Working From Home

[ade100]

I am based in Singapore and work for a Singapore company. I have a Singapore Work Permit and pay my taxes in Singapore. However my company are happy with me working from home one or two days per week. If I were to do my work from home from my second home in Phuket, would I need a Thai work permit?

I am sure if I tried to apply for a Thai Work Permit they would want to know about my Thai employer, but obviously I don’t have one.

Some other things I am thinking of doing from my second home on Phuket: - 1. Some online training with a training provider based in the US, 2.Working on my novel (which I don’t yet have a publisher for).

I imagine I don’t need a work permit for these things but just don’t want to risk having to write my novel from a Thai jail.

Any advice most welcome. Thanks.

[zorro1]

shhh its well known that immigration trawl this sight looking for confessions and will track you down via ISP. Seriously you have already answered your own questions, anyway what sort of novel is it?

[LivinLOS]

Yes you need a work permit.

No you cant get one (without forming your own thai corp etc).

Welcome to kafka country !

[Prakanong]

Yes you need a work permit.

No you cant get one (without forming your own thai corp etc).

Welcome to kafka country !

Yup

Unless the Singapore company had a Thai office - but then he would have to earn a portion of his salary in Thailand and pay tax on it would he not?

I would say balls to that given the different tax rates ;-)

One of the reasons I never pushed forward with the option to relocate my position from Singapore to BKK - I will take the cash thank you and spend it where I like.

[Naam]

i have a feeling that soon somebody will tell me that i need a work permit because once in a while i instruct my bank to sell asset_X and/or buy asset_Y.

[Prakanong]

i have a feeling that soon somebody will tell me that i need a work permit because once in a while i instruct my bank to sell asset_X and/or buy asset_Y.

That is not working though really

There might be a greay area if someone is actively trading each day - maybe a test case in Thai law bwhaaaa

What the OP wants to do though is work but due to the inflexibility of the Thai system he will probably have to technically work ilegaly.

Girlx does the same but is in de nile!

[Crossy]

As everyone is well aware, the Thai immigration/labour system does not have an adequate solution for people like this

Setting up a company to get the WP is in most cases excessively expensive for the value of the work done, the alternative is to work illegally.

To be honest, if you're not using an office and not bragging about what you're doing in the pub then the chances of being caught are pretty well zero.

Unless someone shops you, how will immigration/labour know where to come to catch you red-handed (as they must do in order to prosecute).

[hansnl]

As everyone is well aware, the Thai immigration/labour system does not have an adequate solution for people like this

Setting up a company to get the WP is in most cases excessively expensive for the value of the work done, the alternative is to work illegally.

To be honest, if you're not using an office and not bragging about what you're doing in the pub then the chances of being caught are pretty well zero.

Unless someone shops you, how will immigration/labour know where to come to catch you red-handed (as they must do in order to prosecute).

OOPS!

[Crossy]

As everyone is well aware, the Thai immigration/labour system does not have an adequate solution for people like this

Setting up a company to get the WP is in most cases excessively expensive for the value of the work done, the alternative is to work illegally.

To be honest, if you're not using an office and not bragging about what you're doing in the pub then the chances of being caught are pretty well zero.

Unless someone shops you, how will immigration/labour know where to come to catch you red-handed (as they must do in order to prosecute).

OOPS!

Not sure how this qualifies for an 'oops' and unless you have a better solution......

There are many doing this (not me BTW I have a real WP), whilst it is certainly not legal (or it's at least marginal) it has been suggested by immigration themselves, unofficially of course.

I've yet to hear of anyone getting caught 'working' remotely, but as soon as you step outside your home and start doing site visits etc you're entering a whole new, much more public arena wherein lies a world of hurt and people have been caught and deported

EDIT Obviously, the correct way to do it is to set up a company with all it's complexities and expenses. If only immigration/labour could come up with a vehicle to allow this MO then we would all be happy, unfortunately they can't even come up with a visa solution for those of independent means aged under 50

[MysteryX]

That's something I was wondering as well.

Working free-lance in an office, I understand you *need* a work Visa, of course. Working free-lance in your home country, everything is fine. Telling you bank to guy/sell stocks once in a while from Thailand can't really be considered working. Checking business emails from Thailand, I can't see how you could consider it working. Nobody can prevent you from fixing serious business details during your vacations in Thailand. Remotely working part-time from your home in Thailand while not being involved in Thai business, is that considered working?

I understand that the official answer is yes, but without any clear line between what is working and what isn't, it's not a valable answer. I can understand the unofficial advice from some officials to do your own things and just not brag about it.

[ericB]

the very official position is simple : as soon as you are doing something you are working.

you change a light, you are working. You browse internet by professional interrest (forex rates , stock values) you are working.

Obviously, working remote is illegal.

But, and that is a big but, the immigration police will not do anything unless you take an hight profile. It's not tolerate, but the Police have more important to do. Simply that.

Obviously my words are not official, but I speak by experience.

[TCA]

If the OP used a company to purchase his home in Phuket, would this be an avenue for getting a work permit?

[kupsu]

Do really nobody knows how it is?

I have been told from Thai embassy(Finland) that If you work remotely and you don't have nothing (business) to do in Thailand it's legall.

Same way they said in Immigration in Samui (1 year ago).

So do somebody check this out?

[ade100]

If the OP used a company to purchase his home in Phuket, would this be an avenue for getting a work permit?

Yep the OP has not purchased his home yet but is looking into setting up a company to do just that. Could be a possible solution.

[zorro1]

How about this scenario. You are on holidays here for 1 month and you decide to test the market with whatever your Biz product is back home. eg I approach motor car dealers here and ask if they would be interested in a proven training programme to bolster their sales. They have a look and agree it could work but NOTHING has been exchanged and no contracts signed. You then head off home to have a think about it. Is this considered working? surely you would not require a work permit just to test the market?

[Naam]

the very official position is simple : as soon as you are doing something you are working.

get real man! you mean i need a work permit to have sex with my wife? and she needs a work permit if she refills my cup with coffee during breakfast?

[Prakanong]

How about this scenario. You are on holidays here for 1 month and you decide to test the market with whatever your Biz product is back home. eg I approach motor car dealers here and ask if they would be interested in a proven training programme to bolster their sales. They have a look and agree it could work but NOTHING has been exchanged and no contracts signed. You then head off home to have a think about it. Is this considered working? surely you would not require a work permit just to test the market?

I am pretty sure on a non-imm B visa you can have business meetings like this.

There are actually lots of MNC company employee's who do what you suggest and much more - many do not even bother with the Biz visa and just turn up for meetings, training, conferences etc like that.

I know VP's, Regional Managers etc etc who all do this and have done it myself. If the shit hit the fan it would be for the company lawyers to sort out but might not stop some senior people in the pokey for a few days

[mikethevigoman]

I am based in Singapore and work for a Singapore company. I have a Singapore Work Permit and pay my taxes in Singapore. However my company are happy with me working from home one or two days per week. If I were to do my work from home from my second home in Phuket, would I need a Thai work permit?

I am sure if I tried to apply for a Thai Work Permit they would want to know about my Thai employer, but obviously I don't have one.

Some other things I am thinking of doing from my second home on Phuket: - 1. Some online training with a training provider based in the US, 2.Working on my novel (which I don't yet have a publisher for).

I imagine I don't need a work permit for these things but just don't want to risk having to write my novel from a Thai jail.

Any advice most welcome. Thanks.

I remember signing on as a young lad, and they always asked " have you done any work since you last signed on " the correct answer was "no",.. even if you had worked for no wages, you had worked !

[LivinLOS]

If the OP used a company to purchase his home in Phuket, would this be an avenue for getting a work permit?

Yep the OP has not purchased his home yet but is looking into setting up a company to do just that. Could be a possible solution.

The company formation for land and home ownership is no longer tolerated. Get better legal advice.

[LivinLOS]

Do really nobody knows how it is?

I have been told from Thai embassy(Finland) that If you work remotely and you don't have nothing (business) to do in Thailand it's legall.

Same way they said in Immigration in Samui (1 year ago).

So do somebody check this out?

According to the law and the Labour dept (the only people that matter) its illegal.

Try getting it from those other sources in writing.

[DavidOxon]

Do really nobody knows how it is?

I have been told from Thai embassy(Finland) that If you work remotely and you don't have nothing (business) to do in Thailand it's legall.

Same way they said in Immigration in Samui (1 year ago).

So do somebody check this out?

Thai Embassy in London gave me the same information.

D

[ade100]

OP here. Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

In conclusion, looks like the best thing may just be to “do it and shut up about it”. If, however, I want to totally legit and not take any risks…well I can’t. Even if I set up a company and obtain a WP, it would have to state all the “work-like” activities I plan to do: Checking emails, digging the garden, cleaning the swimming pool, training the dog and no doubt shopping, which could be classed as work (think of all the Thai personal shoppers and delivery services we are putting out of work by doing it ourselves :-))

I am contacting the Thai embassy in the UK by email to see if I can get something in writing from them. I’ll post up here if I do.

[soundman]

the very official position is simple : as soon as you are doing something you are working.

get real man! you mean i need a work permit to have sex with my wife? and she needs a work permit if she refills my cup with coffee during breakfast?

That would be taking a job away from a Thai! Absolutely illegal along with mowing the lawn, changing a tyre or watering the garden.

[apetley]

Not mowing the lawn and watering the garden?

The only pleasures left in life!

[justgoose]

OP here. Thanks everyone for your input and advice.

In conclusion, looks like the best thing may just be to "do it and shut up about it". If, however, I want to totally legit and not take any risks…well I can't. Even if I set up a company and obtain a WP, it would have to state all the "work-like" activities I plan to do: Checking emails, digging the garden, cleaning the swimming pool, training the dog and no doubt shopping, which could be classed as work (think of all the Thai personal shoppers and delivery services we are putting out of work by doing it ourselves :-))

I am contacting the Thai embassy in the UK by email to see if I can get something in writing from them. I'll post up here if I do.

Hi ade100,

Just wondering how you got on with this? I'm i a similar position, currently emplyed by a Thai company and I have a Non-Imm B and work permit. But I soon want to resign, work as a freelance and live in Thailand. But I will be conducting NO business IN Thailand and will not be paid in Thailand. I will be checking emails and writing reports from home.

Sounds like a similar position to you and just wondered how you got on or if anyone else has any advice.

I imagine the situation is the same, that I would be technically working but would not have the documentation to apply for a WP.

Incidentally, if I dont get a WP, should I then just live here on Tourist visas, or can I get a non Imm B without proof of employment.

Thanks.

[Maestro]

...work as a freelance and live in Thailand...

The way I look at it, it is all a question of terminology. If you say your working in Thailand then technically you need a work permit to be legal. If, on the other hand, you are in Thailand as tourist, enjoy the sights, shopping, the food, the company of friends and acquaintances and other things Thailand has to offer, read newspapers, write personal notes on your computer, browse the Internet, read and send emails, with or without attachments, do your online banking, etc., then I see no reason why you should need a work permit.

--

Maestro