Condo / House Rental In Singapore

[torrenova]

It might be that I have to spend some time in Singapore in the New Year and I might not be able to fly back each Friday and return Monday morning as I anticipated. So running an hotel for 7 days a week could get a little pricey and as I know from before when I near lived out of hotels, you start to miss the homely things you just don't get even in the best of hotels.

So I am considering the other options. Renting a condo would seem the most logical but I come across lots of stumbling blocks like getting ripped off in government condos being rented out illegally, having to pay the agents fee (or part thereof) though you are the renter (unless over SGD2500 per month) which is barking mad and the general high cost.

Not sure exactly where I would be based but likely in the CBD so easy transport in all seasons essential. No 15 minute walks to stations and that malarky. On an easy cab route would be good.

Please help as I have very little knowledge about Singapore outside 5* hotels and I cannot go live in one of those on my budget !

[NordicMan]

It might be that I have to spend some time in Singapore in the New Year and I might not be able to fly back each Friday and return Monday morning as I anticipated. So running an hotel for 7 days a week could get a little pricey and as I know from before when I near lived out of hotels, you start to miss the homely things you just don't get even in the best of hotels.

So I am considering the other options. Renting a condo would seem the most logical but I come across lots of stumbling blocks like getting ripped off in government condos being rented out illegally, having to pay the agents fee (or part thereof) though you are the renter (unless over SGD2500 per month) which is barking mad and the general high cost.

Not sure exactly where I would be based but likely in the CBD so easy transport in all seasons essential. No 15 minute walks to stations and that malarky. On an easy cab route would be good.

Please help as I have very little knowledge about Singapore outside 5* hotels and I cannot go live in one of those on my budget !

How long period are you talking about? A fortnight here and there, or rent it for a whole year and just leave it empty while you're not around?

What kind of budget do you have in mind? there are flats available in a huge price range. Should be easy to find something liveable for 2000-3000 per month. -unless you mean that you want to pay substantially less than 2500.

[torrenova]

The figure of SGD2500 per month come from my research of the rental market where the potty scheme of the tenant paying for some or all of the agents fees exists. I know that in any country in the world I can spend a few hundred $ or many thousands each month. I just need some advice from those who know the area.

Obviously i want to pay the least rent possible. I'll need a minimum of a 1 bedroomed condo with living room as my wife and daughter will come down sometimes when I cannot get back to Thailand. I could do with bigger but it is an unnecessary expense to have a large condo when I need it only a short time each month. Internet access via ADSL is a prerequisite.

As for lease, I'll probably take a minimum of 6 months or a longer lease with a 6 month break clause on my side. I would like some first hand experience of renting in Singapore as it seems more akin to Japan than Thailand.

[Rango]

Getting an apartment in SG is a huge pain the a$$. I have one and i regret it. You have to pay 2-3 months rent up front (this covers part of the agent fees) and usually a 2 year lease. They are quite overpriced and the place just kind of bites by comparison to Thailand anyways.

That said...

You could try Craigs List Singapore:

http://singapore.craigslist.com.sg/

or take a poke around on Singapore Expat Forum:

http://www.singaporeexpats.com/forum/index.php

You can often find rooms to let in the Straits times as well. Also there are several longstay places around Chinatown and Geylang. Serviced apartments that advertise online are pretty spendy. Your best bet is going to be looking around while on the ground in the country.

Good luck.

[torrenova]

Cheers for those links, I'll get through them tomorrow. So anyone know who does the renting in Singapore ? who owns the properties ? People, companies, a complete mix ?

Anyone live there before or now who can suggest the best area / trade off for cost / location ?

[Thaising]

Cheers for those links, I'll get through them tomorrow. So anyone know who does the renting in Singapore ? who owns the properties ? People, companies, a complete mix ?

Anyone live there before or now who can suggest the best area / trade off for cost / location ?

Take a look at this website http://mocca.com/portal/site/cas, under property section you may find out some details on the present condo rental rate and Location.

Good luck.

[mrtoad]

OP, PM if you want a reputable contact.

[thedude]

Cheers for those links, I'll get through them tomorrow. So anyone know who does the renting in Singapore ? who owns the properties ? People, companies, a complete mix ?

Anyone live there before or now who can suggest the best area / trade off for cost / location ?

i own an apartment in singapore. sorry to say that rentals have gone up quite a lot in the past year or so, this is following in line with property prices that have just skyrocketed. case in point, i have been renting my 2+1 bedroom apartment to a german bloke working for Seimens for the past 2 years at $2,300 per month, the contract is coming up for renewal and i have to increase it to the $4,500 to $5,000 range because comparable units are now asking this much. my tenant is of course shell shocked but still desperate to renew at these rates (even I think its ridiculous but of course not complaining) because he knows if he vacates he won't find anything comparable and prices meanwhile continue to rise. at the end of the day its Seimens that needs to increase its accomodation budget for its expats, higher cost of doing business, but they have to weigh that up against locating in other similar cities....

if you are not working for a multinational, its going to be tough on you to compete with their expats for affordable rental units. supply in good areas cannot keep up with demand under present economic conditions.

i agree that you should look at a small bedsitter if its just yourself mostly living there. try studio units in the following areas close to town, the MRT may not pass these areas but at least its a short bus/taxi ride into the city. warning - these are desireable but competitive areas.

river valley area,

holland road/farrer road,

tanglin area,

newton to balestier area,

stevens road/balmoral road,

bukit timah,

mount sophia/mckenzie road area.

alternatively, you could venture a bit further out if prices are too high or its hard to find a studio, in which case i would suggest going East to neighbourhoods like tanjong rhu, siglap, katong, marine parade and maybe closer to changi. good luck.

Edited January 3, 2008 by thedude

[torrenova]

Thanks for that. I love that line:

i have been renting my 2+1 bedroom apartment to a german bloke working for Seimens for the past 2 years at $2,300 per month, the contract is coming up for renewal and i have to increase it to the $4,500 to $5,000 range because comparable units are now asking this much

Sorry, you've given me my chuckle of the day with "I have to increase it". You are completely right as it is a business but I have seen nowhere even in Tokyo and London in the boom times when rents have jumped so far so quickly. I get the feeling that rents were held back and yields went down too low and now rents have jumped ahead of where they really should be, largely I think because of Singapore's strange way of having long term contracts.

Have you any expereince of these condo blocks which have been sold en bloc and say you have 6 to 9 months to get out ? That might be one way to get a shorter lease but I would like some input from people on the ground.

Thanks all, please keep them coming.

[thedude]

Thanks for that. I love that line:

i have been renting my 2+1 bedroom apartment to a german bloke working for Seimens for the past 2 years at $2,300 per month, the contract is coming up for renewal and i have to increase it to the $4,500 to $5,000 range because comparable units are now asking this much

Sorry, you've given me my chuckle of the day with "I have to increase it". You are completely right as it is a business but I have seen nowhere even in Tokyo and London in the boom times when rents have jumped so far so quickly. I get the feeling that rents were held back and yields went down too low and now rents have jumped ahead of where they really should be, largely I think because of Singapore's strange way of having long term contracts.

Have you any expereince of these condo blocks which have been sold en bloc and say you have 6 to 9 months to get out ? That might be one way to get a shorter lease but I would like some input from people on the ground.

Thanks all, please keep them coming.

yes that is a good idea to look for condos that have recently gone for or are about to close an en bloc transaction. my own unit was undergoing the process last year before the new en bloc law was put in place that scuttled the deal. we were only short of 10% of the signatures required to push the deal through but now we'd have to restart the process under the new law. its very time consuming and an en bloc attempt would typically take around 2 years to complete. during this time, because of uncertainty of completion, owners might find it hard to rent out unless tenants accept a clause inserted in the tenancy agreement that allows the owner to break contract to complete the en bloc deal. so short term lessees like yourself might be suitable, but you might expect general upkeep and maintenance to be more relaxed as the property management would probably have expended what remaining budget and are looking for a new job.

i'm not sure about tokyo or london but singapore was seen as a laggard in the post-crisis real estate boom in the region like in hong kong or bangkok or KL, and so what happened in the last 12 months was like an accelerated recovery of prices, and with other cities being fully priced in, hedge fund liquidity from the west as well as funds from india, russia, middle east, china and so on flooded into the singapore real estate market. i think the rental boom can only be driven in part by decreasing yields, it needs to be supported by real growth in the economy. rents are actually not high enough, even with my recent rent adjustments i am still looking at a gross yield of about 2.25% because while i have essentially doubled my rent, my property value has grown 3 to 4 fold. but it is typical that in boom times yields will underperform asset growth. bottom line is i think rents will not go much higher without putting too much inflationary pressure on wages and business costs.

Edited January 5, 2008 by thedude

[NanLaew]

I too may be working 8 months in SIN this year and was wondering what the alternatives to brain-deadening hotels are. Last time I did it 10 years ago, I was lucky that my mate had a big, company-paid condo that I crashed at as long as I brought in the Jack Daniels from duty free!

But hotel room rates have also gone through the roof and I remarked in another thread how the US State Department lodging per-diem for Singapore has risen 58% in the last month alone.

It seems like for all it's first world claims, the place doesn't seem to have a diverse and robust real-estate market, especially for people who may be on temporary assignments. Even a 1-year lease isn't much use.

Also note that Tiger Airways don't fly from SIN to Udon anymore so that means either an airport swap in Bangkok or waiting 6 hours at SUV to make the AirAsia connections. Merde!

[NanLaew]

It seems like for all it's first world claims, the place doesn't seem to have a diverse and robust real-estate market, especially for people who may be on temporary assignments. Even a 1-year lease isn't much use.

I bite my tongue! After a quick google search, there's plenty of options for serviced apartments with a wide variety of comfort, service and prices to suit all budgets.

Has anyone with recent SIN experience got any recommendations on this option? I heard that some of the low-end ones that are more favored by the single bloke on a limited budget can be like a frat house and pretty crappy for what you pay.

(With apologies to torrenova if I appear to have hijacked the thread.)

[stats]

Getting an apartment in SG is a huge pain the a$$. I have one and i regret it. You have to pay 2-3 months rent up front (this covers part of the agent fees)

This is how we charge in Singapore so that it could covers the agent fees

[torrenova]

Thanks to all for the further input.

From my research over the last few months, it does seem that the housing market is chaotic to say the least. It may be the way things are done in Singapore but it does not instill any confidence on the part of the renter. I am a great believer that if you want $50 then you ask for $50, not $35 and then have to tag on $5 here and $10 there. This idea of agents working for the renter is absurd as well. Thoughts of collusion with landlords abound. My limited knowledge of this "en bloc" sale system doesn't leave a sweet taste in my mouth either.

However, the bottom line is that any package has to include enough to service the condo rental whatever it may be and the decision to accept an offer must reflect that. I just have to try and get somewhere decent and it looks like I'll have to do it locally.

What about the local papers. I hear its just agents but don't people try to rent privately, landlords I mean ?

[Prakanong]

Thanks to all for the further input.

From my research over the last few months, it does seem that the housing market is chaotic to say the least. It may be the way things are done in Singapore but it does not instill any confidence on the part of the renter. I am a great believer that if you want $50 then you ask for $50, not $35 and then have to tag on $5 here and $10 there. This idea of agents working for the renter is absurd as well. Thoughts of collusion with landlords abound. My limited knowledge of this "en bloc" sale system doesn't leave a sweet taste in my mouth either.

However, the bottom line is that any package has to include enough to service the condo rental whatever it may be and the decision to accept an offer must reflect that. I just have to try and get somewhere decent and it looks like I'll have to do it locally.

What about the local papers. I hear its just agents but don't people try to rent privately, landlords I mean ?

Its quite rare for the landlords to go directly - they can get agents to bear all the costs of advertising etc.

Yes it is confusing first time around and that is why most companies give you a re-location consultnat to act on your behalf. Mine was a tough old "Auntie" who really hwlped - she had the contract changed so much, got us certain furniture and even chose the colour of my curtains etc - me and the ex were a bit overwhelmed by her but she did help a lot and the ex thought she was great - She knows a similar agent in Bangkok would have been looking down her nose at her.

You could get your own agent - if you are paying over 2.5 a month the landlord pays them anyway and they will co-broke with the landlords agent in many cases - thing is as you allude to there is no incentive to get you the best deal as they get more the more rent is paid.

With a company supplied agent she has to treat us well as she wants all future work from us so there is a bit of an incentive there to work on our side.

I have heard situations where the renter has made side deals with the agent to get the agent to influence the landlord to a lower monthly rent - do not know how legal these are.

You do often get the chance to speak to the owner directly though - the agents hate this but a Chinese Malay girl at work just got a nice place 500 SGD off the asking price by doing this - she is a very togh cookie though and asked her to negotiate for me next time ;-)

There is good protection in the market in some ways though - 4 months after I signed a 2 year contract my landlord sold the condo for twice what she paid for it 4 months earlier. My 2 year contract runs with the new owner though and there has been no attempt to get me out and they can not raise the rent till the end of the two years - I reckon mine will go up 50-100% next time.

[Captain Chaos]

My experience broadly dovetails with what has been already said:

Sing rental market that has appreciated strongly over the last couple of years - heard on BBC Asia Biz Report this morning that they expect it to flatten off (but not decline) during 2008. In these circumstances, the usual 2 year contracts are handy for those who are in Singapore for long enough time. Most contracts have a "diplomatic" clause which allows you to break it if you are re-patriated by your employer (ie. you lose your job) ... doesn't sound like Torrenova is going to be in Singapore all that long but maybe could sign up to a 2 year lease and use that to exit at the appropriate time?

Forget areas like Bukit Timah, Holland Village and the other usual expat haunts if you're on a tight budget. Look at areas on the fringe of the CBD or further out. Also look at 'off the wall' areas such as Chinatown or Little India - these won't suit everyone hence they seem a bit cheaper (I stay in Chinatown and my Thai missus quite likes it - has a more chaotic, Bangkok-lite feel to it than you usually find in well-regulated Singapore)

Definitely use an agent - PM me for a couple of useful ones - but my experience is that each tends to have their own patch where they are strongest - so if you have a general area in mind, ask them about what they have there first. I used two agents and never found that they showed me the same properties - although I was told that this would be the case and it was better to only use a single agent blah blah blah

Knocked about in some serviced apartments when I first arrived - frankly I found them incredibly over-priced for what they offer here, and you deffo need a sympathetic employer with deep pockets to go down that route!

My lease is up in Nov 2008 and I'm planning to buy a condo in the summer - but then I'm here for the long term...

CC

[torrenova]

Cheers again fols, some good advice there.

The great difficulty for me is actually understanding what is good value, as well as the area. I mean, I have a place in Angel, Islington, London which would rent out at perhaps £2500-3000 per month (circa SGD 8000) but that is top notch and luxurious. Within a couple of miles the same size place would be lucky to fetch £1500-1750 per month (circa SGD 4500).

At SGD 3000 per month, you're talking about £1075 and whilst that would be fair for a mediocre 1/2 bed in a moderate area in London, it would be OTT for a 1 bed or studio unless in a desirable area. Given that Singapore is not London, I would have thought that a half decent studio could be had for way less than SGD 3000 and a 1 bed also being less than SGD 3000.

I hate the thought of having to spend a month in an hotel whilst looking for condos so I'm trying to do as much as possible from this end via the net and with help from you folks.

Any suggestions to areas - I have maps by district and the like but within that district, it seems impossible to get a grip of just what it is like.

Thanks again and keep the ideas coming.

[ade100]

Many Expats live on the East Coast. Its a great area with lots of facilities and of course the long stretch of beach. Holland Park is another area popular with Expats. Some of the areas up in the north of the island are not so popular and can take a while to get into town. The most expensive and fashionable area is probably around Orchard Road.

Condo prices have doubled in the last two years so I decided to share a place. I used this site which is pretty good:

http://sg.easyroommate.com

Bonne chance!

[thaiclan]

I have a 3 bedroom appt on the East Coast, BUT it is quite small, for instance the 3rd bedroom couldn't fit a wardrobe (I use as an office). When I leased 18months ago the rent was $3,600 with a 2 year lease, its up for renewal and the increases are amazing! It will cost $5,800 for the next lease but I'll keep it as that is still a good bargain compared to other areas. Also as said in a previous post rentals are still actually low compared where they need to be based on pre-SARS levels.

East Coast is nice location as you have the park and the beach. In your circumstances why don't you try to lodge with a farang and just rent a room. There are many single farang (called Angmohs here) who work in the city who would probably jump at the chance to rent a room to a tenant who wont always be there, especially as many will be feeling the pinch with the rent rises. Try singaporeexpats.com....

Oh one other bit of advice. Everyone told me when I arrived to avoid using Far East property services. Unfortunately they are the 2nd largest land owners so quite hard to avoid. I am now one of those who urge any new arrival to AVOID Far East property services. The service is appalling and leaves you frustrated and wishing you could terminate immediately.

[torrenova]

Whats travelling like from the east coast ? I've used the MRT from the airport and its not bad and I'm used to subways in London, Tokyo and Hong Kong in rush hour so that doesn't faze me. What would not do would be to have to walk a long way to a station - remember it rains in this area !

As for sharing, well that's out. Whilst I will be away some of the time, my wife and baby will come down during the month and I don't want anyone else around. Also, I haven't shared since uni days and don't really relish the though now.

[ade100]

Whats travelling like from the east coast ? I've used the MRT from the airport and its not bad and I'm used to subways in London, Tokyo and Hong Kong in rush hour so that doesn't faze me. What would not do would be to have to walk a long way to a station - remember it rains in this area !

As for sharing, well that's out. Whilst I will be away some of the time, my wife and baby will come down during the month and I don't want anyone else around. Also, I haven't shared since uni days and don't really relish the though now.

I used to live in Bayshore Park condo on the east coast. They provide a shuttle bus to Bedok MRT which takes 10 minutes. Then its 20 minutes on the MRT into the centre. There are. of course, condos that are walking distance to the MRT but still close to the east coast. Also taxis are pretty cheap and the bus service is fast and efficient.

[soihok]

If you can get hold of a copy of the Straits Times ,Saturday edition ,,it has the weeks largest listing of Condos,houses,shared accomodation and some of the advertisers state no agents, but not many.

The nearer you are to the city the more you will be paying for what you get.

As an earlier poster pointed out , the property prices here have gone crazy over the last year, rent has almost doubled.

I rent a 3 bedroom condo in West Coast for SGD2000 a month( this was before the increase in prices so I can expect it to be much more if I renew in December) ,,,one month deposit,,,one month agent fee for a 2 year contract.

I have rented a condo before direct from the owner so no extra fee to pay but it is not common practice.

Check out Saturday Straits Times to give you an idea.

By the way,....you can haggle down the price. I have done this and it is normal.

Cheers

Edited January 13, 2008 by soihok