Was Thaskin More Corrupt Than Previous Governments?

[TonyLeung]

And will proceding governments be less corrupt? Is the current military junta less corrupt than Thaskin?

[tijnebijn]

Corruption will never fade away .

guess mr t was more corrupt then the current one , but at the

same time made lots and lots more money for the country ,

and also the local economy was booming at the time .

So is corruption bad ? Yes it is , but all is corrupt anyway ,

even at the local ampuh and obetoh offices .

So the point is not about who is more corrupt , but more

about who can make something happening more , guess mr T

in that aspect was the best to get , never has a Pm done and create

so much .

About his topple , a lot of prominent people not getting their piece

got very angry , so stamp him with corruption , which they all are

Such good politics here don't ya think ?

[soundman]

Yes, maybe & no.

He was definately more greedy, throw in ambitions for the penultimate goal & far more arrogant than most of his predecessors - which is probably one of the main reasons he was forceably removed by those with more power than him.

[SpacemanSpliff]

Was Thaksin more Corrupt than previous governments

Of course not. Don't tell me some people still believe the coup was about corruption?

And will proceding governments be less corrupt?

No, they will be more corrupt, have less power and ultimately get less done.

Is the current military junta less corrupt than Thaskin?

Thaksin never needed tanks, or to burn the constitution.

Nuff said I think? I mean it *IS* a no-brainer.

Good coverage on the BBC too today.

[Travel2003]

Corrupt or not, but there have never been a Thai prime minister that has been on so many NGO black lists before.

[SpacemanSpliff]

Possibly that's because there were less NGOs around when the Royal Thai Army under Genersal Suchinda, then PM, slaughtered people wholesale in downtown Bangkok? And not drug mafia or Muslim terorrists, but regular Thais putting their life on the line for democracy?

Just asking.

And speaking of blacklists or other lists from NGOs and the like, you DID notice that Thailand had a bit of a free-fall in the press-freedom ranking, general freedom ranking, and yes, corruption ranking since the military takeover?

And the latest word is on SPEND on military toys.. Hey the dollar is cheap! So much for sufficiency I guess. Possibly sufficiency applies mostly to poor people and not the military?

Edited December 20, 2007 by SpacemanSpliff

[Travel2003]

Possibly that's because there were less NGOs around when the Royal Thai Army under Genersal Suchinda, then PM, slaughtered people wholesale in downtown Bangkok? And not drug mafia or Muslim terorrists, but regular Thais putting their life on the line for democracy?

Just asking.

And speaking of blacklists or other lists from NGOs and the like, you DID notice that Thailand had a bit of a free-fall in the press-freedom ranking, general freedom ranking, and yes, corruption ranking since the military takeover?

And the latest word is on SPEND on military toys.. Hey the dollar is cheap! So much for sufficiency I guess. Possibly sufficiency applies mostly to poor people and not the military?

Unfortunately one almost expect a Junta (and their puppet gownerments) to behave that way.

Mr. Taksin was elected, and then ended up on the lists.

That was what I meant.

rgds

[CNXagent]

The scale to measure Toxin's corruption is streached to the maximum and unfortunately the pointer broke

So, the corruption is beyond any magnitude known

As reported yesterday, his government cost the country to lost some 180 billion baht?? What about those unseen and untraceable?

Just look at the reported wealth of his whole family before he took office and after he was kicked out after the coup. And that is what was reported. What about those that was not in his / or other family name? Those that was transfered and safely hidden overseas etc

No other former or future government can match that amount of money 'stolen' from Thailand!

[SpacemanSpliff]

As reported yesterday, his government cost the country to lost some 180 billion baht??

OMG!!!

Ok, seriously: check just about any publication on the economy.. Or ask the people.. poor, middle class.. Thaksin turned Thailand back on the right track economically.

"COST Thailand money.. "

Edited December 20, 2007 by SpacemanSpliff

[mrtoad]

However, the question that he asked is a pretty fair one. In my opininon, and I'm certainly not pertaining to be an expert, Toxin is clearly a corrupt individual, however, I'd say that he's no more corrupt than many of the people in government who are actually accusing him as being corrupt. To me, it is more about a power struggle between established families fighting to stay in the game. Toxin was at the point where he was almost able to check mate some of the old boys, and take an more of a larger slice of the pie, there was no way that they were going to stand aside and let it happen, hence the coup.

Edited December 21, 2007 by Jai Dee
Quoted deleted post removed

[lazeeboy]

he was as corrupt as they come ,but so is bill gates and all the big business men in the world ,nobody gets the kind of money they have by being mr nice guy ,he made a lot of money for himself and his country .

[Travel2003]

In what way did Mr. Taksin make money for the country?

Pls dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to be ironic or silly here.

I would really like to know that.

[mogoso]

he was as corrupt as they come ,but so is bill gates and all the big business men in the world ,nobody gets the kind of money they have by being mr nice guy ,he made a lot of money for himself and his country .

I think corrupt as they come, is a politician that recieves aid money for his straving population, yet banks it in a swiss bank account, as many of the African leaders have done.

I personally thought mr.t feathered his nest a little too much, but also the people of Thailand advanced economically. Unfortunately the hisos felt they weren't getting enough of the pie.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

And will proceding governments be less corrupt? Is the current military junta less corrupt than Thaskin?

Toxin made corruption into an art.

[SpacemanSpliff]

In what way did Mr. Taksin make money for the country? Pls dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to be ironic or silly here. I would really like to know that.

When Thaksin came to power the country was an economic basket case; the asian bubble had burst, Thailand was deep, deep in debt and the government of the day seemed inert to do anything about it.

Couple years later and:

* IMF debt is GONE!

* Construction is booming again; The 'skeleton buildings' resulting from the crisis are being completed or replaced.

* SME's (Small and Medium Sized Enterprises) were made a focual point with many programs; this is really a main strength of asian economies and Thaksin recognized this

* Grass-roots projects (OTOP) to bring local produce and crafts to a national and international market; another key strength that was just lost before has been made to work for those rural people as well as generate money for Thailand.

* Liberalize the airline industry.. It used to be only Thai airways could fly most routes.. This is now gone, and airfares have plummeted, meaning more people can fly, also helping the economy. (And this is also where one of the Thaksin-haters seem to call him corrupt because he also owned Thai Air Asia at the time.. To lower middle class people however: Who the $*#(&$# cares if you can fly to Chiang Mai or Had Yai for around a 1000 baht! Thai Airways was completely inert also.. a fat pig monopolist.. Thaksin shook things up alright, and even Thai Airways is doing sensible things these days.

* Calling long distance used to cost 18 baht a minute!! Remember those days!

* MANY programmes to develop the IT / IS industry. A potential strength.

* Agricultural loans, greatly stimulating agriculture, Thailand's main industry.

* Extend BOI ; just about anyone with a good idea can get BOI privileges.

* Strike a severe blow to the illegal gambling sub-economy by introducing a lottery plan for which there existed clear demand. (Betting on any last number or last 2 - 3 numbers). The military junta has cancelled this programme again and as a result illegal gambling is back.

* Drugs (Ya Ba / Meth) were in danger of paralizing certain areas. Thaksin's widely supported draconian drug war surprised friend and foe in that it actually WORKED.. Not sure if you were around in the bars before Thaksin, but everyone was high on meth. Since the drug crackdown prices got so high that it effectively reduced the problem considerably.

* In general a push away from what he called 'social ills' where teenagers weren't studying or working but partying already at a young age, abuse alcohol and drugs, etc. This was the aim of the social order programme... which in truth is THE thing why most people on this site don't like Thaksin: They prefer unlimited booze and easy girls high on meth. Well I'm sure that was nice for them, but it did little for the Thai economy with so many people non-contributing to the economy.

There's probably loads and loads more.. Not sure if there's people on this site with the knowledge to add to it, but I think the above is a good start.

[Ricardo]

Was Thaksin more Corrupt than previous governments

Yes - look at his overall family-wealth before & after his time in power.

And will proceding governments be less corrupt ?

Hopefully.

Is the current military junta less corrupt than Thaskin ?

Yes, definitely.

As reported yesterday, his government cost the country to lost some 180 billion baht??

OMG!!! Quite.

Thaksin turned Thailand back on the right track economically.

So a strongly-appreciating currency is good for export-industries or tourism ? And Thailand was not already on the right track, and repaying the IMF-loans, before Thaksin came to power ?

[legag]

How we know the right figure how much each govt. corrupt? We never know but at the end of the day they all corrupt. Same s*** diff. govt.

To all Thais: GO VOTE!

[jayjayjayjay]

Was Thaksin more Corrupt than previous governments

Of course not. Don't tell me some people still believe the coup was about corruption?

And will proceding governments be less corrupt?

No, they will be more corrupt, have less power and ultimately get less done.

Is the current military junta less corrupt than Thaskin?

Thaksin never needed tanks, or to burn the constitution.

Nuff said I think? I mean it *IS* a no-brainer.

Good coverage on the BBC too today.

Careful, wait for TonyClifton and Hammer to read your comments!!!

Personally, I couldn't agree with you more.......

[seykota]

I think corrupt as they come, is a politician that recieves aid money for his straving population, yet banks it in a swiss bank account, as many of the African leaders have done.

I personally thought mr.t feathered his nest a little too much, but also the people of Thailand advanced economically. Unfortunately the hisos felt they weren't getting enough of the pie.

My thoughts exactly.

"Is the current military junta less corrupt than Thaskin ?

Yes, definitely."

However, this I disagree with quite strongly, corruption involves more just money! Manipulation, dishonesty and deception. The 2007 New Years bombers have still not been identified (publicly anyway). The aftermath of the election will be very interesting; another coup perhaps?

[LinkPopularity]

In what way did Mr. Taksin make money for the country?

Pls dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to be ironic or silly here.

I would really like to know that.

if you don't want to be silly, don't ask stupid questions !

[SpacemanSpliff]

In what way did Mr. Taksin make money for the country? Pls dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to be ironic or silly here. I would really like to know that.

if you don't want to be silly, don't ask stupid questions !

There is no such thing as a stupid question, and especially not this one.

How we know the right figure how much each govt. corrupt?

Another excellent question that I hope will make some people pause and think.

So rather than give my opinion, let me just quote from Transparency International, a Berlin based organization that researches, surveys ranks countries in yearly reports.

"Some of the countries that have a significantly worse rating since 2006 include Austria, Bahrain, Belize, Bhutan, Jordan, Laos, Macao, Malta, Mauritius, Oman, Papua New Guinea, and Thailand.

In 2005, Thailand ranked 59 in the world (1 being best). Currently in the 2007 index after the military takeover, Thailand plummeted to 84, in between a bunch of African countries. By comparison, Singapore is at number 4 (FOUR!) in teh world, Malaysia at 43.

Source: www.transparency.org

When you look at rankings about democracy, press freedom and the like you see a similar free-fall.

Again, I would have thought this a no-brainer.. I never knew I'd find such a hot-bed of junta-apologists here! As everyone here presumably is Western educated I think this really is quite, well, remarkable. I think the 'why' people here feel this way is perhaps best left for another discussion, but I do have my thoughts.

[Amir]

In what way did Mr. Taksin make money for the country? Pls dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to be ironic or silly here. I would really like to know that.

When Thaksin came to power the country was an economic basket case; the asian bubble had burst, Thailand was deep, deep in debt and the government of the day seemed inert to do anything about it.

Couple years later and:

* IMF debt is GONE!

* Construction is booming again; The 'skeleton buildings' resulting from the crisis are being completed or replaced.

* SME's (Small and Medium Sized Enterprises) were made a focual point with many programs; this is really a main strength of asian economies and Thaksin recognized this

* Grass-roots projects (OTOP) to bring local produce and crafts to a national and international market; another key strength that was just lost before has been made to work for those rural people as well as generate money for Thailand.

* Liberalize the airline industry.. It used to be only Thai airways could fly most routes.. This is now gone, and airfares have plummeted, meaning more people can fly, also helping the economy. (And this is also where one of the Thaksin-haters seem to call him corrupt because he also owned Thai Air Asia at the time.. To lower middle class people however: Who the $*#(&$# cares if you can fly to Chiang Mai or Had Yai for around a 1000 baht! Thai Airways was completely inert also.. a fat pig monopolist.. Thaksin shook things up alright, and even Thai Airways is doing sensible things these days.

* Calling long distance used to cost 18 baht a minute!! Remember those days!

* MANY programmes to develop the IT / IS industry. A potential strength.

* Agricultural loans, greatly stimulating agriculture, Thailand's main industry.

* Extend BOI ; just about anyone with a good idea can get BOI privileges.

* Strike a severe blow to the illegal gambling sub-economy by introducing a lottery plan for which there existed clear demand. (Betting on any last number or last 2 - 3 numbers). The military junta has cancelled this programme again and as a result illegal gambling is back.

* Drugs (Ya Ba / Meth) were in danger of paralizing certain areas. Thaksin's widely supported draconian drug war surprised friend and foe in that it actually WORKED.. Not sure if you were around in the bars before Thaksin, but everyone was high on meth. Since the drug crackdown prices got so high that it effectively reduced the problem considerably.

* In general a push away from what he called 'social ills' where teenagers weren't studying or working but partying already at a young age, abuse alcohol and drugs, etc. This was the aim of the social order programme... which in truth is THE thing why most people on this site don't like Thaksin: They prefer unlimited booze and easy girls high on meth. Well I'm sure that was nice for them, but it did little for the Thai economy with so many people non-contributing to the economy.

There's probably loads and loads more.. Not sure if there's people on this site with the knowledge to add to it, but I think the above is a good start.

He also created "easy" credit terms and credit cards for Thais that gave them more buying power (or lets say they have the feeling to have more buying power). Unfortunately, the limit is too far so that people have now 5 credit cards to pay back the 1st credit card they have. You can see that they all have those fancy cars and big houses, due to easy credit terms but everything belongs to the bank... Anyway, makes the Thai enjoy their lifes.

[Travel2003]

In what way did Mr. Taksin make money for the country?

Pls dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to be ironic or silly here.

I would really like to know that.

if you don't want to be silly, don't ask stupid questions !

Hmm, seems like my stupid question got some interesting replies.

For the future, if I feel one of my questions might be stupid, I will make sure I run them by you first, so you can endorse them.

That is, if you are not too busy in your "think tank" then.

Feels quite liberating having someone like you around to help us less intelligent ones.

[chevykanteve]

The scale to measure Toxin's corruption is streached to the maximum and unfortunately the pointer broke

So, the corruption is beyond any magnitude known

As reported yesterday, his government cost the country to lost some 180 billion baht?? What about those unseen and untraceable?

Just look at the reported wealth of his whole family before he took office and after he was kicked out after the coup. And that is what was reported. What about those that was not in his / or other family name? Those that was transfered and safely hidden overseas etc

No other former or future government can match that amount of money 'stolen' from Thailand!

Better to have the generals appointed as heads of multiple state enterprises, deriving multiple salaries as a result? And of course the slush funds??

[sriracha john]

Was Thaskin More Corrupt Than Previous Governments?

Thailand’s Auditor-General Khunying Jaruwan stated that corruption of every sort exists at unprecedented levels under the present administration.

- The Nation / Nov 14, 2004

(said whilst Thaksin was the "present administration" and before he really took it up several notches to even higher "unprecedented" levels).

[LinkPopularity]

In what way did Mr. Taksin make money for the country?

Pls dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to be ironic or silly here.

I would really like to know that.

if you don't want to be silly, don't ask stupid questions !

Hmm, seems like my stupid question got some interesting replies.

For the future, if I feel one of my questions might be stupid, I will make sure I run them by you first, so you can endorse them.

That is, if you are not too busy in your "think tank" then.

Feels quite liberating having someone like you around to help us less intelligent ones.

well, your statement that thaksin must be a bad guy, as he's on many NGO's blacklist, says a lot about you. Personally, I would see it as an honour to be on the blacklist of anarchistic organization, who are undermining socitey and don't contribute, despite what they want you to believe; those NGO's are soo much more corrupt, then any government organization ever !

the main reason why I reacted like that, is because you did judge Thaksin earlier on, while you obviously don't have a clue ...

to me, the whole anti-Thaksin gang belongs in the same list as terrorists; extreme-left is the main problem is these times, nothing or nobody else !

[chevykanteve]

In what way did Mr. Taksin make money for the country?

Pls dont misunderstand me, I am not trying to be ironic or silly here.

I would really like to know that.

if you don't want to be silly, don't ask stupid questions !

Kind of a trollish response, isn't it? The word immature also comes to mind.

[stateman]

Past practice - case-by-case basis.

Things progressed to a wholesale level. Across the board. 30%.

Is this enough difference?!

[dominique355]

The Military claimed to have mounted the Coup because Taksin was so corrupt. (Maybe if he had paid taxes on the Shin Corp. deal, he would have gotten away) I would have thought that these Generals had all the evidence and proof that Taksin is indeed corrupt at hand; after all, that's why they made the coup.

But ... but ... now, more than a year later, we still have not seen one single evidence, not to mention a conviction for his corruption.

Seems to me the coup had other reasons:

- The military wanted a bigger slice of the cake, hence 50% increase of the military budget. (They actually want to buy a submarine!

- They want to have their influence carved in stone, hence the Internal Security Act.

Even the government under the Military had its corruption cases, a few ministers had to step down, and even the Prime Minister was unable (or unwilling) to explain how he got that house in the middle of a National Park.

Corruption is a Gentleman's delict here, and as long as people view it this way, it will stay. If people actually vote for a guy like Samak, how will they ever learn?

[rixalex]

the main reason why I reacted like that, is because you did judge Thaksin earlier on, while you obviously don't have a clue ...

Who are you to say he doesn't have a clue? What you mean is you don't agree with him, just like i don't agree with you.