level as I hardly can understand half the native uk citizins (and that is just due to how they speak)

[the scouser]

.....I hardly can understand half the native uk citizins (and that is just due to how they speak)

There was a case a few years back which involved a Liverpudlian hoodlum who'd based himself in Amsterdam. The Dutch police were tapping his phone, but despite their impeccable English, they couldn't understand a blind word he said. In the end, they had to employ a group of Merseyside police to "translate".

Scouse.

[StinkyMudFish]

There are plenty of english speaking countries habouring terrorists that will have no problems crossing borders then to get here to blow up a tube station and or mass inflow of EU nationals taking our jobs. I didn't get the impression our economy was under threat from the inflow of thai spouses into UK. The only danger they pose to us is rising mudfish imports and garlic breath....not exactly a threat to national security...

[john b good]

I agree that the ability to speak/understand english would be beneficial in getting around England (or anywhere else that english is the native tongue) but insofar as communication with a Thai wife one should remember that quite a few of us have a passable grasp of "passar Thai"

The main thing is that one can communicate regardless of, in what language they do so

Edited December 6, 2007 by george

[neilmc]

The idea of making applicants sit an english test has been talked about for a lot of years. Now it does look as if they will implement this in the not too distant future.

I feel it is a sensible requirement and as others have stated who would want to marry someone they canot have a conversaation with??

Too many Pakistanis and Africans? Seems also now there are many from the EU who cannot speak English also so I feel this is aimed at them too.

How can people expect to live and/or work in England if they cannot read / write / speak the language?

This doesn't affect anyone from the EU and isn't / can't be aimed at EU citizens - they have the freedom of movement right which allows anyone in a member state to relocate to any other member state regardless of language, etc

And quite right too otherwise most of us English people would not be able to leave England due to our general stubbornness in learning foreign languages !

There are restrictions on the newer Eastern European nations but they are time based and will be completely lifted in a few years. I know a Polish girl who used to work in a bar I drank in who needed to get a work permit just to work in the bar, now she works in a bank and needed a seperate permit for that.

Right now the government are making EU immigrants jump through a few hoops before settling, but none of them are Language based.

[george]

Will these restrictions affect bona fide Thais?

[the scouser]

Will these restrictions affect bona fide Thais?

Every single one. The proposal is that every spouse who wishes to settle in the UK will have to demonstrate an English ability when applying for their visa.

Scouse.

[tracer5050]

I am not from the UK , But i could not spaek Thai before i got married , Now i speak enough to get by in thailand I am getting better at it, My wife speaks english very well. but most of it come from me.

So if someone want to live in English speaking county I dont see why they would not want to speak English.

I want to be in Thailand so I want to speak Thai.

[grtaylor]

I really do not know the reasons and am totally guessing. I am from further north and immigrants never made their way there in great numbers before I left in 1985. We had a couple of South Asian Dr's and one or two shop owners in my town.

There was only one black guy in the whole town too - sone of an American marine and a local girl.

It was and still is a weird town - the land that time forgot.

That wouldn't be Barrow-in-Furness would it?

G

[george]

Will these restrictions affect bona fide Thais?

Every single one. The proposal is that every spouse who wishes to settle in the UK will have to demonstrate an English ability when applying for their visa.

Scouse.

So what you are saying is: It could be hard for Thais now as their general English language skills is bad?

[pjallittle]

Doubt very much this applies to people coming in from the european union though, thats the BIG issue we have right now!

Mark

The article clearly sets forth that this new requirement applies only to those outside of European Union members..........

"manage" immigration from outside the European Union (EU)"

thus the concerns are applicable solely to those outside of the EU.

[the scouser]

So what you are saying is: It could be hard for Thais now as their general English language skills is bad?

We don't know yet at what standard this proposed test will be set, but as a general point, yes, it will be harder on Thais than, let's say, Malaysians in whose country English is more widely spoken.

Scouse.

[dyertribe]

In Australia, there is no requirement to speak English to migrate as a spouse. You must however, be able to speak some English to become a Citizen (you must also have lived in Australia for 2 years as a "Permanent Resident"). We also have a newly introduced test on Australian knowlege and "Values" ... the verdict is still out on the value of this test.

My wife has taught herself English and can converse well with English speaking family and friends ... she still turns back to her English-Thai dictionary from time to time.

Cheers

[endure]

Will these restrictions affect bona fide Thais?

Every single one. The proposal is that every spouse who wishes to settle in the UK will have to demonstrate an English ability when applying for their visa.

Scouse.

I think it's pretty outrageous that people are expected to be able to speak English well enough to pass some sort of exam before they arrive in the UK. Speaking English to pass a citizenship test is a different matter.

[david96]

Have the proposed changes to legislation been debated in Parliament? It appears to be only at a draft copy stage available for public comment.

Did any UK politician stand up in parliament and state"We will decide who comes to our country" In Australia we did and his name was John Winston Howard.

[the scouser]

Have the proposed changes to legislation been debated in Parliament? It appears to be only at a draft copy stage available for public comment.

Did any UK politician stand up in parliament and state"We will decide who comes to our country" In Australia we did and his name was John Winston Howard.

The Immigration Act 1971 is an enabling Act, so any changes to the Immigration Rules do not need Parliament's consent.

You're right that at this stage it is just a proposal, but it's odds on to come to pass.

Scouse.

[dee123]

hi all, just a couple of points....my thai wife has been here 10 years wev'e been married 15 but she doesn't speak English at all well, I and others have tried,she has even attended night classes ,(until teacher resigned with "stress") I only speak basic Thai but we get along fine.(love conquers everything).........one her employers even thought she might be dyslexic but I have tried to find out info for dyslexic spouses and there is none!................anyway Thais are so similar to us brits with a really wacky sense of humour and sexual freedom unlike other groups they seem to live harmoniously in U.K........

[NordicMan]

I would find it surprising if the British government would provide a monopoly license to run accredited English language courses in every country on the planet to one specific company (crony of the government)

However, the points system in Australia is not used for spouse visa, rather for potential migrants who apply on their own behalf, on the basis of their potential contribution to Australia.

I may miss the point competely here, but wouldn't this system, if enacted in the UK, be mostly relevant for foreigners who would currently apply for work permit or HSMP? If find the Australian system to be fair, transparent, and in support of the needs of their country.

Is it expected that this points system, if enacted in UK, would be applicable to migrants seeking spouse-visas?

However, if we look at the Australia system, it is fully possible (though difficult) to apply for a work permit if one just wants to work there temporarily. The points system is for migrants seeking permanent residence.

As for speaking English before they arrive here... It could be argued that it is justifiable for migrants coming on their own, but I'm not sure that it is a fair requirement for spouses of British citizens.

rgds

NM

[the scouser]

I would find it surprising if the British government would provide a monopoly license to run accredited English language courses in every country on the planet to one specific company (crony of the government)

Why not? They've done just that in relation to all of the visa application centres.

Scouse.

[nikster]

The idea of making applicants sit an english test has been talked about for a lot of years. Now it does look as if they will implement this in the not too distant future.

I feel it is a sensible requirement and as others have stated who would want to marry someone they canot have a conversaation with??

I find this is a rather insulting assumption. I get sick by the thought of having a government decide why I could or could not fall in love with someone. It's not the government's business. There are well established checks for fake marriages - at least in the U.S. - and they are sufficient.

One possibility is a fluent Thai speaker, as has been pointed out above. Other possibility - maybe both speak a language that's not English.

The right to choose a spouse freely is one of the basic human rights covered in the human rights charter, art. 16: Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family

How can people expect to live and/or work in England if they cannot read / write / speak the language?

There is no faster way to learn a language than to move to a country where it's spoken. Why don't you leave it up to those people. I think a point system / language test is fair for anyone wanting to immigrate for work reasons, but for people immigrating for family reasons, it's a shame and a disgrace.

I think this would violate EU law, specifically the right to settle and work anywhere in the EU for all EU citizens. This right includes a right for an accompanying spouse to also settle and work anywhere in the EU.

That is, weirdly, the British government could introduce this rule for UK citizens, but not for EU citizens from other countries.

Edited December 6, 2007 by nikster

[the scouser]

I may miss the point competely here, but wouldn't this system, if enacted in the UK, be mostly relevant for foreigners who would currently apply for work permit or HSMP? If find the Australian system to be fair, transparent, and in support of the needs of their country.

Is it expected that this points system, if enacted in UK, would be applicable to migrants seeking spouse-visas?

These are two separate proposals: the points system for employment and the pre-entry English language test for spouses/civil partners/unmarried partners who wish to settle.

Scouse.

[kenio]

Imagine if British men had to learn Thai before moving to Thailand, there wouldnt be any here!

Very true, long time ago I was with an Cuban mulata she couldn´t a word english, but I learned spanish, we had a great time, and after we came to my country (sweden) she learned swedish. It´s always the rich against the poor people. Can you imagine Thai government force us to learn thai to stay in Thailand, I think not. Don´t say its moore easy for them to learn english than, for us to learn thai. We are often more educated and used to learn than the thaipeople, I say often, not always. But ofcourse if you live in a country like England, you must learn the language, but that is something else. Hope you understand my "schoolenglish"

[the scouser]

Hope you understand my "schoolenglish"

If you weren't a citizen of an EU country, I'm sure you'd pass this new English test.

Scouse.

[s.pylos]

Doubt very much this applies to people coming in from the european union though, thats the BIG issue we have right now!

Mark

Indeed it can't and does not apply to EU members... It is just Brown's latest gimmick.. completely useless, considering that what Britain currently need and uses is unskilled workers...

[sandy]

[grandma2jaret]

I think that the government will not only require an English test. It will go on a points system whereby non-skilled people will not get any points. They say there are no plans to give non-skilled people any points and so allow them entry.

The aim is to stop those who haven't got skills we need here from coming here. I think this is a far more serious obstacle than the English language test.

My sons are married to two Thai sisters. One has a better standard of English but she has been here longer. The younger one, her English is improving every day. Thing is though...although both girls are well educated, they would not have the skills to give them points to come to the UK after these new laws come into effect. They had good jobs in Bangkok, but not ones they can do here.

I am sure that the English test will be quite basic...I do not think this is the major issue. It is the skill level of the applicant.

Both my daughters-in-law are happy here. You all know the ridiculous Visa applications we had to go through and the dreaded BKK Embassy endurance tests!!

The government wants to be seen to be getting a grip of immigration. They can't touch the Europeans coming in...which is where most of our problems lie. So, in order to tick some boxes, they choose the easiest route...those who legitimately apply for very expensive Visas, do everything right and are in a minority of migrants into the UK.

I now have the pleasure of knowing many Thai people here...and in the new rules, hardly any of them would be able to prove they had the skills necesary to come to the UK now. Yet, they work, pay taxes and don't cost anybody anything, and are thoroughly nice people, better than most of the English I know.

The government cannot stop the Europeans and 'Assylum Seekers' who come here, claim benefits and cost us a fortune...so they are doing this so they can say they are doing something.

It's pathetic...but harmful. I fear it will stop many many people from getting Fiancee Visas etc after this law is applied...and it will be applied quite soon I think.

[Jaray]

Doubt very much this applies to people coming in from the european union though, thats the BIG issue we have right now!

Mark

And what about the rights of a Brit to marry the lady of his choice and live here with her?

It was with this in mind that I asked my local MP whether I, as a British Citizen or European Community member, had the right to bring my wife into the UK to live with me.

The answer was a resounding...."Actually NO!"

I was told that I only have the right IF my wife passes the British Government's criteria for entry.

Doesn't it make you feel good knowing that the UK Government has the best interests of it's people at heart

Jaray

[the scouser]

The government wants to be seen to be getting a grip of immigration. They can't touch the Europeans coming in..... So, in order to tick some boxes, they choose the easiest route...

Very true.

Scouse.

[s.pylos]

Britain tightens immigration requirements

LONDON: -- The British government Wednesday outlined details of a points-based system to "manage" immigration from outside the European Union (EU) under which unskilled workers would have little chance of entering Britain and spouses would have to pass an English language test.

...

--DPA 2007-12-05

If the Brits had to sit the citizenship test, a large majority would be deported.. god knows where... Australia???

[sandy]

[Mujjiman]

The UK Government are really funny, so now if people can speak English then they can come in so a Phillipino will get more points than a Thai.

The intellect of some of the advisors us unreal, the thing is in the last 5 years they have sepnt million of pounds on 21 langauge translation teams in London....

England is going to pot......

If we cant buy land in Los why do we let people from Los buy lamd here ?

[oevna]

I think being able to speak/understand english isnt an unreasonable rquirement - after all seems a bit odd that someone would marry a thai and not be able to have any meaningfull conversation with them.

Some English people can speak Thai, and so would be able to have a meaningful relationship with a Thai person who can not speak English.

I don't think this law is intended to call into question the sincerity of relationships between Thais and non-Thais. On the surface, it appears to be designed to make sure that immigrants are able to function properly in their new country of residence. But it could also be used as an artificial barrier to immigration, for whatever reasons.