Uk Government Immigration Review.

[easyride]

Doubt very much this applies to people coming in from the european union though, thats the BIG issue we have right now!

Mark

It doesn't apply to the EEC because Europe has treaties which allow a citizen of the EU to work and live in any EU country they choose, mainting the priviledges and benefits of the country they choose to live. Why you say its a big issue is beyond me. Without foriegn workers the UK would be a sad place to be.

[PPCC]

I think being able to speak/understand english isnt an unreasonable rquirement - after all seems a bit odd that someone would marry a thai and not be able to have any meaningfull conversation with them.

That's right and I think they have been carefully thought before announcing. It's reasonable. I wouldn't marry to someone I can't or able to have convo with.

Errm. Can you even speak English?

"I think they have been carefully thought before announcing"?

"I can't or able to have a convo with."?

I'm fairly sure you wouldn't pass the most rudimentary of English tests with that sort of grammar!

[PPCC]

Doubt very much this applies to people coming in from the european union though, thats the BIG issue we have right now!

Mark

It doesn't apply to the EEC because Europe has treaties which allow a citizen of the EU to work and live in any EU country they choose, mainting the priviledges and benefits of the country they choose to live. Why you say its a big issue is beyond me. Without foriegn workers the UK would be a sad place to be.

It's a sad place to be with foreign workers too.

[mrbojangles]

In my home town of Dewsbury. Children are starting school unable to speak English at an acceptable level. You see young adults at hospitals with their elderly relatives having to translate. All this because despite years spent living in the country, they can't or won't try to learn the language of their adopted country. These people are all from the India sub continent.

Racist claptrap - mods! Do your job!

Sorry Wilko, you're wrong. I was fortunate enough to go to Hospital a couple of months ago and that is exactly the same as i saw. And believe me, i am not racist.

For example English is far more engrained and widely spoken in Malaysia than it is Thailand, a consequence of which is that an average Joe Malaysian is far more likely to speak passable English than a Thai.

That would have been true 15 years ago, but the Malaysian government's policy to promote the local

language has wiped out the advantage.

They are ruing the day and trying to improve English skills across the board.

Speaking Thai IS a requirement if you want PR in Thailand!!

What language the husband and wife speak in the house or bed is irrelevant.

Rubbish - standards of English in Malaysia are far higher than in Thailand.

Thailand lags behind almost every S.E. Asian Country

This is a thread that is fast gathering a lot of crap...a load of assertions that are based on nothing more than racial prejudice

Jeezus, from those posts how on earth can you suggest racial prejudice.

[plasticpig]

name='wilko' date='2007-12-07 08:30:34' post='1692204']

Does that mean we'll have to chuck the Welsh out of Britain?

A lot of british sheep would feel safer at night, I think.

[eldimoni]

Well i for one find learnt to speak Thai so i could communicate with the local people rather than be lazy like most westerners are and expect the locals to speak english. Sorry but thats just a fact.

Im now married for almost two years and have a son. Im planning to bring my wife over in the next 3 months and her english is ok but not great. If immigration were to deny them access i would have extremely good grounds for a infringements of Human rights complaint.

I also work for the home office and you bet your bottom dollar i would kick up one hel_l of a fuss.

[gbswales]

Doubt very much this applies to people coming in from the european union though, thats the BIG issue we have right now!

Mark

As Scouse says, it doesn't and their migration here is but one of the big issues at the mo. I think the Govt. simply does not understand the concerns Joe Publlic has about (mainly illegal?) immigration at the moment, including from europe.

As for Thais coming here under the current rules, I agree it odd if they don't speak any English, but how many does that apply to? My wife gets around very well, works in a shop, socialises perfectly well with my (non-Thai) friends, reads, writes and speaks English - but to GCSE level 3? Not sure about that?

And what about the rights of a Brit to marry the lady of his choice and live here with her?

Contoversial I know, but I would now like to see restrictions on 2nd/3rd generation arranged marriages from the sub continent. Why is that still needed now? Apart from getting more people here from the migrants village/extended family, but thats a different story.

I didnt realize it was to GCSE level 3 - surely that would mean the deportation of 50% of school leavers.

The problem with this idea is, as you rightly say, the standards they will use - arguably they could control immigration simply by moving the standard ever higher. The test should be on the ability to communicate normally NOT to be good at academic English. My partner thank god is already here but will have to take a test in English of citizenship in just under two years time - not to obtain citizenship but just to get indefinite leave to remain! I have looked at this test and despite being educated to degree level, I could not answer it, and neither could many of my friends, without studying and learning the multiple choice questions by rote. Some of the the things that they ask about are so remote that I doubt the average A level student could answer them. The test also implies that people should have an understanding of how government works - I am not sure that knowing the number of MEPs or members of the Welsh Assembly really constitutes understanding government. I do believe in some form of testing BUT the test should be about everyday things like understanding money, basic important laws and the things that people need to know to live here. The english test should be about speaking and comprehending - the ability to make yourself understood and to understand others - "Mr john he go shop" and "me not good pain in tummy" may not be "proper" english but are clear enough for the meaning to be understood. My partner does not have perfect english and could certainly not as yet pass GCSE standard nor probably ESOL 2-3 but that does not prevent us having long debates about things we see on the news, or feelings or any number of topics.

The problem is that most people look on very cynically at an older man with a young thai partner and assume that the motivation is always an economic one - this simply isnt true in many cases. Many Thai people are much more comfortable with an older partner - certainly if my partner is motivated by money then he knew a long time ago that he had picked the wrong partner! I know many Thai partnerships in the UK which have endured the test of time. It is unfortunate that the "find a thai bride" agencies and websites give the notion a bad name but in reality I would guess that most of us found our partners by getting of our backsides and going out to meet people and usually will have spent a lot of time (two years in my case) getting to know someone before taking more serious steps

The reality is that no one here really complains about Thai's coming here or other people from the far east - the big argument as many have said is about hoards of eastern europeans with little english coming here as economic migrants without the the support of a partner - the governement knows that it cant do anything to stop this because of EEC rules consequently they are making a show of clamping down by hitting out at vulnerable people who have perfectly genuine reasons for wanting to be here - at the same time bleeding dry the UK partner in an attempt to make sure that only the very rich can afford to marry the partner of their choice. It is unfair, arbitrary and frankly immoral but more than this, as an attempt to appease the anti immigration lobby it is pathetic. With these controls being introduced by a Labour government and the Tories baying for even more "blood" , I see nothing but bleak times ahead.

[Kilgore Trout]

The UK governement has today unveiled it's new Australian-style points system for those wishing to migrate to the UK for work purposes. They have also announced a consultation process to discuss the merits of requiring spouses who wish to settle in the UK to be able to speak English before even travelling to the UK.

A separate consultation, also published today seeks views on the introduction of an English language test before entry for people applying for a spouse visa to help to encourage successful integration.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the government is consulting on this, the likelihood is it will come to pass. If so, expect some crony of the government to be given the contract to run recognised English language courses abroad, and also expect a marked downturn in the number of Thai spouse settlement visa applications.

Full Home Office press release.

Scouse.

I think being able to speak/understand english isnt an unreasonable rquirement - after all seems a bit odd that someone would marry a thai and not be able to have any meaningfull conversation with them.

I suppose it never crossed your mind that some non-Thais actually do speak Thai

[wilko]

In my home town of Dewsbury. Children are starting school unable to speak English at an acceptable level. You see young adults at hospitals with their elderly relatives having to translate. All this because despite years spent living in the country, they can't or won't try to learn the language of their adopted country. These people are all from the India sub continent.

Racist claptrap - mods! Do your job!

Sorry Wilko, you're wrong. I was fortunate enough to go to Hospital a couple of months ago and that is exactly the same as i saw. And believe me, i am not racist.

For example English is far more engrained and widely spoken in Malaysia than it is Thailand, a consequence of which is that an average Joe Malaysian is far more likely to speak passable English than a Thai.

That would have been true 15 years ago, but the Malaysian government's policy to promote the local

language has wiped out the advantage.

They are ruing the day and trying to improve English skills across the board.

Speaking Thai IS a requirement if you want PR in Thailand!!

What language the husband and wife speak in the house or bed is irrelevant.

Rubbish - standards of English in Malaysia are far higher than in Thailand.

Thailand lags behind almost every S.E. Asian Country

This is a thread that is fast gathering a lot of crap...a load of assertions that are based on nothing more than racial prejudice

Jeezus, from those posts how on earth can you suggest racial prejudice.

the saddest thing about racists is they simply don't realise they are......how can anyone make a judgment by looking round a waiting room in a hospital...there are 70 million people in UK and that is a sample of what a hundred or so.

It is trgic that people look around and make up stats based on colour...most of the people you are looking at are Britishb citizens and so don'y need a language test......

[Nickel]

My initial instinct is that such a move would discriminate against those nationalities which are either not indigenous speakers of English or do not have a colonial background. For example English is far more engrained and widely spoken in Malaysia than it is Thailand, a consequence of which is that an average Joe Malaysian is far more likely to speak passable English than a Thai.

It should be a level playing field for all, yet it won't be because of various historical factors.

Scouse.

Ninety five per cent of us marry bar girls (that's a fact) and most can speak a reasonable amount of English. I'd say that puts them in a good position. Mai pen rai, no problem. If they have to read and write English . . . that's another story!

[Kilgore Trout]

Well i for one find learnt to speak Thai so i could communicate with the local people rather than be lazy like most westerners are and expect the locals to speak english. Sorry but thats just a fact.

Im now married for almost two years and have a son. Im planning to bring my wife over in the next 3 months and her english is ok but not great. If immigration were to deny them access i would have extremely good grounds for a infringements of Human rights complaint.

I also work for the home office and you bet your bottom dollar i would kick up one hel_l of a fuss.

Finally someone with some sense; I find it highly odd that so many people would refuse entry of a countryman's spouse into their country because they can't speak English while most of you have been here in someone else's country for years and can't do more than badly pronounce the words for "one more beer" or "fried rice please."

[Kilgore Trout]

Ninety five per cent of us marry bar girls

If thats true then 95 percent of you are idiots.

[oldgit]

I guess it will never end . I am from thre US and the my friends in the UK say I dont speak English , Does that mean i cant live in the UK. American is kind of English ? LOL

And they are right, you, we speak American, I've been ther some time ago and couldn't understand half of them as well! Nice place though.( example: getting "pissed" Engand= having a good time at the pub. American= having a good time at the bar with their fists.

Sorry, but I have just had this vision of our friends from overseas being tested by someone who's 'English' is a combination of Buffy the Vampire Slayer,Lindsey Lohan and P.Daddy(oh, mustn't forget Neighbours).Should settle in nicely.

[plasticpig]

Ninety five per cent of us marry bar girls

If thats true then 95 percent of you are idiots.

Thats not nice.

Now bend over.

[mrbojangles]

In my home town of Dewsbury. Children are starting school unable to speak English at an acceptable level. You see young adults at hospitals with their elderly relatives having to translate. All this because despite years spent living in the country, they can't or won't try to learn the language of their adopted country. These people are all from the India sub continent.

Racist claptrap - mods! Do your job!

Sorry Wilko, you're wrong. I was fortunate enough to go to Hospital a couple of months ago and that is exactly the same as i saw. And believe me, i am not racist.

For example English is far more engrained and widely spoken in Malaysia than it is Thailand, a consequence of which is that an average Joe Malaysian is far more likely to speak passable English than a Thai.

That would have been true 15 years ago, but the Malaysian government's policy to promote the local

language has wiped out the advantage.

They are ruing the day and trying to improve English skills across the board.

Speaking Thai IS a requirement if you want PR in Thailand!!

What language the husband and wife speak in the house or bed is irrelevant.

Rubbish - standards of English in Malaysia are far higher than in Thailand.

Thailand lags behind almost every S.E. Asian Country

This is a thread that is fast gathering a lot of crap...a load of assertions that are based on nothing more than racial prejudice

Jeezus, from those posts how on earth can you suggest racial prejudice.

the saddest thing about racists is they simply don't realise they are......how can anyone make a judgment by looking round a waiting room in a hospital...there are 70 million people in UK and that is a sample of what a hundred or so.

It is trgic that people look around and make up stats based on colour...most of the people you are looking at are Britishb citizens and so don'y need a language test......

Give over with the "racist" card will you. Can people not have a debate without someone spouting "racist". The government are the one's reviewing the situation, are you going to call them racists as well.

All Mosha said was from what he had seen at schools and at a Hospital. And unfortunately, i have to concur with the same observation. There was a Bangladeshi woman on the news this morning. 20 years living in the UK and couldn't speak a word except hello. Although i don't agree with her as she could have got off her backside and learnt, even she was saying that the system has let her down because every time she goes to the Hospital or wherever, a translator is provided, thus (her words) depriving her of the chance to learn !!!

[Roger_royal]

My Thai girlfriend and I have known each other for 4 years now, and during that time she has worked very hard teaching herself to speak English.We can converse very well but in the company of friends and family she does not have the self confidence in her abillity and tends to keep silent rather than join in and maybe make mistakes in her English. I know of several Thai's that can speak English and make themselves understood quite well, and understand what is being said to them but you ask them to read something in English and they are struggling. My point is that if this new testing becomes law, if it is a written test a lot of otherwise capable English speakers will fail because they have difficulty with the written word.

We were hoping to get married sometime next year and for her to come to UK and settle with me here, if this is brought into being then I don't know what we will do.

[luckyluke]

......................... not learn French when I lived in Belgium -

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

not even Flemisch?

[ade100]

The UK governement has today unveiled it's new Australian-style points system for those wishing to migrate to the UK for work purposes. They have also announced a consultation process to discuss the merits of requiring spouses who wish to settle in the UK to be able to speak English before even travelling to the UK.

A separate consultation, also published today seeks views on the introduction of an English language test before entry for people applying for a spouse visa to help to encourage successful integration.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the government is consulting on this, the likelihood is it will come to pass. If so, expect some crony of the government to be given the contract to run recognised English language courses abroad, and also expect a marked downturn in the number of Thai spouse settlement visa applications.

Full Home Office press release.

Scouse.

I think being able to speak/understand english isnt an unreasonable rquirement - after all seems a bit odd that someone would marry a thai and not be able to have any meaningfull conversation with them.

Agreed but let us not rule out the possibility of a British person learning the another language and so being able to communicat in that one. Unlikely, maybe, but it does happen :-)

[Mr_Pedantic]

This whole post seems to be scare mongering as usual. I don't see anything unreasonable in the posted Visa rules if someone can't be bothered to make an effort to read and write English after 2 years of living in the UK it's up to them, they won't get citizenship until you can. At least they don't have to keep a ridiculous amount of money in the bank to stay in the country.

[mrbojangles]

This whole post seems to be scare mongering as usual. I don't see anything unreasonable in the posted Visa rules if someone can't be bothered to make an effort to read and write English after 2 years of living in the UK it's up to them, they won't get citizenship until you can. At least they don't have to keep a ridiculous amount of money in the bank to stay in the country.

Jees, haven't you read the thread.

This isn't about people living in the UK for 2 years and getting Citizenship. This thread is about the Government looking at proposals, so that people who are applying for a visa BEFORE they come to the UK, have to gain a certain level of English.

Edit:- Read this post first http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1689723

Edited December 7, 2007 by mrbojangles

[JimsKnight]

Agreed.

The golden age of immigration into the UK is over, welcome to the real world of how immigration is with most other civilised countries.

It's for the greater good and was about fifteen years overdue anyway.

Thailand's been tightening it's belt for the past three to five years anyway yet when they tighten immigration rules everyone's up in arms as if they've been denied their holy right of passage to the promised lands!

Yet when the UK shows some much needed wisdom on an overcrowded island all you other whiners are crying into your beer about how Thailands going to retaliate with tougher immigration laws!

Get a grip you lot and adapt to the changes, whinging on TV isn't going to change a single thing.

It's going to get a whole lot more tighter coming in to the UK. This is likely just the beginning.

Thailands unlikely to suddenly raise the bar again on immigration just because the UK is taking care of itself (for a change). If it does then we all know what to do and thats either roll with the punches or ride for the border

Edited December 7, 2007 by JimsKnight

[Bruce1]

This is all just racist crap designed to curry favor with the ignorant thickheads who think their jobs are being pinched by furreiners. The Australian system was a joke introduced by John Howard to win votes. Language ability reveals absoloutely nothing about the ability to become a good citizen. Motivated people will learn the language and unmotivated people won't. Plenty of migrants to Australia couldn't speak a word of English but went on to be good citizens and have fine children. I'm surprised the British would be stupid enough to copy the Aussie example. Wake up people - you're being manipulated to win votes.

[bkk_mike]

Without wanting to sound nasty, and smug having a highly skilled and qualified Thai wife with a UK-gained MA in English about to apply for a spouse visa, is it not fairly reasonable that those wishing to live in the UK permenantly should know the odd word or two of English? On the other hand do we really need yet another hoop to jump through?

The real issue is what will the test be?

If it can be a spoken test, my wife will pass.

If it's a written test, my wife would fail, without taking a lot of lessons.

I have no problems having a conversation with my wife - and other than once getting on the wrong train at Waterloo, she's never had problems getting around on her own when we're in the UK.

[marshbags]

Imagine if British men had to learn Thai before moving to Thailand, there wouldnt be any here!

Imagine Thailand or any other such like countries offering a welfare state for one and all as we do in the U.K., along with free housing, health care, weekly pay cheques from the DHSS ect .ect.

By the way although Eastern Europe is flooding the U.K / England with immigrations, they are allowed under EU regulations and we in v/ versa are allowed to do like wise within the EU, IF we so wish to do so.

While i and other members of my family and community are pissed off with the consequence of families / locally raised and other genuine born and bread UK citizens being laid off to allow the above to take our jobs on cheaper hiring rates with the outcome of everyone being exploited.

I approve of any legislation that enables those wishing to live in our country, respectingour culture and abiding by our rules.

It,s more the pity such changes weren,t made many years ago, and that,s a fact.

I cannot help but wonder if certain posters have a bias on this due to personal circumstances that i will not go into , nor will i mention specific posters out of respect for Admin and Forum rules.

Perhaps if the majority of expats living here ( bringing their income in from their place of abode,) due to family commitments were to be equal in monetary terms from the Thai welfare state and free health ect. , then it would be fairer to compare Thailand and U.K. scenarios.

How sad that even the poorer Thais are not afforded them due to Puyai, their selfish self interests and Bias ect. ect. ect.

The new regs will NOT effect genuine cases from a language point of view and well we know it.

As for Thailand, seemingly money is the main criterion and the language is way down the list.

IMH and HO as always.

marshbags

Edited December 7, 2007 by marshbags

[peter48]

My Thai girlfriend and I have known each other for 4 years now, and during that time she has worked very hard teaching herself to speak English.We can converse very well but in the company of friends and family she does not have the self confidence in her abillity and tends to keep silent rather than join in and maybe make mistakes in her English. I know of several Thai's that can speak English and make themselves understood quite well, and understand what is being said to them but you ask them to read something in English and they are struggling. My point is that if this new testing becomes law, if it is a written test a lot of otherwise capable English speakers will fail because they have difficulty with the written word.

We were hoping to get married sometime next year and for her to come to UK and settle with me here, if this is brought into being then I don't know what we will do.

Do not wait- if everything is above board and you have evidence of a 4 year relationship and she want's to come not just for the money/honey and she knows what's she's coming to - cold days, dark nights, less approachable people etc., - and you really TRUST her character; then get to BKK and get your Visa applications etc., sorted- however any doubts do not get legally married - cohabit in LOS or GB - there is a lot of problems with mixed marriages not all - having kids, familes, friends will help - build up a network so she is not isolated if she comes etc., GOOD LUCK

[duceahearts]

I'm no lawer but I feel the governement will have to be very careful if they introduce a language test to not fall foul of article 8 of the human rights act which is in place to protect and provide the individuals right to privacy and family life.

Maybe somebody out there with Human rights law could enlighten us further??

[the scouser]

I'm no lawer but I feel the governement will have to be very careful if they introduce a language test to not fall foul of article 8 of the human rights act which is in place to protect and provide the individuals right to privacy and family life.

Maybe somebody out there with Human rights law could enlighten us further??

Article 8 of the HRA 1998 is a qualified, rather than absolute, right. This allows the government to interfere in the individual's private and family life, but only to the extent that it is in the wider interests of the state. However, such interference has to be proportionate. The question is whether this proposal is so.

Scouse.

[marshall]

Have you never thught that maybe the husband is a fluent thai speaker?

When we lived in the Uk my thai wife went ballistic when we visited the local council offices, She has a good command of english yet could not read so many notices posted in Hindu Bengali and Urdu!

The Immigration problem in the UK is not caused by Thai wives . Too many pakistanis and africans.

Making things difficult for the Thai is a joke when arranged marriages from Pakistan are a dialy occurence.

Thank God we left that shit hole and now live here where the people still have working brains.

I agree - infact i had to go to an appeal tribunal in Leeds in 1995 to obtain a visa for my wife. The judge was discusted at the treatment my wife had received from the Britsh embassy in BKK. The lawyer representing the home office actually told me that the rules were inplace to slow down the indians and pakistanis, but they were not effective as once a perspective wife is knocked up then the child has automatic entry as a british citizen, and the Geneva Convention states that a mother should have same advantage as the child.

what about us guys who are not married and have kids. my girlfriend can speak some english i can speak some thai we can communicate with each other very well. so if she doesnt pass the uk goverments criteria we cant go home with my gf and baby. quite sad eh but hey so is the british goverment.

[duceahearts]

I'm no lawer but I feel the governement will have to be very careful if they introduce a language test to not fall foul of article 8 of the human rights act which is in place to protect and provide the individuals right to privacy and family life.

Maybe somebody out there with Human rights law could enlighten us further??

Article 8 of the HRA 1998 is a qualified, rather than absolute, right. This allows the government to interfere in the individual's private and family life, but only to the extent that it is in the wider interests of the state. However, such interference has to be proportionate. The question is whether this proposal is so.

Scouse.

OK, I understand that, but I can not see how the government could claim that reducing the inflow of non-english speaking spouses from outside the EU would be in the national interest, where as allowing un-checked the flow of all non-english speakers from with in the EU is OK.

As others before have said it's a knee jerk reaction that is completely off target.

Time will tell.

Dah

[nocturnal]

perhaps if after they learn to speak English it would be good to teach them to talk about something intresting.Last week my friend who is half Thai ,half Chinese told me her family came here a long time ago (50 years).I asked was it because of the trouble with Chairman Mao.She replied "i don't know,my mum makes the food"

oh to have a good talk with a Thai girl.