Thais Love To Point. Cultural Thing Or Just Rude Here Also

[cm-happy]

A restaurants, bars,clubs, etc. I'll spot some one I know or someone I'd like to meet. Will ask Thai companions if they know the person also. Thais ALWAYS using arms and fingers will point to the individual, enbarrassing the heck out of me, will ask the Thais "Please don't point"!

Pointing seems to be accepted behavior in Thailand or is it considered as rude in Thailand as it is in the West?

edit for spelling

Edited December 10, 2007 by cm-happy

[ade100]

I have also asked this question and been told that educated Thais find pointing impolite. However many Thais do it. Really its no different to the UK or any other Western country. I was brought up not to point, stare, talk with my mouthful, cough without covering my mouth, etc. But of course many Brits will do all the above.

[JetsetBkk]

Thais ALWAYS using arms and fingers will point to the individual....

Pointing seems to be accepted behavior in Thailand...

In my experience, the opposite is true.

[LaoPo]

Thais ALWAYS using arms and fingers will point to the individual....

Pointing seems to be accepted behavior in Thailand...

In my experience, the opposite is true.

I know...if someone is too ugly there's no pointing anymore...they're just speechless...

LaoPo

[farang prince]

Well, Thais like to pick their nose too. Is this impolite?

[Tinkelbell]

I have also asked this question and been told that educated Thais find pointing impolite. However many Thais do it. Really its no different to the UK or any other Western country. I was brought up not to point, stare, talk with my mouthful, cough without covering my mouth, etc. But of course many Brits will do all the above.

Totally agree.

This comment is also from middle class educated Thai.

I'd like to add here also, cover your mouth while using a toothpick.

[LivinLOS]

I also remember reading in a guidebook on my earlist visits that in Thailand you shouldnt point at anything and should use your thumb to indicate an object etc not your index finger.. Tho I have never seen this done by Thais. Same as I remember reading that you should never put the fork in your mouth only the spoon (I noticed this as I am hyper sensitive to table manners) but see Thais eating that way.

I know I am guilty of pointing to things that are low down with my feet.. Always get a scowl from the missus but find it hard to over ride the mistake !!

[chicowoodduck]

Well, Thais like to pick their nose too. Is this impolite?

I believe the word would be "gross!"

[Scott]

Those of you who think the Thais like to pick their noses need to spend a little bit of time in China, where it seems that a finger in the nose is as common as hands in pockets in the West!

By the way, do you know how to break a Chinese persons finger---hit him in the nose!

[cm-happy]

I also remember reading in a guidebook on my earlist visits that in Thailand you shouldnt point at anything and should use your thumb to indicate an object etc not your index finger.. Tho I have never seen this done by Thais. Same as I remember reading that you should never put the fork in your mouth only the spoon (I noticed this as I am hyper sensitive to table manners) but see Thais eating that way.

I know I am guilty of pointing to things that are low down with my feet.. Always get a scowl from the missus but find it hard to over ride the mistake !!

Thanks for the heads up about not putting fork in mouth, but use only a spoon.

This puts to rest an old thread about why Thais use a fork to shovel food on to their spoon.

Come to think of it don't think I've ever seen a Thai putting food into mouth using a fork. I do it all the time when dealing with meat. Another bad farang habit to break.

[PeaceBlondie]

When I first came to Thailand and took my TEFL course in the classroom, we were taught to wave our hand in a general direction, but not to point with the finger. I got in that habit the two years that I taught full time, and then .....well, I forgot all about it. The other day I was asked about this, and realized I'd gone back to pointing, after four years in Thailand. I'm going to guess that finger-pointing, like toe-pointing, was an unforgivable sin in Thailand fifty years ago, but has now become common practice by lots of Thais. Heck, in my childhood we couldn't say 'heck' or 'gosh' or 'darn.' Marlboro broke the dictionary by advertising that it tasted good, LIKE a cigarette should. Times change. Thai culture changes.

Thai culture traditionally forbids hitting people on the head, but you see it all the time on television slapstick, as if it was a vaudeville clip from the 1940's.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Admittedly speaking out of ignorance (what's new?), isn't this thing about not putting the fork in your mouth very similar to what my mother told me, but mentioning the knife instead?

As to why it should be bad to put the knife in your mouth, I can only guess: If it is a sharp knife, you might cut yourself. If the knife is used in contact with common food, you might spread your germs to others. A fork could be seen as a similarly "dangerous" object...? But in Thailand, most communal meals are shared using your own utensils, so the hygiene aspect does not seem to come into play.

Only in terms of table manners, I do not see why a (blunt) knife or a fork contacting your oral regions could offend anyone. But that's only me.

Just before you start to think I am rambling and going over the edge, I shall help you and confirm your suspicion. I am! Bear with me just a little longer, to see a similar situation.

Muslims do not usually eat pork, since it is deemed to be unclean from what I gather. I have not done any research as to why, but I guess it is not based on the fact that a pig is happy to roll in the dirt (funnily pigs are supposedly quite fussy about their personal hygiene), but the fact that pork meat may contain a worm that can infest humans, and lead to very bad illness.

Today there are good ways to control this worm, but the pig stays "unclean" for muslims. I guess more for historical/religous, than for scientific reasons. Please can anyone correct me on this if I am wrong?

Edit: For clarity.

Edited December 11, 2007 by MeaMaximaCulpa

[canuckamuck]

I also remember reading in a guidebook on my earlist visits that in Thailand you shouldnt point at anything and should use your thumb to indicate an object etc not your index finger.. Tho I have never seen this done by Thais. Same as I remember reading that you should never put the fork in your mouth only the spoon (I noticed this as I am hyper sensitive to table manners) but see Thais eating that way.

I know I am guilty of pointing to things that are low down with my feet.. Always get a scowl from the missus but find it hard to over ride the mistake !!

Thanks for the heads up about not putting fork in mouth, but use only a spoon.

This puts to rest an old thread about why Thais use a fork to shovel food on to their spoon.

Come to think of it don't think I've ever seen a Thai putting food into mouth using a fork. I do it all the time when dealing with meat. Another bad farang habit to break.

Your kidding right? Using a fork to eat with is a bad habit? How do you eat your spaghetti or pieces of steak. Maybe some Thais feel it is rude to put a fork in their mouth, my wife has never heard of this BTW, but that is just dumb. I am all for supporting traditions that are beneficial or clever. But forks are brilliant. I use a spoon with rice dishes and similar things, but for most others I use a fork because it is better. Sometimes the visitor has knowledge of a better way. Forks are a better way.

Culture is frequently backwards.

[PeaceBlondie]

I just asked my 40 year old Thai partner about putting a fork in the mouth. I said the farang on ThaiVisa were fighting over whether Thai culture says it is very wrong to put a fork in your mouth. He replied, "Why not? STUPID!" So, apparently there is no such prohibition, at least in northern Thailand.

Pork/pig products are traditionally unclean in both the Jewish and Muslim faiths, for either religious or sanitary reasons.

[teacup]

Well, Thais like to pick their nose too. Is this impolite?

I believe the word would be "gross!"

Yeh...and especially it is very gross when you pick it with your fingernail, stare at it first, roll, and then flick that juicy booger out the window at the red light and don’t think anybody’s watching you. I’d seen a farang doing this while everybody was watching…..eewww

Edited December 11, 2007 by teacup

[ade100]

I just asked my 40 year old Thai partner about putting a fork in the mouth. I said the farang on ThaiVisa were fighting over whether Thai culture says it is very wrong to put a fork in your mouth. He replied, "Why not? STUPID!" So, apparently there is no such prohibition, at least in northern Thailand.

Pork/pig products are traditionally unclean in both the Jewish and Muslim faiths, for either religious or sanitary reasons.

My Thai GF told me that putting a fork into ones mouth could be seen as impolite by certain people but it depends on the food you are eating and the people you are eating with. She also said that these days no one really cares that much especially if you are a Westerner.

Compared to pointing with your feet or not taking your shoes off when entering someone's home, it is a very minor infraction.

[tuky]

From what I understand if you are signalling you want someone to come to you, you do it with your whole hand rather than your index finger as the index finger is how someone would call a dog over. Slightly off topic but a piece of asian courtesy we all should be aware of.

[canuckamuck]

From what I understand if you are signalling you want someone to come to you, you do it with your whole hand rather than your index finger as the index finger is how someone would call a dog over. Slightly off topic but a piece of asian courtesy we all should be aware of.

It is also rude to signal come here with your palm upturned. You should have the palm downward and just use your four fingers to make the come here motion. Same for calling tuk tuks and song taos.

[markwhite]

Pointing seems to be accepted behavior in Thailand or is it considered as rude in Thailand as it is in the West?

I'd not come across the 'rude to point' thing until a friend of mine remonstrated me for pointing by saying "Monkeys point". But then he was a very arrogant person at times. I did manage to restrain myself from advising him that monkeys will knock his teeth down his throat if he talks to me like that again, though it was tempting to do so.

So why is pointing rude? Do you mean pointing at things or people? Always or in certain circumstances? Enlighten me.

[PeaceBlondie]

I suspect that in their native countries, farang would be impolite to point too obviously, or in an accusing way.

[LivinLOS]

Admittedly speaking out of ignorance (what's new?), isn't this thing about not putting the fork in your mouth very similar to what my mother told me, but mentioning the knife instead?

As to why it should be bad to put the knife in your mouth, I can only guess: If it is a sharp knife, you might cut yourself. If the knife is used in contact with common food, you might spread your germs to others. A fork could be seen as a similarly "dangerous" object...? But in Thailand, most communal meals are shared using your own utensils, so the hygiene aspect does not seem to come into play.

Only in terms of table manners, I do not see why a (blunt) knife or a fork contacting your oral regions could offend anyone. But that's only me.

Just before you start to think I am rambling and going over the edge, I shall help you and confirm your suspicion. I am! Bear with me just a little longer, to see a similar situation.

Muslims do not usually eat pork, since it is deemed to be unclean from what I gather. I have not done any research as to why, but I guess it is not based on the fact that a pig is happy to roll in the dirt (funnily pigs are supposedly quite fussy about their personal hygiene), but the fact that pork meat may contain a worm that can infest humans, and lead to very bad illness.

Today there are good ways to control this worm, but the pig stays "unclean" for muslims. I guess more for historical/religous, than for scientific reasons. Please can anyone correct me on this if I am wrong?

Edit: For clarity.

I too had considered the knife similarity...

As to muslims and pork.. I would also say that in an african climate (and flies etc) pork meat would spoil very fast.. I think the bad meat thing has as much to do with pork and also hallal (spelling ??) and kosher eating rules as anything else.. These long standing rules are then repeated and culturally encoded into religous law. Could imagine how fresh shellfish dont travel into the desert for 40 days and 40 nights too well !!

[LivinLOS]

I also remember reading in a guidebook on my earlist visits that in Thailand you shouldnt point at anything and should use your thumb to indicate an object etc not your index finger.. Tho I have never seen this done by Thais. Same as I remember reading that you should never put the fork in your mouth only the spoon (I noticed this as I am hyper sensitive to table manners) but see Thais eating that way.

I know I am guilty of pointing to things that are low down with my feet.. Always get a scowl from the missus but find it hard to over ride the mistake !!

Thanks for the heads up about not putting fork in mouth, but use only a spoon.

This puts to rest an old thread about why Thais use a fork to shovel food on to their spoon.

Come to think of it don't think I've ever seen a Thai putting food into mouth using a fork. I do it all the time when dealing with meat. Another bad farang habit to break.

Your kidding right? Using a fork to eat with is a bad habit? How do you eat your spaghetti or pieces of steak. Maybe some Thais feel it is rude to put a fork in their mouth, my wife has never heard of this BTW, but that is just dumb. I am all for supporting traditions that are beneficial or clever. But forks are brilliant. I use a spoon with rice dishes and similar things, but for most others I use a fork because it is better. Sometimes the visitor has knowledge of a better way. Forks are a better way.

Culture is frequently backwards.

You may notice Thais cut all thier meat into spoon sized pieces prior to cooking / serving ?? Thier closest thing to spagetti would be noodles and those seem to be dealt with spoon style or even spoon and chopsticks in gwie teow form (always baffled me why they choose chopsticks for the slipperyest dam_n item )..

Steak or spaghetti is exactly common thai cuisine !!

[canuckamuck]

Your kidding right? Using a fork to eat with is a bad habit? How do you eat your spaghetti or pieces of steak. Maybe some Thais feel it is rude to put a fork in their mouth, my wife has never heard of this BTW, but that is just dumb. I am all for supporting traditions that are beneficial or clever. But forks are brilliant. I use a spoon with rice dishes and similar things, but for most others I use a fork because it is better. Sometimes the visitor has knowledge of a better way. Forks are a better way.

Culture is frequently backwards.

You may notice Thais cut all thier meat into spoon sized pieces prior to cooking / serving ?? Thier closest thing to spagetti would be noodles and those seem to be dealt with spoon style or even spoon and chopsticks in gwie teow form (always baffled me why they choose chopsticks for the slipperyest dam_n item )..

Steak or spaghetti is exactly common thai cuisine !!

Well if you wish to specifically talk about Thai food, I am aware that a spoon can be used on all dishes, I do use chopsticks for Chinese food, like Ba Mee. I could also use my hands for some stuff, and occasionally I do. My point was that there are times when the fork is the superior utensil. On those occasions I use a fork, and nobody finds it peculiar in any way. I have noticed that they do have food from other countries available in Thailand. How do you like your spooned up fondue?

[Crossy]

Interestingly (or not) I find that what my fork does or does not do depends upon what I have in my right hand (completely automatically).

If I'm holding a spoon the fork pushes food onto it for conveyance to (or at least near) my mouth, it I'm holding a knife then the fork puts t' grub in me gob

It somehow feels wrong to eat Asian food with a knife and fork, fork / spoon or chopsticks / spoon (and it must be a long-handled spoon for Korean) just feel right, must have been here too long.

The one thing I can't do is use fingers, even for chicken wings (British upbringing at work here), I'm only just learning to pick up ribs and gnaw on them.

[meemiathai]

Pointing seems to be accepted behavior in Thailand or is it considered as rude in Thailand as it is in the West?

I'd not come across the 'rude to point' thing until a friend of mine remonstrated me for pointing by saying "Monkeys point". But then he was a very arrogant person at times. I did manage to restrain myself from advising him that monkeys will knock his teeth down his throat if he talks to me like that again, though it was tempting to do so.

So why is pointing rude? Do you mean pointing at things or people? Always or in certain circumstances? Enlighten me.

Yes, exactly same question from me. What is wrong with pointing?

Or is it that everyone will have to be like military people giving grid references? Go and check the bloody map to see what I was refering to!

[meemiathai]

For me, chopsticks the best! The most convenient way. I don't like fork at all. Very difficult to control.

[meemiathai]

From what I understand if you are signalling you want someone to come to you, you do it with your whole hand rather than your index finger as the index finger is how someone would call a dog over. Slightly off topic but a piece of asian courtesy we all should be aware of.

It is also rude to signal come here with your palm upturned. You should have the palm downward and just use your four fingers to make the come here motion. Same for calling tuk tuks and song taos.

Agreed.

[markwhite]

Yes, exactly same question from me. What is wrong with pointing?

I'm killing a few minutes trying to answer our question, though I'd love to hear from others.

From a few 'answers' websites, I can find:

"People don’t like being pointed out in a crowd for the most part, therefore it is considered negative behavior and socially unaccepted in general."

and

"It's like pointing a firearm, a person would believe you intend them harm. Pointing a finger is similar in many cultures. Also in cultures it is desired that a person act in a manner in-which they do not stand out. Pointing at them removes the harmony of the whole and points them out as an individual, which can be an invasion of privacy."

Which I can understand, though it's difficult as I don't feel it myself.

"If you see two people arguing and one of them repeatedly pokes his/her finger towards the others chest, this looks really rude and aggressive."

and

"The gesture itself is a bit agressive and (if you’re standing close) invasive."

I'd agree with, but that's more of a 'finger-stabbing' than indicative pointing which I believe this thread is concerned with.

"because it just is.would you like it if i point at you? how would you feel.?"

Well, the first part does nothing for me. If it's a 'that's him over there' point I would think it's perfectly appropriate. If it's a 'I want to bring attention to a physical defect I find amusing' sort-of point, then it's the pointer's problem for being juvenile.

Which brings to to the best reason I could find so far:

"I think, as with most issues of etiquette, it’s simply a matter of context. For instance, if I tell my waitress that I want to buy a drink for a woman on the other side of the restaurant, I don’t think it would be considered rude for the waitress to point me out when delivering the drink.

If, however, you are walking though the grocery store with your six-year-old son, and he points at someone with an obvious physical or mental disability, or some embarrassing trait—that, I think, would be considered rude. Especially if it is accompanied by the six-year-old voice (same decibel level as a jet engine) saying, “That woman has a huge butt!” Not that I’m speaking from experience. Actually, I am.

So the OP is right—it’s rude because our parents didn’t want to be embarrassed by the social ineptness of children."

So I can understand why some people have been told not to do something that might cause embarassment to parents and it's meme'd it's way from there. Though I think that would be a shame if that was all there was too it - people needing to control their kids to stop them voicing their opinion :-(

I'd prefer to hear a better reason.

[sinom]

On the subject of pointing ............

surely everybody knows there is only one acceptable way..........

purse your lips, squeeze them out as far as you can, and then push your neck out in the direction of the desired person / object whilst saying "noooooooooonnnnnnn!"

[GuestHouse]

To determine what is impolite behaviour in Thai society you need to observe Thais in two different social settings.

Setting 1. When Thais are interacting with someone higher up the social pecking order than they themselves are.

Setting 2. When Thais are interacting with someone lower down the social pecking order than they themselves are.

As a general rule, behaviour present in Social Setting 2 but absent in Social Setting 1 is what is widely accepted as impolite within Thai society.

As a second general rule, the breadth of behaviour difference in these two settings is a sure measure of the manners and up bringing of the Thai exhibiting the change in behaviour - The wider the swing in behaviour the more ill mannered and ill bred the individual.

Edited December 11, 2007 by GuestHouse